The official Auro 3D thread (home theater version) - Page 181 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5401 of 6360 Old 04-23-2018, 01:47 AM
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Pending the arrival of my AVC X-8500H at the end of May I have read back a bit to get some knowledge of Auro 3D so thanks to all those who have posed

I had already dropped a email to Auro enquiring about a demo disc but have to agree that if they want €28 for postage then no chance

I have had Front and Rear Heights for a good few years and last week put a pair of in-ceilings for Atmos Top Front something I should have done 3 yr ago when I got a Denon 7200 as there was an instant improvement compared to using Front Heights
When I get the 8500 I will reconfigure for FH TM RH

Anyway to the point,I do not intend to install a single VOG channel
I imagine the VOG is mono and I am curious as to why this new version of Auro that we are waiting for could not just send the VOG signal to Top middle speakers?
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post #5402 of 6360 Old 04-23-2018, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post
Pending the arrival of my AVC X-8500H at the end of May I have read back a bit to get some knowledge of Auro 3D so thanks to all those who have posed

I had already dropped a email to Auro enquiring about a demo disc but have to agree that if they want €28 for postage then no chance

I have had Front and Rear Heights for a good few years and last week put a pair of in-ceilings for Atmos Top Front something I should have done 3 yr ago when I got a Denon 7200 as there was an instant improvement compared to using Front Heights
When I get the 8500 I will reconfigure for FH TM RH

Anyway to the point,I do not intend to install a single VOG channel
I imagine the VOG is mono and I am curious as to why this new version of Auro that we are waiting for could not just send the VOG signal to Top middle speakers?

VOG in Auro-Matic is a mix of front and rear Height.
You could do the same as i did, use a double stereo to mono converter, use this on front/rear Left Height and front/rear Right Height, and use a left and right VOG speaker.
A bonus is that this also works in DTS and Dolby !
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post #5403 of 6360 Old 04-23-2018, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
VOG in Auro-Matic is a mix of front and rear Height.
You could do the same as i did, use a double stereo to mono converter, use this on front/rear Left Height and front/rear Right Height, and use a left and right VOG speaker.
A bonus is that this also works in DTS and Dolby !
Thanks for the info
I didnt realise that about the mix
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post #5404 of 6360 Old 04-23-2018, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
VOG in Auro-Matic is a mix of front and rear Height.
You could do the same as i did, use a double stereo to mono converter, use this on front/rear Left Height and front/rear Right Height, and use a left and right VOG speaker.
A bonus is that this also works in DTS and Dolby !
Per Auro Technologies, when AuroMatic is used on a 2.0 or 5.1 audio track, a mix of all input channels (not just front/rear height) is used for the VOG. Also, although not possible to upmix Auro 3D 9.1 on the current Denon/Marantz 9CH/11CH Auro 3D capable models, when the new 2018 "flagship" Denon X8500H and Marantz AV8805 receive the new Auro 3D 13.1 version, they will be able to use AuroMatic on Auro 3D 9.1 audio.
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post #5405 of 6360 Old 04-23-2018, 11:22 AM
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Auro-Matic generates height outputs by copying whole channels from the base layer (with a little additional processing). So, content-wise, it doesn't really matter whether the VOG is derived from content in the base layer and/or content in the height layer, since it's the same content.

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post #5406 of 6360 Old 04-23-2018, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Auro-Matic generates height outputs by copying whole channels from the base layer (with a little additional processing....
This is why I don't understand how it could work well with movies. For music I love it, but copying entire channels to upmix a movie seems really bizarre.

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post #5407 of 6360 Old 04-23-2018, 02:50 PM
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I wonder if Auro is realy doing ALL channels to VOG ?

This would end up in getting also vocals (from front and center) and surround effects playing through the VOG speaker.
I can understand having a mix from the 4 Height channels to VOG, like i am doing now with the mono convertors from the 4 Height channels to my 2 "VOG" speakers.
I personal do not want to hear any vocals or 5.1 level effects being produced by the VOG speaker, just the Height channels.

