The "Official" 2014 Denon Atmos+XT32 Model Thread (X4100/X5200/X7200) - Page 370 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11071 of 11806 Old 12-28-2016, 08:32 AM
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question on amp-assign

Hi all,
I've been enjoying my x4100 in a 5.2.4 configuration for over a year now, and whilst going through the manual the other day, I read that "You can connect speakers for up to 13-channels for MAIN ZONE by using an external power amplifier. When you connect speakers for 10 or more channels, the output speakers automatically switch according to the input signal and sound mode."

I already have an external amp to power a pair of my ceiling speakers. I was wondering if I could just add a couple of rear surround speakers and if the receiver would either use 5.2.4 for atmos encoded media, and 7.2 (or will it be 7.2.2?) for non-atmos content. Essentially, leave everything as is and just add rear surrounds and have the media encoding determine the speakers to be used.

Has anyone tried this? I'd love to hear your experiences.

Happy Holidays.

Thanks,
Saabh
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post #11072 of 11806 Old 12-28-2016, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JKSaabh View Post
Hi all,
I've been enjoying my x4100 in a 5.2.4 configuration for over a year now, and whilst going through the manual the other day, I read that "You can connect speakers for up to 13-channels for MAIN ZONE by using an external power amplifier. When you connect speakers for 10 or more channels, the output speakers automatically switch according to the input signal and sound mode."

I already have an external amp to power a pair of my ceiling speakers. I was wondering if I could just add a couple of rear surround speakers and if the receiver would either use 5.2.4 for atmos encoded media, and 7.2 (or will it be 7.2.2?) for non-atmos content. Essentially, leave everything as is and just add rear surrounds and have the media encoding determine the speakers to be used.

Has anyone tried this? I'd love to hear your experiences.

Happy Holidays.

Thanks,
Saabh
You can absolutely do that, with a few caveats. In fact, I consider the ability to connect up to 13 speakers (plus SW) in the main zone one of the outstanding features of the X4100/X5200 mid-level AVR's. If you include Zones 2 & 3, the AVR can selectively send a discrete audio signal to up to 18 speakers via internal and external amplification, although the Main Zone maxes out at 9.1 at any given time (or 11.1 on the X5200).

Assuming you have already set up your X4100 using the 9.1ch Amp Assign Mode (p. 219 ff. of the owner's manual) w/4 Height Speakers and Top Rear (TR) Pre-out, you can then connect another pair of speakers to the Surround Back (SB) speaker posts of the AVR and off you go. (N.B.: Whenever you connect additional speakers to the mix you must rerun Audyssey MultEQ calibration in order to have Audyssey room correction recognize them.) Depending on the source signal you can then determine which speakers will be activated via the Sound Mode buttons on the remote.

One of the principal caveats is mentioned on p. 222 of the manual: If you want to have access to 9.1 (5.1 + SB + FW) in DTS Neo:X or Audyssey DSX sound mode, then you must externally power at least one more pair of speakers in addition to the TR.

As to your question regarding nomenclature, non-immersive audio is designated by separately counting the surround and LFE channels or speakers. So, for example, non-Atmos DD would be 7.1 or 9.1, whereas the same setup in Atmos would be 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 (or 7.1.2) calling out the top-level channels separately from the listener-level.

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post #11073 of 11806 Old 12-29-2016, 12:55 PM
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bLUNDERING ONWARD . .

my TV . . it's not an input I can control As THERE IS NO BUTTON FOR IT, and it's not an input

i'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO TURN IT ON AND OFF, ETC. with the AVR remote. HOW?

and has anyone had success with a direct TV remote . .(i'll be looking for that "somewhere') but I can't be the first . .

TY

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post #11074 of 11806 Old 12-30-2016, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
bLUNDERING ONWARD . .

my TV . . it's not an input I can control As THERE IS NO BUTTON FOR IT, and it's not an input

i'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO TURN IT ON AND OFF, ETC. with the AVR remote. HOW?

and has anyone had success with a direct TV remote . .(i'll be looking for that "somewhere') but I can't be the first . .

