The official Auro 3D thread (home theater version) - Page 176 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5251 of 6539 Old 02-14-2018, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Rgarc View Post
If you are going to go Auro 3d; you need a compatible receiver with at least 9 channels. The price jump from 7 to 9 channels is about $500 to $600+ (US). If you are in the United States, the low adoption rate is also prohibitive. You could buy a feburbished Denon receiver with Auro 3D compatibility for under $1000 if they have any available. I was getting excited about building an Auro 3D set up as well until my geographic reality set in and found that the other emmersive audio formats just made more sense where I live and would save me a least a couple hundred dollars.
Thanks Rgarc. that's also an important factor. No one seems to be using auro here in the states as much.

Is the sound quality of 3d immersiveness SIGNIFICANTLY better than dolby atmos processing?
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post #5252 of 6539 Old 02-14-2018, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mystickid View Post
Is the sound quality of 3d immersiveness SIGNIFICANTLY better than dolby atmos processing?
3D immersiveness? Maybe. Discrete 3D rendering? No.
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post #5253 of 6539 Old 02-14-2018, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mystickid View Post
Is the sound quality of 3d immersiveness SIGNIFICANTLY better than dolby atmos processing?
Regarding MLP only or across more seats?

Edit: Just added Dark Tower to my Auro3D BluRay collection.

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post #5254 of 6539 Old 02-15-2018, 05:07 AM
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Hoot, looks like soon I’ll have my Auro-3D demo disc!!
Looking forward to experiencing Auro-3D first hand.



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post #5255 of 6539 Old 02-15-2018, 06:52 AM
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Denon/Marantz 2016 models would give you a low $$ starting point. 4300h and 7011 for example (depending if you listen to more movies or music, respectively).
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Marantz Sr7011, Galactron Mk10b, Pioneer VsxLx50, Behringer NU3000dsp. Klipsch Cornwall, Wharfedale 9.1, Klipsch CP-6, 4xJblCS1214 in 2 double boxes, V.B.S.S. with Dayton PA460-8. Sony UbpX800, Lg Up970, Nvidia Shield ATV 2015, FireTv 4K, 2 Onkyio Dolby Surround ES600 pro, 2 Anleon MX200 Minimixer, Hisense 55M5500. 110 inches rolling screen, excelvan cl720d.
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post #5256 of 6539 Old 02-15-2018, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystickid View Post
Thanks Rgarc. that's also an important factor. No one seems to be using auro here in the states as much.

Is the sound quality of 3d immersiveness SIGNIFICANTLY better than dolby atmos processing?
People that I have talked to about this that have had the opportunity to experience both Atmos and Auro 3d have generally stated that Auro 3d is the better format. However, the lack of content in the United States has cooled them off as well. Unfortunately there are not a lot of opportunities to experience Auro 3d in the US outside of a few movie theaters.

What turned me away was when the Bladerunner 2049 Blu-ray was released in the US with an Atmos soundtrack despite it it having an Auro 3d US theatrical release. just abut every Blu-Ray listed on the Auro 3d Website got released in Atmos in the US. However, if your main thing is music, you can get Blu-ray music disks in Auro 3D in the US. I keep coming back to this thread hoping to hear news about Auro 3D expanding in US Market so I still have hope.
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post #5257 of 6539 Old 02-15-2018, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Rgarc View Post
People that I have talked to about this that have had the opportunity to experience both Atmos and Auro 3d have generally stated that Auro 3d is the better format.
I disagree. Atmos is a far better format than either Auro 3D or dts:X. Atmos is the only true object based format scales from 2.0.2 to 24.1.10 speaker layouts. Auro3D is channel based and dts:X releases have been mostly channel based even though objects are supported. Auro/Barco developed Auromax which is object based but seems to be commercial cinema only. I can't see anyone arguing that against Atmos being the best immersive format.