So if Auro realy mixes all channels to VOG, think this is why i like my setup better, and i will keep using this for Dolby and DTS, both upmixers and native.
I do not use Auro any more du to Auro not using my SB speakers in 3D, but i like the idea of VOG and it works great this way.
My VOG is supporting my 4 Dolby Enabled speakers in a great way and realy puts the effects above my MLP.
Without the DE speakers its very pin pointed above me, with the DE speakers the soundfield is more defuse and larger.

I use a Denon PMA520 to drive the pre-out Height channels and have this way a perfect control over the way the 2 VOG speakers work together with the 4 DE speakers.
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post #5408 of 6360 Old 04-23-2018, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
This is why I don't understand how it could work well with movies. For music I love it, but copying entire channels to upmix a movie seems really bizarre.
Some people just want sound emanating from all speakers all the time. Others like the 3D ambiance that Auromatic provides throughout. I must admit that I am a Auromatic fan.

Auromatic seems to leave the original channels alone and the upmixing only affects the additional channels. I find it effective for music and even for some movies (mostly dialog driven). My son wanted to watch Sing on Netflix (5.1, not Atmos) and I liked Auromatic the best. It does no discrete extraction & placement of audio like the others but always seem to sound natural to me. The other upmixers don't always but there are many scenarios in which they are better.

My Fair Lady, The Shawshank Redemption, The Godfather - Auromatic

Top Gun, Days of Thunder, Avatar - DS or Neural X
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post #5409 of 6360 Old 04-23-2018, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Some people just want sound emanating from all speakers all the time. Others like the 3D ambiance that Auromatic provides throughout. I must admit that I am a Auromatic fan.

Auromatic seems to leave the original channels alone and the upmixing only affects the additional channels. I find it effective for music and even for some movies (mostly dialog driven). My son wanted to watch Sing on Netflix (5.1, not Atmos) and I liked Auromatic the best. It does no discrete extraction & placement of audio like the others but always seem to sound natural to me. The other upmixers don't always but there are many scenarios in which they are better.

My Fair Lady, The Shawshank Redemption, The Godfather - Auromatic

Top Gun, Days of Thunder, Avatar - DS or Neural X
My work around of the 7.1 "problem" (on a STEREO source like Internet Radio) of Auro on 11 channel receivers is that i use DTS NeuralX and boost channel level for the Front speakers, and lower channel level for the Center.
This way its exact like Auro-Matic 2D with SB speakers, but now also the Height speakers work.
And the far to heavy working Center in Dolby and DTS for Stereo is also gone, just like Auro is doing on Stereo sources.

As i only like this on Music i use channel level, so on other Stereo sources like the TV i stil get the more heavy Center.
I do not use a adjusted channel level on other sources, just Internet Radio, to mimic the Auro 2D / 3D stereo source effect, aka heavy fronts, less heavy center.

Now on all sources, all formats, all my speakers work, and with my "VOG" setup with the mono/stereo convertors i like what i hear
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post #5410 of 6360 Old 04-23-2018, 10:32 PM
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@CBdicX have you tried Dolby Surround w/Center Spread enabled?
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post #5411 of 6360 Old 04-23-2018, 10:41 PM
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@CBdicX have you tried Dolby Surround w/Center Spread enabled?

Yes sire.
But du to a "bug" its now when i set Dolby Surround to use Center Spread, it will use this setting on ALL sources !
Its not possible with D&M to select CS on a specific source
So if i want to use it in say Intenet Radio, it will also be used for Stereo TV channels, and i do not like that.
When i tested CS its almost exact what Auro is doing.
For now until they fix the bug, i do the channel level trick and it works great, this setting can be saved on the source i want.
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post #5412 of 6360 Old 04-24-2018, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Some people just want sound emanating from all speakers all the time. Others like the 3D ambiance that Auromatic provides throughout. I must admit that I am a Auromatic fan.

