The official Auro 3D thread (home theater version) - Page 168 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5011 of 6354 Old 10-06-2017, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
Not sure if this was already posted in this thread:

From page 8 of the February 2017 Widescreen Review magazine:


This opens up the possibility for Yamaha to start including Auro3D on their AVRs/processors.

Always good to have competition, it stops brands (aka D&M) from falling asleep
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post #5012 of 6354 Old 10-06-2017, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
Not sure if this was already posted in this thread:

From page 8 of the February 2017 Widescreen Review magazine:


This opens up the possibility for Yamaha to start including Auro3D on their AVRs/processors.
Wow, now wouldn’t that be something ?!?

Exiting times, indeed

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post #5013 of 6354 Old 10-06-2017, 02:10 PM
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1000 euro cheaper then the Marantz AV8802, 3 colors, and a 11 channel power amp to dirive it all.
The MX A5000 a 1000 euro more then a MM8807 but 4 channels more.
Think a great combo deal !!
Now please incloude Auro Yamaha............

https://nl.yamaha.com/nl/products/au...0_g/index.html

https://nl.yamaha.com/nl/products/au...000/index.html
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post #5014 of 6354 Old 10-06-2017, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
An other advice please.


I received my MM7055 a few minutes ago
I can do 2 things:


1) Fronts as Bi-wire to the MM with Center (5 channels)


2) Fronts standard 1 wire, Center and Surround to the MM (5 channels)


Thanks....

With a 5CH amp, for option (1) you mean "Bi-amp"; although regardless, not likely to be more beneficial than would be option (2).
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post #5015 of 6354 Old 10-06-2017, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Agreed.

Look, on D&M products it could be solved rather easy: when i comes to heights you have two options (disregarding the option with just two overhead speakers)

4 heights. This means no VOG in Auro, but of course 7.1.4 in Atmos/DTS:X, and as of today, 5.1.4 in Auro. This COULD be the 7.1.4 Auro option with SB, since it wouldn’t violate the DSP limit.
5 heights. This mean VOG In Auro, and of course no SB(in Auro). Fine, let that option be, as you then have chosen the VOG.

That way, the choises seem more logical.

Auro them selves say that VOG is not important, and even i would choose SB over VOG.
Exactly.

CBdicX, unfortunately you interpreting 2 subwoofers outputs as 2 channels, but this is ONE LFE channel split on two outputs. VOG only borrowing one output, but need to be processed as any other channel by the processor.

So, as Nalleh said.
Will be 2 options.
7+4, no VOG.
5+4 with VOG.
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Last edited by raf77; 10-06-2017 at 03:30 PM.
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post #5016 of 6354 Old 10-06-2017, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
This opens up the possibility for Yamaha to start including Auro3D on their AVRs/processors.
Despite the somewhat NorthAmericaCentric nature of this forum, it's worth remembering that mass-market AVR manufacturers like Yamaha are dealing with a global marketplace: it seems possible to me that Yamaha etc. might better focus more this|next year on the timing|inclusion of MPEG-H 3D Audio decoders in their South Korea variant AVR models to match the roll-out of ATSC 3.0 there in 2017.


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post #5017 of 6354 Old 10-06-2017, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by raf77 View Post
Exactly.

CBdicX, unfortunately you interpreting 2 subwoofers outputs as 2 channels, but this is ONE LFE channel split on two outputs. VOG only borrowing one output, but need to be processed as any other channel by the processor.

So, as Nalleh said.
Will be 2 options.
7+4, no VOG.
5+4 with VOG.

If SUB1 and SUB2 is one channel but split in two, how can it be possible to send a Full Range processed signal for SUB2 VOG, and a <250 Hz signal for SUB1 LFE ?
So if you process the VOG SUB2 this would also do something with SUB1 if this is one channel.
The receiver can not do a xover on one channel for two "speakers" where one wants >250 Hz (the sub) and one wants Full Range with a xover of say 110 Hz.
I think this can only be done if SUB1 and SUB2 are to seperated channels.


If not, how will this work then, please explain so i can gif this a rest....... ?
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post #5018 of 6354 Old 10-06-2017, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
I would try option 2) first, and only if you notice your fronts having difficulty with higher SPLs (e.g. because they have to handle LFE) switch to option 1) and see if that helps.

