The "Official" Yamaha RX-A1040, RX-A2040 and RX-A3040 AVENTAGE AVR Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 3441 Old 08-17-2014, 11:54 PM
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well, i didn't want to hear that.. i thought the way it sounds..
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post #122 of 3441 Old 08-18-2014, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
RX-A3040 on the way.

I have one , and ,, you won't be disappointed ...
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post #123 of 3441 Old 08-18-2014, 12:37 AM
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does it have a bright sound?
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post #124 of 3441 Old 08-18-2014, 01:01 PM
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Just put an order in for a A2040A. I was ready to pull the trigger on the A3040 but I think it was a little more then what I needed. I'm coming from an Elite SC-35. I was really having hard time in deciding to stay with Elite and get an SC-85 or go with the A2040.

I opted for the Yamaha. I took some time to listen to each and I liked the warmer sound of the yamaha.

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post #125 of 3441 Old 08-18-2014, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammie2980 View Post
Just put an order in for a A2040A. I was ready to pull the trigger on the A3040 but I think it was a little more then what I needed. I'm coming from an Elite SC-35. I was really having hard time in deciding to stay with Elite and get an SC-85 or go with the A2040.

I opted for the Yamaha. I took some time to listen to each and I liked the warmer sound of the yamaha.
Please let us know how you like it?
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post #126 of 3441 Old 08-18-2014, 03:55 PM
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i am in the same boat.. maybe i should go with 2040, but ypao seems better with 3040, with that toy like a boomerang
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post #127 of 3441 Old 08-18-2014, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
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^^ Right now the angle measurements are only useful when using presence speakers and certain DSP / HD3 listening programs.

We really don't know at this point if they will be used once they upgrade to Atmos.
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post #128 of 3441 Old 08-18-2014, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
^^ Right now the angle measurements are only useful when using presence speakers and certain DSP / HD3 listening programs.

We really don't know at this point if they will be used once they upgrade to Atmos.
hd3 how it sounds compared to the one from 2040 (i dont remember the name, something like dsp 3d..) ?
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post #129 of 3441 Old 08-18-2014, 05:26 PM
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Long time lurker, first time poster here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by traianescu View Post
does it have a bright sound?
I just got my 3040 setup this weekend. Now, I came from a RX-V773WABL, which is pretty much comparing apples to oranges. I thought I had a great sound before, but it does not compare to the 3040. To elaborate, I have Paradigm Studio 60s up front with a CC590 center channel, some decent Klipsch surrounds (audio is always a WIP!!! ) and a pair of SVS SB13-Ultras placed next to the mains. I used YPAO Flat and also bi-amped on my 773 and now again on my 3040.

I listen to mostly 2.2 channel audio and very often 2.0 in Pure Direct. Even in pure direct, my Paradigms sound entirely different. From the very bottoms to the (now) super rich highs, I find the sound far more detailed and, much brighter than before. As others have noted in other threads, "YPAO Natural" takes a bit of the edge off the high end and will be your ticket if you want calibrated sound without harsh highs. Of course, you can always copy the Flat or Natural YPAO profile to the Manual one and tweak from there after YPAO does its thing.

Though I've greatly enjoyed this receiver for the last 3 days, has anyone found where you setup your subwoofer crossovers??? I'm entirely befuddled as to where the options are. I sifted briskly through the http://receiver.ip.address/Setup area, too, but no luck. I emailed Yamaha this morning to ask and I'll update with my findings. Surely, they couldn't have nixed that, could they? I personally like my crossovers set to 120Hz on the subwoofers for a little more kick in my music and 100 or 80 for movies.

Does anyone else think HDMI switching is slow, too? It took me a bit to figure out that, in comparison to my 773, the analog and HDMI share "AV[X]" input names. So AV1 can be either HDMI or the analog inputs.

