Correct.

No, it doesn't assume that.

Do you mean an aimable tweeter? If the speaker itself cannot be aimed, that certainly provides an advantage.

Pro isn't available yet and won't be any time soon except on the Altitude. I've combined Atmos, Auro and DTS:X together (click my THEATER button in my signature to see what I did) for 11.1.6. I've used both matrix and steering extraction to get around the top middle limitation and other speaker location limitations including 11-channel DTS:X (they work in all three). The rest is overblown, IMO. Side heights and ceiling speakers both work fine in either format unless you ceiling is over maybe 10 feet high. The whole "perfect angles" thing can get ridiculous. The main thing is to minimize angles between speakers (over 20 degrees and under 60, IMO. Come to think of it, that's a good guideline for "reasonable" height as well). DTS:X at 30 degrees sounds just fine (it does not need to be 45 or 60). There are too many on here OBSESSED with perfect angles when few rooms are suitable to a "no compromise" layout. All I know is surround sound (even with 2-channel converted with Neural X or Dolby Surround) has never sounded better here. I watched The Orville's newest episode off iTunes last night in Neural X and you'd swear it was Atmos. Things hitting the ship are above and around. It was sweet.

Thanks; interesting thoughts. I want to avoid custom speaker switching if possible although in my case I have a full RS232 base automation setup so I could actually just switch based on the codecs detected by the prepro but to be honest I don't think I'm quite eager enough to put the time in right now.

Will have a go at the calculations later tonight but my understanding is that maikeldepotter's suggestion will not needing speaker switching in a 7.1.6 setup although I assume one set of speakers wont be used by DTS:X and I'm not sure how current prepros map speaker sets to different formats.

Correct.

The Top Middle pair can be used with DTS:X and Auro3D as paired Overhead speaker (Oh) cq. Top Speaker. With DTS:X you could alternatively use this pair of speakers as Top Middles. With both ways, all 13 (7.x.6) main speakers can be activated with any of the three formats (provided your processor allows for such speaker assignments and DTS:X Pro is released).

I only use the speaker switching for Auro-3D "pure" versus extracted as it let's me send the rear height signal to the side height location if desired or run them both at the same time (it also lets me shrink the room in half and do 5.1.4 if I want to for some odd reason). I've found Auro-3D probably sounds better with it using rear heights + an extracted top middle too so the speaker switcher really isn't needed, after all, I think since it really sounds better the other way for movies, at least (perhaps music quad-miked might sound better with the heights directly over the sides alone?). It's certainly not needed just to add top middles that work with everything.

Hi all. I've just subscribed to this thread. We've built a new house and I just finished my HT after about 10 months in the making. I have a Marantz 8802A and a 7.2.4 Atmos setup with 4 in-ceiling speakers. I never bought the Auro upgrade but was thinking of doing it just for the heck of it. I've had an Auro 3D demo disc for a long while and have obviously never listened to it. I'm not willing to add any speakers to meet a specific Auro layout. Can I still get most of the intended experience just leaving my speakers and settings as is and just buying the upgrade and listening to some Auro content?

IMHO, don't waste your money. I did the same with my 7703 and found nothing of value. Being in the US like yourself I knew there were no discs available here unless you reach out and some of the few there actually are from overseas. As far as an up-samplers I was disappointed there too, nothing that Dolby or DTS can't do just as good. 5.2.4 rig here.

I just watched Johnny Mnemonic and Jumanji Welcome To The Jungle in Atmos and compared some heavier overhead parts in Auro-3D. Using an extracted middle, again, they sounded almost identical in those scenes. Regular Auro-3D basically is 5.1.4 with optional CH/TS channels that phantom image just fine at the MLP and center positions. Extracting a middle gives you essentially 5.1.6 (not counting my matrixed front/rear wides, although the latter does stretch the sides 2/3 into the back of the room, which combined with rear heights (all of 4 feet away) sounds hella similar to 7.1.6 from the MLP. Oddly, my switchbox lets me change Atmos to 5.1.4 quite easily at which point it REALLY DOES sound virtually identical (if there are any differences, I'm not likely to notice them).

All in all, short of a few Auro only titles (Red Tails and several music titles), I'd have to agree at this point with Sal1950. It's not really worth bothering with it when Atmos alternatives are readily available that sound either very similar or slightly better due to the rear bed surrounds (Johnny Mnemonic does have rear bed surrounds, but only if you have a fully supported 13.1 setup whereas it only needs 7.1.4 with Atmos to do essentially the same damn thing).

