Emotiva XMC-1 Owners Only Thread - Page 222 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6631 of 7578 Old 03-16-2018, 10:47 AM
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Well that is encouraging.
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post #6632 of 7578 Old 03-16-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by markymiles View Post
Maybe in times gone by. These days lots of people are using receivers as Processors as the pre amp section is usually very similar if not identical to the processor equivalent. Why pay the extortionate price difference to get what, balanced outputs and perhaps being isolated from some theoretical noise from the amps ?? I'm certainly not paying twice the price for that privelege.
I use my XMC-1 with powered PA speakers (Electro-voice ELX115P's). I need balanced out for the long runs involved (up to 35 ft).
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post #6633 of 7578 Old 03-16-2018, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by dkersten View Post
At least the RMC-1 might be available by then, so maybe I will sell the XMC-1 and just buy the RMC-1...
I would strongly suggest waiting till the RMC-1 is released for a sufficient amount of time to see if there are any issues before selling your XMC-1. I have the XMC-1 as well and I'm very happy with it in a 5.2 system.

There's no way I'd sell my XMC-1 to "upgrade" unless the replacement was out in the wild for long enough to know it's bug free. I had considered the RMC-1 as I have a 40% discount card but other than Dirac Unison there isn't much reason to upgrade. Hopefully when Dirac Unison is available in home consumer products the XMC-1 will be upgradeable.

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post #6634 of 7578 Old 03-16-2018, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post
I would strongly suggest waiting till the RMC-1 is released for a sufficient amount of time to see if there are any issues before selling your XMC-1. I have the XMC-1 as well and I'm very happy with it in a 5.2 system.

There's no way I'd sell my XMC-1 to "upgrade" unless the replacement was out in the wild for long enough to know it's bug free.
From a company with a history of releasing buggy products long after the expected release date, I would say this is sound logic.

BUT, it is either buy what is available to run what I built, purchase a rather expensive temporary solution, or just sit on a completed 2 year project for a few months waiting on some other form of untested technology before using it at all. Not a lot of good choices there.
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post #6635 of 7578 Old 03-16-2018, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dkersten View Post
From a company with a history of releasing buggy products long after the expected release date, I would say this is sound logic.

BUT, it is either buy what is available to run what I built, purchase a rather expensive temporary solution, or just sit on a completed 2 year project for a few months waiting on some other form of untested technology before using it at all. Not a lot of good choices there.
I'm not up on the new audio formats (Atmos etc.). But if there is an affordable AVR that you can use as a prepro that will enable you to use your new system to it's fullest capacity then that might be the best choice till the RMC-1 is out and bug free.

The XMC-1 works quite well and sounds excellent in my system. But in all honesty I think of Emotiva's Dan Laufman as a carnival hawker and don't really pay much attention to his claims. When whatever he claims comes to market that's when I pay attention. Till then the term "vaporware" is quite appropriate IMO.

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post #6636 of 7578 Old 03-17-2018, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markymiles View Post
Maybe in times gone by. These days lots of people are using receivers as Processors as the pre amp section is usually very similar if not identical to the processor equivalent. Why pay the extortionate price difference to get what, balanced outputs and perhaps being isolated from some theoretical noise from the amps ?? I'm certainly not paying twice the price for that privelege.
People have for a long time used the preamp section of receivers as processors. There are a number of reasons, e.g. they need more power and are satisfied with the preamp or their system configuration changes to where the controls need to be in a different location than the amplification. Initially, buying a power amp only saves them money. These folks usually, at some point, replace the receiver with a separate prepro when codecs, channels, etc., advance past their receiver’s capability. This is common and a natural evolution of one’s system.

I don’t recall ever reading a post where someone felt resentful and that they were being extorted by the existence of preamps with balanced outputs when they themselves don’t happen to need balanced outputs. Also, I’d betcha that most if not all $2k prepros perform better than the preamp section of a $2k receiver.