All in all, I'm incredibly happy with this unit so far. I've never had a high end unit like this before and the sound, simply put, is amazing, has amazing dynamics, and seems to power my Paradigms the way they were meant to be.
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post #130 of 3441 Old 08-18-2014, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1n3t1k View Post
Though I've greatly enjoyed this receiver for the last 3 days, has anyone found where you setup your subwoofer crossovers??? I'm entirely befuddled as to where the options are. I sifted briskly through the http://receiver.ip.address/Setup area, too, but no luck. I emailed Yamaha this morning to ask and I'll update with my findings. Surely, they couldn't have nixed that, could they? I personally like my crossovers set to 120Hz on the subwoofers for a little more kick in my music and 100 or 80 for movies.
Just to clarify...

Are you talking about the low pass filter for the LFE, or the crossover for bass redirection?

there is no filter..

the crossovers show up when you change the speakers to small.

Last edited by FilmMixer; 08-18-2014 at 05:40 PM.
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post #131 of 3441 Old 08-18-2014, 06:22 PM
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FilmMixer,

I don't understand your question about the 'bass redirection'. But, it would be akin to the low pass filter for the subwoofers. In my 773, it was just called crossover under the Subwoofer configuration and it was variable from 40Hz to 200Hz and was independent of the Small or Large speaker settings and allowed me to put a little more punch in the SB13 Ultras because I find 80Hz to be too low and 120Hz was the sweet spot in my car stereo days and on my previous RX-V773 for music.

Are you inferring if I set the crossover of the mains to 120Hz, would that be the A3040 equivalent of my previous setup? (despite the 80-120Hz overlap I had before with my mains and the subwoofers)

I hope that clears things up!
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post #132 of 3441 Old 08-18-2014, 06:34 PM
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The 3040 seems great but is above my budget. I'm looking into the 2040 or paying a bit more and getting last year's 3030. Anything in this year's model that I'll really miss if i go for the 3030 over 2040?
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post #133 of 3441 Old 08-18-2014, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronxkid View Post
The 3040 seems great but is above my budget. I'm looking into the 2040 or paying a bit more and getting last year's 3030. Anything in this year's model that I'll really miss if i go for the 3030 over 2040?
Make sure you call AVScience store or pm me...

If you're comparing at MSRP you can do much better.
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post #134 of 3441 Old 08-18-2014, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1n3t1k View Post
FilmMixer,

I don't understand your question about the 'bass redirection'. But, it would be akin to the low pass filter for the subwoofers. In my 773, it was just called crossover under the Subwoofer configuration and it was variable from 40Hz to 200Hz and was independent of the Small or Large speaker settings and allowed me to put a little more punch in the SB13 Ultras because I find 80Hz to be too low and 120Hz was the sweet spot in my car stereo days and on my previous RX-V773 for music.

Are you inferring if I set the crossover of the mains to 120Hz, would that be the A3040 equivalent of my previous setup? (despite the 80-120Hz overlap I had before with my mains and the subwoofers)

I hope that clears things up!
You have a LPF on your SVS sub.. if you set that to 120Hz, you can decide what the overlap frequency is for the mains..

LFE for films should be at 120Hz... there is a bunch of content between 80 - 120..

Unless you are listening to MC music, there is no LFE content.. it's all bass managed information going to the subwoofer..

If you want to have the subwoofer only reproduce below 80 for music, you can set up a secondary speaker pattern with the crossovers set for 80 and make a scene for Music listening for that, and have the other set for 120Hz for films.. note that the sub will still reproduce all of the LFE content for film in either mode, and the mains will still get the 80-120 for music...

If you had the sub LPF on the old AVR, you were indeed missing some LFE information... it still shouldn't have changed the crossover content....

Not sure as I'm not familiar with that older model..
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post #135 of 3441 Old 08-18-2014, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronxkid View Post
The 3040 seems great but is above my budget. I'm looking into the 2040 or paying a bit more and getting last year's 3030. Anything in this year's model that I'll really miss if i go for the 3030 over 2040?
The X040 models omit S-Video inputs and backlit remote, but the 2040 and 3040 will have Dolby Atmos, pending a firmware update later this year. Between the 3030 and 2040, there's negligible power differences, but other than the items above, there's nothing else significant, IMHO.