I also watched The Dark Tower in Auro-3D (I only have that one in Auro-3D). Strange, but kind of fun movie. The sequence at the end probably lit up the overheads more than any single scene in a movie thus far (it sounded like a "river of sound" flowing down the middle of the room (a bit past halfway in true Auro mode with just side surrounds and stretching into the back with extracted middle + rear heights). It wasn't just a "lite" phantom image (which sadly is mostly what Starship Troopers and The Fifth Element provided in their Atmos version for ceiling effects). It was lit up like a Christmas tree full blast. Pretty cool. It's not that The Fifth Element had a "bad" soundtrack, it's more like the Atmos version didn't differentiate itself enough from the previous one, IMO. With all those guns and spaceships, it should have been a blast. Sadly, it was far more subdued for overhead/rear use than I would have thought. I can't help but wonder if it I would have liked it better upmixed with Neural X instead.

I'd say the most amazing sounding "immersive" movies I've heard thus far are:

1> Jumanji (the original; way more impressive than the sequel for Atmos sound effects).
2> Harry Potter movies (virtually all of them in DTS:X have tons of believable overhead effects)
3> Crimson Peak (DTS:X sounds coming from everywhere in the room)
4> Red Tails (Auro-3D only; TONS of overhead flybys in every which direction during the movie)
5> Blade Runner (the original in Atmos) ; 2049 was the better movie, IMO if a bit drawn out, but the original goes for much stronger overhead and rear effects, IMO. 2049 was good too, though
6> The Meg (remuxed Atmos with 3D visuals, this was a GREAT fun movie with loads of overhead effects, especially when they were under water).

Some of the ones I thought were overrated I've seen in other lists include The Matrix (hardly any "strong" overhead sounds by comparison to the above), Annihilation (lots of weird synth noises all over the place, but few sounds that I'd actually "want" to hear. I kind of hated those synth noises, really) and Saving Private Ryan (very poor "side" surround when I tested it; everything seemed front/back for the most part with some overhead, but it felt less like a "bubble" than a tunnel somehow. Others like Labyrinth were just plain boring in Atmos (mostly reverb in the surrounds like the original soundtrack).

Sadly, I think I've heard more "immersion" from many 5.1 and 7.1 movies upmixed via Neural X than some of these "unaggressive" Atmos soundtracks. I know some don't want surround effects to be "distracting" but come on. I spent thousands to hear 17 channel surround sound. I want CRAZY surround! Too many soundtracks just don't cut it, IMO.

Thanks again, posted my calcs and a question in the "Bubble" thread

Agreed +1
One of my fav Atmos movies is Kong Skull Island.

I'll have to watch that one again, then sooner than planned (the last time I watched it was before my system upgrades in 3D without Atmos). Now I have it set up for Atmos with 3D (just haven't watched it again yet since I'm so far behind).

here. I watched The Orville's newest episode off iTunes last night in Neural X and you'd swear it was Atmos.

Off topic a bit. Did you watch it on Hulu using stereo and upmixing or another source on iTunes?

This. The first time I heard anything in Auro it was one of the most underwhelming experiences of my life.

I don't know what you heard, but it sounds the same as 5.1.4 Atmos with a 9.1 setup. Their primary demo got far FAR more praise by people here I was showing my system to than Atmos or X trailers precisely because the overhead content was recorded using dual quad mics, making it closer to binaural (REAL sound not the faked canned stuff movies tend to use) and sounding absolutely real (the walls just disappear) and the airplane and helicopter sounds like a REAL one flying overhead not that cheeseball Atmos helicopter effect that sounds like a toy is flying around the room. This has nothing to do with the system capability, mind you, but if you were underwhelmed, I can't imagine what you listened to.

I bought the season pass on iTunes. It's in 5.1 from Apple. It upmixes quite well.

