Emotiva XMC-1 Owners Only Thread - Page 92 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2731 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 06:22 AM
 
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From everything I read YOU are the only one with those issues. So ever think your unit was defective? It happens with everything including a 90,000$ car.

So stop insulting those that are not having issues and enjoying the unit. I am far from a fanboy. I have gotten into many arguments calling out emo for some of their odd dealings and fanboys looking through rose colored glasses. But the xmc is legit and the proof is in the sound

Oh btw I stayed at a holiday inn express last night
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post #2732 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
From everything I read YOU are the only one with those issues. So ever think your unit was defective? It happens with everything including a 90,000$ car.
I know it happens. This is why I sent test files here. Only one user seemed to check them and confirmed. Others look like so excited about spending $2000 that doesn't care how their units really perform.

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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
So stop insulting those that are not having issues and enjoying the unit.
Do stop insulting _me_ pretending that the problem with the unit I have is not a problem. Test the files on your unit and tell if it is reproducible for you if you want to be helpful. This is why I posted it here, not for the fans to convince me that I should close the eyes to the issue.

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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
I am far from a fanboy. I have gotten into many arguments calling out emo for some of their odd dealings and fanboys looking through rose colored glasses. But the xmc is legit and the proof is in the sound
Have you tried the files I and Markus have posted pass to the XMC-1 in a bit-perfect way? What is the result?
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post #2733 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by wilbur_the_goose View Post
They'll get back to you - it's just that phone calls are their #1 priority.
Hope so.
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post #2734 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by bighifi View Post
I love the sound of the XMC-1, but only have DIRAC LE for now. I am also auditioning a Yamaha RX-A3040. I have done some A/B comparisons and it seems (to my ears) the Yamaha has more depth and detail, but not the warmth of the Emotiva.
I can't compare it with Yamaha, but from my experience with Onkyo 818 - my subjective feeling is that XMC-1 have smoother mids, voices are good, but it is less detailed on high frequencies (cymbals etc.) than Onkyo was and Dirac gives less discriminating bass than XT32 did in my room. But yet, I probably haven't setup it to it's best... have to spent more time with Dirac and measurements.

Are you listening to Yamaha through it's own amps or use it's pre-outs for external amplification?
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post #2735 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
Trying to ignore/hide issues and replace them with emotions is a fanaticism. Issues need to be solved, not hidden. You, as a user should be interested in that they are fixed in the first place. I am starting to wonder if a lot of 'people' here are just marketing people... I don't understand such reaction at all! The issue is weird. Pops and skips in the middle of the content do not 'sound excellent' - they are weird artifacts!

And as an engineering professional (not sound mixing) I do not agree that those issues should be ignored - it is a failure in engineering not acceptable for 'premium' unit.
Are you serious? Maybe you missed my post earlier in this thread regarding my conversation with Emotiva. In that conversation I voiced my concerns about the DSD thump and the clicking at the start and end of discs with both issues when using HDMI. A number of other XMC-1 owners in this thread have voiced their concerns to Emotiva about these issues as well.

I'm not sure where you got that I "agree" that these issues should be ignored. That could be no further than the truth and you are totally mistaken in those thoughts. Reading your most recent posts shows that you interpret others posts and twist them around to your desire. Marketing people ? I've been an out spoken critic of Emotiva in the past on many issues. But I have also have given them credit with the products that perform well. As I mentioned earlier if you don't like the issues the XMC-1 has then return it or sell it. That's what I've done in the past with Emotiva products (UMC-1 and USP-1).

As far as "fanaticism" it appears to me that you are the one the most guilty of that. No one in this thread that I've seen has reacted in the way you have to fellow XMC-1 owners. Calling fellow XMC-1 owners "fanatics" and "marketing people" is really over the top IMO. You've voiced your concerns about the issues you have found a number of times. Which is fine but to brow beat fellow XMC-1 for not showing your level of displeasure is just wrong IMO.

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post #2736 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 07:06 AM
 
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Well said Bill
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post #2737 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
I know it happens. This is why I sent test files here. Only one user seemed to check them and confirmed. Others look like so excited about spending $2000 that doesn't care how their units really perform.


Do stop insulting _me_ pretending that the problem with the unit I have is not a problem. Test the files on your unit and tell if it is reproducible for you if you want to be helpful. This is why I posted it here, not for the fans to convince me that I should close the eyes to the issue.


Have you tried the files I and Markus have posted pass to the XMC-1 in a bit-perfect way? What is the result?

Besides test files, do you have any music CDs/files that it happens with? I will be happy to give them a try if I have any. I don't list to test files.
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post #2738 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by geebo View Post
Besides test files, do you have any music CDs/files that it happens with? I will be happy to give them a try if I have any.
Yes. this disc for example have zeroed pauses between tracks... Some of the Led-Zeppelin discs too... This is the first I checked...

Quote:
Originally Posted by geebo View Post
I don't list to test files.
Why? If they help to identify problems clearly...