FilmMixer - Thanks, I'm aware of the crossovers on the subs; I guess I was just expecting to change it on the receiver like my 773 and disable the LPF on the Sledge amp. It was my understanding that 'most' recommended setups with Audyssey and the alike, generally cut their subwoofers at 80Hz - perhaps I'm gravely mistaken! It was super easy to flip between 80 and 120Hz for movies and music, respectively, versus squatting over and using my phone's camera screen so I can see when I navigate the menus on the Sledge amps.

Older model?!?! Hey, the V773 only 2 years old!

As it stands right now, I think the subwoofers are fed the remainder of what I cross my mains at, which is what you stated earlier. I was just under the impression it was independent on this 3040 like my older one. I will tinker around and perhaps cross the mains at 120 and see if that is my ticket. I would get my UMIK-1 out, but I'm so in love with how damn good everything sounds on this AVR!

Thank you for your quick responses!

EDIT: Changed the main crossover to 120Hz - I will live with that. Thank you for clarifying and helping me! There's always a learning curve when stepping up to the big boy AVRs.

Last edited by k1n3t1k; 08-18-2014 at 08:05 PM. Reason: woohoo!
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post #136 of 3441 Old 08-19-2014, 05:14 AM
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I'm wondering how wide the frequency steps in the PEQ tool are. Could someone please post that information? Thanks!

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post #137 of 3441 Old 08-19-2014, 05:33 AM
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...I'm aware of the crossovers on the subs; I guess I was just expecting to change it on the receiver like my 773 and disable the LPF on the Sledge amp...
The V773 doesn't have any capabilities that the new models are lacking. In fact the 773 it missing the individual crossovers of the 2040/3040.

So it's not clear what you are trying to do, but if you could do it with the 773 you can certainly do it with the 2040/3040.

The crossover (for each speaker group independently) is set in the receiver, and if you want an additional LPF for the sub (which is not really recommended) you use the knob on the back of the sub.
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post #138 of 3441 Old 08-19-2014, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
I'm wondering how wide the frequency steps in the PEQ tool are. Could someone please post that information? Thanks!

7 bands per channel (4 for the sub channels), adjustable but only to 1/3 octave intervals.

The first 4 bands for each channel can be set to 31.3, 39.4, 49.6, 62.5Hz, etc. up to 16K, and the other three only start at 500Hz.
The 4 sub bands are 31.3 to 250Hz, still in 1/3 octave intervals.
Filter width is adjustable from Q=0.5 to about Q=10.

YPAO in recent years also does something to suppress reflections (see "R.S.C." on the Yamaha web site), but they don't say exactly what it does or give you control over it, but it's in addition to the PEQ. Overall it seems to be "good enough" for the main channels, but not for the subs.

If you want to play with the PEQ filters you can download this tool (PEQedit): http://www.mediafire.com/download/im...n4/PEQedit.zip

You don't need the receiver to play with the filters in PEQedit and see what settings are available. To see the response curve make sure you bring up the second window (from the menu select View / Response Curve).

(PEQedit is a work in progress, but it can currently control the receiver via network commands. Right now it's good for reading back the settings to see what YPAO did, or making manual changes. It might get developed into something more useful one day.)


BTW I'm assuming the 3040 PEQ is the same as the 3030, which I suspect it is.
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post #139 of 3441 Old 08-19-2014, 06:02 AM
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PEQedit

And if anyone with a Yamaha network receiver wants to try PEQedit, the basic instructions are:

Turn your receiver on and run the program (filters can be read but not changed unless powered on). Then:
Enter the IP address of the receiver.
Press the red Open button and it should turn green if it can communicate.
It should also display the specific model number and series.
From the menu bar select View / Response Curve.
Select a specific PEQ Type and Speaker Pattern, then press UPLOAD to PC.
The slider controls and the response curve should be showing the settings read from the receiver.
Choose any Channel to display filters for that channel.
You can only make changes to Manual mode.
With manual selected you can change the filters, then press DOWNLOAD to AVR.
(downloading is pretty slow to send all 7 filters for all channels, so I really need to make it possible to download only one filter).