TY
If you set HDMI-CEC (eg. Anynet+, VieraLink, BraviaSync, etc.) to ON on the TV and HDMI Control to ON on the AVR, this may allow the TV to come on when the AVR is powered on.
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post #11075 of 11806 Old 12-30-2016, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
bLUNDERING ONWARD . .

my TV . . it's not an input I can control As THERE IS NO BUTTON FOR IT, and it's not an input

i'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO TURN IT ON AND OFF, ETC. with the AVR remote. HOW?

and has anyone had success with a direct TV remote . .(i'll be looking for that "somewhere') but I can't be the first . .

TY
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
If you set HDMI-CEC (eg. Anynet+, VieraLink, BraviaSync, etc.) to ON on the TV and HDMI Control to ON on the AVR, this may allow the TV to come on when the AVR is powered on.
To expand somewhat, note JD's use of the phrase "may allow". It might not. Different companies implement Consumer Electronics Control in different ways, and too often they're incompatible.

You might want to consider getting a "smart remote" which can turn your A/V equipment on and off appropriately with a single button-press. Logitech's Harmony series is popular here.

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post #11076 of 11806 Old 12-30-2016, 10:51 AM
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TY for all the leads,
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post #11077 of 11806 Old 12-30-2016, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The only one I'm aware of is to gain access to additional AUX settings:

To gain access to Aux 3 – Aux 7, press the BACK and Down Arrow buttons on the front panel while powering on the 4520CI.
I don't follow. I have the X7200WA not the 4520CI. What are the Aux 3-7 ? Aux what?

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post #11078 of 11806 Old 12-31-2016, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
What am I missing?

I want to control my Sony DMP-BDT220 BD using my x5200 remote. I have the codes from the manual. I have used them all following the seemingly simple 2 part instructions on page 261.
The 3 green lights flash twice after entering the codes.
however

after switching the avr to BD input , nothing . . . no power on/off or anything else

enlightenment, please.

TY
Umm, without trying to be a smart***, the DMP-BDT220 is a Panasonic product, not Sony. Are you sure you aren't looking up the wrong codes? Our X4100 remote controls our DMP-BDT500 just fine!

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post #11079 of 11806 Old 12-31-2016, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post
I don't follow. I have the X7200WA not the 4520CI. What are the Aux 3-7 ? Aux what?
Both models have (2) AUX source names available for use out of the box: AUX1 and AUX2 (see below)




By doing the procedure I previously listed, on both of those models you can add (5) more source labels: AUX 3-7.
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post #11080 of 11806 Old 12-31-2016, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Both models have (2) AUX source names available for use out of the box: AUX1 and AUX2 (see below)




By doing the procedure I previously listed, on both of those models you can add (5) more source labels: AUX 3-7.
Ahhh got it. Thanks. Cool to know!

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post #11081 of 11806 Old 01-04-2017, 01:15 PM
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This has become a very LONG thread, so I hope my questions are not already listed somewhere within.

Some background:
I just migrated from a 4311CI to the X4100.
Also added an external amplifier to allow me to run 4 overhead speakers for Atmos (I am now at 5.3.4).

My question(s):
1) Are there any front panel indications to indicate when Atmos material is present and playing?
2) I assume it is NOT necessary to manually select an Atmos setting?
3) How about the Atmos up-mixer (for non-Atmos material), is the up-mixer a select-able feature, or ...?

Thanks in Advance

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post #11082 of 11806 Old 01-04-2017, 01:57 PM
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The front panel will indicate Atmos. It's also helpful if you switch the front panel channel display from the default "output" to "input", because your output config will always be the same with Atmos.

Atmos decoding is automatic, but you have to make sure that Dolby Surround (the upmixer) is selected for non-Atmos content. Press the green button on the remote to check this. This is a setting the Denon remembers separately for each input and each audio codec.
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post #11083 of 11806 Old 01-04-2017, 02:53 PM
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Amp Assign Question

Hello,

I just got my Atmos speakers up this weekend but when I went into amp assign it did not work as expected.

I have a X7200WA. Before Atmos I configured a full 7.2 and Zone 2 and 3. For the FL/C/FR/SL/SR/SBL/SBR I use a 7 channel external amp. I have the amp assign set to Custom for the speakers using the internal amps. Front is set to Zone 3, Surround Back is set to Zone 2. Everything worked great.

