Emotiva XMC-1 Owners Only Thread - Page 241 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7201 of 7489 Old 12-23-2018, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acousticmoods View Post
I’m looking to serve my xmc1 through Roon and the hdmi input (for multichannel hi res files). I can set my computer right next to the receiver and connect hdmi out to the receiver or I could leave the computer in the other room and use a cheap Ethernet to hdmi connector.
It is generally accepted that PC HDMIs cannot output DSD. Even software like JRiver converts DSD to PCM for HDMI output.

Though I’ve never used it or dug any further than noticing it today when previously replying to you, the XMC-1 rear panel USB makes the unit appear as a USB MCH DAC. JRiver et al can output DSD to a USB DAC. I have no idea why I never knew about that.

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post #7202 of 7489 Old 12-23-2018, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
It is generally accepted that PC HDMIs cannot output DSD. Even software like JRiver converts DSD to PCM for HDMI output.

Though I’ve never used it or dug any further than noticing it today when previously replying to you, the XMC-1 rear panel USB makes the unit appear as a USB MCH DAC. JRiver et al can output DSD to a USB DAC. I have no idea why I never knew about that.

Jeff
Not trying to start an argument here but if I understand the manual correctly the XMC-1 can accept M-CH DSD only thru HDMI.
If the MCH info is in DSD, the XMC-1 canNOT do any bass management or use Dirac or any other filters. You are limited to 'Direct' in DSD.
If the DSD MCH info is converted to PCM, then you can use bass management/Dirac, etc.

Here is the manual on what the USB DAC can accept:
Using The UsB stream Input (the Computer/DAC Input) The USB Stream Input on the XMC-1 is used to connect the USB digital audio output of a device like a computer or other computer-based USB audio source. Connect your computer to your XMC-1 using a good quality commercial USB cable. Avoid using cables over two meters in length, and avoid unusual “audiophile” cables that may not comply with standard USB data cable specifications. Note: This input requires a source device that supports UsB Audio Class 2 (UAC2). The XMC-1 will appear as an external UsB audio device to computers connected to this input. Modern Apple computers support this type of device directly (without any additional drivers); Windows computers will require you to load a driver on the computer (we provide the driver); other operating systems (like linux) may or may not support this type of connection. you CANNoT connect a UsB stick or UsB hard drive to this input. The XMC-1 will appear as a USB audio device (sound card or speaker) to a computer that is connected to this input. Like most audiophile DACs, this input supports two-channel PCM audio at sample rates between 44.1 kHz and 192 kHz at 16 bit or 24 bit depth, and does NOT support most multi-channel digital audio formats, including multi-channel PCM audio files or DSD. However, it DOES support playback of DTS encoded CDs and audio files (including both twochannel and surround sound types).

What am not understanding?

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post #7203 of 7489 Old 12-23-2018, 02:36 PM
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Interesting. I can live with multi channel pcm as Roon converts pretty well. Stuck with the hdmi input - only use it for multichannel- stereo runs through the ultra Rendu to the usb dac of the Oppo. Thanks
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post #7204 of 7489 Old 12-23-2018, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post
Not trying to start an argument here but if I understand the manual correctly the XMC-1 can accept M-CH DSD only thru HDMI.
If the MCH info is in DSD, the XMC-1 canNOT do any bass management or use Dirac or any other filters. You are limited to 'Direct' in DSD.
If the DSD MCH info is converted to PCM, then you can use bass management/Dirac, etc.

Here is the manual on what the USB DAC can accept:
Using The UsB stream Input (the Computer/DAC Input) The USB Stream Input on the XMC-1 is used to connect the USB digital audio output of a device like a computer or other computer-based USB audio source. Connect your computer to your XMC-1 using a good quality commercial USB cable. Avoid using cables over two meters in length, and avoid unusual “audiophile” cables that may not comply with standard USB data cable specifications. Note: This input requires a source device that supports UsB Audio Class 2 (UAC2). The XMC-1 will appear as an external UsB audio device to computers connected to this input. Modern Apple computers support this type of device directly (without any additional drivers); Windows computers will require you to load a driver on the computer (we provide the driver); other operating systems (like linux) may or may not support this type of connection. you CANNoT connect a UsB stick or UsB hard drive to this input. The XMC-1 will appear as a USB audio device (sound card or speaker) to a computer that is connected to this input. Like most audiophile DACs, this input supports two-channel PCM audio at sample rates between 44.1 kHz and 192 kHz at 16 bit or 24 bit depth, and does NOT support most multi-channel digital audio formats, including multi-channel PCM audio files or DSD. However, it DOES support playback of DTS encoded CDs and audio files (including both twochannel and surround sound types).

