Onkyo acknowledges failed units and extending warrranties until 2018 - Page 94 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2791 of 2798 Old 07-07-2019, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by oneiro View Post
Thanks for your insight Todd. It looks like repair companies here in Aus are being quoted ~$400 for a replacement HDMI board + labor which is a bit much lol

For a permanent fix, you mention models such as the NR626 will have the latest version of the DTS chip. Is there a list somewhere I can see other suitable models with a donor chip to aid in my ebay scouring?

In the meantime, is there anything I can do for a 'medium term' fix? Can I just keep reflowing the chip with a heat gun every time it plays up, indefinitely?

You can try reheating but once the buffers are worn out the chip simply won't work anymore regardless of what you do. The good news is that TI designed the "D Rev" as a perfect replacement so there are no changes required to firmware nor circuitry.


I don't know of a definitive list but from experience I can confirm that the following boards make a good source for 400Mhz "D Rev" parts (these end in "4" as in D830K013DZKB4):


first generation with "D Rev": Onkyo NR: 525/626/727/828 /RZ800/RZ900 Integra: anything that ends in x0.5 (example: DTR-80.5)
third generation with "D Rev": Onkyo NR: 545/646/747/848 /RZ810/RZ910

Everything after this (ex: NR676) uses a completely different chip.

the second generation with the "D Rev" uses a 500Mhz part (denoted as a '5' at the end ex. D830K013DZKB5). I have installed these in systems that require a 400Mhz part and they seem to work properly. These parts use a 24Mhz clock rather than the 20Mhz clock that ships for the 400Mhz parts so when you install it in a 400Mhz system (with the 20Mhz clock) it seems to step down in frequency and work properly. These models include:


Onkyo NR: 535/636/737/838 Integra: anything that ends in x0.6 (example: DTR70.6)


For the sake of others who may review this thread, when I state that the 400Mhz "D Rev" is a 100% compatible replacement for the "B Rev" parts it is important to note that it is NOT a perfect replacement for the 300Mhz parts used in earlier models like the NR3007/NR3008/NR708 etc. These systems use a part stamped as D830K011BZKB3 or D830K013BZKB3. Since these parts only run at 300Mhz you cannot install a 400Mhz part and expect it to work. The Onkyo repair on these units does use a 400Mhz "D Rev" chip but to make it work, they change the firmware for both the DSP and the MAIN CPU. Unfortunately, Onkyo does not make this firmware available to anyone except authorized service depots which makes it impractical for anyone to attempt this. Essentially, when the chip fails, the entire unit becomes a paperweight.

One last note: In the USA, when Onkyo repairs a board using the new "D Rev" chip, they place a sticker on the chip that says "New" that is visible in the pictures of the board. I have found a couple of boards on eBay that had this sticker and when I purchased the board, I found good DSP chips on them (but had other problems). I don't know if this is the same in all regions and I should also point out that after this post, a bunch of people might start making stickers so be wary.





HTH
Todd

Last edited by TJMotter; 07-07-2019 at 08:06 AM.
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post #2792 of 2798 Old 07-07-2019, 08:13 AM
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I should add that when these chips fail while they are running, it is possible for them to corrupt the firmware. For reasons I don't fully understand this happens more often on the NR 509/609/809 and Integra 20.3/30.3/40.3/80.3. The risk you run with continuously reheating it is that at some point it is going to fail while running and then you will be opening a whole new can of worms to fix the firmware. If you are interested in what this entails, I outline it at the following link:


http://repairalmostanything.com/thre...-fitted?page=2






Quote:
Originally Posted by TJMotter View Post
You can try reheating but once the buffers are worn out the chip simply won't work anymore regardless of what you do. The good news is that TI designed the "D Rev" as a perfect replacement so there are no changes required to firmware nor circuitry.


I don't know of a definitive list but from experience I can confirm that the following boards make a good source for 400Mhz "D Rev" parts (these end in "4" as in D830K013DZKB4):


first generation with "D Rev": Onkyo NR: 525/626/727/828 /RZ800/RZ900 Integra: anything that ends in x0.5 (example: DTR-80.5)
third generation with "D Rev": Onkyo NR: 545/646/747/848 /RZ810/RZ910

Everything after this (ex: NR676) uses a completely different chip.

the second generation with the "D Rev" uses a 500Mhz part (denoted as a '5' at the end ex. D830K013DZKB5). I have installed these in systems that require a 400Mhz part and they seem to work properly. These parts use a 24Mhz clock rather than the 20Mhz clock that ships for the 400Mhz parts so when you install it in a 400Mhz system (with the 20Mhz clock) it seems to step down in frequency and work properly. These models include:


Onkyo NR: 535/636/737/838 Integra: anything that ends in x0.6 (example: DTR70.6)


For the sake of others who may review this thread, when I state that the 400Mhz "D Rev" is a 100% compatible replacement for the "B Rev" parts it is important to note that it is NOT a perfect replacement for the 300Mhz parts used in earlier models like the NR3007/NR3008/NR708 etc. These systems use a part stamped as D830K011BZKB3 or D830K013BZKB3. Since these parts only run at 300Mhz you cannot install a 400Mhz part and expect it to work. The Onkyo repair on these units does use a 400Mhz "D Rev" chip but to make it work, they change the firmware for both the DSP and the MAIN CPU. Unfortunately, Onkyo does not make this firmware available to anyone except authorized service depots which makes it impractical for anyone to attempt this. Essentially, when the chip fails, the entire unit becomes a paperweight.