Now, if the discussion is regarding upconversion you may get varying opinions. I happen to like Auromatic and dts Neural X better than Dolby Surround.
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post #5258 of 6539 Old 02-15-2018, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I can't see anyone arguing that against Atmos being the best immersive format.
at least in the US everything seems to be moving towards atmos. I've been in several Dolby theaters and it's definitely been impressive. I think this is going to go the way of VHS/Betamax rather than Coke/Pepsi.
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post #5259 of 6539 Old 02-15-2018, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Atmos is a far better format than either Auro 3D or dts:X. Atmos is the only true object based format scales from 2.0.2 to 24.1.10 speaker layouts. Auro3D is channel based and dts:X releases have been mostly channel based even though objects are supported.

Is there an advantage to Atmos if the number of channels of the format is greater than or equal to the number of channels of processing you have?

Noah
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post #5260 of 6539 Old 02-15-2018, 10:32 PM
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Looks like Auro is going the same way as Video 2000 from Philips.
By far the best video cassette format, but du to a better marketing from VHS, and lesser Betamax, Video 2000 went out the back door..........

What made me turn away from Auro is that with 10.1 the surround backs are sillent, and indeed the lack of content on the BD and UHD market.
Also torrent downloads is all Dolby and DTS.
They started off wrong in using 5.1 as base, and not 7.1
Even i like VOG its just a mix between front and rear hight with Auro-matic.
You could get this also with DD and DTS by using a Stereo to Mono mixer on the front and rear hight, and run this to an external amp and use "VOG".

So this is what i will be doing, i have the X6400H and on the Height1 and Height2 pre-out i have for both a Stereo to Mono mixer and run this to a Denon PMA720 that will drive my VOG speakers, and a PMA520 will drive my mono Surround Back speaker.
Here i use also the Stereo to Mono mixer so my Mono SB will work in Dolby and DTS.

Have the two PMA's behide a door, so all i see is the X6400H
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post #5261 of 6539 Old 02-15-2018, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Is there an advantage to Atmos if the number of channels of the format is greater than or equal to the number of channels of processing you have?
Yes, in that the mix speaker count is now disintermediated from the playback speaker count: the mixer doesn't need to worry about whether the final playback is 5.1, 7.1 5.1.2, 5.1.4, 7.1.2, 7.1.4, and so on. They just place the objects where they want, and the Atmos renderer places them appropriately, based on your playback configuration.

DTS:X does this as well, but is more limited with respect to the number of objects and due to some technical limitations is typically "baked" onto the disc as a 7.1.4 channel soundtrack.

Also worth mentioning the real ace-in-the-hole for Atmos, which is it can be used with streaming and broadcast content, not just physical discs.
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post #5262 of 6539 Old 02-16-2018, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
What made me turn away from Auro is that with 10.1 the surround backs are silent
That's not so hard to fix if you use external power amps.

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post #5263 of 6539 Old 02-16-2018, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I can't see anyone arguing that against Atmos being the best immersive format.
I do. Atmos is only usable in cinemas for one. Any seating position besides MLP will not render the correct sound (=Director's intent).

Codename - the Larch theater
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post #5264 of 6539 Old 02-16-2018, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post
That's not so hard to fix if you use external power amps.
I understand your thoughts, but Auro 10.1 has no Surround Back processing, its Auro 13.1 (for D&M) where SB comes alive.
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post #5265 of 6539 Old 02-16-2018, 12:45 AM
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Looks like Atmos indeed takes top honors; thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
Yes, in that the mix speaker count is now disintermediated from the playback speaker count: the mixer doesn't need to worry about whether the final playback is 5.1, 7.1 5.1.2, 5.1.4, 7.1.2, 7.1.4, and so on. They just place the objects where they want, and the Atmos renderer places them appropriately, based on your playback configuration.

DTS:X does this as well, but is more limited with respect to the number of objects and due to some technical limitations is typically "baked" onto the disc as a 7.1.4 channel soundtrack.

Also worth mentioning the real ace-in-the-hole for Atmos, which is it can be used with streaming and broadcast content, not just physical discs.

Noah
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post #5266 of 6539 Old 02-16-2018, 12:58 AM
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I understand your thoughts, but Auro 10.1 has no Surround Back processing, its Auro 13.1 (for D&M) where SB comes alive.
Doesn't really matter that it has no processing for it... if you have a speaker available, then you should extend the side surround arrays to incorporate it. It's just plain stupid if the AVR cannot do that for you.