I am engineer. So, if I make something with a purpose of quality - first I test it, second - watch/listen etc... Wish Emotiva to do the same.
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post #2739 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
I can't compare it with Yamaha, but from my experience with Onkyo 818 - my subjective feeling is that XMC-1 have smoother mids, voices are good, but it is less detailed on high frequencies (cymbals etc.) than Onkyo was and Dirac gives less discriminating bass than XT32 did in my room. But yet, I probably haven't setup it to it's best... have to spent more time with Dirac and measurements.

Are you listening to Yamaha through it's own amps or use it's pre-outs for external amplification?
Thanks for the response. I am using a BAT amp with both. I only one use the Yamaha for preamp.

I agree with your assessment.

If I agree with you then we will both be wrong
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post #2740 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 08:00 AM
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IgorZep,


If you actually have the XMC-1, why have you not returned it for a refund?
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post #2741 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
Yes. this disc for example have zeroed pauses between tracks... Some of the Led-Zeppelin discs too... This is the first I checked...


Why? If they help to identify problems clearly...

I am engineer. So, if I make something with a purpose of quality - first I test it, second - watch/listen etc... Wish Emotiva to do the same.

Don't have the first one but I have some LZ discs. Any specific discs/tracks?

I didn't buy the XMC to listen to test files that don't impact my listening enjoyment.
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post #2742 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 08:46 AM
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Hey IgorZep. I can reproduce the issue you found with the chromatic scale. I'm also worried about it. I believe this might be the root cause of the "thumping" and "clicking" we see with the XMC-1. Maybe we should post a thread on the lounge about it to raise awareness?

I've uploaded the chromatic scale (1) as well as a recording of its playback through my XMC-1 (2) to SoundCloud.
There are a lot of dropouts and thumps to be heard in the lower sections of the scale.
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post #2743 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by cougar75 View Post
If you actually have the XMC-1, why have you not returned it for a refund?
I prefer issues to be fixed, not to go rounds and rounds of exchanging one for another... It is also an expensive game for a heavy weight gear from another continent... I have time to do it still... But suggesting to return something immediately - is also strange advice... I report bugs to make product better. As was pointed above - there are no complex products without bugs. If it is a purely software bug - I see returning it less productive vs fixing it by manufacturer. I should give them a chance at least in the first place. If the issue can't be solved - only then the talk about returning should have started. Advising to do it other way further encourages manufacturers not to care about proper design and quality of their products... If it is not important for their customers - why should be it important for them?
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post #2744 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 09:14 AM
 
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I feel the only reason people here said to return it was because of your stacking comments that everyone was on the payroll or fanboys.

You seemed very dismissive to the thought these issues will be addressed by Emotiva. That's all

If they aren't addressed in a fw update then I can see your point

Trust me. I'm the last owner that gives emo a free pass lol
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post #2745 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by buletti View Post
I believe this might be the root cause of the "thumping" and "clicking" we see with the XMC-1.
I also think it is the root cause of most 'thumping'/'clicking' issues...

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Originally Posted by buletti View Post
Maybe we should post a thread on the lounge about it to raise awareness?
Thought about it too... Just didn't have time yet.
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post #2746 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by buletti View Post
Hey IgorZep. I can reproduce the issue you found with the chromatic scale. I'm also worried about it. I believe this might be the root cause of the "thumping" and "clicking" we see with the XMC-1. Maybe we should post a thread on the lounge about it to raise awareness?

I've uploaded the chromatic scale (1) as well as a recording of its playback through my XMC-1 (2) to SoundCloud.
There are a lot of dropouts and thumps to be heard in the lower sections of the scale.

I might have missed it, but does it matter how you play it?
For example: HDMI versus COAX.


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post #2747 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by geebo View Post
Don't have the first one but I have some LZ discs. Any specific discs/tracks?
There are so many re-releases/remasters that I am not sure we have the same discs/mixes. It is better to check them with some sound-editing software, magnify pauses and look if they are coded as zeroes. If they are the disc is probably good for test. The 'stronger'/'faster' the beginning of the composition after this zero-bytes-pause the more it is audible. I don't remember what exactly releases of LS I have, as far as I remember it was some of the early remasters of LZ1. When I'll be at home I can try to extract some track transitions.

As the test files demonstrate this issue is not the HDMI sync issue in beginning of stream and it can also happen in the middle of the track when no syncing occurs and the sound stream is already locked for long enough time.

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I didn't buy the XMC to listen to test files that don't impact my listening enjoyment.
Again - why not do it to verify it's operation if the files are made with such purpose?
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post #2748 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
I also think it is the root cause of most 'thumping'/'clicking' issues...
If that is the case, then I have read that Emotiva has identified the problem.
I would certainly wait for word from them before returning it.

I find J River/ J Remote driving a USB DAC is convenient (excellent UI) and provides superb playback quality.
This does not mitigate your issues, but you might want to try the USB DAC on the Emotiva.

I have a Dune HD, is that the same unit?

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post #2749 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
I might have missed it, but does it matter how you play it?
For example: HDMI versus COAX.
I don't know yet. HDMI with bit-perfect transfer is affected. Everything else can be affected too, but also it might be not. You can test it and compare. Any additional statistics are welcome.
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post #2750 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 09:51 AM
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My original recording was done via HDMI. I just tested it via the optical SPDIF input and got the same result. I'm too lazy to look for the coax cable, but I'd expect the same. This seems to be an issue with all digital inputs.

