The official Auro 3D thread (home theater version) - Page 185 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1953Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #5521 of 6505 Old 06-15-2018, 03:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 4,342
Mentioned: 413 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked: 4141
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Because people keep pointing me here saying it is possible. I didn't realize that some are available in Auro only in commercial releases, while some are on the Blu-ray.

Just to clarify - let's take a look at your link for Jumangi... On the Amazon.de page, under the specifications, it says "Language: Russian (Dolby Digital 5.1), German (DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1), French (DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1)". Despite it not listing Auro3D, it is confirmed that it contains Auro3D? And is it available in English Auro3D, or you have to use a foreign language with subtitles? Thanks again.
BTW: the UHD’s on the list have Atmos on the UHD disc, and Auro on the included Bluray. So if you want only the Auro version and save some money, the 2D Bluray version of those movies on Amazon.de also have Auro, and are a lot cheaper. (Except Ghostbusters, that one is Auro on the UHD)

EDIT: updated the list with 2D blurays where possible, as they are cheaper. But UHD versions also contain Atmos on UHD disc.

1. Red Tails BD(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Red-Tails-Blu-...dp/B00B93N75W/

2. Bowling Balls BD(NL):
https://www.bol.com/nl/p/bowling-bal...0000040520739/

3. Pippa BD(NL):
https://www.bol.com/nl/p/pippa/92000...uggestedsearch

4. Pixels BD(Sony)(UK):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pixels-Blu-...pixels+blu+ray

5. Texas Chainsaw Massacre UHD(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Chainsaw-Massa...dp/B01DXIP53C/

6. Cold War 2 BD (HK):
https://www.hmv.com.hk/goods/1016492.html

7. Ghostbusters UHD(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Ghostbusters-4...A3JWKAKR8XB7XF

8. Inferno BD(AU):
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_o...u+ray&_sacat=0

9. Johnny Mnemonic BD(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Vernetzt-Mnemo...ohnny+mnemonic

10. Passengers BD (Sony)(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Passengers-Blu...=UTF8&qid=&sr=

11. Spiderman Homecoming BD(Sony)(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Spider-Man-Hom...SIN=B073WZG3SP

12. Dark Tower BD(Sony)(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/dunkle-Turm-Bl...SIN=B074JS663T

13. Flatliners BD(SONY) (UK)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Flatliners-...7121926&sr=1-2

14. Blade Runner 2049 BD(PL)
https://www.dvdmax.pl/blade-runner-2...-ray,art663117

15. Salyut 7 BD(RS)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/263422297452

16. Jumanji: Welcome To The Jungle BD(DE)
https://www.amazon.de/Jumanji-Willko...umanji+blu+ray
Duckbacker likes this.

Dual AVR 13.1.8 SWAtmos - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 6xSI18" - 12xJBL 12" w/6xSLAPS M12 downfiring VNF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE Dual TR Sleds- 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XB1X - ATV4K - Vertex2 - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873.
>>>>Nalleh’s HT<<<<

Last edited by Nalleh; 06-15-2018 at 11:54 PM.
Nalleh is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #5522 of 6505 Old 06-18-2018, 10:52 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
BTW: the UHD’s on the list have Atmos on the UHD disc, and Auro on the included Bluray. So if you want only the Auro version and save some money, the 2D Bluray version of those movies on Amazon.de also have Auro, and are a lot cheaper. (Except Ghostbusters, that one is Auro on the UHD)

EDIT: updated the list with 2D blurays where possible, as they are cheaper. But UHD versions also contain Atmos on UHD disc.

1. Red Tails BD(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Red-Tails-Blu-...dp/B00B93N75W/

2. Bowling Balls BD(NL):
https://www.bol.com/nl/p/bowling-bal...0000040520739/

3. Pippa BD(NL):
https://www.bol.com/nl/p/pippa/92000...uggestedsearch

4. Pixels BD(Sony)(UK):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pixels-Blu-...pixels+blu+ray

5. Texas Chainsaw Massacre UHD(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Chainsaw-Massa...dp/B01DXIP53C/

6. Cold War 2 BD (HK):
https://www.hmv.com.hk/goods/1016492.html

7. Ghostbusters UHD(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Ghostbusters-4...A3JWKAKR8XB7XF

8. Inferno BD(AU):
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_o...u+ray&_sacat=0

9. Johnny Mnemonic BD(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Vernetzt-Mnemo...ohnny+mnemonic

10. Passengers BD (Sony)(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Passengers-Blu...=UTF8&qid=&sr=

11. Spiderman Homecoming BD(Sony)(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Spider-Man-Hom...SIN=B073WZG3SP

12. Dark Tower BD(Sony)(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/dunkle-Turm-Bl...SIN=B074JS663T

13. Flatliners BD(SONY) (UK)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Flatliners-...7121926&sr=1-2

14. Blade Runner 2049 BD(PL)
https://www.dvdmax.pl/blade-runner-2...-ray,art663117

15. Salyut 7 BD(RS)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/263422297452

16. Jumanji: Welcome To The Jungle BD(DE)
https://www.amazon.de/Jumanji-Willko...umanji+blu+ray
Hi Everyone,

I am super new to Auro 3d. My setup is a Marantz AV7704 pre-pro with 2 power amps (1 for the regular 5 speakers + top surround) and the second one for my rear heights and front heights. Everything (IMO) was setup correctly.
This evening I was testing the sound with the Auro 3d demo disc and noticed, when I play the 9 min (The future of sound) intro, at one point (46 sec mark) , the top surround speaker channel on the power amp gets tripped. Then once I restart the power amp everything seems fine, but at the exact spot again, the power amp gets tripped. Any thoughts?

I also ran the Auro 11.1 and 9.1 voice channel callouts. For some reason, the front top surround comes out of the front speakers instead of the top speakers and the rear top surround comes out of the surround speakers. Any idea why this is happenning? During the other movie demos, I hear sound from my top speakers.

