The official Auro 3D thread (home theater version) - Page 163 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4861 of 6425 Old 06-14-2017, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
So did I.

It turns out that despite referring to radial elevation for height speakers throughout the whole document, the table in section 3.4.2 refers to lateral elvation. I started to suspect something like that, so I checked it with them and this was confirmed to be right, with the remark that it is indeed confusing and they will address it internally with the department that wrote the document...
Aha, so i was right. In section 2.2 and the drawing there, i can understand they meant radial elevation, but from 3.2 forward they all seem to show lateral. That why i got so confused when you started speaking radial.

Doesn't this make the tops/top surround closer to overlap more, as i stated with my pic?

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post #4862 of 6425 Old 06-14-2017, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Aha, so i was right. In section 2.2 and the drawing there, i can understand they meant radial elevation, but from 3.2 forward they all seem to show lateral. That why i got so confused when you started speaking radial.
Sorry for that, I know I can be quite convincing, even when I'm wrong... LOL

Quote:
Doesn't this make the tops/top surround closer to overlap more, as i stated with my pic?
Closer yes, but still no overlap following specs for lateral elevation: Atmos: 45 +10/-15 degrees; Auro3D: 65 +/- 7.5 degrees.

A good idea and understanding lies at the base of every successful project.

Last edited by maikeldepotter; 06-18-2017 at 04:11 PM.
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post #4863 of 6425 Old 06-14-2017, 12:29 PM
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One can wonder on just how bad 56.25degrees would be.

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post #4864 of 6425 Old 06-14-2017, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
Sorry for that, I know I can be quite convincing, even when I'm wrong... LOL
Yes, i really need to re-evaluate my thrust in you, LOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
Closer yes, but still no overlap following specs for lateral elevation: Atmos: 45 +/- 10 degrees; Auro3D: 65 +/- 7.5 degrees.
Actually look at the Atmos (cinema) drawing again: it says "greater than or equal to 45' +(E/2)". That would probably translate to at least 50 degres, but yes still out of spec.

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One can wonder on just how bad 56.25degrees would be.
I think it would be bad. We need to seek perfection here

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post #4865 of 6425 Old 06-14-2017, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post
One can wonder on just how bad 56.25degrees would be.
Well, like I suggested earlier, with surrounds at 5-10 degrees lateral elevation, you can put the Atmos tops from 47.5-50 up to 60? degrees lateral. So you do have some overlap between Atmos and Auro3D tops (57.5-65 degrees), if you don't mind breaking Dolby's "surrounds at ear level" rule. I - amongst many here - don't. ..

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Last edited by maikeldepotter; 11-01-2017 at 07:40 AM.
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post #4866 of 6425 Old 06-14-2017, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
I think it would be bad. We need to seek perfection here
You won't find it here. Surround formats wrongly defined for that.

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post #4867 of 6425 Old 06-14-2017, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
So did I.

It turns out that despite referring to radial elevation for height speakers throughout the whole document, the table in section 3.4.2 refers to lateral elvation. I started to suspect something like that, so I checked it with them and this was confirmed to be right, with the remark that it is indeed confusing and they will address it internally with the department that wrote the document...

BTW: would this new information make this ' sweet spot' any different:

Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
Using the knowledge and educated estimations brought up in the discussion above, I have tried to formulate a 'rule of thumb' for determining the size of the prime seating area when using 4 Auro3D Top Speakers in rooms with relative low ceilings (up to 10 feet high):

1. Put the Top Speakers in a square with a side length that equals the vertical ear-speaker distance (v)
2. The resulting sweet listening area is centered below this square and measures: 1.5*v x 2.0*v (W x L)


...

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post #4868 of 6425 Old 06-15-2017, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
BTW: would this new information make this ' sweet spot' any different:
Not at all. If - what you normally would do - you position the MLP in the middle of this 'sweet area', the azimuth values are spot-on (45 and 135 degrees) and the lateral elevation is with 63.4 degrees very close to the ideal 65 degrees.

