The official Auro 3D thread (home theater version) - Page 178 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5311 of 6397 Old 03-03-2018, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
I suggested to @jdsmoothie of AVScience that they obtain a "bulk" shipment of the discs--could probably send 10 for the price of one--and include with each purchase of an Auro-loaded Receiver. I told him I'd even pay $10, but Auro's asking cost of $30 is a bridge too far. Auro is never going to penetrate the home market without an installed base of decoders. Denon is doing it's part with inclusion of Auro in it's upper market receivers. Time for Auro to talk less and do more. My impression is that Auro is focused on Europe, only.
Same thing in Europe.
Ask me for 28 euro to ship to UK.
Same price to ship to Poland.
**** marketing.
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post #5312 of 6397 Old 03-03-2018, 07:00 AM
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The objecting Auro users from OverThePond, should remember that they were sent from Marantz/Denon a free Auro 2014 demo disc when they purchased the upgrade (and this never happened here in Europe). So, now that Auro is included in the new equipments, at a +++$$$, You cannot complain with Auro, but I believe with D+M Usa group.
I can't agree more that this (worldwide) is not an intelligent marketing behavior, nevertheless here we are, with our Auro enabled systems!
And here in Italy we even lack Atmos in Italian in most 4k BR releases!
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post #5313 of 6397 Old 03-03-2018, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Anyway, I can wait until May to hopefully source it without paying this ridiculous shipping charge. "The disc itself is free", yeah, sure, no one is asking them to use Fedex to send the disc. It would cost them a couple of euros to send it by normal mail, but they don't seem to be willing to do this.

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post #5314 of 6397 Old 03-03-2018, 11:15 PM
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It's one thing to shoot themselves in the foot. But the way they're operating, it won't be long before they hit a vital organ.
This is one of the reasons i moved away from Auro.
Just use it on Internet Radio because its "free" on the X6400, and Dolby Center Spread can not be set to specific sources, its ON or OFF on all sources
Further its a dead end with Auro and content.
I'm a heavy torrent downloader, its 100% Dolby and DTS, absolute no Auro.
And i kicked out VOG, its only working ok on specific content with that channel, even with Auro-Matic its most of the time sillent.
Saved me a Stereo amp and a set of KEF T101 i had on the ceiling, ergo 400 euro !
No problem if its doing something, but its not.
And for Dolby Enabled or Height channels Auro is not any better then Dolby Atmos/DSU or DTSX/NeuralX.


Also the X6400H keeps switching back to the format thats on the file, even i have selected Auro for that format.
Not an Auro problem i think, but its very annoying so i leave it like it is.
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post #5315 of 6397 Old 03-04-2018, 02:27 AM
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This is one of the reasons i moved away from Auro.
I vaguely remember you initially being very enthusiastic about it. Then than diminished, with it only being preferred for Music. Now it sounds like you're not even excited with that any more.

Quote:
Just use it on Internet Radio because its "free" on the X6400, and Dolby Center Spread can not be set to specific sources, its ON or OFF on all sources
I can sympathize with your disappointment. That's really a bug that they should fix. I wonder if there's any way to program a macro into a remote, that would allow center-spread to be toggled on & off?

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Further its a dead end with Auro and content.
Yes, but I'd still be willing to consider it just for the Auromatic upmixer, if it did a superior job with 2-channel stereo (music) sources. I've heard a number of people are happy with it for that purpose. But at one time, when you bought the $200 option, they sent you a free demo disc (with all the test signals to verify proper operation). Now I hear they want $35 (28-Euros) just to send it to you. Does not impress me any, and my interest is rapidly vaporizing.
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post #5316 of 6397 Old 03-04-2018, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post
I vaguely remember you initially being very enthusiastic about it. Then than diminished, with it only being preferred for Music. Now it sounds like you're not even excited with that any more.

I can sympathize with your disappointment. That's really a bug that they should fix. I wonder if there's any way to program a macro into a remote, that would allow center-spread to be toggled on & off?