Thanks
Meyy
Meyy Arunachalam is offline  
post #5523 of 6505 Old 06-19-2018, 06:32 AM
Member
 
Jnelson Young's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I apologize in advance if this has been covered elsewhere.
Just set up my Auro on Marantz 7704. Ran Audyssey successfully with 9.2 setup. So far have used only Auromatic 3d on AppleTV.
Problem is that dialogue is coming from between right and center speakers on all streaming sources. When I switch to Dolby dialogue is dead center on all the same sources. I have adjusted levels on FR, C, and FL to no avail. Thoughts on cause?
Jnelson Young is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #5524 of 6505 Old 06-19-2018, 07:51 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jnelson Young View Post
I apologize in advance if this has been covered elsewhere.
Just set up my Auro on Marantz 7704. Ran Audyssey successfully with 9.2 setup. So far have used only Auromatic 3d on AppleTV.
Problem is that dialogue is coming from between right and center speakers on all streaming sources. When I switch to Dolby dialogue is dead center on all the same sources. I have adjusted levels on FR, C, and FL to no avail. Thoughts on cause?
Not that I am an expert, but did u try switching to Auro 2d? Also can u use other sources like bluray and see if u have the same issue?
Meyy Arunachalam is offline  
post #5525 of 6505 Old 06-19-2018, 10:16 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 85,544
Mentioned: 785 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23459 Post(s)
Liked: 12900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jnelson Young View Post
I apologize in advance if this has been covered elsewhere.
Just set up my Auro on Marantz 7704. Ran Audyssey successfully with 9.2 setup. So far have used only Auromatic 3d on AppleTV.
Problem is that dialogue is coming from between right and center speakers on all streaming sources. When I switch to Dolby dialogue is dead center on all the same sources. I have adjusted levels on FR, C, and FL to no avail. Thoughts on cause?
Try adjusting the <Auro-Matic 3D Preset> p. 173 Owner's manual.

Last edited by jdsmoothie; 06-19-2018 at 10:23 AM.
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #5526 of 6505 Old 06-19-2018, 10:34 AM
Member
 
Jnelson Young's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Try adjusting the <Auro-Matic 3D Preset> p. 173 Owner's manual.
Thanks. Will give that a go.
Jnelson Young is offline  
post #5527 of 6505 Old 06-20-2018, 02:36 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 377
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Liked: 77
I have taken a watch-through ride in the diy group and discovered the MTM Apollo towers that could be used in a center, horizontal configuration. They are 4 Homs speakers, going down, as they say, to 30 Hz.
I would like to use two of them, one as a regular center speaker, the other as a CH channell. Linking them to get an 8 Ohm resistance. CH will be in this case only a copy of C. But overall much more bass output from the two LS, and a better center presence. Actual center Ls (not so bad, only maybe not too bright sometimes) will go to the Vog channell.
Will add a link to the project in a while:
Here it is:
https://www.diysoundgroup.com/apollo-mtm-kit.html
Opinions, if any?
Regards
Alessandro
Edit:
NVM, Just bought 4 Jbl CS2014 to build a nearfield boombox!

Marantz Sr7011, Galactron Mk10b, Pioneer VsxLx50. Klipsch Cornwall, Wharfedale 9.1, Klipsch CP-6. Sony UbpX800, Lg Up970, Hisense 55M5500. 110 inches rolling screen, excelvan cl720d.

Last edited by vn800art; 06-21-2018 at 01:59 PM. Reason: Aborted
vn800art is offline  
post #5528 of 6505 Old 06-20-2018, 05:11 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Confirmed ! I have these exact discs.

All english or english subs, exept Bowling Balls, Pippa and Salyut 7 (not even english subs on these).
Hi Nalleh,
Pippa normally has english subtitles.

You can add "Patser" to the list of Blu-Ray Auro-3D releases. It has the original version + the french dub in 11.1 Auro-3D:
https://www.bol.com/nl/p/patser/9200...85/?country=BE
No english subtitles though.

Some time ago I had promised you info about "Cloudboy", which had a cinema Auro-3D release. "Cloudboy" only had a DVD release an no Blu-Ray, so Auro-3D was not an option.

Greetings,

Thierry
rerecmixer is offline  
post #5529 of 6505 Old 06-27-2018, 08:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MagnumX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,465
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1458 Post(s)
Liked: 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgarc View Post
People that I have talked to about this that have had the opportunity to experience both Atmos and Auro 3d have generally stated that Auro 3d is the better format. However, the lack of content in the United States has cooled them off as well. Unfortunately there are not a lot of opportunities to experience Auro 3d in the US outside of a few movie theaters.

What turned me away was when the Bladerunner 2049 Blu-ray was released in the US with an Atmos soundtrack despite it it having an Auro 3d US theatrical release. just abut every Blu-Ray listed on the Auro 3d Website got released in Atmos in the US. However, if your main thing is music, you can get Blu-ray music disks in Auro 3D in the US. I keep coming back to this thread hoping to hear news about Auro 3D expanding in US Market so I still have hope.
I'm sure licensing fees have everything to do with it not happening, but given the layout incompatibilities of these three formats, it would be darn nice if at least streaming versions offered your choice of soundtrack. I don't six foreign language soundtracks either. How about the original soundtrack the movie was made in with the original actors' voices and just have subtitles for foreign countries (I always get yelled at if I want a Japanese animation with dubbed English like Macross DYRL). That would leave plenty of room on most titles for ALL THREE on one disc or streaming file. How is it possible that with 9+ BILLION people on the planet and 300 million in the US alone that they can't make 10,000 copies in Auro 3D for those here that want it? They do stupid special editions with little more than a slip cover for Walmart or Target or whatever, but they can't make these on demand for those that want it? I call BS. The industry is too darn greedy. It's like expecting Apple to cater an updated Mac Mini every single year instead of every 4-5 years when tiny tiny companies elsewhere manage a new computer model update every single QUARTER! It's ridiculous.

It's made only worse here by the fact you MIGHT be able to get Blade Runner with Auro 3D from Poland there, but what if you want the 4K version or the 3D version? Up the creek without a paddle comes to mind. I suppose for Blu-Rays, you could buy both and mux them yourself (or combine in a digital file with Handbrake + Subler) both the Atmos, DTS and Auro 3D versions yourself. I know I have Atmos (from the 2D disc included), DTS (from the 3D version, although I think it's only 5.1 so not so great to compare) and it would be a simple matter to combine them for a local streaming version to have both plus Auro 3D. I think Atmos + 3D barely fits on an actual disc, though so you'd have to burn a separate disc with Auro and 3D if you wanted it. A 2D disc could probably hold all three. But until 4K is easier to extract and remux, getting 4K with the soundtrack of your choice might be difficult at best, even if you're willing to spend the money to do it.