I just watched Red Tails again in Auro-3D. This time I used the extracted "top middle" instead of engaging "true Auro-3D" with surround heights. I've got to say the movie sounds GREAT either way! I don't think there's any other title that uses the overhead/ceiling effects so darn much, not even Harry Potter (which does it a lot, but Red Tails is all fighter planes and dog fights). It's the one movie I HAVE to play off the disc, though since it's PCM only encoded (KODI can handle DTS encased Auro-3D just fine, but not PCM). I can even play 3D movies now direct off a hard drive with my Zidoo X9S player, but not Red Tails.... Still, this movie shows what Auro-3D can do. They use center height a LOT (you can tell even when it's phantom imaged). I've heard things in that position with Atmos and X, but it seems more coincidental. You can tell they were taking advantage of that speaker in the Auro layout here!

I just got Red Tails but have not fired it up yet, will watch it this weekend, we did watch Jumanji: welcome to the jungle Auro3d version last weekend, lots of great sound affects particularly the helicopter scene and the VOG speakers.

^ I agree, Red Tails is by far my best immersive sound demo disc! I am still amazed at how good that is, considering it was the first one in 3D sound.

I love the movie itself too, but hear people complain about that, and as such can’t enjoy it and the sound, but in my book it is awsome.

I can see how some aspects of the movie felt contrived or even pushing an agenda to the point where it was a little too obvious/overt while making it sound like all white pilots refused to do their job as bomber escorts as they went off chasing "ace" glory. Yeah, I don't their commanding officers would have put up with that for long in reality. Some of the interpersonal stories were mere shadows compared to the fighter pilot scenes that basically stole the show (whereas in Titanic, the boat sinking seemed almost incidental to the story, not the other way around). For instance, the Captain is said to have a drinking problem, but for the life of me, I don't recall a single scene where he acted "drunk" making the point seem almost moot as a plot device. In Titanic, the ship sinking seemed almost background incidental. Here, the war/flying background is the most interesting part. But for sheer WWII air scenes, it was great as there were a LOT of them (unlike Unbroken, where it's just the opening of the movie about something else entirely, a POW camp).

I wish there were more movies with fighter planes and WWII that had immersive sound (most are much older; e.g. The Battle of Britain was from 1969). There's a movie advertised at the start of the German disc for "Into The White" that looked interesting, but I read it doesn't even have a short scene showing them crashing (too low a budget), but does have Rupert Grint from Harry Potter fame. I'm sure it's too low budget to have had immersive sound even if it did have some fighter scenes at the start.

^^ Agreed again.

Pearl Harbour is somewhat similar(regarding cool fighter plane scenes at least), but before immersive audio. Upmixes great though

I know you've got all the Auro-3D titles. What did you think/get from the ending of The Dark Tower? It sounded like "river of audio" running across my ceiling in the final "battle" scene. Freaky cool.

I don't recall anything quite comparable to that level the rest of the movie (strange, but somewhat fun movie, but it's Stephen King based so strange comes with the territory).

I was looking to get that Russian space station movie in Auro-3D, but apparently it's only available in Russian with no English subtitles. There is an English dub/sub available elsewhere (Netflix has/had it even). I suppose I could add the English subs if I can find a download....

There's still some question whether Venom 3D/2D will have Auro-3D on the 2D disc. The Blu-Ray forum has changed to "TBA" instead of Auro-3D, but Sony did "owe" one more title for their agreement. The 2D regular disc does NOT have Atmos, so you have to go double dipping to 4K and rip/remux to put Atmos on the 3D disc. We should find out soon whether it has Auro or not (18th of Feburary I believe).

Which version do you have, I can purchase a UK version here in Australia. Does that version have auro 3D?


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German release only!
Here’s the list with links again:

1. Red Tails BD 11.1(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Red-Tails-Blu-...dp/B00B93N75W/

2. Bowling Balls BD 11.1(NL):
https://www.bol.com/nl/p/bowling-bal...0000040520739/

3. Pippa BD 11.1(NL):
https://www.bol.com/nl/p/pippa/92000...uggestedsearch

4. Pixels BD 11.1(Sony)(UK):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pixels-Blu-...pixels+blu+ray

5. Texas Chainsaw Massacre UHD 13.1(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Chainsaw-Massa...dp/B01DXIP53C/

6. Cold War 2 BD 11.1(HK):
https://www.hmv.com.hk/goods/1016492.html

7. Ghostbusters UHD 11.1(Sony)(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Ghostbusters-4...A3JWKAKR8XB7XF

8. Inferno BD 11.1 (Sony) (AU):
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_o...u+ray&_sacat=0

9. Johnny Mnemonic BD 13.1(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Vernetzt-Mnemo...ohnny+mnemonic

10. Passengers BD 11.1(Sony)(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Passengers-Blu...=UTF8&qid=&sr=

11. Spiderman Homecoming BD 11.1(Sony)(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/Spider-Man-Hom...SIN=B073WZG3SP