Yes, but I'd still be willing to consider it just for the Auromatic upmixer, if it did a superior job with 2-channel stereo (music) sources. I've heard a number of people are happy with it for that purpose. But at one time, when you bought the $200 option, they sent you a free demo disc (with all the test signals to verify proper operation). Now I hear they want $35 (28-Euros) just to send it to you. Does not impress me any, and my interest is rapidly vaporizing.

Indeed i was very happy with Auro compared to Dolby and DTS concerning the way Auro-Matic worked, with the options to let the Height or DE speakers be more active.
But boosting the Height/DE speakers for Dolby and DTS by +3 compared to Audyssey will give the same result as Auro-Matic is doing with its setting options.
And still very disapointing that on a 11 channel receiver the Surround Back speakers are not working for Auro 3D, a very big
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post #5317 of 6397 Old 03-05-2018, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
Indeed i was very happy with Auro compared to Dolby and DTS concerning the way Auro-Matic worked, with the options to let the Height or DE speakers be more active.
But boosting the Height/DE speakers for Dolby and DTS by +3 compared to Audyssey will give the same result as Auro-Matic is doing with its setting options.
And still very disapointing that on a 11 channel receiver the Surround Back speakers are not working for Auro 3D, a very big
The newer 13CH version of Auro 3D does allow for use of Surround Back speakers, so perhaps this will trickle down to the 2018 and newer 11CH models as well, although not sure if a firmware update would be possible on 2017 and older models.
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post #5318 of 6397 Old 03-05-2018, 03:57 AM
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Blade Runner 2049
Available on Blu-ray and Blu-ray 3D.
Released in following territories:

Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech, Egypt, Greece, Hungary, Iceland,
India, Iran, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, S. Africa, Turkey,
UAE

Well, this will get the Auro train rolling "in the world"...........

Think Auro are becoming the "Video 2000" real fast, of the 3 formats.
Just like in the beginning of the 80's, Video 2000 was the best, but VHS was better marketed.
Well it was the porn industry that was using VHS and thus it became quite populair.

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post #5319 of 6397 Old 03-05-2018, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The newer 13CH version of Auro 3D does allow for use of Surround Back speakers, so perhaps this will trickle down to the 2018 and newer 11CH models as well, although not sure if a firmware update would be possible on 2017 and older models.
The bigger question is if it's possible to use one's physical surround-back speaker as Auro (side) surrounds. That is what you need for Auro 11.x. It's just a channel-routing issue, not a decoding one... (One might not even want to run Auro 13.x even if the receiver is a 13ch one... )

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post #5320 of 6397 Old 03-05-2018, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post
I vaguely remember you initially being very enthusiastic about it. Then than diminished, with it only being preferred for Music. Now it sounds like you're not even excited with that any more.



I can sympathize with your disappointment. That's really a bug that they should fix. I wonder if there's any way to program a macro into a remote, that would allow center-spread to be toggled on & off?



Yes, but I'd still be willing to consider it just for the Auromatic upmixer, if it did a superior job with 2-channel stereo (music) sources. I've heard a number of people are happy with it for that purpose. But at one time, when you bought the $200 option, they sent you a free demo disc (with all the test signals to verify proper operation). Now I hear they want $35 (28-Euros) just to send it to you. Does not impress me any, and my interest is rapidly vaporizing.
So far i had more spacious detail when just using Stereo mode compared to Auro2D or 3D. Some of the little sounds are less audible with Auro. I was surprised 2.0 could sound so spacious with only 2 speakers. So far im still switching back to 2.1 for music and 5.1.4 for movies.

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well it was the porn industry that was using vhs and thus it became quite populair.

lol
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post #5322 of 6397 Old 03-05-2018, 02:01 PM
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So far i had more spacious detail when just using Stereo mode compared to Auro2D or 3D. Some of the little sounds are less audible with Auro. I was surprised 2.0 could sound so spacious with only 2 speakers. So far im still switching back to 2.1 for music and 5.1.4 for movies.
Thanks for sharing your experience with Auromatic. In spite of having over 5,000 posts in this thread, there are surprisingly few comments on people's actual experiences with Auromatic upmixing of 2-channel stereo music sources. Finding them is somewhat akin to searching for a needle in a haystack.