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post #6637 of 7578 Old 03-17-2018, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by dkersten View Post
From a company with a history of releasing buggy products long after the expected release date, I would say this is sound logic.

BUT, it is either buy what is available to run what I built, purchase a rather expensive temporary solution, or just sit on a completed 2 year project for a few months waiting on some other form of untested technology before using it at all. Not a lot of good choices there.
Rarely have, for me personally, the planets aligned to where all of the technology I wanted was within my grasp .. or my budget.

I am delighted with my XMC-1 in my 7.2 system. I have no plans to adopt 4k, HDR or Atmos, but may still upgrade to the new HDMI board for resale purposes. I am comforted in knowing that the XMC-1 has an upgrade path. I do feel for those who need ... or think they need ... 4k, HDR and/or Atmos RIGHT NOW.

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post #6638 of 7578 Old 03-17-2018, 09:36 AM
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Looking at a picture of the back of the upcoming XMC-1,I see that they eliminated the multichannel unbalanced inputs.

So if I still want those I would have to get an older model and then install the new HDMI board to get what I want.

Right now I’m using the OPPO 205 multichannel outputs taking advantage of the Sabre dacs in the OPPO. So if I buy the new XMC-1 I will not have the option to choose either dac for multichannel , but will be locked into the dacs in the Emotiva.

I’m sure they are great but I’m not thrilled about loosing the option. I like the SQ from the OPPO.

Do I understand this correctly?

George
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post #6639 of 7578 Old 03-17-2018, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Acousticmoods View Post
Looking at a picture of the back of the upcoming XMC-1,I see that they eliminated the multichannel unbalanced inputs.

So if I still want those I would have to get an older model and then install the new HDMI board to get what I want.

Right now I’m using the OPPO 205 multichannel outputs taking advantage of the Sabre dacs in the OPPO. So if I buy the new XMC-1 I will not have the option to choose either dac for multichannel , but will be locked into the dacs in the Emotiva.

I’m sure they are great but I’m not thrilled about loosing the option. I like the SQ from the OPPO.

Do I understand this correctly?

George
That's too bad that the new XMC-1 will not have a 7.1 analog input. I'd guess that Emotiva's finding that there isn't that many that are still using the 7.1 analog input. That would be a good plan to buy the current XMC-1 (new or used) and then install the new HDMI board.

I recently connected the 5.1 analog output of my Oppo 105D to the XMC-1. I did a comparison between analog and HDMI with Dirac. I much preferred the SQ of HDMI with Dirac over analog.

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post #6640 of 7578 Old 03-17-2018, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post
That's too bad that the new XMC-1 will not have a 7.1 analog input. I'd guess that Emotiva's finding that there isn't that many that are still using the 7.1 analog input. That would be a good plan to buy the current XMC-1 (new or used) and then install the new HDMI board.

I recently connected the 5.1 analog output of my Oppo 105D to the XMC-1. I did a comparison between analog and HDMI with Dirac. I much preferred the SQ of HDMI with Dirac over analog.

Bill
So I’m not sure if I understood the picture correctly- looking at the manual of the old unit it appears that those might be outputs - so the multichannel analogue outputs are gone - not a problem for me because I’m using the emo amp with unbalanced ins. But I don’t know what I’m looking at lol

Can anyone chime in and say what this will look like? Or did I miss it somewhere?

George
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post #6641 of 7578 Old 03-17-2018, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Acousticmoods View Post
So I’m not sure if I understood the picture correctly- looking at the manual of the old unit it appears that those might be outputs - so the multichannel analogue outputs are gone - not a problem for me because I’m using the emo amp with unbalanced ins. But I don’t know what I’m looking at lol

Can anyone chime in and say what this will look like? Or did I miss it somewhere?