One last note: In the USA, when Onkyo repairs a board using the new "D Rev" chip, they place a sticker on the chip that says "New" that is visible in the pictures of the board. I have found a couple of boards on eBay that had this sticker and when I purchased the board, I found good DSP chips on them (but had other problems). I don't know if this is the same in all regions and I should also point out that after this post, a bunch of people might start making stickers so be wary.





HTH
Todd
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post #2793 of 2798 Old 07-07-2019, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TJMotter View Post
I should add that when these chips fail while they are running, it is possible for them to corrupt the firmware. For reasons I don't fully understand this happens more often on the NR 509/609/809 and Integra 20.3/30.3/40.3/80.3. The risk you run with continuously reheating it is that at some point it is going to fail while running and then you will be opening a whole new can of worms to fix the firmware. If you are interested in what this entails, I outline it at the following link:
Thanks Todd. I wouldn't be surprised if the chip has failed while running already. How can I determine if the firmware is corrupt?

I don't think I'll be finding a replacement DTS chip anytime soon given the small market in my corner of the world, which is a shame, so continuously reheating the chip seems to be the only practical thing I can do :S
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post #2794 of 2798 Old 07-08-2019, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by oneiro View Post
Thanks Todd. I wouldn't be surprised if the chip has failed while running already. How can I determine if the firmware is corrupt?

I don't think I'll be finding a replacement DTS chip anytime soon given the small market in my corner of the world, which is a shame, so continuously reheating the chip seems to be the only practical thing I can do :S

Unfortunately the only way I have found is the replace it as the last resort. The symptoms of failure are identical to the DSP "no boot". If I have confirmed the voltages, installed a new chip and confirmed that it is properly seated and the system won't boot, the last resort is to install a new firmware chip.


When I go to read them after pulling them off they still have code on them but when i compare the contents to a good NAND, I will see 100's of thousands of mis-compares. This is kind of expected since both chips would have different bad blocks but it also makes it almost impossible to figure out where the corruption is.


I first ran into this on an Integra 20.3. I happened to be working on an NR609 at the same time and it also had corrupted firmware. Fortunately, the 609 corruption was in the initial boot block (the first dozen lines of code on the chip) and since all Onkyo's/Integra's have the same boot block info, I was able to rebuild it and use the fixed version to fix both systems. I have since learned a lot more about these NAND's and have come to the conclusion that the code is so complicated it isn't worth the time to figure it all out.



Sorry,
Todd

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post #2795 of 2798 Old 07-08-2019, 05:53 PM
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Unfortunately the only way I have found is the replace it as the last resort. The symptoms of failure are identical to the DSP "no boot". If I have confirmed the voltages, installed a new chip and confirmed that it is properly seated and the system won't boot, the last resort is to install a new firmware chip.


When I go to read them after pulling them off they still have code on them but when i compare the contents to a good NAND, I will see 100's of thousands of mis-compares. This is kind of expected since both chips would have different bad blocks but it also makes it almost impossible to figure out where the corruption is.
Jeez Todd, your dedication astounds me!

I might give it one last go re-heating the chip. If the DTS boots successfully, does this indicate that the firmware is not corrupt? Or should I just try to get it to boot and flash new firmware if I can?
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post #2796 of 2798 Old 07-08-2019, 06:41 PM
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Jeez Todd, your dedication astounds me!

I might give it one last go re-heating the chip. If the DTS boots successfully, does this indicate that the firmware is not corrupt? Or should I just try to get it to boot and flash new firmware if I can?

If it boots, you are good and can be assured that the firmware is ok.
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post #2797 of 2798 Old 08-19-2019, 03:55 AM
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You can try but note that I have purchased over 30 chips from AliExpress (as well as Alibaba) and 100% were bad. In the case of the "B Rev" chips, the Ali vendors simply reball them and sell them as new but these chips are still faulty and will wear out. Since there is no way to tell how many hours they have on them, they may last a couple of years or a couple of weeks (or sometimes, won't work at all). On the "D Rev" parts (even the 500Mhz in your link) what I most often see is that the Ali vendors scrape the logo's off the top and reprint them. Since the chip is actually either an XD part or a "B Rev" part you will have issues.


The only reliable source I have found for these chips is to buy broken Onkyo/Integra boards from eBay, remove the chips and reball them.


HTH
Todd
Hi Todd!


do you know this chip provider?
https://www.win-source.net/hot-sales...k013dzkb5.html


all best
Stephan
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post #2798 of 2798 Old 08-19-2019, 05:51 AM
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Hi Todd!


do you know this chip provider?
https://www.win-source.net/hot-sales...k013dzkb5.html


all best
Stephan

I have not used this company.
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