( Having separate processing for the back is actually in my book more complicated to play properly over all seats then not having it - bit hard to find a good speaker array configuration for it if the back wall is close. )
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post #5267 of 6539 Old 02-16-2018, 01:13 AM
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Doesn't really matter that it has no processing for it... if you have a speaker available, then you should extend the side surround arrays to incorporate it. It's just plain stupid if the AVR cannot do that for you.

( Having separate processing for the back is actually in my book more complicated to play properly over all seats then not having it - bit hard to find a good speaker array configuration for it if the back wall is close. )

Ok, i understand.
Just like i am doing with the mix from Height 1 and 2 to "create" VOG.
I am Lucky that my MLP is 2.5 meter from the backwall, so Surround Back, even i use just one speaker, is a nice adition.
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post #5268 of 6539 Old 02-16-2018, 04:59 AM
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I do. Atmos is only usable in cinemas for one. Any seating position besides MLP will not render the correct sound (=Director's intent).
I'm pretty sure the discussion is surrounding the home versions of these formats. In the cinema, why the need to develop Auromax?
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post #5269 of 6539 Old 02-16-2018, 05:27 AM
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I'm pretty sure the discussion is surrounding the home versions of these formats. In the cinema, why the need to develop Auromax?
Who said anything else? Are you the sole person in your home? We're four and I built the theater for five. There would only be a working Atmos sound in ONE position out of those five - and not only that... ALL the other four will have individually different experiences. I'm not buying into that that is a good idea. The system is supposed to reproduce the movie sound, not create it's own interpretations for most everyone.

- "Didn't you just love the spaceship hovering right above you?"
- "It wasn't right above me, it was in front of me and to the right"
- "No it wasn't, it was behind me to the left..."

A well thought through system would not have this issue... Atmos was obviously designed by people thinking "we can do this!" and not people thinking "is this the right thing to do?". It works for ONE person, or possibly a few located near MLP in a much larger room.

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post #5270 of 6539 Old 02-16-2018, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post
Atmos is only usable in cinemas for one. Any seating position besides MLP will not render the correct sound (=Director's intent).
Atmos rendering is room-centric, not MLP-centric. Audio events take place at specific locations in the room. There is no correct or incorrect seating location, just difference perspectives of the same event (like what happens in real life).
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post #5271 of 6539 Old 02-16-2018, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post
Who said anything else? Are you the sole person in your home? We're four and I built the theater for five. There would only be a working Atmos sound in ONE position out of those five - and not only that... ALL the other four will have individually different experiences. I'm not buying into that that is a good idea. The system is supposed to reproduce the movie sound, not create it's own interpretations for most everyone.

- "Didn't you just love the spaceship hovering right above you?"
- "It wasn't right above me, it was in front of me and to the right"
- "No it wasn't, it was behind me to the left..."

A well thought through system would not have this issue... Atmos was obviously designed by people thinking "we can do this!" and not people thinking "is this the right thing to do?". It works for ONE person, or possibly a few located near MLP in a much larger room.
That is very interesting. What titles have you compared Auro3D vs Atmos?

There are two adults and one little person (4½) in our household and we all get a consistent experience. However, I just installed a riser for a second row. Utilizing Lyngdorf's matrixing of 7.1.4 to 9.1.6 both rows experience pretty consistent performance with all 3 immersive formats.
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I apologize if this has been asked before, but does anyone have any experience with Auro/auromatic with and without the VOG? I have 4 heights already in a short (7'2" ceiling height) room, but have an opportunity to pick up a matching 5th height speaker for a VOG position, and am wondering whether it substantially improves auro compared to just the 4 heights, from anyone's experience? While I ordinarily am on the "the more the merrier" bandwagon, I wonder if my short ceilings may change the calculus a bit.
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post #5273 of 6539 Old 02-17-2018, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Atmos rendering is room-centric, not MLP-centric. Audio events take place at specific locations in the room. There is no correct or incorrect seating location, just difference perspectives of the same event (like what happens in real life).
That's the best excuse I've heard so far! *ROTFL*

The difference in viewing angle of the visuals on the film and the difference in sound does not match, unfortunately - so that explaination is a dud. (It wouldn't even match up with a 3D-movie, as that still is a single-position 3D, not true-3D rendering.)