What am not understanding?
DTS is a lower bit rate than dsd - doesn’t need as big of pipe so I guess the usb can handle it. All my multichannel files are either dsd or high res Flac so I will use the hdmi.
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post #7205 of 7489 Old 12-23-2018, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post

What am not understanding?
It was me. If anything you didn’t understand my lack of understanding.

I re-read the part you quoted. My context was only re getting the signal into the XMC-1, though, and not what the options are for the stream once there. But I misread that he multichannel DACs were available to process DSD via the USB Stream input.

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post #7206 of 7489 Old 12-23-2018, 03:59 PM
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Is anyone connecting several sources devices to 1 HDMI input using a switch device? I have 3 multi-disc Blu-ray players to connect but only 1 free HDMI input. Trying to find a switcher that works with the XMC's new HDMI board. The one I am using now worked fine with my previous processors but I cannot get the XMC to consistently find it. The screen goes black and no video of any kind either from the players or the XMC's OSD will play on the TV screen. I can get audio but no video. I have to reboot from Lower Power mode to get the video to come back. Even though the players are 1080p I am using Certified Premium HDMI cables to and from the switch.


Any advice/suggestions will be much appreciated.




The switch I am using now is the SMARTOOO 23051 [email protected] HDMI 2.0 HDMI Switcher 5x1| HDR 5 Ports HDMI Switch 5x1(5 inputs and 1 output) 4:4:4 with remote control and auto switch.

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post #7207 of 7489 Old 12-24-2018, 05:59 AM
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Try a different HDMI cable.

For what it's worth, this is what works for me: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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post #7208 of 7489 Old 12-24-2018, 08:56 AM
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There is now a new version of Dirac Live, and I think that has been mention here before.

Has Emotiva made any mention of making it available to XMC-1?

Also, Dirac will be showing new bass management module at CES. The basic (tier 3) module is supposedly free to "current" Dirac users. Has this been mentioned by Emotiva?

https://www.dirac.com/news/dirac-liv...gement-ces2019

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post #7209 of 7489 Old 12-24-2018, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post
There is now a new version of Dirac Live, and I think that has been mention here before.

Has Emotiva made any mention of making it available to XMC-1?

Also, Dirac will be showing new bass management module at CES. The basic (tier 3) module is supposedly free to "current" Dirac users. Has this been mentioned by Emotiva?
Has the “new” Dirac Live been out and now it is the Bass Module that’s being released?

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post #7210 of 7489 Old 12-24-2018, 09:08 AM
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I say there is little to zero chance of the XMC-1 getting any Dirac updates. We've asked over at the Lounge. Keith's most recent response indicated that the software we have continues to work on Windows 10 and older versions of MacOS.


The RMC-1 will probably get 2.0, but I asked Keith specifically about the bass module and got crickets back.


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post #7211 of 7489 Old 12-24-2018, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Has the “new” Dirac Live been out and now it is the Bass Module that’s being released?
My understanding is the "new" Dirac Live is released as it is available to NAD owners on Dirac's website for purchase. The Bass Module, according to the link I posted, will be available Q2 of next year.

Just wondering if Emotiva has mention of either one way or another.

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post #7212 of 7489 Old 12-24-2018, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by millst View Post
I say there is little to zero chance of the XMC-1 getting any Dirac updates. We've asked over at the Lounge. Keith's most recent response indicated that the software we have continues to work on Windows 10 and older versions of MacOS.


The RMC-1 will probably get 2.0, but I asked Keith specifically about the bass module and got crickets back.


