Classe Sigma Series - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 400 Old 01-31-2015, 05:51 PM
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I guess I'm not understanding how you want to configure this. Seems you'd still have the CA-5100 powering up regardless of whether you use the CANBUS connection from the Sigma SSP or a trigger out connection. If you connect so the processor powers up your CA-5100, your HA1 and your B&O speakers, they're all going to go on when you turn on the processor.
My fault for being unclear.

I live in a loft. Upstairs I have my B&O 8000s and downstairs I my HT/stereo system. The 5100 powers the speakers downstairs, and the 8000s are powered on their own, but rigged up to a trigger cable and plugged into my SSP 600. I have one of the function buttons on the SSP 600 dedicated to toggle the trigger for the 8000s so anytime I want audio upstairs I just toggle the trigger which turns the speakers upstairs on.

Make sense?

I this case there are times I want just the speakers upstairs on, so I dont need the Classe 5100 powered.
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post #62 of 400 Old 01-31-2015, 10:20 PM
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My fault for being unclear.

I live in a loft. Upstairs I have my B&O 8000s and downstairs I my HT/stereo system. The 5100 powers the speakers downstairs, and the 8000s are powered on their own, but rigged up to a trigger cable and plugged into my SSP 600. I have one of the function buttons on the SSP 600 dedicated to toggle the trigger for the 8000s so anytime I want audio upstairs I just toggle the trigger which turns the speakers upstairs on.

Make sense?

I this case there are times I want just the speakers upstairs on, so I dont need the Classe 5100 powered.
OK. Now I get it. And you're right, the Sigma SSP won't be able to let you do that. It's a shame Classe decided to skip the trigger on the Sigma SSP. I sent an email to Classe about it, and they responded that 12v triggers were too susceptible to voltage fluctuations, but that doesn't explain why they included them on the AMP5 (and I would guess the AMP2 as well).
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post #63 of 400 Old 02-01-2015, 12:11 AM
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OK. Now I get it. And you're right, the Sigma SSP won't be able to let you do that. It's a shame Classe decided to skip the trigger on the Sigma SSP. I sent an email to Classe about it, and they responded that 12v triggers were too susceptible to voltage fluctuations, but that doesn't explain why they included them on the AMP5 (and I would guess the AMP2 as well).
what exactly does that mean "too susceptible to voltage fluctuations"? Been in this hobby for 15 years and have never experienced an adverse effect from a 12v trigger.
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post #64 of 400 Old 02-01-2015, 12:48 AM
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what exactly does that mean "too susceptible to voltage fluctuations"? Been in this hobby for 15 years and have never experienced an adverse effect from a 12v trigger.
To be honest, I'm not sure. The Sigma SSP and AMP5 are my first experience with separates. One of the salesman at my local audio shop told me that if the current coming into the outlet fluctuates then the trigger might not cause the switch between standby and on. The reply from Classe was that the triggers weren't reliable.
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post #65 of 400 Old 02-01-2015, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterSound View Post
To be honest, I'm not sure. The Sigma SSP and AMP5 are my first experience with separates. One of the salesman at my local audio shop told me that if the current coming into the outlet fluctuates then the trigger might not cause the switch between standby and on. The reply from Classe was that the triggers weren't reliable.
well i have owned classe gear for 6 years and in all that time I have never noticed a single issue with a trigger. Im calling a bit of BS on classe for saying this. Triggers are an industry standard and I have never heard of anyone having an issue.

very strange.
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post #66 of 400 Old 02-05-2015, 10:15 PM
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I just got the announcement for Music Matters at Definitive Audio in Seattle (http://www.definitive.com/mm10/mm10.html), and there will be a demonstration of the new Classe Sigma MONO amp. I haven't heard anything about them yet, but I assume they will also be Class D circuitry.
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post #67 of 400 Old 02-07-2015, 04:33 AM
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Hi BetterSound,

Correct. The Sigma MONO amp is based on Classé's Class D technology.