Would it make sence to do it like this:

option 2 but the woofers of the Fronts on the MM and the tweeter/mid on the 7011 ?
Then i have a "real" (well, not realy but a passive) Bi-amp setup, not because it must be Bi-amp, but i have the wires, so.......
The Fronts are on the MM now connected through the FL/FR pre-outs 7011 with a High-Low speaker bridge, now the 7011 is doing nothing for the Fronts.
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post #5019 of 6354 Old 10-07-2017, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
Would it make sence to do it like this: option 2 but the woofers of the Fronts on the MM and the tweeter/mid on the 7011
No, not in my book. I do not think it is a good idea to use different power amps for bi-amping.

Quote:
Then i have a "real" (well, not realy but a passive) Bi-amp setup, not because it must be Bi-amp, but i have the wires, so.......
I can only give you the advice I already gave you: Don't bi-amp unless it makes your speaker sound noticeably better.

Quote:
now the 7011 is doing nothing for the Fronts.
So what? Didn't you not just purchase a separate 5 channel power amp because you found the AVR amp was underperforming?

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post #5020 of 6354 Old 10-07-2017, 03:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
If SUB1 and SUB2 is one channel but split in two, how can it be possible to send a Full Range processed signal for SUB2 VOG, and a <250 Hz signal for SUB1 LFE ?
So if you process the VOG SUB2 this would also do something with SUB1 if this is one channel.
The receiver can not do a xover on one channel for two "speakers" where one wants >250 Hz (the sub) and one wants Full Range with a xover of say 110 Hz.
I think this can only be done if SUB1 and SUB2 are to seperated channels.

If not, how will this work then, please explain so i can gif this a rest....... ?t
Ok, I wil give it a try...

The number of physical output connectors on your AVR does not determine the number of discrete channels it can deliver. The number if discrete channels it can deliver depends on the capability of the so-called DSP (digital surround processing) chip inside your AVR, which handles the decoding. Most current DSP chips max out at 11.1 channels. Depending on the AVR/processor however, post-processing can be applied to those max 11.1 channel feeds, which ranges from simple copying (like with your dual SUB output connectors) to more advanced matrixing (e.g. DataSat, Lyngdorf, StormAudio processors). This is why there can be more physical output connectors on the back side of your AVR, than discrete channel feeds it can ever produce, no matter what software upgrade.

Hope this helps.

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Last edited by maikeldepotter; 10-08-2017 at 01:45 AM.
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post #5021 of 6354 Old 10-07-2017, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
No, not in my book. I do not think it is a good idea to use different power amps for bi-amping.
I can only give you the advice I already gave you: Don't bi-amp unless it makes your speaker sound noticeably better.
So what? Didn't you not just purchase a separate 5 channel power amp because you found the AVR amp was underperforming?

I know of people Bi-amping with (very) different amps, a Tube amp for High and a Integrated for Low.
So i wanted to use the MM for the more demanding woofers (on paper 17 Hz, 330 Watt RMS), and as it is doing nothing the 7011 for the far less demanding Mid/Highs, so all the power of the MM can go to woofers.
The underperforming part of the 7011 will be driving the woofers of the fronts, they do a lot of work as i do not use a subwoofer and want this part to be as distortion free as possible.
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post #5022 of 6354 Old 10-07-2017, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
I know of people Bi-amping with (very) different amps, a Tube amp for High and a Integrated for Low.
Yes, but for such combination you will need a processor that can separately steer those two different power amps. I assumed you AVR cannot do such thing, but I may be mistaken. Maybe someone with hands-on experience with such bi-amping (which I am not) can chime in?

Quote:
So i wanted to use the MM for the more demanding woofers (on paper 17 Hz, 330 Watt RMS), and as it is doing nothing the 7011 for the far less demanding Mid/Highs, so all the power of the MM can go to woofers.
Makes sense.

Quote:
The underperforming part of the 7011 will be driving the woofers of the fronts, they do a lot of work as i do not use a subwoofer and want this part to be as distortion free as possible.
That I understand.