I'm currently looking at replacing my old Yamaha 7.1 (pre-True HD and Master HD with component inputs tied to an HDMI switcher for now) receiver with something newer, but it seems like the longer I wait, the more features and updates get put into these receivers. I keep figuring they'll settle down sooner or later but then HDR+ just showed up recently as well. I've been looking at Yamaha again for the presence/dialog lift feature (can't seem to find out if anyone else offers anything similar), but I'd rather have Denon or some other brand for Audyssey or Dirac room correction so it's a bit of a compromise. It doesn't appear Yamaha offers Auro 3D period either (I think it would be easier to change my current layout to Auro 3D/DTS than Dolby's prescribed Atmos, but then I've heard Atmos sounds pretty good over Auro 3D layout, despite what Dolby might want you to think.

I'm particularly irritated that for decades, Dolby said to use side or rear surrounds above ear level (which happens to line up with my drop-down screen anyway putting current sounds both in a straight line and yet overhead as well from the listening couch) and now wants you to not only tear down those speakers and put them elsewhere, but mount horrible looking speakers on the ceiling when in a narrow room, at least, high side-wall mounted surrounds will image overhead between the speakers anyway and it seems like the logical mixer could make them balance in-between more than towards the extremes if the position isn't exactly where they want it. No no no. Dolby says use up-firing speakers instead.... Yeah, those sound SO MUCH BETTER than a real speaker mounted high on the side walls...(if you like the sound coming from the up-firing speakers; I haven't heard a set yet that really sounds like it's up there instead of coming from the speaker).

This is the layout I'm dealing with currently (the photo is older; there's an Epson 3100 there and some source changes, etc. but you can see the front at least. The layout diagram shows the rest. The trick is to try and find a good solution despite the half bathroom and sliding door in the back of the room (not to mention the outboard fireplace behind the couch area, making side symmetrical placements and back-wall ones problematic at best, which is why I'm currently using 6.1 instead of 7.1 speakers (plus to get three identical front speakers under the screen, I only had one left over, so it seemed like a good solution back in 2007. I had to turn the back speaker around to avoid the "sounds like it's in front of you" effect with just one speaker, but otherwise, it sounds pretty good. PSB are neutral speakers and the DT sub (despite being over 22 years old now) plays pretty flat to 21Hz.

I've been looking at various PSB speakers that might work. I'm thinking something like a set of Alphas on the second tier bookcase might work as a front presence/dialog lift and/or front height channel. The side surrounds are right in line with that so perhaps adding a set of "bed" speakers to the sides or just behind the couch would work along with a second rear speaker (even if they're not terribly far apart) for a 7.1.4 configuration that could also do Auro 3D 9.1. What do you guys think?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Home Theater Photo Resized.jpg
Views:	72
Size:	162.1 KB
ID:	2421344   Click image for larger version

Name:	Home Theater Layout.jpg
Views:	50
Size:	93.4 KB
ID:	2421346  

Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 1-31-20)

Last edited by MagnumX; 06-27-2018 at 10:34 PM.
MagnumX is offline  
post #5530 of 6505 Old 06-27-2018, 08:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MagnumX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,465
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1458 Post(s)
Liked: 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I disagree. Atmos is a far better format than either Auro 3D or dts:X. Atmos is the only true object based format scales from 2.0.2 to 24.1.10 speaker layouts. Auro3D is channel based and dts:X releases have been mostly channel based even though objects are supported. Auro/Barco developed Auromax which is object based but seems to be commercial cinema only. I can't see anyone arguing that against Atmos being the best immersive format.

Now, if the discussion is regarding upconversion you may get varying opinions. I happen to like Auromatic and dts Neural X better than Dolby Surround.
I'm sorry, but what does the "superior" object format have to do with actual IMMERSION with sound? Are most of us here at home building 24.1.10 layouts? No. Atmos has scaling, but it's expecting a WAREHOUSE to be your room. DTS:X is at least in theory supposed to conform to your room's layout, not the other way around (given most of us can't afford to make our own rooms to fit Dolby's whims). I keep reading how people who have heard a proper Auro 3D setup find it sounding like real life instead of a movie theater. I've never heard anyone describe Atmos like that. Yeah, it's great for "rain" coming down from the ceiling. What about side height placement or rear corners or the middle of the back of the room even? What does it sound like with these up-firing crap speakers or soundbars? Superior? How? You can scale it to fit a warehouse? Yippee.

Frankly, it would have been nice if Dolby, DTS and Auro could have played nice with each other and made some accommodations in the steering logic, at least to support broader layouts than some strict setup that is harder to align than a radio telescope. Ideally, you should be able to tell the logic controller/receiver where your speakers are (as in what you could make work in your room) and it should take care of the rest in terms of panning and delay times so the sound comes out of the nearby speakers or combinations when appropriate. Instead, you tell the receiver you have a middle overhead speaker (great for Atmos) and DTS just ignores them. Tell DTS they're in the front or back and they suddenly work. You just got to love format wars and making the public waste their money on standards, some of which end up nowhere (poor HD-DVD owners).

Of course, it'd also be nice if you could get the format your room is set up for a movie you want to see. I can't believe in 2018, they can't make OPTIONS available, particularly for streaming formats which can pretty much have as many duplicates/variations as the hard drive servers can hold. But instead, you can't even get Apple to support Dolby Atmos, despite it having Dolby Vision. That's because they never believed in anything beyond 5.1 for ages since most of the general public watches movies on their phones with BT headphones are perfectly content with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post
Who said anything else? Are you the sole person in your home? We're four and I built the theater for five. There would only be a working Atmos sound in ONE position out of those five - and not only that... ALL the other four will have individually different experiences. I'm not buying into that that is a good idea. The system is supposed to reproduce the movie sound, not create it's own interpretations for most everyone.