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post #4869 of 6425 Old 06-15-2017, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
Not at all. If - what you normally would do - you position the MLP in the middle of this 'sweet area', the azimuth values are spot-on (45 and 135 degrees) and the lateral elevation is with 63.4 degrees very close to the ideal 65 degrees.
Well, there you go

Thanks

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post #4870 of 6425 Old 06-16-2017, 02:14 AM
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For the record

I corrected 6 of my posts on page 161 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post53507865), starting with:
This post is corrected after confirmation by AuroTechnologies that the elevation values in the table (Attachment 2177114) refer to lateral elevations, and not radial elevations which is used in the same document to describe for the position of height speakers, hence the confusion which is hereby resolved.
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post #4871 of 6425 Old 06-16-2017, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
I corrected 6 of my posts on page 161 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post53507865), starting with:
This post is corrected after confirmation by AuroTechnologies that the elevation values in the table (Attachment 2177114) refer to lateral elevations, and not radial elevations which is used in the same document to describe for the position of height speakers, hence the confusion which is hereby resolved.
Good man

I'll see if i can perform a test of 1 vs 2 vs 4 Auro top surrounds this weekend.
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post #4872 of 6425 Old 06-19-2017, 06:11 PM
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I did some test this weekend, read in my thread :

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/29-wha...l#post53750305

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post #4873 of 6425 Old 06-20-2017, 08:39 AM
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Question, if I wanted to run 11.1 AURO 3D would I use the same center channel for the front height center as my main center? I'd be using a KEF Q650c. Or can I use a KEF Q150 for the front height center?


Thank you for any help you can give!!


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post #4874 of 6425 Old 06-20-2017, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Tka7 View Post
Question, if I wanted to run 11.1 AURO 3D would I use the same center channel for the front height center as my main center? I'd be using a KEF Q650c. Or can I use a KEF Q150 for the front height center?


Thank you for any help you can give!!


Joe
Although Auro has 11.1, only high-end AVR/AVP's have that(center height). Most consumer level have 10.1, so no center height.

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post #4875 of 6425 Old 06-21-2017, 02:04 AM
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Technically Roger didn't use a mono signal, did he?
Just playing DSU with a 5.1 movie source. DSU extracts uncorrelated sounds from the source channels, but it appeared that the rear pair and front pair of height outputs had a lot of commonality, and hence they are correlated.
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post #4876 of 6425 Old 06-27-2017, 03:21 AM
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"Cloudboy" will be released in Cinema 5th April (Belgium, I don't know the release date in Sweden). This is a mainly Swedish spoken film, with some Flemmish. It will be subtitled here and have English subtitles when it will have its International premiere at Toronto Kids festival.
More info here:
http://cloudboy.bulletproofcupid.be/site/
http://www.tiff.net/films/cloudboy/

BluRay release will be at a later date.

Cheers,

Thierry
Any more news about bluray release and if it will have Auro 11.1?

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post #4877 of 6425 Old 06-27-2017, 05:04 AM
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Any more news about bluray release and if it will have Auro 11.1?
No release date and details yet for the BluRay. I'll post something when there is news.
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post #4878 of 6425 Old 06-27-2017, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rerecmixer View Post
No release date and details yet for the BluRay. I'll post something when there is news.
Great, thanks

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post #4879 of 6425 Old 07-06-2017, 09:18 AM
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2018 Considerations

I have been told that the 2018 version of the Denon flagship AVR (7300?) will have Auro 3D included at no extra cost. If that is true, I will probably want to experiment with Auro 3D as it is highly likely I will purchase that AVR.

I have also been told that the 7300? will be able to process 13 channels, which means I will be adding two more ceiling speakers for a total of 6. The two speakers will be added over the surround speakers and on each side of the fan in the picture I have attached.

So the question is, where will I put the VOG? The obvious solution is to move the fan, however, I may not be able to get that one past the love of my life , although I do have six months to work on it.