Codename - the Larch theater

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post #5274 of 6539 Old 02-17-2018, 12:31 AM
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That is very interesting. What titles have you compared Auro3D vs Atmos?

There are two adults and one little person (4½) in our household and we all get a consistent experience. However, I just installed a riser for a second row. Utilizing Lyngdorf's matrixing of 7.1.4 to 9.1.6 both rows experience pretty consistent performance with all 3 immersive formats.
Titles have nothing to do with it - I experience it at every home theater show in every setup regardless of what they show and regardless of Onkyo or Trinnov - I always try to get a listen at MLP and at a edge/rear seating and Atmos never fails to provide a bad experience at the latter.

You might be sitting much closer together - our theater has recliners and armrests, so it's "quite far" spaced:


I'm typically in the back right (left on the pic) as I'm the "mechanic" to start things... so I'm (of course) quite sensitive to my off-center position being as good as any other. Also, as an unselfish person, I'd never dream of taking the MLP if anyone other was watching with me.

As you should be aware of - I don't have neither Atmos nor Auro3D capability at home yet - as the cost is quite steep given the quality of my existing system. We're talking $10,000+ for adding the extra Auro layer ( I do have the VoG-speakers, though and I have done the experimentation for where to place them to get the same experience of "up" from all seats ). Here's a pic from when and how it was done... thanks to my ceiling diffusion, it was quite easy to test out different locations without damaging anything:

Codename - the Larch theater
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post #5275 of 6539 Old 02-17-2018, 05:52 AM
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Atmos is only usable in cinemas for one. Any seating position besides MLP will not render the correct sound (=Director's intent).
Relatively speaking, the Central Listening Area in the cinema is hardly any bigger than at home. One could even argue that it could be smaller, due to the overhead overhead arrays being more narrow in the cinema as compared to at home...

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Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post
Doesn't really matter that it has no processing for it... if you have a speaker available, then you should extend the side surround arrays to incorporate it. It's just plain stupid if the AVR cannot do that for you.



( Having separate processing for the back is actually in my book more complicated to play properly over all seats then not having it - bit hard to find a good speaker array configuration for it if the back wall is close. )


Is there any elegant way to move/copy the signal from the side surrounds to the rears while using Auromatic?
How big do you think are the chances that it will come as a software feature in the AVR?
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post #5277 of 6539 Old 02-17-2018, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post
Titles have nothing to do with it - I experience it at every home theater show in every setup regardless of what they show and regardless of Onkyo or Trinnov - I always try to get a listen at MLP and at a edge/rear seating and Atmos never fails to provide a bad experience at the latter.
How does this compare/contrast to your experience with native Auro3D?
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post #5278 of 6539 Old 02-17-2018, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anothermib View Post
Is there any elegant way to move/copy the signal from the side surrounds to the rears while using Auromatic?
How big do you think are the chances that it will come as a software feature in the AVR?
I second this, but, if I may, simple & elegant would please me better! Sr7011, lacking SB in Auro 3D.
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post #5279 of 6539 Old 02-17-2018, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
Relatively speaking, the Central Listening Area in the cinema is hardly any bigger than at home. One could even argue that it could be smaller due to the narrowed overhead arrays...

Attachment 2362560
Relatively speaking, the smaller the area - the bigger the difference in degrees - to any speaker...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
How does this compare/contrast to your experience with native Auro3D?
Since I know from my own experiences that you can accomplish VoG with the same experince from all seats... as well as the same experience of side surrounds from all seats ( with the use or arrays rather than individual speakers), I don't see how Auro would fail in this regard...

Personally - as I don't have the setup yet... I can still point out that Auro3D in its uncoded state still is a significant improvement of the "base track" itäs encoded onto... The panning and spatial ques are much improbved compared to a normal track. (I have tested this with an audio blueray that carries the same music in different formats.)

Codename - the Larch theater
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