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post #5023 of 6354 Old 10-07-2017, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
Ok, I wil give it a try...

The number of physical output connectors on your AVR does not determine the number of discrete channels it can deliver. The number if discrete channels it can deliver depends on the capability of the so-called DSP (digital surround processing) chip inside your AVR, which handles the decoding. Most current DSP chips max out at 11.1 channels. Depending on the AVR/processor however, post-processing can be applied to those max 11.1 channel feeds, which ranges from simple copying (like with your dual SUB output connectors) to more advanced matrixing (e.g. DataSat, Lyngdorf, StormAudio processors). This is why there can be more physical output connectors on the back side of your AVR, than discrete channel feeds it can actually produce.

Hope this helps.

Not 100%


I was asking this only for the split Sub1 and Sub2.


1) How can it be possible to feed a <250 Hz LFE signal, and a VOG processed signal through the same channel ?


2) Will the LFE signal be filtered out by the VOG speaker, and the Full Range signal filterd out by the subwoofer ?


3) So in the case of the use of a VOG on Sub2, the signal to Sub2 and Sub1 is a Full Range signal, and with the use of 1 or 2 subs a <250 Hz LFE signal ?


Sorry for picking your brain until it hurts.........
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post #5024 of 6354 Old 10-07-2017, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
Yes, but for such combination you will need a processor that can separately steer those two different power amps. I assumed you AVR cannot do such thing, but I may be mistaken. Maybe someone with hands-on experience with such bi-amping (which I am not) can chime in?
Is your concers with the use of the MM for woofers and the 7011 for Mid/High that the volume level of the 2 will not be the same ?
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post #5025 of 6354 Old 10-07-2017, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
Not 100%


I was asking this only for the split Sub1 and Sub2.


1) How can it be possible to feed a <250 Hz LFE signal, and a VOG processed signal through the same channel ?
Basically in the same way both ice cold water and hot water can run through the same tap. In your case the processor selects one or the other: VOG or sub signal.

Quote:
2) Will the LFE signal be filtered out by the VOG speaker, and the Full Range signal filterd out by the subwoofer ?
No. Only one of those signals leaves the output connector.

Quote:
3) So in the case of the use of a VOG on Sub2, the signal to Sub2 and Sub1 is a Full Range signal, and with the use of 1 or 2 subs a <250 Hz LFE signal ?
VOG on Sub2 wil only be a full range VOG signal if you have turned off bass management.


Quote:
Sorry for picking your brain until it hurts.........
I appreciate your compassion LOL
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post #5026 of 6354 Old 10-07-2017, 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
Is your concers with the use of the MM for woofers and the 7011 for Mid/High that the volume level of the 2 will not be the same ?
SPL balance across the cross-over point, yes. But again, I am not the hands-on expert here...

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post #5027 of 6354 Old 10-07-2017, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
SPL balance across the cross-over point, yes. But again, I not the hands-on expert here...
Could i do a dB test signal messure with the fronts connected to the MM, and then a messure connected to the MM and 7011, and see if there is a differents in dB's ?


EDIT
did a messure on the 75 dB test point, and in both versions the SPL in the MLP was exact the same 72.2 dB.
So i think i'm ok with the MM - 7011 "Bi-amp" option.
The cost is 0 euro, i have the wires (100% OFC for the woofers and Zilver-Copper for Mid/Tweeters) so i am ready to play some bagpipe music

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post #5028 of 6354 Old 10-07-2017, 06:46 PM
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Are there any Auro samples available for download on the web? Or is the best bet to contact Auro direct and ask for a sample disc?
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post #5029 of 6354 Old 10-07-2017, 11:48 PM
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Are there any Auro samples available for download on the web? Or is the best bet to contact Auro direct and ask for a sample disc?
You can ask Auro, but i asked for the new 2017 vol 2 disk, never received one, just that they are waiting for new disks to arrive, but this is 4-5 month ago, think i will never get one from them.........