Another question is how will I hook-up the VOG speaker? The latest iteration of a Denon AVR, the 6300, allows for hook-up to a sub-woofer(SW) plug or a rear surround speaker. I have already split the two SW plugs on my Denon 5200 (4sws); anymore splits gets awkward. If I use the rear surround plug, it is not clear to me how I would then use a 7.1 set-up or in my case 7.4.4.

I assume there are some simple solutions for my queries. I just want to be ready with answers when the time comes.

note: the fan is directly above the middle seat on the couch

Regards
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post #4880 of 6425 Old 07-10-2017, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alanlee View Post
I have been told that the 2018 version of the Denon flagship AVR (7300?) will have Auro 3D included at no extra cost. If that is true, I will probably want to experiment with Auro 3D as it is highly likely I will purchase that AVR.

I have also been told that the 7300? will be able to process 13 channels, which means I will be adding two more ceiling speakers for a total of 6. The two speakers will be added over the surround speakers and on each side of the fan in the picture I have attached.

So the question is, where will I put the VOG? The obvious solution is to move the fan, however, I may not be able to get that one past the love of my life , although I do have six months to work on it.

Another question is how will I hook-up the VOG speaker? The latest iteration of a Denon AVR, the 6300, allows for hook-up to a sub-woofer(SW) plug or a rear surround speaker. I have already split the two SW plugs on my Denon 5200 (4sws); anymore splits gets awkward. If I use the rear surround plug, it is not clear to me how I would then use a 7.1 set-up or in my case 7.4.4.

I assume there are some simple solutions for my queries. I just want to be ready with answers when the time comes.

note: the fan is directly above the middle seat on the couch

Regards
Alanlee

Just an idea concernig the VOG.
Most people do not use the light in the fan, use that and mount a concentric speaker in the light spot and your ready to go VOG
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post #4881 of 6425 Old 07-10-2017, 08:22 AM
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Nieuw VOG setup

I made a new VOG setup.
After some time did not like the way it was with my "lamp" setup, a concentric speaker build in a lamp (see pic).
With the new setup i have a wider VOG with a Magnat Needle Sat speaker on both sides, and straight above the seats 2 Magnat Neos tweeters.
The Needle Sat has its own filter, for the 2 tweeters i use the Magnat Neos Tower filter, just the tweeter part ......

I used the pole of a roomdivider were also inside the speaker cables run.
This pole can be fitted easy between the floor and ceiling by turning the bolts so it will fit.
The crossbar is a peace of U shaped aluminum so i can easy hide the wires.
The 2 Sats and 2 tweeters are in a serial connection so i have 2 wires, one for the 2 tweeters and one for the 2 Sat speakers.
Then these 2 wires are connected parralel so i end up with one wire to an external amp.

I this situation a far better effect then with the lamp........
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post #4882 of 6425 Old 07-10-2017, 08:40 AM
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Is it not strange that Auro will work with a Top Surround but not with Top Front and Top Rear ?
At least, not on the SR7011, here i can only use Front and Rear Height or Surround Height, but no Tops with Top Surround
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post #4883 of 6425 Old 07-10-2017, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
Is it not strange that Auro will work with a Top Surround but not with Top Front and Top Rear ?
At least, not on the SR7011, here i can only use Front and Rear Height or Surround Height, but no Tops with Top Surround
Why so especially considering that Auro 3D only configures for one in-ceiling speaker (ie. Voice of God)?
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post #4884 of 6425 Old 07-10-2017, 10:41 AM
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Just an idea concernig the VOG.
Most people do not use the light in the fan, use that and mount a concentric speaker in the light spot and your ready to go VOG
Ahh - excellent idea. I will look into it.

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post #4885 of 6425 Old 07-10-2017, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Why so especially considering that Auro 3D only configures for one in-ceiling speaker (ie. Voice of God)?
Another idea I had for VOG: If I were to mount two more ceiling speakers (see post 4880 this thread), I could install a toggle to two external amps. One side of toggle would be for center height, and the other would be to the rear surround split for VOG. When using Auro 3D toggle to rear surround, and when using Atmos, toggle to center height. My AVR does not support DTS X so I am not sure how that would be configured.