I do have a dedicated pair of stereo speakers for music (2.1) in my planned HT room layout, with a 60-degree spread, to complement the 45-degree LCR spread on the front sound-stage for movies. (with Wides then at about an 84-degree spread.) So 22, 30, and 42-degrees off-axis, for those 3 pairs.
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Am I in the right thread? Has Auro lost its biggest fan? Well… aside from @Nightlord .

I felt like a heretic here just a few short week ago. Go figure.

For the single "shipping & handling" fee they will at least send you demo discs (2014 & v2). So I now have 2 copies of 2014. I will be selling one to offset the cost.
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post #5324 of 6397 Old 03-05-2018, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post
Thanks for sharing your experience with Auromatic. In spite of having over 5,000 posts in this thread, there are surprisingly few comments on people's actual experiences with Auromatic upmixing of 2-channel stereo music sources. Finding them is somewhat akin to searching for a needle in a haystack.

I do have a dedicated pair of stereo speakers for music (2.1) in my planned HT room layout, with a 60-degree spread, to complement the 45-degree LCR spread on the front sound-stage for movies. (with Wides then at about an 84-degree spread.) So 22, 30, and 42-degrees off-axis, for those 3 pairs.
I love Auromatic upmixing in the Lyngdorf MP-50. Especially when combined with Lyngdorf's matrixed Wides & TOP MIDS. The Wides really do expand the soundstage and the vertical expansion by the heights is convincing (to me). I also prefer Auromatic when upmixing dialog driven movies (i.e. Shawshank). I honestly don't use Dolby Surround. It is Neural X or Auromatic.

I won't replace the MP-50 with a processor that does not feature Auromatic.
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post #5325 of 6397 Old 03-05-2018, 07:15 PM
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And i kicked out VOG, its only working ok on specific content with that channel, even with Auro-Matic its most of the time sillent.
Saved me a Stereo amp and a set of KEF T101 i had on the ceiling, ergo 400 euro !
No problem if its doing something, but its not.
I am so glad you posted this. This can save folks a lot of unnecessary time and money. VoG seems so awesome on paper.
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post #5326 of 6397 Old 03-05-2018, 08:40 PM
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I am so glad you posted this. This can save folks a lot of unnecessary time and money. VoG seems so awesome on paper.
No kidding. Some of us were trying to figure out how best to arrange things to place and drive 4 ceiling speakers from a mono-VOG channel, for optimal results.

[and, 'How it sounds, on paper.' I like that notion. ]

I suspect there must be SOME content, somewhere, that would sound better with VOG enabled. But it's looking like in the majority of cases, it would have a benefit too low to justify the effort.

I'm still waiting to hear possible contrary experiences from other VOG or Auro supporters, that challenge this viewpoint.
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post #5327 of 6397 Old 03-05-2018, 08:51 PM
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I love Auromatic upmixing in the Lyngdorf MP-50. Especially when combined with Lyngdorf's matrixed Wides & TOP MIDS. The Wides really do expand the soundstage and the vertical expansion by the heights is convincing (to me). I also prefer Auromatic when upmixing dialog driven movies (i.e. Shawshank). I honestly don't use Dolby Surround. It is Neural X or Auromatic.
Good to hear. Since Neural:X also generates the Wides and Heights, did you have any thoughts on how they compare? (Obviously, you've said you prefer Auromatic for dialog-driven films, and music, I believe.)
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post #5328 of 6397 Old 03-05-2018, 09:17 PM
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Good to hear. Since Neural:X also generates the Wides and Heights, did you have any thoughts on how they compare? (Obviously, you've said you prefer Auromatic for dialog-driven films, and music, I believe.)
I find Neural X the superior upmixing for active soundtracks. It seems best at extracting objects and placing them in the heights.

I find that Auromatic best preserves the original source of all the upmixers. I believe this may be because Auro does not extract anything from the 2D layer when it does its 3D expansion @sdurani has tried explaining Auromatic to me but sometimes it takes a few iterations before it all sinks in with me.

With Denon+Marantz there are times in which engaging Pure Direct vs XT32 is like removing a blanket. I experience this same effect with some tracks with Auromatic vs DS vs Neural X. Auromatic just sounds more detailed to my ears/brain.