- "Didn't you just love the spaceship hovering right above you?"
- "It wasn't right above me, it was in front of me and to the right"
- "No it wasn't, it was behind me to the left..."

A well thought through system would not have this issue... Atmos was obviously designed by people thinking "we can do this!" and not people thinking "is this the right thing to do?". It works for ONE person, or possibly a few located near MLP in a much larger room.
I'm sorry, but why is Atmos only correct for one position or at least any LESS correct relative to any other format? How is ANY surround format "identical" for every single person? You are still dealing with imaging between speakers and you simply cannot sit the exact distance from speakers in ANY layout I'm aware of that would produce the same precise experience for everyone involved (maybe binaural headphones, which I'm sure people would love as much as they do wearing 3D glasses during a movie).

Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 1-31-20)

Last edited by MagnumX; 06-27-2018 at 08:55 PM.
MagnumX is offline  
post #5531 of 6505 Old 06-27-2018, 10:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MagnumX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,465
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1458 Post(s)
Liked: 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Just to be clear: Auro-Matic doesn't do any extraction or logic steering like other surround processing modes, instead it copies entire channels from the base layer to the height layer.
So isn't this basically like a slightly more advanced 11-channel stereo mode except that it copies 7.1 to the height channels instead of stereo to all the channels? What does it do with Atmos sources? Just use the 7.1 base program and then copy them to heights? Or do the height channels go to the height channels or are they folded into the lower surround channels and then all dumped in the height channels? Doesn't that create a big soupy mess? Couldn't you just wire a second set of speakers above your 'bed' speakers in parallel (assuming your amps can handle the lower impedance)? Other than any reverb/delay, what's the difference?

Frankly, how's it all that different from my current setup where I use high bipoles on the side walls for surround. They're a bit in-between "all around" and "pin-point) and thus not entirely different from having two sets of speakers (high and low) doing the same thing. Yeah, they sound good in 5.1/6.1, but it's not new. This just kind of sounds like putting vertical arrays into 7.1 sound and hoping whatever sounds go where they might sound interesting rather than direct control sending sounds where they want them to be (height wise that is). Or is there something else going on here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Like on Last Week Tonight with John Oliver...

"Auro... How is This Still a Thing?"

...

Who cares. Seriously. The Dolby Atmos version of the soundtrack is superior.
So you're just here to dump on other people's parade? I think that's called trolling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Any rumblings of 11.1 (7+4) support for other D+M models below the flagship?


Shouldn't there really be a 15.1 mode so you can have surround back height speakers too?

Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 1-31-20)

Last edited by MagnumX; 06-27-2018 at 10:44 PM.
MagnumX is offline  
post #5532 of 6505 Old 06-27-2018, 11:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MagnumX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,465
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1458 Post(s)
Liked: 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post
Idiots.... they are selling licenses also because other people want other systems and their license is paid for in that machine too.... If this means Auro3D dies.... then I probably won't upgrade my system EVER (as long as it stays alive)


Edit: Just messaged them about it too...
We used to have laws against anti-competitive practices in my country designed purely to monopolize a market. They are almost never enforced (applicable or not). The problem here is CONTENT. I can't really choose to get The Matrix in Auro3D or Blade Runner 2049 in DTS:X (DTS 5.1 at best on the 3D disc). I *ALREADY* don't have a choice 99% of the time (ordering a German version of Jumangi withstanding). Worse yet, with rather "incompatible" (if you actually "believe" the "guidelines" as gospel) speaker layouts, it's not even just about the format. It's about CAN I MAKE THIS WORK IN MY ROOM? The answer is NO, I cannot (short of crappy bounce speakers). Oddly, I think an Auro 3D 9.1 (or newer 11.1 counting rear surround speakers) will work in my home theater room. It's then reasonably compatible with DTS. I'm sure Atmos would "work" given the height speakers are basically just further apart and one foot under the ceiling), but it's not optimal. Until I actually do it, I won't know what works best. And now I guess I'll never know since Dolby decided to behave like organized crime and DEMAND everyone fall in line and buy only their stuff.

Frankly, I think their attitude SUCKS and this is the kind of thing that deserves a flipping BOYCOTT of Dolby products, IMO. Capitalism is all about competition and killing the competition might make some people richer, but it makes the consumers' lives MISERABLE with no choices and high prices and that's why laws were once made. Products should compete on their own merits. It's not like a single new receiver was not going to include Atmos chips. No no no. The problem is they want DTS and Auro3D to DIE by choking the life out of them. They know the speaker layouts don't play very nice with each other and the alternative upmixer was the playfield leveler. It wasn't going to make more BDs with Auro3D appear any time soon, but it might some day lead to something down the road (e.g. DTS was hardly found on DVDs and Laserdiscs compared to Dolby Digital but DTS was HUGE on 2K Blu-Ray.)

The problem is that's literally impossible short of just never buying a receiver again. It won't really work. The industry would need to play hardball with Dolby more than the consumer here. If all the makers of receivers simply threatened to remove Atmos support from all their future products, I think Dolby would cave in about 2 minutes flat because this would give DTS a HUGE leg up with X and that they don't want. Sadly, I can't really see people having marches against Dolby in the streets. 99.99% of all people on Earth simply DON'T CARE (or even know).

I was leaning towards a Denon receiver (especially since Yamaha's YPAO system sucks), but if Auro 3D is about to become useless in the US, at least Yamaha's vocal lift feature would still be handy and maybe, just maybe their "virtual" speakers (still allowed since it's Yamaha's DSP) could fill in some gaps in the Atmos layout problem I've got here. I'm just reading along and finally come to a nice speaker layout solution and then BAM! Out of nowhere, Dolby killed any reason to get Auro 3D in the US since the upmixer and speaker layout was probably the only thing going for it here.
vn800art likes this.

Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 1-31-20)
MagnumX is offline  
post #5533 of 6505 Old 06-28-2018, 01:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,610
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 856 Post(s)
Liked: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
I'm sorry, but why is Atmos only correct for one position or at least any LESS correct relative to any other format? How is ANY surround format "identical" for every single person? You are still dealing with imaging between speakers and you simply cannot sit the exact distance from speakers in ANY layout I'm aware of that would produce the same precise experience for everyone involved
Well, the difference is what format lends itself to speaker arrays instead of individual speakers. Atmos is NOT made with speaker arrays in mind, and would be very hard to adapt it to on a personal basis as well. Auro3D on the other hand is not just possible to adapt to it - they even show it themselves in their layouts. And since your sense of direction is based on the first arriving sound ( or sounds depending on how short the time delay is ) you can make several people have the same (general) sense of direction even if sitting in different places. I'm already doing this in 5.1/7.1 with the side surrounds, and they same approach is possible with the middle tier Auro3d surrounds, and the Voice of God. (have tried that... I can have all five seats in my cinema hear the direction as up with four speakers for that channel).

If you would even try to do that for four Atmos top speakers... that would be SIXTEEN speakers... and the clutter aside, they might even end up needing to share the same physical space making it even harder.

100% identical isn't possible, but Atmos is close to 0% identical, so if you can at least manage 75% identical - then it's in my book a huge benefit... For me it's ridiculous that if having five seats in the cinema, only one would hear what was Director's intent when making the movie... effects ending up in the wrong (and from seat to seat varying) location might be fun possibly, but there's for sure no high fidelity to it

Codename - the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #5534 of 6505 Old 06-28-2018, 01:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MagnumX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,465
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1458 Post(s)
Liked: 933
If the point on the screen is the same for all viewers and a rocket launched on-screen into the back of the room, which is more realistic? Everyone in the theater hears the same thing or the rocket travels along an actual flight path through the theater that might vary depending on where you're sitting? Personally, I think the overhead alignments are stupid with Atmos. It's not realistic for a home system so most people end up with those ceiling bounce speakers (go soundbars!) and how is THAT what ANYONE intended? I'm starting to think between my room being a nightmare for making Atmos work well without playing with fishing wires through the ceiling and putting ugly boxes up there (and then wondering how it will actually sound after it's too late to change anything easily) when Auro 3D looked so much easier. All I'd need is bed speakers behind the couch, some bookshelf speakers (ironically on the books shelves alongside the projection screen and I'm done for 9.1 Auro 3D. Turn on the rear channels X and DD/DTS 6.1/7.1 titles and everything would work perfect except Atmos. Sadly, Atmos seems to be the only game in town in the US (not too many DTS:X titles so far) and you never get a choice between X and Atmos so you're pretty much stuck with a system that won't work as well for another.

Meanwhile, commercial cinemas can just order a Dolby mix or an Auro 3D mix (I guess DTS is long gone in theaters...to bad; I always like their trailers). I don't even see THX theaters around here anymore. None of them wanted to pay Lucasfilm huge licensing fees for something no longer all that relevant these days. I miss the THX trailers (fortunately, there's a CinemaVision plugin for Kodi that let's me run them all before a movie along with other trailers of my choice).

Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 1-31-20)
MagnumX is offline  
post #5535 of 6505 Old 06-28-2018, 02:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,610
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 856 Post(s)
Liked: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
If the point on the screen is the same for all viewers and a rocket launched on-screen into the back of the room, which is more realistic?
Since everyone sees the same picture, so if the rocket is supposed to travel straight over your head, it should sound straight over your head to all. Not above to the left for some and above to the right for some. That's that Atmos does... everyone off center is hearing the closest height speaker most, so the direction is scewed. (Also in the front to back direction when you have multiple rows.)

If the picture was truly 3-dimensional so the travel vector would LOOK different to individual seats, then individual sounds would be fine... but it's not. Everyone IS watching the same movie, so why on earth should it SOUND different based on where you sit?

Codename - the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #5536 of 6505 Old 06-28-2018, 03:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MagnumX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,465
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1458 Post(s)
Liked: 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post
Since everyone sees the same picture, so if the rocket is supposed to travel straight over your head, it should sound straight over your head to all. Not above to the left for some and above to the right for some. That's that Atmos does... everyone off center is hearing the closest height speaker most, so the direction is scewed. (Also in the front to back direction when you have multiple rows.)

If the picture was truly 3-dimensional so the travel vector would LOOK different to individual seats, then individual sounds would be fine... but it's not. Everyone IS watching the same movie, so why on earth should it SOUND different based on where you sit?
I'm saying in REALITY, if a whistling bottle rocket flew out of a very large screen theater straight down the center into the back of the room, the people to the left are going to hear it on their right while the people on the right of it will hear it on their left and the people in the center will hear it go straight overhead. How would it make any sense at all for ME sitting on the left side of the theater to hear it directly overhead (same as the guy in the center of the theater)? It didn't go straight over MY head because I'm 100 feet to the left of center. It should go straight down the middle of the theater like it would in reality because in that theater I clearly do NOT have the same view of the screen as the guy sitting in the center of the theater. He's lined up with the bottle rocket and I'm lined up with Jethro running for safety after he lights it.

In other words, should sounds match what is happening on the screen or should they just match some generic pattern made for the guy sitting dead center middle of the auditorium? Yes, the sound engineer might be sitting in that equivalent seat in his sound room, but that doesn't mean he's not lining up the sound effects to match what is happening on the screen. And YES, I think all movies should have the dialogue panned to match the screen. It's night and day better watching Toy Story 2 with the voices actually coming from the characters on the screen instead of just in the middle. That's stupid to have them only in the middle. If someone at home can't manage to line up their speakers properly, that's their problem as far as I'm concerned.

Even a TV with just two speakers would place the sounds correctly if you're sitting in the middle. I just got my mother a 5.1 soundbar system for her living room (I set her up a home theater in her family room). It's the same width as the TV and for such a cheap price ($250 with bass module and two surround speakers and a sound bar with three speakers in it), it's pretty neat (music sounds darn good on it considering). But even it puts the dialog in the proper place in that 44" set with movies like Toy Story.

In other words, the sounds should come from the source of the sound or otherwise, WTF is the point of having all these speakers if they aren't producing sounds coming from where the people/objects are on the screen (or where they're heading off-screen)? We might as well just have one monophonic speaker array doing everything like the old days. Problem solved.

Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 1-31-20)
MagnumX is offline  
post #5537 of 6505 Old 06-28-2018, 03:20 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,610
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 856 Post(s)
Liked: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
I'm saying in REALITY, if a whistling bottle rocket flew out of a very large screen theater straight down the center into the back of the room, the people to the left are going to hear it on their right while the people on the right of it will hear it on their left and the people in the center will hear it go straight overhead. How would it make any sense at all for ME sitting on the left side of the theater to hear it directly overhead (same as the guy in the center of the theater)? It didn't go straight over MY head because I'm 100 feet to the left of center. It should go straight down the middle of the theater like it would in reality because in that theater I clearly do NOT have the same view of the screen as the guy sitting in the center of the theater. He's lined up with the bottle rocket and I'm lined up with Jethro running for safety after he lights it.
If you don't have 100 feet big cinema room at home, that's not a very applicable comment regarding home theater, is it? You will not have a significantly different experience of the video when sitting 4 feet away from the "director's seat".

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
In other words, should sounds match what is happening on the screen or should they just match some generic pattern made for the guy sitting dead center middle of the auditorium?
Front speakers should match location on screen. And they're uncomplicated as the angular differences with regards to the speakers vary quite less from seat to seat compared to surround speakers.

Quote:
In other words, the sounds should come from the source of the sound or otherwise, WTF is the point of having all these speakers if they aren't producing sounds coming from where the people/objects are on the screen (or where they're heading off-screen)?
Yes, but why are you disagreeing with me then? That's exactly what the problem is... that sounds with Atmos isn't coming from where they are supposed to be with regards to the visual cues and director's intent, but from what happens to be the closest surround speaker based on your seat!

Codename - the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #5538 of 6505 Old 06-28-2018, 03:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MagnumX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,465
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1458 Post(s)
Liked: 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post
If you don't have 100 feet big cinema room at home, that's not a very applicable comment regarding home theater, is it? You will not have a significantly different experience of the video when sitting 4 feet away from the "director's seat".
If I sit next to the surround right speaker in a 5.1 or even 7.1 system, there isn't a chance in hell it's going to sound the same level as the surround left speaker from that location or stereo image between them correctly (i.e. there's no center surround speaker). It's just not possible with stereo panning and sitting too close to anything. You'd need point speakers for every possible location in the room. The more you have, the less the error. But don't kid yourself, there would always be error.

Quote:
Front speakers should match location on screen.
But they usually don't. The center speaker is mostly used for dialogue, particularly in older films and the dialog does not pan in ~95% of the movies out there. That's not the fault of the speakers or the system. That fault lies with the sound director.

Quote:
Yes, but why are you disagreeing with me then? That's exactly what the problem is... that sounds with Atmos isn't coming from where they are supposed to be with regards to the visual cues and director's intent, but from what happens to be the closest surround speaker based on your seat!
I was under the impression Atmos (and theoretically DTS: X) uses objects that can be mapped throughout a larger theater setup and thus would not come from the nearest surround speaker, but from the correct/desired surround speaker as it moves through the room as opposed to channel-based sound where the sounds just pan between speakers or arrays of speakers. If that's not the case, then I fail to see how Atmos would be any different from Auro or DTS in object placement. Object based to me means the sound itself can move around the room itself (with enough speakers) like a coordinate system instead of just panning between a set number of channels. Thus, theoretically, you could just keep scaling it up with more and more speakers and the system would just place the objects in space that much more accurately instead of some vacuous "somewhere" between two (side and back) surround arrays. Again, if that's not how it works than I've fundamentally misunderstood Atmos in general and I'm talking out my arse.

Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 1-31-20)
MagnumX is offline  
post #5539 of 6505 Old 06-28-2018, 05:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,610
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 856 Post(s)
Liked: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
If I sit next to the surround right speaker in a 5.1 or even 7.1 system, there isn't a chance in hell it's going to sound the same level as the surround left speaker from that location or stereo image between them correctly (i.e. there's no center surround speaker). It's just not possible with stereo panning and sitting too close to anything. You'd need point speakers for every possible location in the room. The more you have, the less the error. But don't kid yourself, there would always be error.
Most conventional speakers have that problem, yes. My surround speakers drop off the more you sit close and below them, though... so when you move sideways, the closest one gets softer and the one on the other side louder. It's been thought about the use case when they were designed. They're also made with higher than normal impedance to be used 2-3 in parallel per channel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
I was under the impression Atmos (and theoretically DTS: X) uses objects that can be mapped throughout a larger theater setup and thus would not come from the nearest surround speaker, but from the correct/desired surround speaker as it moves through the room as opposed to channel-based sound where the sounds just pan between speakers or arrays of speakers. If that's not the case, then I fail to see how Atmos would be any different from Auro or DTS in object placement. Object based to me means the sound itself can move around the room itself (with enough speakers) like a coordinate system instead of just panning between a set number of channels. Thus, theoretically, you could just keep scaling it up with more and more speakers and the system would just place the objects in space that much more accurately instead of some vacuous "somewhere" between two (side and back) surround arrays. Again, if that's not how it works than I've fundamentally misunderstood Atmos in general and I'm talking out my arse.
It isn't any different for home usage really... the cinematic full version can do what you think, home version is folded down to channels. Had it been a full version, then you would not be locked into particular speaker locations - it could have decoded it unto any speaker mapping given the speaker placement supplied to it (by input or some measurement technique). There are not 128 free object streams in the data on a BluRay.

As it lies... the real benefit is mainly that the sound engineer has a system with much higher degree of sound control... and secondly a higher accuracy for cinemas. Home version is a hack to fold it down into existing disc format instead of looking at making a new standard for upcoming disc formats. Which, of course, also Auro3D and DTS:X have done, so no difference there...