George
I was just looking at the rear panel of the XMC-1 gen 3 from a thread over at the Emotiva Lounge. There are no RCA preouts or a 7.1 analog input. There are only XLR preouts as with the RMC-1. I know one can use XLR to RCA adaptors for those with amps that only have RCA inputs. But for an "audiophile" company one would think that they'd at least offer RCA preouts. I'm guessing the reason behind this is that the XMC-1 gen 3 and the RMC-1 will be fully balanced on all channels.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/a...download/29493

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post #6642 of 7578 Old 03-17-2018, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post
I was just looking at the rear panel of the XMC-1 gen 3 from a thread over at the Emotiva Lounge. There are no RCA preouts or a 7.1 analog input. There are only XLR preouts as with the RMC-1. I know one can use XLR to RCA adaptors for those with amps that only have RCA inputs. But for an "audiophile" company one would think that they'd at least offer RCA preouts. I'm guessing the reason behind this is that the XMC-1 gen 3 and the RMC-1 will be fully balanced on all channels.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/a...download/29493

Bill
So if those are pre outs does the signal processing get applied to those outs or not?

Thanks,

George
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post #6643 of 7578 Old 03-17-2018, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post
I was just looking at the rear panel of the XMC-1 gen 3 from a thread over at the Emotiva Lounge. There are no RCA preouts or a 7.1 analog input. There are only XLR preouts as with the RMC-1. I know one can use XLR to RCA adaptors for those with amps that only have RCA inputs. But for an "audiophile" company one would think that they'd at least offer RCA preouts. I'm guessing the reason behind this is that the XMC-1 gen 3 and the RMC-1 will be fully balanced on all channels.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/a...download/29493

Bill
That is correct. This have been discussed already at Emotiva Lounge and some people are complaining about the lack of unbalanced (RCA) pre outs, 7.1 analog inputs and record out on the XMC-1 Gen 3. The XMC-1 Gen 3 is fully balanced only LRC. It's the RMC-1 that is fully balanced all 16 channels.

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post #6644 of 7578 Old 03-18-2018, 08:23 AM
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That is correct. This have been discussed already at Emotiva Lounge and some people are complaining about the lack of unbalanced (RCA) pre outs, 7.1 analog inputs and record out on the XMC-1 Gen 3.
I understand wanting unbalanced pre-outs as I need one for one of my subs located next to my rack, but to want the 7.1 analog ins, how good .. and EXPENSIVE .. must an external multichannel DAC be to sound better than having the XMC-1 convert digital to analog and add Dirac? Also, and this might just be me being out of touch, what are people recording in the analog domain that makes them miss record outputs?

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post #6645 of 7578 Old 03-18-2018, 08:53 AM
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@pepar - agree 100%. I don't get it.... The DAC in the XMC-1 is great, and I don't see any need to run 7.1 audio RCA cables from a DVD player.

I had to do that many years ago with a pre-HDMI Denon AVR, and I don't miss it at all!
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post #6646 of 7578 Old 03-18-2018, 11:27 AM
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I understand wanting unbalanced pre-outs as I need one for one of my subs located next to my rack, but to want the 7.1 analog ins, how good .. and EXPENSIVE .. must an external multichannel DAC be to sound better than having the XMC-1 convert digital to analog and add Dirac? Also, and this might just be me being out of touch, what are people recording in the analog domain that makes them miss record outputs?

Jeff

I believe Emotiva will include balanced to unbalance cables.


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post #6647 of 7578 Old 03-18-2018, 11:29 AM
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Sure, any time codecs/formats ran “ahead” of the then current processors, those newest codecs were included in the players which handled decoding and outputted analog.

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post #6648 of 7578 Old 03-18-2018, 11:31 AM
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I believe Emotiva will include balanced to unbalance cables.


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“Cables?” Is that an acceptable way to unbalance a balanced circuit?