I have never run Auro on D+M (if only the license had been transferrable!), so my experience with it is limited to the Lyngdorf .
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post #5329 of 6397 Old 03-05-2018, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I am so glad you posted this. This can save folks a lot of unnecessary time and money. VoG seems so awesome on paper.
When i run some Auro test files where VOG is made (extra) active, its very nice.
I had 2 speakers above the 2 seats i use, so the "best" possible way to use VOG.
I pulled all the speaker wires exept VOG and started to run some action and Sifi movies, but the use of VOG was very little with Auro-Matic.
Even on the Auro 3D test disk it was very little active.
For me it did not ad anything, even i wanted it and had to make some effort to get the VOG speakers up there.
Now i run with 4 DE speakers and to me this sounds the same.......
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post #5330 of 6397 Old 03-06-2018, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I find Neural X the superior upmixing for active soundtracks. It seems best at extracting objects and placing them in the heights.

I find that Auromatic best preserves the original source of all the upmixers. I believe this may be because Auro does not extract anything from the 2D layer when it does its 3D expansion @sdurani has tried explaining Auromatic to me but sometimes it takes a few iterations before it all sinks in with me.

With Denon+Marantz there are times in which engaging Pure Direct vs XT32 is like removing a blanket. I experience this same effect with some tracks with Auromatic vs DS vs Neural X. Auromatic just sounds more detailed to my ears/brain.
Thanks for this. I appreciate it when you (and others) share their honest opinions, whether positive or negative.

In fact, even if I had heard Auro myself already (which I haven't) and disagreed with you (which I don't), I would STILL value your input.
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post #5331 of 6397 Old 03-06-2018, 02:07 AM
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No kidding. Some of us were trying to figure out how best to arrange things to place and drive 4 ceiling speakers from a mono-VOG channel, for optimal results.

[and, 'How it sounds, on paper.' I like that notion. ]

I suspect there must be SOME content, somewhere, that would sound better with VOG enabled. But it's looking like in the majority of cases, it would have a benefit too low to justify the effort.

I'm still waiting to hear possible contrary experiences from other VOG or Auro supporters, that challenge this viewpoint.
Even Auro them self say VOG is not that important compared to the Surround and Height layer.
Had a discusion with them concerning VOG and they told me its better to concentrate to get the Height layer ok, then concentrating on VOG.
Think they als know its not used to much and lesser important.
I did like it in the beginning and seen VOG as the biggest plus compared to Atmos and DTSX, but this was a result of Auro boosting the VOG channel in specific demo files, and not something that is happening in all movies.
So for me now not worth spending the money on speakers and a external amp.
And absolute not worth upgrading from the X6400H to the X8500H, buying an external amp is cheaper and the same effect.


Would be great to see D&M updating the 11 channel models like the X6400H so it can run Auro3D with Surround Back, then i would be back again, but for now i run in the native sound mode (99,99% Dolby and DTS), with or without the help of the specific upmixers, and getting all the speakers to work
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post #5332 of 6397 Old 03-06-2018, 02:16 AM
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I also hope this could happen for my Sr7011!
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post #5333 of 6397 Old 03-06-2018, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I find Neural X the superior upmixing for active soundtracks. It seems best at extracting objects and placing them in the heights.

I find that Auromatic best preserves the original source of all the upmixers. I believe this may be because Auro does not extract anything from the 2D layer when it does its 3D expansion @sdurani has tried explaining Auromatic to me but sometimes it takes a few iterations before it all sinks in with me.

With Denon+Marantz there are times in which engaging Pure Direct vs XT32 is like removing a blanket. I experience this same effect with some tracks with Auromatic vs DS vs Neural X. Auromatic just sounds more detailed to my ears/brain.