I assumed when I added the Atmos speakers that I would just set Height 2 to Top Rear and that Top Front would default to the Height 1 terminals. It didn't. The Height 2 terminals are active when I assign them to either TF or TR but with either setting the Heights 1 terminals are never active.

I am sure I am missing something obvious but can any one offer a suggestion?

Thanks!
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post #11084 of 11806 Old 01-04-2017, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ahall44 View Post
Hello,

I just got my Atmos speakers up this weekend but when I went into amp assign it did not work as expected.

I have a X7200WA. Before Atmos I configured a full 7.2 and Zone 2 and 3. For the FL/C/FR/SL/SR/SBL/SBR I use a 7 channel external amp. I have the amp assign set to Custom for the speakers using the internal amps. Front is set to Zone 3, Surround Back is set to Zone 2. Everything worked great.

I assumed when I added the Atmos speakers that I would just set Height 2 to Top Rear and that Top Front would default to the Height 1 terminals. It didn't. The Height 2 terminals are active when I assign them to either TF or TR but with either setting the Heights 1 terminals are never active.

I am sure I am missing something obvious but can any one offer a suggestion?

Thanks!
When I added new top speakers I just re-ran Setup and followed the instructions - it worked fine (same model AV receiver)
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post #11085 of 11806 Old 01-04-2017, 03:29 PM
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When I added new top speakers I just re-ran Setup and followed the instructions - it worked fine (same model AV receiver)
When I reran the Audyssey Setup it would not send a tone to anything attached to the Height 1 terminals -- that is what I can't figure out. It would send a tone to whatever I had configured on Height 2 (Top Rear or Top Front) but never to Height 1.
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Originally Posted by ahall44 View Post
When I reran the Audyssey Setup it would not send a tone to anything attached to the Height 1 terminals -- that is what I can't figure out. It would send a tone to whatever I had configured on Height 2 (Top Rear or Top Front) but never to Height 1.
I din't mean re-run Audyssey to setup a new speaker configuration. Run Speaker Setup in Setup Assistant to change your speaker configuration/amp assignments (just follow instructions) and when that's done re-run Audyssey.
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post #11087 of 11806 Old 01-04-2017, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ahall44 View Post
When I reran the Audyssey Setup it would not send a tone to anything attached to the Height 1 terminals -- that is what I can't figure out. It would send a tone to whatever I had configured on Height 2 (Top Rear or Top Front) but never to Height 1.
Unfortunately, my suggestion is rather generic:

If you haven't already done so, I suggest you do a full microprocessor reset and redo your speaker/amp associations from scratch, including your new speakers in the configuration. My suspicion is that your amp reassignments are causing the receiver to be confused and you might have to reallocate which amp goes to which speaker.
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post #11088 of 11806 Old 01-05-2017, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ahall44 View Post
Hello,

I just got my Atmos speakers up this weekend but when I went into amp assign it did not work as expected.

I have a X7200WA. Before Atmos I configured a full 7.2 and Zone 2 and 3. For the FL/C/FR/SL/SR/SBL/SBR I use a 7 channel external amp. I have the amp assign set to Custom for the speakers using the internal amps. Front is set to Zone 3, Surround Back is set to Zone 2. Everything worked great.

I assumed when I added the Atmos speakers that I would just set Height 2 to Top Rear and that Top Front would default to the Height 1 terminals. It didn't. The Height 2 terminals are active when I assign them to either TF or TR but with either setting the Heights 1 terminals are never active.

I am sure I am missing something obvious but can any one offer a suggestion?

Thanks!

First off, there's no reason to reset the microprocessor.

There is a lot of good information provided in the first 5 posts of this thread, to include a chart I list at the bottom of post 2 which shows what is in effect when you use the "Custom" Amp Assign setting (only available on the X7200WA) which results in no active signal going to the Height 1 speaker posts, therefore you must externally power the Height 1 speakers.
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post #11089 of 11806 Old 01-05-2017, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
First off, there's no reason to reset the microprocessor.