I guess the reason I am interested in the VOG is that since my mother drug me off to church when I was an infant, I have been waiting for God to speak to me. So far no communication with that deity. I am curious as to what the VOG has to say.
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post #4886 of 6425 Old 07-10-2017, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Why so especially considering that Auro 3D only configures for one in-ceiling speaker (ie. Voice of God)?

I do not understand.
I can not get Top Front and Top Rear for Auro.
So why will Auro do just Top Surround, Front and Rear Height, and not TS, TF, TR ?
Or am i missing something ?
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post #4887 of 6425 Old 07-10-2017, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
I do not understand.
I can not get Top Front and Top Rear for Auro.
So why will Auro do just Top Surround, Front and Rear Height, and not TS, TF, TR ?
Or am i missing something ?
Top Front and Top Rear are not standard Auro 3D speaker configurations whereas Front Height and Surround Height are standard Auro 3D speaker configurations. As Denon/Marantz models don't use Surround Height for any other surround mode except Auro 3D, a special firmware update was released that allows using the Rear Height speaker setting instead of the Surround Height setting, thus allowing the Front Height + Rear Height configuration to be used with all three 3D Immersion technologies (Atmos, DTS:X, Auro 3D).
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post #4888 of 6425 Old 07-11-2017, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Top Front and Top Rear are not standard Auro 3D speaker configurations whereas Front Height and Surround Height are standard Auro 3D speaker configurations. As Denon/Marantz models don't use Surround Height for any other surround mode except Auro 3D, a special firmware update was released that allows using the Rear Height speaker setting instead of the Surround Height setting, thus allowing the Front Height + Rear Height configuration to be used with all three 3D Immersion technologies (Atmos, DTS:X, Auro 3D).
Hi JD,
and this is exact what i mean, a bit shortsighted of Auro that do incloud a "ceiling" speaker in the setup as VOG, the TS, but left out the other ceiling speakers and so blocking the road for users with only ceiling speaker for immersive effects, that comes from the ceiling

I asked this because a co-worker has a TF and TR setup and wants to buy the Auro upgrade for the use of TS (VOG).
I told him this was not possible (at the moment) but would ask to be sure.
Now i am, but find this a strange thing in the Auro setup, not using TF and TR.
This guy is not willing to start using more speakers then he has now, as the only way the get VOG is put more speakers up there.
We can do a kind of combinations with a mix of Top and Height speakers a user want, exept when the TS comes into play.
Hope (for him and others) that Auro and/or D&M will correct this soon.
Think this will open the market for Auro a bit more......

Last edited by CBdicX; 07-11-2017 at 12:07 AM.
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post #4889 of 6425 Old 07-11-2017, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
Hi JD,
and this is exact what i mean, a bit shortsighted of Auro that do incloud a "ceiling" speaker in the setup as VOG, the TS, but left out the other ceiling speakers and so blocking the road for users with only ceiling speaker for immersive effects, that comes from the ceiling

I asked this because a co-worker has a TF and TR setup and wants to buy the Auro upgrade for the use of TS (VOG).
I told him this was not possible (at the moment) but would ask to be sure.
Now i am, but find this a strange thing in the Auro setup, not using TF and TR.
This guy is not willing to start using more speakers then he has now, as the only way the get VOG is put more speakers up there.
We can do a kind of combinations with a mix of Top and Height speakers a user want, exept when the TS comes into play.
Hope (for him and others) that Auro and/or D&M will correct this soon.
Think this will open the market for Auro a bit more......
Unless he has them very widely spread, he probably should use both TF and TR as VOG. The middle layer in Atmos should not be from Top speakers, but high-on-wall speakers.

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post #4890 of 6425 Old 07-11-2017, 12:33 AM
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Unless he has them very widely spread, he probably should use both TF and TR as VOG. The middle layer in Atmos should not be from Top speakers, but high-on-wall speakers.

Thanks for your input.
I have sent Auro the request to use also TF and TR with TS at the same time, just like they did with the FH and SH, and made also RH possible.
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