I have never run Auro on D+M (if only the license had been transferrable!), so my experience with it is limited to the Lyngdorf .
I think I may have asked you this before but when you run Neural X do you have your overhead speakers set as tops or heights?
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post #5334 of 6397 Old 03-06-2018, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post
Thanks for sharing your experience with Auromatic. In spite of having over 5,000 posts in this thread, there are surprisingly few comments on people's actual experiences with Auromatic upmixing of 2-channel stereo music sources. Finding them is somewhat akin to searching for a needle in a haystack.
I find Auromatic upmixing of stereo music extremely satisfying. Especially when compared to Dolby Surround and even more so when compared to with DTS Neural X.
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post #5335 of 6397 Old 03-06-2018, 03:57 AM
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Personally I find Auromatic upmixing of stereo music extremely satisfying. Especially when compared to Dolby Surround and even more so when compared to with DTS Neural X.

When i do Stereo with Auro 2 or 3D, i like it because it uses the Fronts more then the Center.
But when i use DSU and select "Center Spread" it is doing exact the same as Auro but with ALL the speakers, no exeption like Auro is having.
What i do not like of DSU is that this is used (center spread) on all sources, also TV, and i do not like center spread on TV, just Music.
So for now i use Auro on Internet Radio and DSU on Stereo TV content.
Still do not like that with Auro 2D the Heights do not work, and with Auro 3D the Surround Back do not work.
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post #5336 of 6397 Old 03-06-2018, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by tbaucom View Post
I think I may have asked you this before but when you run Neural X do you have your overhead speakers set as tops or heights?
The Lyngdorf MP-50 has an option, Dts Remapping. So I have overhead speakers set as TOPS, but dts operates as HEIGHTS automatically. Lyngdorf does the same for Auro when Heights are not configured (you can have both TOPS and HEIGHTS connected if you wish). Dts:X Remapping is something all manufacturers should implement and I'm not sure why they haven't.
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post #5337 of 6397 Old 03-06-2018, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
The Lyngdorf MP-50 has an option, Dts Remapping. So I have overhead speakers set as TOPS, but dts operates as HEIGHTS automatically. Lyngdorf does the same for Auro when Heights are not configured (you can have both TOPS and HEIGHTS connected if you wish). Dts:X Remapping is something all manufacturers should implement and I'm not sure why they haven't.
Thanks. My Yamaha 3060 doesn't have a remapping feature but it does allow me to save 2 different speaker patterns. I have use Neural:X with the overhead speakers set as both height and top. They are more active when set to height. I wish DTS would put out some setup recommendations like the Dolby white papers.
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post #5338 of 6397 Old 03-06-2018, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Sanjay View Post
I find Auromatic upmixing of stereo music extremely satisfying. Especially when compared to Dolby Surround and even more so when compared to with DTS Neural X.
Have you tried Center Spread with Dolby Surround? It makes a huge difference with music, though I still prefer Auromatic.

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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
When i do Stereo with Auro 2 or 3D, i like it because it uses the Fronts more then the Center.
But when i use DSU and select "Center Spread" it is doing exact the same as Auro but with ALL the speakers, no exeption like Auro is having.
What i do not like of DSU is that this is used (center spread) on all sources, also TV, and i do not like center spread on TV, just Music.
So for now i use Auro on Internet Radio and DSU on Stereo TV content.
Still do not like that with Auro 2D the Heights do not work, and with Auro 3D the Surround Back do not work.
Will you consider a new Denon if they do not enable Rear Surrounds (11.1b layout) on your model?

I am expecting Lyngdorf to add it.
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post #5339 of 6397 Old 03-06-2018, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by tbaucom View Post
Thanks. My Yamaha 3060 doesn't have a remapping feature but it does allow me to save 2 different speaker patterns. I have use Neural:X with the overhead speakers set as both height and top. They are more active when set to height. I wish DTS would put out some setup recommendations like the Dolby white papers.
They have. Check the dts:X thread.

The Yamaha solution is very suitable.
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post #5340 of 6397 Old 03-06-2018, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Have you tried Center Spread with Dolby Surround? It makes a huge difference with music, though I still prefer Auromatic.


Will you consider a new Denon if they do not enable Rear Surrounds (11.1b layout) on your model?

I am expecting Lyngdorf to add it.
well, for the next 3-4 years i will be ok with the X6400H.
I do not know if its a D&M "problem" or a Auro thing.
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