-tm
Thanks.

From Dirac's site on the "new" version:
"The new Dirac Live includes improved usability with a refreshed, modern user interface that features a simplified setup procedure. This new version shifts the UI from a fairly technical process requiring a substantial base of knowledge to one where the highly-intuitive app helps the user ensure everything is being done correctly. This is achieved through a more guided process that confirms the correct actions are being taken and the optimal settings are being implemented.

In addition to the usability upgrades, the new Dirac Live also includes an enhanced phase correction algorithm for improved stereo reproduction. Where the previous version of Dirac Live individually measured the phase of each stereo speaker, this new version also analyzes speakers in pairs, which ensures that the pair’s phase responses are matched to each other.

The new Dirac Live is now also built in a way that will allow users to customize the platform with “Dirac Live Modules.” Each module, introduced on a roughly yearly basis, will offer a unique piece of room correction functionality that allows users to customize their solution based on their specific requirements and market applications – be it home theater, stereo, professional studio, and/ or automotive."

Looks like good stuff! Oh well.

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post #7213 of 7489 Old 12-24-2018, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilbur_the_goose View Post
Try a different HDMI cable.

For what it's worth, this is what works for me: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Will be getting those cables and give them a try.


I believe I have figured out what was wrong. I took the switch unit out of the equation and attached the players directly to the XMC using separate inputs. At first this did not work if I was switching to the input first before turning the player on. I then turned the player on first to let them boot up (loooong process). This seems to be the solution. Players are now working if I turned them on first before switching to their input.


I believe the long boot process that these players (Sony BDP-CX960 and 2 Sony BDP-CX7000ES) go through was confusing the XMC in some way.


I have some other source devices (gaming systems) that I am going to try to use a switch with and see if that works out. There boot times are much quicker. I will give your cables a try.


Thank you very much.


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post #7214 of 7489 Old 12-24-2018, 04:25 PM
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Looks like good stuff! Oh well.
Id pay for it. But the hardware needs to be able to handle it,

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post #7215 of 7489 Old 12-24-2018, 10:12 PM
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Id pay for it. But the hardware needs to be able to handle it,
The Dirac hardware on the pre/pro end is pretty minimal, but yeah, that would be an issue.

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post #7216 of 7489 Old 12-25-2018, 05:34 AM
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The Dirac hardware on the pre/pro end is pretty minimal, but yeah, that would be an issue.
This road has already been traveled.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/t...crollTo=972203
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post #7217 of 7489 Old 12-25-2018, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
This road has already been traveled.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/t...crollTo=972203
Thanks on that.

Thread also indicates issues with the current version and Macs. It’s a hit or miss.

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post #7218 of 7489 Old 12-25-2018, 08:41 AM
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Dirac Live 2.0 offers a few nice features and better interface but I am not sure it would be a major upgrade. Dirac Unison, with the new bass paradigm, seems like a major change but very unlikely to run on the XMC-1.

One problem people have had with the current version of Dirac Live on the XMC-1 is that it will not run on the latest Mac OS. Keith's advice to keep an old PC around to run it is not a real practical solution (what happens when the PC dies?) Shame to have to abandon a fairly expensive processor but that seems the way of the world anymore. It does run on Win10 so the (one) alternative is to get a Windows PC.

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post #7219 of 7489 Old 12-25-2018, 09:11 AM
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Dirac Live 2.0 offers a few nice features and better interface but I am not sure it would be a major upgrade. Dirac Unison, with the new bass paradigm, seems like a major change but very unlikely to run on the XMC-1.

One problem people have had with the current version of Dirac Live on the XMC-1 is that it will not run on the latest Mac OS. Keith's advice to keep an old PC around to run it is not a real practical solution (what happens when the PC dies?) Shame to have to abandon a fairly expensive processor but that seems the way of the world anymore. It does run on Win10 so the (one) alternative is to get a Windows PC.
It won't run in "some" Mac with High Sierra and Mojave. My 13" MacBook Pro Retina mid-2014 running Mojave (10.14.2) has zero issues running Dirac Live.