Here a link to the Vol 2 demo disk, i never could vind a way to download from this site, maybe someone else did and can help ?


http://www.demo-world.eu/2017/06/13/...on-disc-vol-2/
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post #5030 of 6354 Old 10-08-2017, 03:57 AM
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Just click on the Auro pic to download.

http://www.demo-world.eu/download-2d...video_2017.jpg
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post #5031 of 6354 Old 10-08-2017, 04:35 AM
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Thanks @Nalleh for the link, 397Mb with latest additions. The complete one could be done same way in pieces, I believe.
Let me ask one question for my setting: actually trying to identify best placement for 4 Klipsch CP-6 as heights. I am replacing 4 less less big old Philips rectangular ones, horizontally oriented towards Mlp, always on ceiling. I could mount the FH Klipsch more backward, close to the front wall (in line with Tv set, and behind projection screen, when unrolled!), in this way the angle with the Mlp should be around 20°. Will I proceed ? Shall I have to be at 25° at least?
Thanks for your interest
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post #5032 of 6354 Old 10-08-2017, 05:21 AM
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Thanks @Nalleh for the link, 397Mb with latest additions. The complete one could be done same way in pieces, I believe.

You can click away you want on the pics or page, nothing is going to start a download for the Vol 2 version
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post #5033 of 6354 Old 10-08-2017, 06:19 AM
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Yesss ... this is clearly stated at the upper side of the page:
http://www.demo-world.eu/demo-dvds/
What Nalleh signalled is at the trailers page, 2D section:
http://www.demo-world.eu/2d-demo-trailers-hd/


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post #5034 of 6354 Old 10-08-2017, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by vn800art View Post
Yesss ... this is clearly stated at the upper side of the page:
http://www.demo-world.eu/demo-dvds/
What Nalleh signalled is at the trailers page, 2D section:
http://www.demo-world.eu/2d-demo-trailers-hd/


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Correct, and this is the 2014 demo disc:

http://www.demo-world.eu/download-2d...tion_video.jpg


These clips aren’t the whole demo disc, but the long demo clip from the discs, but it is still very cool Auro demos

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post #5035 of 6354 Old 10-09-2017, 04:09 AM
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Received reply from Auro concerning Surround Back in Auro 3D.


This is not going to happen in 11 channel receivers, just like some of you allready told (me).
So if this is a big deal in Auro use, we must wait until 13 channel receivers come to the audio world.
Think this will not be soon as all newcomers 2017/2018 are 11 channel.......
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post #5036 of 6354 Old 10-09-2017, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
Received reply from Auro concerning Surround Back in Auro 3D.


This is not going to happen in 11 channel receivers, just like some of you allready told (me).
So if this is a big deal in Auro use, we must wait until 13 channel receivers come to the audio world.
Think this will not be soon as all newcomers 2017/2018 are 11 channel.......
Would the new Emotiva be considered 11 channel in this perspective? If they solve the business end of the deal, that is. (and yes, I know that's not a receiver...)

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post #5037 of 6354 Old 10-09-2017, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
Received reply from Auro concerning Surround Back in Auro 3D.

This is not going to happen in 11 channel receivers, just like some of you allready told (me).
So if this is a big deal in Auro use, we must wait until 13 channel receivers come to the audio world.
Think this will not be soon as all newcomers 2017/2018 are 11 channel.......
If AuroTechnologies was NOT referring to users with 11 channel receivers, to which "Auro users" with a "7.1/11.1 system" they were referring to? Or did they just stop "being quite busy" looking for a Surround Back solution for this group of users?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
We are very well aware of the importance of Surround Back channels for Auro users with a 7.1/11.1 system. We are quite busy looking at ways how we can roll-out a solution for this problem.
Or maybe they were called to order by D&M, who wants to reserve such software update for their coming 13.1 products...

Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
I wonder what their ETA is for rolling out this solution, and if it will happen before the release of the D&M's 13.1 capable AVRs/processors. But from a marketing/sales perspective, I can imagine D&M wanting to make such such solution exclusive to their new product line.
EDIT: Or maybe they didn't actually say what @CBdicX was suggesting with his interpretation of their answer .... (see posts below)

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Last edited by maikeldepotter; 10-09-2017 at 12:41 PM.
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post #5038 of 6354 Old 10-09-2017, 09:46 AM
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Where to put my FH?!
I can add a photo in which at the upper right you find a white rectangle, there is the point. But 20° angle to the Mlp. Will go now to the basement and add actual angle to Mlp from little speaker that can be seen in upper left.