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post #6649 of 7578 Old 03-18-2018, 02:18 PM
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“Cables?” Is that an acceptable way to unbalance a balanced circuit?
Yes, it's acceptable but not convenient. What doesn't sounds right to me is that Emotiva BasX amp series only have unbalanced inputs then if you want to buy an A-800 to drive ATMOS speakers then you have to use balanced to unbalanced adapters to make it work. I guess Emotiva thinks that if you have enough disposable income to pay $3500 for an XMC-1 Gen 3 or $5000 fr a RMC-1 then you have enough $$$ to get into XPA series amps...
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post #6650 of 7578 Old 03-18-2018, 03:55 PM
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I guess Emotiva thinks that if you have enough disposable income to pay $3500 for an XMC-1 Gen 3 or $5000 fr a RMC-1 then you have enough $$$ to get into XPA series amps...
Yikes! It looks like Emotiva is taking themselves out of the "affordable" prepro business. The XMC-1 Gen 2 went from $1999 to $2500 which is affordable IMO. But at $3500 for the XMC-1 Gen 3 it's getting a little pricey IMO.

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post #6651 of 7578 Old 03-18-2018, 07:38 PM
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Yikes! It looks like Emotiva is taking themselves out of the "affordable" prepro business. The XMC-1 Gen 2 went from $1999 to $2500 which is affordable IMO. But at $3500 for the XMC-1 Gen 3 it's getting a little pricey IMO.

Bill
Wouldn’t you think that someone looking to purchase a new, equally equipped prepro would have a different frame of reference than someone who had purchased the original lesser expensive and lesser capable XMC-1? If you add the $998 upgrade cost to the original price you come close to the new $3500 price.

I will add though that I am delighted that I was able to buy mine barely used for $1700 (or $1600, I forget), so I could theoretically be all in for $2700/$2600 and have the newer features.

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post #6652 of 7578 Old 03-19-2018, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post
Yikes! It looks like Emotiva is taking themselves out of the "affordable" prepro business. The XMC-1 Gen 2 went from $1999 to $2500 which is affordable IMO. But at $3500 for the XMC-1 Gen 3 it's getting a little pricey IMO.

Bill
They have to account for all of the 40% off cards.

I'm waiting for the ZMC-15.1. 16ch analog input, XLR and RCA ins and outs!

I will sell my 40% off card for $2000 as it will save you $5000 on the new ZMC!
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post #6653 of 7578 Old 03-19-2018, 09:56 AM
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Wouldn’t you think that someone looking to purchase a new, equally equipped prepro would have a different frame of reference than someone who had purchased the original lesser expensive and lesser capable XMC-1? If you add the $998 upgrade cost to the original price you come close to the new $3500 price.

I will add though that I am delighted that I was able to buy mine barely used for $1700 (or $1600, I forget), so I could theoretically be all in for $2700/$2600 and have the newer features.

Jeff
Not sure. But I still think that the $3500 price point is pushing Emotiva into the "non-affordable" market segment IMO. If you look back at the release of the XMC-1 it was one of the few prepros that offered Dirac. It was what I considered affordable, now it's not IMO. Many now might chose a more affordable AVR and use it as a prepro or just as an AVR on it's own in their Atmos setup systems. With that avoiding all the Emotiva "drama" of when the XMC-1 Gen 3 and RMC-1 will possibly be released.

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They have to account for all of the 40% off cards.

I'm waiting for the ZMC-15.1. 16ch analog input, XLR and RCA ins and outs!

I will sell my 40% off card for $2000 as it will save you $5000 on the new ZMC!
I'm good as I have a 40% off card. No ZMC-15.1 for me as I'm happy with my "lowly" 5.2 system .

Bill

My SACD collection and HRAudio.net Library, getting larger as my wallet gets smaller ;-).

Emotiva XMC-1, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE (preamp), SX-500s, ST-500, ST-250, Marantz SA-10, Oppo UDP-205, UDP-203, BDP-105, BDP-103, BDP-93, BDP-83, Panasonic TC-P60GT50, Panamax 5100EX, Salk HT2-TLs, Salk 1801b center, Salk 1801TL (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #6654 of 7578 Old 03-19-2018, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post
Not sure. But I still think that the $3500 price point is pushing Emotiva into the "non-affordable" market segment IMO. If you look back at the release of the XMC-1 it was one of the few prepros that offered Dirac. It was what I considered affordable, now it's not IMO. Many now might chose a more affordable AVR and use it as a prepro or just as an AVR on it's own in their Atmos setup systems. With that avoiding all the Emotiva "drama" of when the XMC-1 Gen 3 and RMC-1 will possibly be released.