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post #7220 of 7489 Old 12-25-2018, 09:42 AM
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It won't run in "some" Mac with High Sierra and Mojave. My 13" MacBook Pro Retina mid-2014 running Mojave (10.14.2) has zero issues running Dirac Live.
It's weird...

Last year I could not get it to run on my 2012 Mac Mini with High Sierra, so I ran it on a laptop PC with Windows 7.

Earlier this year, I got a MS Surface Pro 3 with Windows 10, and it ran fine.

A few weeks ago, I wanted to re-run Dirac, and I could not get it to run on the same Surface Pro 3. I tried again on the 2012 Mac Mini, now with Mojave, and after a few tries with messing with the firewall settings, it ran fine.

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post #7221 of 7489 Old 12-25-2018, 12:07 PM
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I wonder how many of the network/Dirac Live issues are due to firewall or other security settings? Or just plain network performance... I know I had to mess with things a bit when I first got my XMC-1, and had to switch to a lower-band link because the signal quality was so poor in the basement. On the advice of various folk here and elsewhere I tried some power line adapters. They worked great in my son's room (also in the basement, also struggling to get a reliable wifi signal), but did not work at all in the media room (separate power drop from a different service box and I was too cheap/lazy to buy and install a bridging kit).

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post #7222 of 7489 Old 12-26-2018, 06:51 AM
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For what it's worth - I used wired ethernet most everywhere, and I never had issues. I'm lucky, though - my XMC-1 is in my basement which is also where I have a router and switch, so it was an easy decision.
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post #7223 of 7489 Old 12-26-2018, 07:28 AM
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If I had to temporarily lay out a CAT6 cable on the floor to hardwire my XMC-1 to my network for calibrations, I would do so. Or even use an ethernet crossover cable between it and my laptop. The latter could be easily employed by everyone.

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post #7224 of 7489 Old 12-26-2018, 08:32 AM
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A crossover cable is a great idea! I did think of that but didn't have one laying around (that I could find -- I know I've got one or two, somewhere...) and you still need internet access, which was the problem I was having. Our basement was unfinished for many years and the cable modem, router, and switch (along with my NAS) are in my upstairs office two floors above and on the opposite side of the house from the basement media room. Stringing cable was not an option. The main HVAC ducts lie along the upper corner of the room and block the direct signal from the wireless router, another complication. I have added a repeater (range extender) on the first floor since then and that has been working OK. It seems to lose its mind and drop from the network now and then, probably due to a short power glitch, but normally works fine. I also added an access point ("media extender" per LinkSys) in the media room so the TV, XMC-1, and Oppo can all coexist on a local switch, and I can run a line to the notebook if need be. Not sure it helps, but means one thing to reboot instead of several when the network drops. Rural area, power delivery not the best... Chances are life would be better if I put the range extender on a small UPS like everything else.

Haven't been in the room for about a week now except to practice a bit (soundproofing means the rest of the house doesn't have to listen in); hoping to spend some time there the next few days (got a little time off as long as I am on call and can do a little work from home). For me at least the last FW release seems to have resolved most of the issues I had with the new v3 board (no streamers or Macs down there).

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post #7225 of 7489 Old 12-26-2018, 09:15 AM
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Does anyone ever have any issues with the input (HDMI) being detected? Almost 100% of the time when I turn on my equipment and select the input I want, the XMC doesn't seem to display it to my PJ. Even if the source I wanted to view was already selected from being previously used. Perhaps this is an issue with the JVC Projectors as I know there was much talk from little L and Keith during the 4K upgrade that they had coding issues when connecting to new(er) JVC Faux 4k projectors, but I don't hold much faith in getting an answer from either of them that I want to hear. I like others who have been with the company from day one still feel slapped in the face, but I'm not here to stir the pot of emotion between us all.

My typical Start up proc as follows:

1/ Turn on Projector or XMC
2/ Turn on XMC or Projector
3/ If need be, select input and turn on device; ATV4, XBOX 1X, PS Pro, HTPC, etc., etc.