12. Dark Tower BD 11.1(Sony)(DE):
https://www.amazon.de/dunkle-Turm-Bl...SIN=B074JS663T

13. Flatliners BD(SONY) (UK)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Flatliners-...7121926&sr=1-2

14. Blade Runner 2049 BD 11.1(Sony) (PL)
https://www.dvdmax.pl/blade-runner-2...-ray,art663117

15. Salyut 7 BD 11.1(RS)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/263422297452

16. Jumanji: Welcome To The Jungle BD 11.1(Sony) (DE)
https://www.amazon.de/Jumanji-Willko...umanji+blu+ray

17. Patser (BD) 11.1(Gangsta)(NL)
https://www.bol.com/nl/s/algemeen/zo...all/index.html


18. Bankier Van Het Verzet (NL)
https://www.bol.com/nl/p/bankier-van...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

Thank you


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Here’s some impressions:

Generally speaking all the Sony releases with Auro is very good, and at least as good as the Atmos version. A lot is similar, but with an edge to Auro for better, more natural height content.
Ghostbusters is insane in both version with ghost height action, heck even the DTS-HD track using Neural:X is insane. All demo versions

Nothing compared to Red Tails, though

I have the russiand space movie, but as you say no english language or subtitles. Just done a preview and it is VERY good picture quality though.

Yeah, have to wait and confirm about Venom, but i am doughtful actually

Thanks Nalleh for your impressions. I don't have Dark Tower or Spiderman Homecoming in Atmos to compare, but I'll try that scene in Passengers out (I put both on the 3D file so I can switch easily to compare scenes. Based on Blade Runner 2049, I wonder if at least some of the overhead voice diffusion is due to the layout differences. I can switch Atmos to 5.1.4 and Auro to use an extracted top middle to get more even comparisons of the mixes themselves (that still leaves Auro without true rear surrounds, although my matrixed rear wides do stretch it back much further, but it does give it rear heights. At least with Blade Runner, they were then almost identical for overhead proctor voices (like the talking shower). In true Auro, the voice moved forward between side heights and front heights. Double/copy side height to rear pulled it back to a big image direct overhead sound and extracted top middle put it overhead in the middle of the room. The same happened in reverse with Atmos (voice went from extracted middle overhead to between front/middle when shrunk to 5.1.4 and then sounded nearly identical to "true Auro".

I think if Auro had made rear surrounds a priority instead of CH and TS (or at least an alternative on 11-channel AVRs) and they allowed top middle and side heights to be exchangeable, there would be no functional difference in a 9.1.6 system.

I also wonder if Atmos with true six overheads may render differently with some mixes (e.g. Using a blend of all six instead of just top middle on some cases, giving a more diffuse effect compared to extracted Pro Logic steering harder to the middle, although PLII can do a wider effect if desired and changing the FH/RH distance setting just slightly will do the same for Pro Logic I.). Plus I imagine Disney type "printed layouts" for a hard 7.1.4 wouldn't use the top middle (or wides) at all on a true discrete 9.1.6, whereas it all works fine with extracted and/or matrixed speakers (thus DTS:X sounds awesome here with Harry Potter, for example, but I'd imagine it would be disappointing on your system compared to a good true Atmos mix).

i know this has been said somewhere before but I can’t find the answer.

bass sounds great for me on altitude native mode now but with auro i get a bit too boomy. is this an issue with surround speaker bass management? is auro creating new bass output for all the surround channels and is this getting magnified? anything particular ai should be doing with the bass management or crossover settings or anything else?

i like the ambiance of auro but perhaps the bass can be tuned down a touch while it is active...

As I don't have any Auro 3D movies I just ordered "Red Tails" from Amazon.de just hope i get the proper version
I am Uk based so I also ordered "Pixels" from Amazon UK

I just ordered from them as well. Hopefully it will play on my US Oppo 203.

I tried a few links that have been posted but none of them took me to Nalleh's review of "Red Tails" ?

Here you go, reviews of Red Tails My review is a couple posts down


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ul...orth-wait.html