There is a lot of good information provided in the first 5 posts of this thread, to include a chart I list at the bottom of post 2 which shows what is in effect when you use the "Custom" Amp Assign setting (only available on the X7200WA) which results in no active signal going to the Height 1 speaker posts, therefore you must externally power the Height 1 speakers.
I missed that when I reread it. Thank you JD (and all). I need to jump to the root question then. I remember, maybe incorrectly, that the 7200 could be configured to use the internal amps for Zone 2 & Zone 3 and Top Front & Top Rear while using external amplification for all of the main channels. Is that not a configuration that is supported?

Thanks!
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post #11090 of 11806 Old 01-05-2017, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ahall44 View Post
I missed that when I reread it. Thank you JD (and all). I need to jump to the root question then. I remember, maybe incorrectly, that the 7200 could be configured to use the internal amps for Zone 2 & Zone 3 and Top Front & Top Rear while using external amplification for all of the main channels. Is that not a configuration that is supported?

Thanks!
Correct .. not supported.
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post #11091 of 11806 Old 01-08-2017, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by scarabaeus View Post
The front panel will indicate Atmos. It's also helpful if you switch the front panel channel display from the default "output" to "input", because your output config will always be the same with Atmos.

Atmos decoding is automatic, but you have to make sure that Dolby Surround (the upmixer) is selected for non-Atmos content. Press the green button on the remote to check this. This is a setting the Denon remembers separately for each input and each audio codec.
Scarabaeus,

Thank you for these suggestions. Unfortunately I am still not getting any Atmos indication on my front panel. I am getting some output from the overheads, verified by touching the cones. However the actual audible result is unimpressive.

My test disc is the standard blu-ray of Scully (the package has the atmos label but I am beginning to wonder). I may have to try Mad-Max Fury Road. I have also tested by playing Scully from both my Sony CX960 changer and from a Panny Blu-ray player. I believe both are bit-streaming, (set for PCM).

Could easily be that I am overlooking something?

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post #11092 of 11806 Old 01-08-2017, 01:26 PM
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Try a different audio output setting on your blu disc player.
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post #11093 of 11806 Old 01-08-2017, 05:41 PM
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Try a different audio output setting on your blu disc player.
Thanks - I'll give that a try

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Scarabaeus,

I believe both are bit-streaming, (set for PCM).

Could easily be that I am overlooking something?
If your players are set for PCM, that is why it isn't working... PCM isn't bitstream....
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post #11095 of 11806 Old 01-09-2017, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post
Scarabaeus,

Thank you for these suggestions. Unfortunately I am still not getting any Atmos indication on my front panel. I am getting some output from the overheads, verified by touching the cones. However the actual audible result is unimpressive.

My test disc is the standard blu-ray of Scully (the package has the atmos label but I am beginning to wonder). I may have to try Mad-Max Fury Road. I have also tested by playing Scully from both my Sony CX960 changer and from a Panny Blu-ray player. I believe both are bit-streaming, (set for PCM).

Could easily be that I am overlooking something?
As already mentioned, PCM is not Bitstreaming. Converting the audio to PCM strips off the Atmos metadata.

Set "Digital Audio Output" to "Bitstream".

Also, be sure to set "BD-Video Secondary Audio" to Off. (Which is not the default. On forces PCM despite the Bitstream setting.)
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post #11096 of 11806 Old 01-09-2017, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post
This has become a very LONG thread, so I hope my questions are not already listed somewhere within.

Some background:
I just migrated from a 4311CI to the X4100.
Also added an external amplifier to allow me to run 4 overhead speakers for Atmos (I am now at 5.3.4).

My question(s):
1) Are there any front panel indications to indicate when Atmos material is present and playing?
2) I assume it is NOT necessary to manually select an Atmos setting?
3) How about the Atmos up-mixer (for non-Atmos material), is the up-mixer a select-able feature, or ...?

Thanks in Advance
1. Front panel display will read "Atmos" as well as when pressing the INFO button on the remote.
2. You may need to select it the first time using the MOVIE button on the remote, thereafter, not necessary.
3. Yes, again by selecting the MOVIE button on the remote, you can select "Dolby Surround" for 2CH audio and "DD + Dolby Surround" for DD 5.1/7.1 audio.
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post #11097 of 11806 Old 01-09-2017, 06:59 PM
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@jdsmoothie , @seldon Ball, @deano86

Thanks Gang - I appreciate all of your comments and suggestions. Traveling now, but will report back when I return home and revisit this challenge.