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

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Originally Posted by BetterSound View Post
I just got the announcement for Music Matters at Definitive Audio in Seattle (http://www.definitive.com/mm10/mm10.html), and there will be a demonstration of the new Classe Sigma MONO amp. I haven't heard anything about them yet, but I assume they will also be Class D circuitry.
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post #68 of 400 Old 02-13-2015, 04:29 PM
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Correct. The Sigma MONO amp is based on Classé's Class D technology.

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America
Thanks Patrick. Looking forward to hearing them, though I'll most likely stick with my AMP5 to go with my SSP (which I'm thoroughly enjoying).
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post #69 of 400 Old 03-11-2015, 10:39 PM
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Was there any update or announcement on the sigma mono amp?
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post #70 of 400 Old 03-12-2015, 10:37 AM
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Hi Tank_PD,

No official announcement yet. Stay tuned.

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

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Was there any update or announcement on the sigma mono amp?
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post #71 of 400 Old 03-24-2015, 05:38 PM
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Any word on DTS-X or Dolby Atmos?

Just curious to see if and when both DTS-X and Dolby Atmos will be added. I understand that Classe has a good reputation in terms of upgrades to exisiting processors but it would great to hear something official
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post #72 of 400 Old 03-24-2015, 07:50 PM
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Just curious to see if and when both DTS-X and Dolby Atmos will be added. I understand that Classe has a good reputation in terms of upgrades to exisiting processors but it would great to hear something official
No timeline, but answers here:
http://www.audioholics.com/av-preamp...th-dave-nauber
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post #73 of 400 Old 03-26-2015, 06:42 AM
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Hi diononiz,

I can say with confidence that there probably will be no Dolby Atmos or DTS-X upgrades available in 2015. Once DSPs become available to smaller manufacturers (that would include Classé) then the process begins to design a new DSP board. I wish it were like dropping a new video card in a PC, but that isn't the case. We are excited about Atmos, and eagerly await a reasonable selection of Atmos titles, or the first DTS-X title.

Regards,

Patrick Butler
B&W Group North America



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Just curious to see if and when both DTS-X and Dolby Atmos will be added. I understand that Classe has a good reputation in terms of upgrades to exisiting processors but it would great to hear something official

Last edited by Patrick Butler; 03-28-2015 at 02:54 PM.
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post #74 of 400 Old 04-24-2015, 10:55 PM
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Did anyone had the chance to audit the new sigma series ssp already?

Would be nice to read some reviews as I got my eyes on this unit as well.
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post #75 of 400 Old 04-25-2015, 01:52 AM
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Did anyone had the chance to audit the new sigma series ssp already?

Would be nice to read some reviews as I got my eyes on this unit as well.
I have yet to see any "professional" reviews. My own impressions as a Sigma SSP owner can be found here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post29979537

and here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post30945730
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post #76 of 400 Old 04-25-2015, 02:51 AM
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I have yet to see any "professional" reviews. My own impressions as a Sigma SSP owner can be found here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post29979537

and here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post30945730

Thanks a lot! Didn´t spot your review earlier for whatever reason...Sometimes having such a huge forum makes finding the relevant information a mess.


Now that you had the chance to listen to the sigma for a couple more weeks and have everything "burned in" are you still happy with the sound?


How is the overall build quality (have no experience with Classe yet) and how stable runs the firmware/software?


I am still looking for a decent upgrade to my current Pre Pro which is 10 years old, doesnt support HDMI, DTS HD and all the fancy stuff but still sounds better than the modern Pre Pros I have tested (Yamaha, Marantz etc.). On the Marantz and Yamaha stereo sounded horrible "flat"...with my current Pre Pro the speakers completely disappear while the sound sticks to the speakers with the Marantz/Yamaha.