Auromatic seems to leave the original channels alone and the upmixing only affects the additional channels. I find it effective for music and even for some movies (mostly dialog driven). My son wanted to watch Sing on Netflix (5.1, not Atmos) and I liked Auromatic the best. It does no discrete extraction & placement of audio like the others but always seem to sound natural to me. The other upmixers don't always but there are many scenarios in which they are better.

My Fair Lady, The Shawshank Redemption, The Godfather - Auromatic

Top Gun, Days of Thunder, Avatar - DS or Neural X
What Auro settings do you use for dialog-driven movies? I think I'll try it.

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post #5413 of 6360 Old 04-28-2018, 02:43 PM
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Auro3D + xbox one

I have a Marantz 7012 receiver capable of decode Auro3D. I have read that you can play an Auro3D bluray with an xbox one and then send the audio to a receiver Auro3D capable to decode this audio format but ... I can't make it work, under info it shows DTS-HD. My xbox audio settings include bitstream out, dolby atmos, and under bluray I choose "let my receiver decode audio", I think thats all need it. My receiver should choose the format automatically but Auro3D is always missing. My speakers are configure for Auro3D 10.1

Can you help me?...thanks in advance
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post #5414 of 6360 Old 04-28-2018, 03:12 PM
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I have a Marantz 7012 receiver capable of decode Auro3D. I have read that you can play an Auro3D bluray with an xbox one and then send the audio to a receiver Auro3D capable to decode this audio format but ... I can't make it work, under info it shows DTS-HD. My xbox audio settings include bitstream out, dolby atmos, and under bluray I choose "let my receiver decode audio", I think thats all need it. My receiver should choose the format automatically but Auro3D is always missing. My speakers are configure for Auro3D 10.1

Can you help me?...thanks in advance
Auro can be encoded within a PCM or dts-HD MA stream. Simply select Auro3D for the surround mode and Auro should kick right in. I had the same problem as you with Auro3D encoded within dts-HD initially.
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post #5415 of 6360 Old 04-28-2018, 03:19 PM
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If you read Dts Hd Ma in info audio input, you are good to go. Choose Auro 3d from the relative keys on the Marantz remote. There isn't a different output decoder description: it will always tell Auro 3D. It should say Auromatic if the input signal is not native Auro 3D. If tou have a disk with a native Auro 3D track, then you will have this in the input description, too, and then the decoder will work as Auro 3D effectively.
Hope this helps
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post #5416 of 6360 Old 04-28-2018, 04:39 PM
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wow, problem solved..Thank you very much!
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post #5417 of 6360 Old 04-28-2018, 11:42 PM
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Auro bug in X6400H ?


I have a Denon X6400H and as soon as i use a DTSX file the receiver is starting to go back to the native signals.
I use to select Auro for all formats but du to this "bug" i stopped using Auro.
Every time i need do do a factory reset to get bug out.
After the reset all is ok, it will play Dolby and DTS in Auro until i hit a DTSX movie or test file, then its banana's again, sometimes Auro, most of the time it will start with the native format.
And it won't stop mixing and going back to native until i do the reset.
As this happens only with DTSX files, i think its a bug in this X6400H, just this one or all Denon Auro receivers (?).
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post #5418 of 6360 Old 04-29-2018, 12:55 AM
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This, really, should be cleared up from some power user here! Thanks for sharing!

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post #5419 of 6360 Old 04-29-2018, 05:58 PM
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I really wanted to see Infinity War in IMAX but couldn't find any seats that accommodated our schedule this w/e. So I booked tickets for my favorite theater for SQ & PQ, Cinemark XD!

When we walked in the previews were just starting and I thought to myself, this sounds like Auromatic upmixing. I looked up and sure enough there were heights along the side and back walls. Right before the main feature a Cinemark XD trailer played, but this one emphasized Barco 11.1 implemented by THX (what?)!

Sure enough, Infinity War was in Auro 11.1 (in Anaheim, CA no less). I'm just not sure if this was standard Auro3D 11.1 or Auromax. I would guess Auro3D.

http://www.barco.com/en/News/Press-r...ema-sound.aspx
http://www.filmjournal.com/content/c...eens-worldwide.