Inviato dal mio ASUS_Z00AD utilizzando Tapatalk
Edit: so the actual angle of the little speaker is 33°. I am satisfied from what I hear out of the heights atm, especially from the moment I had put them horizontally ( see photo). Newer ones are much bigger, and Klipsch, so more efficient and I do not want them to overcome ground ones (this doesn't refer to the fronts - Cornwalls -, but to the other surrounds which are 4 Wharfedale 9.1). This particularly when listening to music.
Some hints? Suggestions?
Thanks

Marantz Sr7011, Galactron Mk10b, Pioneer VsxLx50. Klipsch Cornwall, Wharfedale 9.1, Klipsch CP-6. Sony UbpX800, Lg Up970, Hisense 55M5500. 110 inches rolling screen, excelvan cl720d.

Last edited by vn800art; 10-09-2017 at 10:47 AM.
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post #5039 of 6354 Old 10-09-2017, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
If AuroTechnologies was NOT referring to users with 11 channel receivers, to which "Auro users" with a "7.1/11.1 system" they were referring to? Or did they just stop "being quite busy" looking for a Surround Back solution for this group of users?
Or maybe they were called to order by D&M, who wants to reserve such software update for their coming 13.1 products...

Here the original question and Auro reply, and Google Translate:

My question:

u bent op de hoogte van de Surround Back wens in Auro 3D en ik heb van u vernomen dat Auro naar een oplossing zoekt.
Wat voor mij persoonlijk Auro boven de 2 andere systemen zet is het gebruik van VOG.
Zou het mogelijk zijn om binnen 3D zowel SB en VOG te gebruiken in een 11 kanaal receiver ?

You are aware of the Surround Back wish in Auro 3D and I have heard that Auro is looking for a solution.
What I personally like in Auro over the other 2 systems is the use of VOG.
Could it be possible to use both SB and VOG within a 11 channel receiver in 3D ?


Auro answer:

De Auro 13.1 configuratie bestaat uit een 7.1 low layer (met stereo surround backs dus), een 5.1 height layer en een VOG kanaal, deze configuratie is spijtig genoeg niet mogelijk met de Marantz 7011 daar deze max 11 kanalen ondersteunt. Momenteel zal het met deze receiver dus niet mogelijk zijn om back surround(-s) aan te sturen.

The Auro 13.1 configuration consists of a 7.1 low layer (with stereo surround backs), a 5.1 height layer and a VOG channel. Unfortunately, this configuration is not possible with the Marantz 7011 as it supports up to 11 channels. At this time, this receiver will not be able to control back surround (-s).



If i understand this answer correct Auro 3D with SB and VOG will not be possible in a 11 channel reciever, so think its the wait for a 13 channel receiver, or am i mistaken ?
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post #5040 of 6354 Old 10-09-2017, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
Here the original question and Auro reply, and Google Translate:

My question:You are aware of the Surround Back wish in Auro 3D and I have heard that Auro is looking for a solution.
What I personally like in Auro over the other 2 systems is the use of VOG.
Could it be possible to use both SB and VOG within a 11 channel receiver in 3D ?

Auro answer:The Auro 13.1 configuration consists of a 7.1 low layer (with stereo surround backs), a 5.1 height layer and a VOG channel. Unfortunately, this configuration is not possible with the Marantz 7011 as it supports up to 11 channels. At this time, this receiver will not be able to control back surround (-s).

If i understand this answer correct Auro 3D with SB and VOG will not be possible in a 11 channel reciever, so think its the wait for a 13 channel receiver, or am i mistaken ?
So the answer is "no VOG together with SBs on a 11.1 receiver". That we all knew already, since we all can count:
7 base + 4 heights = 11 + 1 VOG = 12 > 11.

But what you said was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
Received reply from Auro concerning Surround Back in Auro 3D.This is not going to happen in 11 channel receivers, just like some of you allready told (me).
That's not the same, is it? Their actual answer to your actual question does not indicate that they have stopped working on finding a solution to enable Surround Backs on 11.1 receivers, does it?

It seems that their replies to your questions show more consistency than your interpretations ...

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