Codename - the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #5540 of 6505 Old 06-28-2018, 09:09 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Whittier, CA
Posts: 28,466
Mentioned: 239 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7557 Post(s)
Liked: 6717
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
So isn't this basically like a slightly more advanced 11-channel stereo mode except that it copies 7.1 to the height channels instead of stereo to all the channels?
Yes, each height speaker gets most of its content from the downstairs neighbor, a little less from adjacent channels, and the least amount from the channel diagonally opposite. For example: the left height speaker is fed mostly the left channel, a little less of the right channel & left surround channel, and even less of the right surround channel.
Quote:
What does it do with Atmos sources? Just use the 7.1 base program and then copy them to heights?
Yes, it upmixes the 7.1 core. Same with DTS:X sources.
Quote:
Or is there something else going on here?
High frequencies are rolled off and reverb is added.
Quote:
Shouldn't there really be a 15.1 mode so you can have surround back height speakers too?
In an Auro 15.1 layout, the rear heights are copies of the surround heights. It's still 13.1 channels, with each surround height channel being split to two speakers. Still, 15.1 capability would let you level match, time align and EQ the rear height speakers, even if they are getting the same content as the surround heights.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #5541 of 6505 Old 06-28-2018, 10:00 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Whittier, CA
Posts: 28,466
Mentioned: 239 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7557 Post(s)
Liked: 6717
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
Atmos has scaling, but it's expecting a WAREHOUSE to be your room.
Atmos isn't based on any size room. Even in a small domestic sized room, you can put pairs of height speakers high up on the front & back walls and evenly split that gap with 3 more pairs. Even if your room length is only 8 feet, that's still 2 feet of separation between each height pair. So, no WAREHOUSE needed to accommodate all 10 Atmos height speakers.
Quote:
DTS:X is at least in theory supposed to conform to your room's layout, not the other way around (given most of us can't afford to make our own rooms to fit Dolby's whims).
None of the 3 immersive audio formats does positional rendering, so let's not pretend that this is only a problem for Dolby but not the other formats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
Object based to me means the sound itself can move around the room itself (with enough speakers) like a coordinate system instead of just panning between a set number of channels. Thus, theoretically, you could just keep scaling it up with more and more speakers and the system would just place the objects in space that much more accurately instead of some vacuous "somewhere" between two (side and back) surround arrays.
You can have plenty of sounds moving between channels without every using objects. That's how stereophonic reproduction has always worked. The benefit of objects is the scaling you describe as well as the ability to adapt to larger speaker counts. Since all 3 immersive audio formats start with the same 7 speaker locations in the base layer, you would have to go beyond that to get benefits from object-based playback.
smurraybhm and Nightlord like this.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #5542 of 6505 Old 06-28-2018, 08:34 PM
Advanced Member
 
Sal1950's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Central FL
Posts: 945
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked: 834
I have a 5.2.4 system that I optimized speaker position for Atmos best I could. I doubt I'll ever get any bluray or other discrete Auro sources in the future but would like to ask this of users here.
Do you believe the Auro-matic upmixing of stereo sources to be worth the $200 cost it will be to upgrade my Marantz AV7703? I'm not really happy with the Dolby and DTS systems available, in fact preferred the the PL II upmixer that was a option on my older AV7701.

Would really like the opinions of some here that enjoy multich upmixing of stereo.
TIA

Sony XBR75-X940D, Samsung UBD-K8500, Xfinity X1 Voice DVR, Marantz AV-7703 Pre/Pro w/Auro, (3) Adcom GFA-545II amps, (2) Adcom GFA-535II amps for ATMOS speakers.
HSU Research 5.2 speaker system (4) HB-1 MK2, (1) HC-1 MK2, (2) STF-2,
Klipsch HT500 satellites (4) for ceiling mounted ATMOS playback
DIY Linux desktop w/Strawberry bit perfect media center. Emotiva Stealth DC-1 DAC
Sal1950 is offline  
post #5543 of 6505 Old 06-28-2018, 09:00 PM
Member
 
lurkalot2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Podunk west Michigan
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
I have a 5.2.4 system that I optimized speaker position for Atmos best I could. I doubt I'll ever get any bluray or other discrete Auro sources in the future but would like to ask this of users here.
Do you believe the Auro-matic upmixing of stereo sources to be worth the $200 cost it will be to upgrade my Marantz AV7703? I'm not really happy with the Dolby and DTS systems available, in fact preferred the the PL II upmixer that was a option on my older AV7701.

Would really like the opinions of some here that enjoy multich upmixing of stereo.
TIA
It was well worth it for me on my 7702 especially for music, and if you like bullets and explosions coming out of the side walls and ceiling, aircraft fly buys, you should like it. For me it eased the pain coming from a MC12-HD.
vn800art likes this.

MARANTZ 7702 with Auro Upgrade
Monitor radius 90 (FH) and (SH)
VOG Golden Ear Invisia 525
lurkalot2 is offline  
post #5544 of 6505 Old 06-29-2018, 01:51 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 377
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Liked: 77
For me (Sr7011) the difference and most enjoying listening time is in 2 channels music listening, upmixed with Auromatic. Best of all for music. Next come Multichannel stereo (but usually I then switch to Stereo direct, thanks to my 2 Klipsch Cornwall as fronts, externally amplified).
As film is concerned, Atmos stays in Atmos, Dts Hd Ma can be upmixed in Auro3d (choose the best one You like).
So, for me it's worth the 200$ cost for upgrade (I'm in Europe, btw).
Regards
Alessandro

Marantz Sr7011, Galactron Mk10b, Pioneer VsxLx50. Klipsch Cornwall, Wharfedale 9.1, Klipsch CP-6. Sony UbpX800, Lg Up970, Hisense 55M5500. 110 inches rolling screen, excelvan cl720d.
vn800art is offline  
post #5545 of 6505 Old 06-29-2018, 06:05 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
smurraybhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Down South
Posts: 4,718
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2354 Post(s)
Liked: 3253
It was a waste of $ for me, but everyone's different so if the $200 isn't a big deal why not give it a shot? Especially if you're not happy with Neural or DSU. No other options short of getting an old receiver for PLII. Only other suggestions would be to experiment with your speaker levels and/or center channel spread.