Really looking for a unit which is well build (plastic even on the Marantz AV 8802 puts me off), sounds great in stereo and will last me a while (will only run 5.1.)
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post #77 of 400 Old 04-26-2015, 12:12 AM
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Now that you had the chance to listen to the sigma for a couple more weeks and have everything "burned in" are you still happy with the sound?
I'm sure mkbruce will respond, but I will as well. I've had my Sigma SSP for a couple months now (as well as the Sigma AMP5) and couldn't be happier. I started out with 2 channel using a Classe CAP-2100 integrated driving my B&W 805Diamonds, but really wanted to expand into surround sound for movies. It was important that I not sacrifice 2 channel music, and I pretty quickly ruled out all of the surround processors and receivers I looked at (including Arcam, NAD and Marantz). I first heard an early Sigma SSP pre-release model at a Music Matters event in Seattle in Feb, 2014 and was eagerly waiting its final release. My local dealer finally got the Sigma in late November of 2014. As I mentioned earlier in this thread I brought in my CAP-2100 for a direct comparison with the Sigma for 2 channel, and the Sigma pretty easily won me over.

(As an aside, my dealer also got in the new NAD Masters series pre-pro, but I'm averse to an all digital signal path. I feel that digital is still evolving too much to lock in that firmly. As an example, I only just read about the new MQA technology from Meridian last week. But if your processor converts everything into a PWM stream anyway you can't really adopt a new technology. I know NAD has their modular construction, but it seems to take them a long time to come out with upgrade modules)

About 2 weeks ago I decided to take the plunge and get back into vinyl - after having sold off my collection back in the 90s. I ordered the phono stage for the Sigma SSP as well as a Rega RP6 turntable, and I'm in audio bliss the last couple of weeks as I slowly build up my collection. I'm still a novice as far as turntables, cartridges and phono stages go, but I feel that Classe has done an awesome job with their phono card (my dealer told me it's the same card as the one for the CP-800). To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure I'd say that vinyl sounds better than digital through the Sigma, but there certainly is something about the ritual of putting the record on the 'table and lowering the needle.

One issue I was having is that the Sigma was not outputting a signal to my subwoofer in analog mode (my 805s need a little help on the bottom end). Took my salesman about a week to track down the issue with Classe, and the latest firmware beta fixed the problem. I also installed the firmware update that came out earlier, and I've had no stability issues at all.

Oh, and mkbruce - the ios app does take a while to pick up the input changes. What I discovered is you have to completely shut down the processor and power it back up for the app to see the changes. Just putting it in standby won't do it.
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post #78 of 400 Old 04-26-2015, 12:33 AM
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I'm sure mkbruce will respond, but I will as well. I've had my Sigma SSP for a couple months now (as well as the Sigma AMP5) and couldn't be happier. I started out with 2 channel using a Classe CAP-2100 integrated driving my B&W 805Diamonds, but really wanted to expand into surround sound for movies. It was important that I not sacrifice 2 channel music, and I pretty quickly ruled out all of the surround processors and receivers I looked at (including Arcam, NAD and Marantz). I first heard an early Sigma SSP pre-release model at a Music Matters event in Seattle in Feb, 2014 and was eagerly waiting its final release. My local dealer finally got the Sigma in late November of 2014. As I mentioned earlier in this thread I brought in my CAP-2100 for a direct comparison with the Sigma for 2 channel, and the Sigma pretty easily won me over.

(As an aside, my dealer also got in the new NAD Masters series pre-pro, but I'm averse to an all digital signal path. I feel that digital is still evolving too much to lock in that firmly. As an example, I only just read about the new MQA technology from Meridian last week. But if your processor converts everything into a PWM stream anyway you can't really adopt a new technology. I know NAD has their modular construction, but it seems to take them a long time to come out with upgrade modules)

About 2 weeks ago I decided to take the plunge and get back into vinyl - after having sold off my collection back in the 90s. I ordered the phono stage for the Sigma SSP as well as a Rega RP6 turntable, and I'm in audio bliss the last couple of weeks as I slowly build up my collection. I'm still a novice as far as turntables, cartridges and phono stages go, but I feel that Classe has done an awesome job with their phono card (my dealer told me it's the same card as the one for the CP-800). To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure I'd say that vinyl sounds better than digital through the Sigma, but there certainly is something about the ritual of putting the record on the 'table and lowering the needle.