Usually, I have to turn off the device I want to use, wait for my projector screen to go from blue to black, then turn back on the device and it works. This isn't a hard process by any means, but it surely frustrates me and has become the biggest reason that I wanted to upgrade to something else such as a Marantz, Anthem, Nad, Yamaha/Denon, etc. I know Athem has annoyed some with its slow switching as well, but I've still had it on my list. Even though I have yet to ever use Dirac on this processor because I'm also considering getting rid of it, I'm leaning towards Dirac or similar sound processing over Audy. I know I'm not doing my system any justice by keeping it flat (so-to-speak), so eventually I'd like to either get this corrected or switch to something else.

Just curious if anyone else is experiencing issues with switching and what your workaround, if any, has been? Perhaps its not the XMC as much as it is the Projector. Please note that it's not my cabling. I've switched HDMI cables more times than I can count with the same results. My run to the PJ is about 10' and from the HDMI ports to sources, 3' average.

Thanks!

Judd

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post #7226 of 7489 Old 12-26-2018, 09:46 AM
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Turn-on order and delay seem to be common themes, and apparently it is not always the XMC-1 at fault, but that does not make it any easier. John Schuermann and Rex Anderson are JVC dealers and John had an XMC-1 for a while so he may know something about JVC hand-shaking issues. You could try PM'ing them or posting in the JVC thread as well. I know it takes a few seconds for mine to switch into my LG OLED but it (so far, knock on wood) seems to get there in the end...

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post #7227 of 7489 Old 12-26-2018, 10:11 AM
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A crossover cable is a great idea! I did think of that but didn't have one laying around (that I could find -- I know I've got one or two, somewhere...) and you still need internet access, which was the problem I was having. Our basement was unfinished for many years and the cable modem, router, and switch (along with my NAS) are in my upstairs office two floors above and on the opposite side of the house from the basement media room. Stringing cable was not an option. The main HVAC ducts lie along the upper corner of the room and block the direct signal from the wireless router, another complication. I have added a repeater (range extender) on the first floor since then and that has been working OK. It seems to lose its mind and drop from the network now and then, probably due to a short power glitch, but normally works fine. I also added an access point ("media extender" per LinkSys) in the media room so the TV, XMC-1, and Oppo can all coexist on a local switch, and I can run a line to the notebook if need be. Not sure it helps, but means one thing to reboot instead of several when the network drops. Rural area, power delivery not the best... Chances are life would be better if I put the range extender on a small UPS like everything else.
I'm sure you have already looked for where you could run ethernet, so pls bear with me ... Check for mechanical/plumbing chases. It is likely that some pipes/ductwork goes from basement to the other floors. You may even have to tear something apart. But it would solve all of your problems.

Ten to fifteen or so years ago in our what was then a 13-18 year old house I retrofitted it with CAT6. First floor points were accessed from the basement while 2nd floor points were accessed from the attic. Tying it all together a a cable through a fortuitously located RADON remediation pipe that went from attic to basement! Multiple switches make it all work, but then I have switches at every "grouping" of gear anyway.

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post #7228 of 7489 Old 12-26-2018, 10:48 AM
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Yes, thanks, and if I had thought about it I had some options before we finished the basement. At this point there are no easy runs and the media room is isolated from the house HVAC (intentionally, for soundproofing). Right now tearing things up is not an option, expense and time, and since adding the range extender and local access point things have worked. When power glitches I sometimes have to do some manual resetting but that is not too big a deal. Someday I'll get a UPS for the range extender and that will probably fix even that. Or just go to a mesh network.

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post #7229 of 7489 Old 12-26-2018, 01:22 PM
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A crossover cable is a great idea! I did think of that but didn't have one laying around (that I could find -- I know I've got one or two, somewhere...) and you still need internet access, which was the problem I was having.

Any Ethernet cable would likely work. Almost all NICs these days have auto MDI-X and work with either patch/crossover cable. Won't solve your Internet access issue, of course.



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post #7230 of 7489 Old 12-26-2018, 01:52 PM
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Remember too that you don't need to keep the ethernet cable connected once you've completed your calibration. Just get yourself a 50' or 100' cable and put it anywhere on the floor. When you're done, bundle it up and store it away for the next time.
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