The response curve shows the individual filters in red and the combined response in black.
When you make changes nothing is currently changed in the AVR in real time, only the DOWNLOAD button makes changes.
It would definitely be useful to have a mode where the changes have an immediate effect.

Right now it's just a program in development, but any feedback would be useful if people have ideas what else it should do.

Note that even if you don't have one of these receivers, you can still play with the filter parameters to get a feel for how Q and the other parameters affect the filter shape.

And to repeat the download link: http://www.mediafire.com/download/im...n4/PEQedit.zip
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post #140 of 3441 Old 08-19-2014, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post
7 bands per channel (4 for the sub channels), adjustable but only to 1/3 octave intervals.

The first 4 bands for each channel can be set to 31.3, 39.4, 49.6, 62.5Hz, etc. up to 16K, and the other three only start at 500Hz.
The 4 sub bands are 31.3 to 250Hz, still in 1/3 octave intervals.
Filter width is adjustable from Q=0.5 to about Q=10.
Thanks a lot kriktsemaj99! Unfortunately that makes the Yamaha useless to me.

*rant on*
Is it really that hard for manufacturers to include a useful PEQ? Even the UMC-200 does better.
*rant off*

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post #141 of 3441 Old 08-19-2014, 07:20 AM
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^ Obviously for the sub you need precise, narrow filters for room modes. But for the main channels over what frequency range do you need to make more precise adjustments? What's the minimum improvement Yamaha need to make? (not that they listen much to customers, but they've been using the same PEQ code forever and it's definitely time for an improvement).
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post #142 of 3441 Old 08-19-2014, 07:26 AM
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kriktsemaj99: what am i loosing if i choose 2040 over 3040? In terms of power/ypao
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post #143 of 3441 Old 08-19-2014, 08:15 AM
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^ YPAO is the same. Power is nominally 10W per channel more for the 3040, which is not much. You can compare the two models on Yamaha's web site.

The biggest difference if you want Atmos is 11.2 for the 3040 (with an external amp for two channels) vs only 9.2 for the 2040 (not expandable even with an external amp). And only the 3040 measures speaker angles, which might or might not even be used for Atmos, we don't know yet.
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post #144 of 3441 Old 08-19-2014, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post
^ Obviously for the sub you need precise, narrow filters for room modes. But for the main channels over what frequency range do you need to make more precise adjustments? What's the minimum improvement Yamaha need to make? (not that they listen much to customers, but they've been using the same PEQ code forever and it's definitely time for an improvement).
Filters above the Schroeder frequency don't need to be narrow, it's about the ability to match a certain filter shape. For this the center frequency of each band needs to be adjustable in very small increments.

Just for illustration here's such a filter shape:

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post #145 of 3441 Old 08-19-2014, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post
^ YPAO is the same. Power is nominally 10W per channel more for the 3040, which is not much. You can compare the two models on Yamaha's web site.

The biggest difference if you want Atmos is 11.2 for the 3040 (with an external amp for two channels) vs only 9.2 for the 2040 (not expandable even with an external amp). And only the 3040 measures speaker angles, which might or might not even be used for Atmos, we don't know yet.
i think 10 watts it is not a big loose
this ypao version which measures angles and width with that "boomerang" - this kind of measure it's only for one position, right ? does it offer any advantages for a non-atmos use ?
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post #146 of 3441 Old 08-19-2014, 10:28 AM
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^ YPAO can correct for multiple positions, but only the main position is used to determine the speaker angles.