One issue I was having is that the Sigma was not outputting a signal to my subwoofer in analog mode (my 805s need a little help on the bottom end). Took my salesman about a week to track down the issue with Classe, and the latest firmware beta fixed the problem. I also installed the firmware update that came out earlier, and I've had no stability issues at all.

Oh, and mkbruce - the ios app does take a while to pick up the input changes. What I discovered is you have to completely shut down the processor and power it back up for the app to see the changes. Just putting it in standby won't do it.
Thanks a lot for your response.

Sounds like you found the perfect PrePro already!

This might be a silly question, but the Sigma is flagged as 7.1, but when checking the pictures of the back of the unit on the classe website it seems like there are coax outs for front left/right, center, sub and 2 back surrounds?

At least it looks that way from the labels on the backside, but I assume Coax 1 and 2 can be configured in a way that you get full 7 channels?

Cheers!
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post #79 of 400 Old 04-26-2015, 12:42 AM
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Sounds like you found the perfect PrePro already!
I certainly think so! Now my only problem is I don't have a convenient excuse to audition more gear!

Quote:
This might be a silly question, but the Sigma is flagged as 7.1, but when checking the pictures of the back of the unit on the classe website it seems like there are coax outs for front left/right, center, sub and 2 back surrounds?
You can get a clearer picture by downloading the manual from the Classe site and paging down to the back panel layout diagram. There are 8 coaxial outputs (plus 2 balanced for the front left/right. You can use both balanced and coax for those, but Classe warns that the signal will be compromised). The final 2 are aux, and you can configure how to use them (rear, multizone, or line out). I only have room for a 5.1 setup anyway, so I'm planning on configuring the aux out as volume fixed line out to an ADC to create digital rips from my vinyl purchases for casual listening and when I'm mobile.
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post #80 of 400 Old 04-26-2015, 09:46 AM
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CA-D200 vs Sigma AMP2

Are these effectively the same amplifier in different cases? Spec looks virtually identical.


Is one better sounding than the other and are the prices similar?


Thanks


Peter
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post #81 of 400 Old 04-27-2015, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REM Germany View Post
Thanks a lot! Didn´t spot your review earlier for whatever reason...Sometimes having such a huge forum makes finding the relevant information a mess.


Now that you had the chance to listen to the sigma for a couple more weeks and have everything "burned in" are you still happy with the sound?


How is the overall build quality (have no experience with Classe yet) and how stable runs the firmware/software?
I got my SSP in December 2014 and haven't observed any change in sound quality (good or bad) over the past four months. Still sounds great.

Classe is an excellent company that stands behind their product. My first Classe product was an SSP-25 pre/pro (which I stall have and use). When it developed a humming noise on the L/R unbalanced preamp outputs, I sent it to Classe for repair. The technician called me from the repair shop while working on the unit to make sure he had correctly reproduced the issue I was experiencing - that's customer service!

The first firmware upgrade fixed the issues I had (noted in one of the earlier threads), so it's been all good since then. There is a minor annoyance with calibration tones in 7.1 modes where the surrounds (or rears, can't quite remember) don't generate a test tone, but that's easily worked around by using a test bluray instead.

My overall summary of the Sigma is that it is a fantastic stereo preamp (I"m using all balanced analog signal path in bypass mode here) with excellent surround capabilities. Stereo is every bit as good as the SSP-75 and better than the SSP-800. Surround is harder to compare, but the capabilities of the Sigma gave me an excuse to hunt down a couple more 1998 vintage Mirage OM-R2's, reconfigure the CAV-75's amp channels, and get my Sunfire TrueSub repaired, all allowing me to go from a very good 5.0 system to an excellent 7.1 setup - well worth it.
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post #82 of 400 Old 04-27-2015, 10:23 AM
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Thanks all for the feedback, really looking forward to try the Sigma out.

Seems like it currently comes down to either the Sigma or the Primare SP 33 for me, as both are supposed to sound awesome in stereo. I am still convinced that a pre pro which can handle stereo will be able to handle HT as well and Denon/Marantz never really convinced me in stereo.