While I felt the surrounds were overused for the score (front sides would be more appropriate, but not available/possible in 11.1… I'll have to compare to an Atmos showing). I have to say I preferred this Auro 11.1 experience to any theatrical Atmos experience I've had so far (although the superior sound system and bass of this XD theater may make for an unfair comparison). I suspect the Auro 11.1 format makes for a more consistent listening experience roomwide.



This picture is from Barco's website but mirrors the layout at the Cinemark XD in Anaheim.
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post #5420 of 6360 Old 05-03-2018, 06:48 PM
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Can anyone confirm that the german version of jumanji has a Auro 3d sound track?
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post #5421 of 6360 Old 05-03-2018, 07:02 PM
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Can anyone confirm that the german version of jumanji has a Auro 3d sound track?
Confirmed, but only on the 2D bluray. However if you buy the german UHD version, the UHD disc will have Atmos, and the bluray disc in that bundle will have Auro3D. Kind of 2 in 1 deal

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post #5422 of 6360 Old 05-04-2018, 08:50 PM
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Thanks Nalleh
Just hope Auro can get some more films out there
Have ordered from amazion.de
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post #5423 of 6360 Old 05-09-2018, 08:10 PM
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How much difference does it make to have the height speakers identical to the lower speakers ?

I am just setting up my AURO-3D room now and have a choice of identical large speakers for my heights or smaller bookshelf speakers from the same manufacturer and same range.
But the bookshelfs are a lot smaller (3" vs 6" woofer) and I am concerned they won't have the same effectiveness as running all the same speakers ??

Anybody have first hand experience ?

Or does anybody know if Auro sends the same amount of "power/info" (?) to the heights as it does to the lower bed speakers and would this matter anyway ?

I know Auro suggest the same speakers but just wondering if it really makes enough of a difference to worry about mounting quite large speakers ?

Thanks
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post #5424 of 6360 Old 05-10-2018, 04:05 PM
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How much difference does it make to have the height speakers identical to the lower speakers ?

I am just setting up my AURO-3D room now and have a choice of identical large speakers for my heights or smaller bookshelf speakers from the same manufacturer and same range.
But the bookshelfs are a lot smaller (3" vs 6" woofer) and I am concerned they won't have the same effectiveness as running all the same speakers ??

Anybody have first hand experience ?

Or does anybody know if Auro sends the same amount of "power/info" (?) to the heights as it does to the lower bed speakers and would this matter anyway ?

I know Auro suggest the same speakers but just wondering if it really makes enough of a difference to worry about mounting quite large speakers ?

Thanks
I think this is very context dependent - how good are the speakers, how large is the room, are you bass managing all of the surround arrays, what is the crossover frequency. Although I appreciate Auro's recommendation, for me personally I would not hesitate to use slightly smaller speakers for the height surrounds, in conjunction with bass management and knowing that the height surround were good speakers down to 70Hz or so.
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post #5425 of 6360 Old 05-10-2018, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niterida View Post
How much difference does it make to have the height speakers identical to the lower speakers ?

I am just setting up my AURO-3D room now and have a choice of identical large speakers for my heights or smaller bookshelf speakers from the same manufacturer and same range.
But the bookshelfs are a lot smaller (3" vs 6" woofer) and I am concerned they won't have the same effectiveness as running all the same speakers ??

Anybody have first hand experience ?

Or does anybody know if Auro sends the same amount of "power/info" (?) to the heights as it does to the lower bed speakers and would this matter anyway ?

I know Auro suggest the same speakers but just wondering if it really makes enough of a difference to worry about mounting quite large speakers ?