However, the chromatic scale plays fine, if I use the analog inputs. Digital signals seem to be fine, when the XMC-1 is creating them through AD conversion.
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post #2751 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 09:55 AM
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I have a Dune HD, is that the same unit?
Dune HD is the company. Smart B1 is the model with Blu-ray drive. Basically they are all more or less the same. What matters they can be set up to pass sound bit-perfectly for decoding and processing it externally by AVP/AVR.
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post #2752 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 10:01 AM
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So a little change of pace, those the July issue of Stereophile comes out this June?


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post #2753 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 10:09 AM
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Can someone tell me where I find the Emotiva mic calibration file? i.e. which folder in Windows? Sorry if the answer is in the manual, lol. I have several different calibration files and plan on comparing them and posting the results. I just haven't located the standard Emo file yet. I just installed Dirac but in the Emotiva folder there are no files other than the DL application and the uninstall. I'm using Win7. thanks
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post #2754 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
If it helps. I had atmos in my ht before the xmc and I have since gone away from the atmos in favor of the sound of the xmc. I found the sound quality of the xmc trumps the small add of atmos in my small Ht

Ymmv
And I reached the exact opposite conclusion ...

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post #2755 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 10:20 AM
 
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And I reached the exact opposite conclusion ...
My HT is really small though. So my surrounds really are able to immerse me like the atmos did when the basement was unfinished.

So for te time being I am going away from
Atmos

Once it becomes more mainstream with more content I'll jump back in
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post #2756 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 10:23 AM
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My HT is really small though. So my surrounds really are able to immerse me like the atmos did when the basement was unfinished.

So for te time being I am going away from
Atmos

Once it becomes more mainstream with more content I'll jump back in
Those are important caveats Brian, thanks ...

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post #2757 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 10:28 AM
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Are you serious? Maybe you missed my post earlier in this thread regarding my conversation with Emotiva. In that conversation I voiced my concerns about the DSD thump and the clicking at the start and end of discs with both issues when using HDMI. A number of other XMC-1 owners in this thread have voiced their concerns to Emotiva about these issues as well.

I'm not sure where you got that I "agree" that these issues should be ignored. That could be no further than the truth and you are totally mistaken in those thoughts. Reading your most recent posts shows that you interpret others posts and twist them around to your desire. Marketing people ? I've been an out spoken critic of Emotiva in the past on many issues. But I have also have given them credit with the products that perform well. As I mentioned earlier if you don't like the issues the XMC-1 has then return it or sell it. That's what I've done in the past with Emotiva products (UMC-1 and USP-1).

As far as "fanaticism" it appears to me that you are the one the most guilty of that. No one in this thread that I've seen has reacted in the way you have to fellow XMC-1 owners. Calling fellow XMC-1 owners "fanatics" and "marketing people" is really over the top IMO. You've voiced your concerns about the issues you have found a number of times. Which is fine but to brow beat fellow XMC-1 for not showing your level of displeasure is just wrong IMO.

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+1 Bill, slightly in Igor's defence perhaps not being a native english speaker, he doesn't understand the way we use or react to the word "fanatic"?

As for Igor, I suggest he try some different HDMI cables, as these are famous for causing problems of all kinds due to handshake issues, which could cause pops and clicks as it keeps trying to establish a connection and fails quite often.
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post #2758 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
There are so many re-releases/remasters that I am not sure we have the same discs/mixes. It is better to check them with some sound-editing software, magnify pauses and look if they are coded as zeroes. If they are the disc is probably good for test. The 'stronger'/'faster' the beginning of the composition after this zero-bytes-pause the more it is audible. I don't remember what exactly releases of LS I have, as far as I remember it was some of the early remasters of LZ1. When I'll be at home I can try to extract some track transitions.

As the test files demonstrate this issue is not the HDMI sync issue in beginning of stream and it can also happen in the middle of the track when no syncing occurs and the sound stream is already locked for long enough time.


Again - why not do it to verify it's operation if the files are made with such purpose?
Again, I don't listen to test files and I'll bet a lot of others don't.

I did play the test file and I did hear what you're referring to. But I have also had the XMC since July 2014 and have never experienced that with any Flacs, CDs or DVD/BD Audio whether it be movies or concerts and that covers a lot of listening time and that also includes the LZ music I have. So why should these test files' behavior bother me?
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post #2759 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buletti View Post
My original recording was done via HDMI. I just tested it via the optical SPDIF input and got the same result. I'm too lazy to look for the coax cable, but I'd expect the same. This seems to be an issue with all digital inputs.

However, the chromatic scale plays fine, if I use the analog inputs. Digital signals seem to be fine, when the XMC-1 is creating them through AD conversion.
Addendum: The issue also exists for when the XMC-1 is connected digitally as USB DAC.
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post #2760 of 7551 Old 05-24-2015, 11:02 AM
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I don't list to test files.
I was waiting for that exact comment to happen

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