Only drawback with the Sigma is that it only has 2 XLR outputs, while the Primare has XLR for every channel. As I am using active speakers it would be a nice thing to have.

Sound and build quality was outstanding as well when I had the chance to check the predecessor of the sp 33 out. However there were some annoying bugs which Primare didnt manage to fix.

Now its just a matter of finding a Sigma dealer over here who is willing to let my try it at home.
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post #83 of 400 Old 05-01-2015, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
Are these effectively the same amplifier in different cases? Spec looks virtually identical.
"According to Classé, the amplifier models are derived from their breakthrough Delta series CA-D200" (http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...-sigma-series/)

I don't know to what extent they differ. I will say that I have no complaints about the Amp5.
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post #84 of 400 Old 05-01-2015, 01:44 PM
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The CA-D200 and AMP2 are identical amplifiers, differing only in cosmetics.

The AMP5 uses the same SMPS as the CA-D200 (and CP-800 for that matter), with additional output devices and attendant components.

Regards,

Patrick Butler
B&W Group North America


Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterSound View Post
"According to Classé, the amplifier models are derived from their breakthrough Delta series CA-D200" (http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...-sigma-series/)

I don't know to what extent they differ. I will say that I have no complaints about the Amp5.
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post #85 of 400 Old 05-02-2015, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by REM Germany View Post
Did anyone had the chance to audit the new sigma series ssp already?

Would be nice to read some reviews as I got my eyes on this unit as well.


Check out the current issue of Stereophile. Kal Rubinson reviews the Sigma line in his column 'Music in the Round'.
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post #86 of 400 Old 05-02-2015, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Check out the current issue of Stereophile. Kal Rubinson reviews the Sigma line in his column 'Music in the Round'.
Link!
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post #87 of 400 Old 05-02-2015, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildtangent View Post
Check out the current issue of Stereophile. Kal Rubinson reviews the Sigma line in his column 'Music in the Round'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post
Link!
Here:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-72

I'm very tempted to get a Sigma. Not sure sure if I should wait for 4K or what Anthem may have later this year.
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post #88 of 400 Old 05-02-2015, 11:18 PM
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Check out the current issue of Stereophile. Kal Rubinson reviews the Sigma line in his column 'Music in the Round'.
Thanks a lot for the link. Unfortunately not a lot of news on the 5.1 performance with movies.

I should get my SSP for testing in about a week...will most likely come down to the NAD M17 or the Sigma SSP.

The only problem I have with the SSP is that it doesnt have XLR outputs for each channel. I run active speakers and in case I ever stock up to 7.1 I would require some pretty long cables, so XLR would be nice.
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post #89 of 400 Old 05-03-2015, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Butler View Post
The CA-D200 and AMP2 are identical amplifiers, differing only in cosmetics.

The AMP5 uses the same SMPS as the CA-D200 (and CP-800 for that matter), with additional output devices and attendant components.

Regards,

Patrick Butler
B&W Group North America
Thanks for that Patrick. I was mighty impressed with the CP-800 when I home tested it a couple of years ago and before the network board was included. However it was far more costly than I was prepared to pay for, primarily because it included many features (eg analogue and phono inputs) that I don't need.


Is there a Sigma product planned that will offer identical digital performance (including network capability) but without the frills and more costly casework of the CP-800?


Peter
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post #90 of 400 Old 05-03-2015, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post
Here:http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-72 I'm very tempted to get a Sigma. Not sure sure if I should wait for 4K or what Anthem may have later this year.
Thank you.

For me I use the SSP-800 mostly for movies and now that I have experienced ATMOS I love it. So the next processor will need to have ATMOS, DTS:X and AURO 3D as well as being able to have HDMi 2.0a and be HDCP 2.2 for 4K compliant so I will wait for Classe's next generation 2016 maybe!

I am curious about their digital amps when I need to replace my amps hopefully never, I will probably go that route. More energy efficient and less weight not to mention the cost!
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