Thanks

Mixed various speaker brands and same brand different serie, never could tell a differents in Height sound.
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post #5426 of 6360 Old 05-11-2018, 06:51 AM
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OK the room is smallish - just under 3000cuft (14'3" x 20'7" x 9')
The speakers are all older Mourdant Short - MS3.50 main and MS3.30 bed speakers with another 4 for heights if required
or MS05 for heights - similar to but not quite as large as MS3.10s - not sure how low they would go but I think 80hz would be max (or minimum ??) The only bass mgmt I will be doing is with Audyssey.
But I also have 4 pioneer subs in each corner to take care of the bass anyway.
The MS05 are physically tiny compared to the MS3.30 so I am leaning toward the MS3.30 for SQ but I would prefer the MS05 for aesthetics and freeing up the MS3.30 for the casual TV / music room.
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post #5427 of 6360 Old 05-11-2018, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niterida View Post
OK the room is smallish - just under 3000cuft (14'3" x 20'7" x 9')
The speakers are all older Mourdant Short - MS3.50 main and MS3.30 bed speakers with another 4 for heights if required
or MS05 for heights - similar to but not quite as large as MS3.10s - not sure how low they would go but I think 80hz would be max (or minimum ??) The only bass mgmt I will be doing is with Audyssey.
But I also have 4 pioneer subs in each corner to take care of the bass anyway.
The MS05 are physically tiny compared to the MS3.30 so I am leaning toward the MS3.30 for SQ but I would prefer the MS05 for aesthetics and freeing up the MS3.30 for the casual TV / music room.
My signature shows my equipment. I do not hear any separation in sound. It's seamless.

Theater Setup: 5.2.5 (10.1 Auro3D) / ~3100 cu.ft. / Vaulted Ceiling
Projector:JVC DLA-X570R Screen:SI Performance Series 16:9 100" Source Player:Oppo BDP-103D/UDP-203 Pre/Pro:Marantz AV8802A Amps:Emotiva XPA-5(Fronts/Surrounds) and BasX A500(Heights) Fronts/Surrounds:Sonus Faber Venere 2.0 Center:Sonus Faber Venere Center Front/Rear Heights:Definitive Technology PM1000 / ProCenter1000(VOG) Subwoofer:Dual SVS SB-2000 Speaker Wire:Monoprice CL2 12-AWG w/Bananas ICs:BlueJeanCables/Mediabridge
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post #5428 of 6360 Old 05-11-2018, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by pacman9270 View Post
My signature shows my equipment. I do not hear any separation in sound. It's seamless.
Thanks for that
My MS05s are only 4" (typo above) and are quite a lot smaller than the PM1000s (5 1/4") though

I guess I will have to try both options and see which is best ........

Cheers
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post #5429 of 6360 Old 05-14-2018, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by niterida View Post
Thanks for that
My MS05s are only 4" (typo above) and are quite a lot smaller than the PM1000s (5 1/4") though

I guess I will have to try both options and see which is best ........

Cheers
Run your calibration and you should be fine. Besides, its more for atmospherics and the occasional overhead effect. Those are usually short lived. The atmospherics part takes advantage of your higher frequencies anyway.

Theater Setup: 5.2.5 (10.1 Auro3D) / ~3100 cu.ft. / Vaulted Ceiling
Projector:JVC DLA-X570R Screen:SI Performance Series 16:9 100" Source Player:Oppo BDP-103D/UDP-203 Pre/Pro:Marantz AV8802A Amps:Emotiva XPA-5(Fronts/Surrounds) and BasX A500(Heights) Fronts/Surrounds:Sonus Faber Venere 2.0 Center:Sonus Faber Venere Center Front/Rear Heights:Definitive Technology PM1000 / ProCenter1000(VOG) Subwoofer:Dual SVS SB-2000 Speaker Wire:Monoprice CL2 12-AWG w/Bananas ICs:BlueJeanCables/Mediabridge
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post #5430 of 6360 Old 05-14-2018, 10:04 PM
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hi all, i´m looking to understand where to proceed in my livingroom and if it worth to upgrade to the auro setup
room is small, 14' long, 12' wide and 8' high
i have the 1300w and looking for the 4400h to upgrade
speakers are indiana line and xtz sub

it work in this little room to use the 10.1 configuration?

denon 1300W - indiana line 761/561/241
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