I'm good as I have a 40% off card. No ZMC-15.1 for me as I'm happy with my "lowly" 5.2 system .

Bill
With NAD offering the T 758 V3 equipped with Dirac Live (with up to 3 x Dirac configurations) , ATMOS 7.1.4, full 4K HDR (No Dolby Vision) for only $1299 things look very uphill for the Emotiva XMC-1 Gen 3 at $3500. Just my 2 cents.
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Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony 77A9G OLED |
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post #6655 of 7578 Old 03-19-2018, 10:20 AM
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I don't see any reason why they can't continue to offer the XMC-1 v2. Or release a BasX Processor w/Dirac.

I'm just more worried about them getting the RMC-1 to market right now. Once the RMC-1, then XMC-1 v3 and XMR hit the streets… there will be a flood of XMC-1 v2s on the second-hand market.
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post #6656 of 7578 Old 03-19-2018, 10:34 AM
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I don't see any reason why they can't continue to offer the XMC-1 v2. Or release a BasX Processor w/Dirac.

I'm just more worried about them getting the RMC-1 to market right now. Once the RMC-1, then XMC-1 v3 and XMR hit the streets… there will be a flood of XMC-1 v2s on the second-hand market.
As soon the XMC-1 Gen 3 is out for sale, I'll be getting one for my living room setup and move the XMC-1 Gen 2 + A-500 amp to my bedroom setup. I was almost ready to get a Marantz SR6012 or a Denon X4400 for my bedroom setup to replace a Marantz NR1606 just because I wanted volume bar/info and GUI at 4K then after doing some research just found out that there is no 4K/60Hz GUI/info overlay on any Marantz/Denon receiver or pre pro yet. At least the New V3 HDMI board will show GUI, volume bar and info with 4K/60Hz + HDR signal.

Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony 77A9G OLED |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |
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post #6657 of 7578 Old 03-19-2018, 10:38 AM
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I was almost ready to get a Marantz SR6012 or a Denon X4400 for my bedroom setup to replace a Marantz NR1606 just because I wanted volume bar/info and GUI at 4K then after doing some research just found out that there is no 4K/60Hz GUI/info overlay on any Marantz/Denon receiver or pre pro yet. At least the New V3 HDMI board will show GUI, volume bar and info with 4K/60Hz + HDR signal.
Really? I remember the OSD working with HDR10 on my X4300H and AV7702mkII (both sold now).
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post #6658 of 7578 Old 03-19-2018, 10:41 AM
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Really? I remember the OSD working with HDR10 on my X4300H and AV7702mkII (both sold now).
Only at 24Hz/30Hz, not 60Hz. As far I can tell, at this moment, the only processor/AVR in the market showing OSD at 60Hz is the XMC-1 with V3 HDMI board.

Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony 77A9G OLED |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |
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post #6659 of 7578 Old 03-19-2018, 10:44 AM
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Only at 24Hz/30Hz, not 60Hz. As far I can tell, at this moment, the only processor/AVR in the market showing OSD at 60Hz is the XMC-1 with V3 HDMI board.
Ok… that makes sense!
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post #6660 of 7578 Old 03-19-2018, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post
Not sure. But I still think that the $3500 price point is pushing Emotiva into the "non-affordable" market segment IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
With NAD offering the T 758 V3 equipped with Dirac Live (with up to 3 x Dirac configurations) , ATMOS 7.1.4, full 4K HDR (No Dolby Vision) for only $1299 things look very uphill for the Emotiva XMC-1 Gen 3 at $3500. Just my 2 cents.
If the NAD comes close in audio quality, the XMC-1 v3 is in big trouble. If the Emo is audibly superior, then the two units will not directly compete. My $.02.

"The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed." W. Gibson

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