Yamaha already use the angles for their own "CINEMA DSP 3D" processsing, but some of us are hoping they will also use them for Atmos (especially as they just added the vertical angle, where previously they only measured the horizontal angle).
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post #147 of 3441 Old 08-19-2014, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Filters above the Schroeder frequency don't need to be narrow, it's about the ability to match a certain filter shape. For this the center frequency of each band needs to be adjustable in very small increments.

Just for illustration here's such a filter shape...

I guess it depends how accurate you need to be. With PEQedit I could match that particular filter shape manually to within about 1dB, and at some point it's "good enough".
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post #148 of 3441 Old 08-19-2014, 10:33 AM
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11-channel configuration(s)

Hey, all - have a prospective buyer lined up for my RX-A800, so real close to pulling the trigger on the 3040, but could use any words of wisdom regarding my previous posting as below...

Thx

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2011 View Post
I was/am just getting ready to put in an order for the 3040, but decided to download and peruse the manual first. I'm now not so sure that I can make the configuration that I really want. The selectable configurations seem a bit weird to me.

Currently, with my RX-A800, I run a 7.1 (using Front Presence) in my room. (Note: I have a 3-ch external amp that I use on the L/C/R). I pre-wired for various other possible speaker placements.

First, I want to add a stereo pair (ceiling speakers) in the bonus/kid's play room adjacent to my main room. It looks to me like the only configuration that allows you to do this is the 7ch+Front+1Zone, which requires you to externally amplify the front mains. As I am/will be amplifying the main L/C/R anyway, I guess this works fine, except that I won't actually be using any rear surrounds which are part of this pre-set configuration.

The 2nd thing I planned to do was add 2 rear on-wall speakers, to make a 9.1 (or 2) in my main room, while using a stereo pair in my adjacent room. These would be at the same height as my (side) surrounds - not as high as the front presence - but likely more in line width-wise with the front presence, rather than the width of the front mains. I had thought that I could assign these as rear presence.

But, it appears there is no configuration for this; there appears to be no configuration that allows you to use rear "presence" speakers unless you are also using rear surround speakers (even though it says they don't output sound at the same time).

I could use the 7ch+Front+1Zone as above, but my rear speakers would not really be in the "suggested" rear speaker positioning. Also, without officially using the rear presence assignment in the AVR, my understanding is that I would not get DSP HD3, but only DSP 3D.

So, I guess the first question is, am I reading this correctly?

And, the 2nd question is, going with this configuration, and already using an external amp for the L/C/R, am I right in understanding that I don't actually need to add ANOTHER external amp to get the 11-ch configuration (I will actually only be using 8 of the 9 internal amps, though).

And, lastly, if I use this configuration, the extra zone is actually Zone 3 - which then can't support audio from an HDMI source? For now, the speakers in the extra room would just be for playback from music sources (CD player, streaming using Sonos Connect, etc.), but I might eventually want to put a TV in that room, and I do get music channels through my cable box. My understanding is that Zone 3 couldn't accept the audio from these HDMI sources.

Boston Acoustics Classic series L/C/R + front presence; Fluance XLBP Bipole surrounds; 2 x PSA XS15se
Yamaha RX-A3040; 3 x Emotiva XPA-100; Emotiva BAS-X A500
Oppo BDP-103D
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post #149 of 3441 Old 08-19-2014, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post
I guess it depends how accurate you need to be. With PEQedit I could match that particular filter shape manually to within about 1dB, and at some point it's "good enough".
The filter was just for illustrative purposes. Just because you could match it within 1dB doesn't mean the PEQ in the Yamaha has the resolution I'm looking for.
Furthermore, resolution for adjustments below the room's Schroeder frequency is definitely too coarse. That alone is a no go.

Markus

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post #150 of 3441 Old 08-19-2014, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
The filter was just for illustrative purposes. Just because you could match it within 1dB doesn't mean the PEQ in the Yamaha has the resolution I'm looking for.
Furthermore, resolution for adjustments below the room's Schroeder frequency is definitely too coarse. That alone is a no go.
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