(side-note; the instructions to my Sony and Panasonic Blu-ray players are less than clear when it cones to bit-stream settings, at least I think I have the secondary audio disabled )

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post #11098 of 11806 Old 01-14-2017, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post
@jdsmoothie , @seldon Ball, @deano86

Thanks Gang - I appreciate all of your comments and suggestions. Traveling now, but will report back when I return home and revisit this challenge.

(side-note; the instructions to my Sony and Panasonic Blu-ray players are less than clear when it cones to bit-stream settings, at least I think I have the secondary audio disabled )
Despite everyone's suggestions; seems I still have a system (with the Denon X4100) that for some reason will simply not play ATMOS.

I have two BR players a Sony CX960 changer, and a Panny BDT220
I have double-checked both to make sure they are set for bit-streaming, and that the secondary audio is off.
I have even toggled those features to PCM and secondary on and tested, then set it back to bit-stream and secondary audio off, there was no change (with either setting)

So here is what seems really strange to me, and hopefully a clue: I monitored the Denon info graphic while loading both of these discs.
  • When the preview trailers were playing (both movies); the panel indicator for "SIGNAL" reads "Dolby Digital", the Dolby symbol is showing, and the input channel map showed all channels except the top channels (this seemed normal to me)
  • HOWEVER, when the main feature started >> the Denon "SIGNAL" indicator now displays "PCM", the Dolby symbol went away, and the input channel indicator went to FL/FR
WTH...? I hope this suggests I am overlooking something really simple or stupid, or .....
(PS > I also bought a new HDMI cable to make sure this was not an HDMI cable limitation)

Edit - I also made sure the firmware upgrades were the latest for all 3 units (the 4100, and both players)


Any additional thoughts or tests are appreciated

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Last edited by cuzed2; 01-14-2017 at 02:37 PM. Reason: Added addiitonal troubleshooting info
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post #11099 of 11806 Old 01-14-2017, 02:47 PM
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just noticed this.
i run the same Panny.
i've had no issues, even tho it actually came from the man cave where there is no ATMOS. (for shame).
So after just a plug and pray move to the main HT, a HDMI cable and power cord (and of course the correct codes for the remote)

never checked the settings but it did the dolby demo disk, right off.

i'll dig around, see what's up and how it got smarter than me . . .

ps-nice work on the subs
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post #11100 of 11806 Old 01-15-2017, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post
Despite everyone's suggestions; seems I still have a system (with the Denon X4100) that for some reason will simply not play ATMOS.

I have two BR players a Sony CX960 changer, and a Panny BDT220
I have double-checked both to make sure they are set for bit-streaming, and that the secondary audio is off.
I have even toggled those features to PCM and secondary on and tested, then set it back to bit-stream and secondary audio off, there was no change (with either setting)

So here is what seems really strange to me, and hopefully a clue: I monitored the Denon info graphic while loading both of these discs.
  • When the preview trailers were playing (both movies); the panel indicator for "SIGNAL" reads "Dolby Digital", the Dolby symbol is showing, and the input channel map showed all channels except the top channels (this seemed normal to me)
  • HOWEVER, when the main feature started >> the Denon "SIGNAL" indicator now displays "PCM", the Dolby symbol went away, and the input channel indicator went to FL/FR
WTH...? I hope this suggests I am overlooking something really simple or stupid, or .....
(PS > I also bought a new HDMI cable to make sure this was not an HDMI cable limitation)

Edit - I also made sure the firmware upgrades were the latest for all 3 units (the 4100, and both players)


Any additional thoughts or tests are appreciated
Try powering off all devices and unplugging their power cords for 10 minutes. Then plug all back in and power on in the following order: TV, pause 5 seconds, AVR, pause 5 seconds, then BDP.

If the issue still presents, reset the microprocessor on the AVR using steps provided in post 4 of this thread.
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