There is no perfect display, quit looking for faults and enjoy

LG OLED 77" C9, 65” B7a and 55” C8
Ascend's with RAAL, Outlaw monoblocks, PSA v1800 and a 7.2.4 speaker config, Oppo 203 and other stuff
smurraybhm is online now  
post #5546 of 6505 Old 06-29-2018, 08:24 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ted99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,041
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1010 Post(s)
Liked: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
I have a 5.2.4 system that I optimized speaker position for Atmos best I could. I doubt I'll ever get any bluray or other discrete Auro sources in the future but would like to ask this of users here.
Do you believe the Auro-matic upmixing of stereo sources to be worth the $200 cost it will be to upgrade my Marantz AV7703? I'm not really happy with the Dolby and DTS systems available, in fact preferred the the PL II upmixer that was a option on my older AV7701.

Would really like the opinions of some here that enjoy multich upmixing of stereo.
TIA
I have the full 13.1 speaker setup in the Auro configuration for use with my Denon X8500 (no upcharge for Auro). I use the Auromatic upmixer, now; rather than Neural in my HT. Since most of my disc viewing is from Netflix and 2K, most of the soundtracks are DD or DTS. For me, the DSU upmixer, the Neural upmixer, or the Auromatic upmixer didn't magically make non-Atmos or DTS:X soundtracks into 3D soundtracks. What I did find, though; is that the music soundtracks in Auromatic simply enveloped the room rather than sounding like they were coming from speakers. Since most of the discs I watch do not have native 3D soundtracks, I have concluded that for me, I really like the sound of Auromatic because of it's effect on music.
vn800art likes this.

JVC RS600 Chad-callibrated, 120" 1.3g in Batcave HT, Denon X8500 Polk LSiM703 fronts,
RTi-12 rears, LSiM 706 center, Monitor 40 Heights, Monitor 60 FW, Emotiva E1 sides,
LSiC CH, Infinity 6" VOG. 4X 12" subs w/mini DSP on sub 1 and nearfield 18" from sub 2.
Ted99 is offline  
post #5547 of 6505 Old 06-29-2018, 10:25 AM
Advanced Member
 
Sal1950's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Central FL
Posts: 945
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
I have a 5.2.4 system that I optimized speaker position for Atmos best I could. I doubt I'll ever get any bluray or other discrete Auro sources in the future but would like to ask this of users here.
Do you believe the Auro-matic upmixing of stereo sources to be worth the $200 cost it will be to upgrade my Marantz AV7703? I'm not really happy with the Dolby and DTS systems available, in fact preferred the the PL II upmixer that was a option on my older AV7701.

Would really like the opinions of some here that enjoy multich upmixing of stereo.
TIA
Thanks gentlemen for the responses to my post so far. Yes my main interest here is in the upmixing of 2 channel stereo music sources. I don't expect or want some phony discreet effect with individual sounds coming from the surround and ceiling speakers. What I look and hope for is a more subtle effect of the walls (ceiling?) disappearing with a sense of ambience that more closely resembles hearing music in a live environment. I'm going to sit on this a bit and do some more homework before throwing down the $200 but it is beginning to look like a promising option.
TIA, Sal
Ted99 and vn800art like this.

Sony XBR75-X940D, Samsung UBD-K8500, Xfinity X1 Voice DVR, Marantz AV-7703 Pre/Pro w/Auro, (3) Adcom GFA-545II amps, (2) Adcom GFA-535II amps for ATMOS speakers.
HSU Research 5.2 speaker system (4) HB-1 MK2, (1) HC-1 MK2, (2) STF-2,
Klipsch HT500 satellites (4) for ceiling mounted ATMOS playback
DIY Linux desktop w/Strawberry bit perfect media center. Emotiva Stealth DC-1 DAC
Sal1950 is offline  
post #5548 of 6505 Old 07-08-2018, 02:38 AM
Member
 
satsok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
I have them all . (Movies that is)

Earlier Auro had the lacking surround backs, but now that that is fixed there is no downsides to Auro. In my comparisons of the Atmos vs Auro tracks they both sound rather similar, only Auro can not only convey height, but also depth. By that i mean that you can hear how far away/above the sound is, so if for example if you hear two airplanes from above, you can hear a difference in how high they both are. Pretty cool actually. Also in ambiance, for example in the jungle in Jumanji, it sounds more real in Auro.

And i feel the LFE is a little hotter too in the Auro tracks. Haven’t measured that, but i notice it each movie.

However, if both tracks is drawn from the same mix, or each is started from scratch is another issue. I seem to remember someone mentioning something about that earlier.

Auro have mostly classical music releases, but the Tiesto and Licthmond in the pic is pretty cool
these movies play all auro 3d/pcm ?

Sandy S likes this.
satsok is offline  
post #5549 of 6505 Old 07-08-2018, 02:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 4,342
Mentioned: 413 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked: 4141
Quote:
Originally Posted by satsok View Post
these movies play all auro 3d/pcm ?

Yes. But they are Europe releases, like UK and DE. No Auro3D on these in US releases.
satsok likes this.

Dual AVR 13.1.8 SWAtmos - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 6xSI18" - 12xJBL 12" w/6xSLAPS M12 downfiring VNF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE Dual TR Sleds- 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XB1X - ATV4K - Vertex2 - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873.
>>>>Nalleh’s HT<<<<
Nalleh is online now  
post #5550 of 6505 Old 07-11-2018, 05:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MagnumX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,465
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1458 Post(s)
Liked: 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Auro encoding folds an 11.1 mix down to 5.1 channels for backwards compatibility. To save storage space on the disc, the 5.1 Auro encoded track is losslessly packed using DTS-MA. For all intents & purposes, it appears as a 5.1 DTS track.
Does Auro 3D default back to anything without Auro 3D processing? In other words, is it DTS 7.1 + Auro3D on top of it (like X is on top of DTS or Atmos is on top of TrueHD) or would playing one of these Blu-Rays in a system without Auro 3D result in NO SOUND what-so-ever (short of using a foreign language track)?

Edit: BTW, I see that Amazon India also carries Blade Runner 2049 with Auro 3D (different disc from the one from Poland). I don't think they will ship to the USA directly, though, but I think there's a guy on eBay that imports Indian titles (Rahul?). 1000 Rupees ~= $14.55. That's a better price than the Poland import if only they would ship to the US directly. With a middle man, it's probably more.

Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 1-31-20)

Last edited by MagnumX; 07-11-2018 at 06:12 PM.
MagnumX is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off