Originally Posted by lennart
I looked at your impressive theatre and see that you use 2 Top Middle (height) speakers for 11.1.6
Because they are left and right they phantom a speaker like is it overhead?
Yes. The simulated VOG output is a mono (correlated stereo) output through the rear height (or surround height if configured instead). The front height output is also correlated (centered between them). The end result ends up on the ceiling in-between them for a normal Auro VOG test signal. Where you put your couch/chair affects where you hear it to some extent (stereo phantom with precedent effect).
I wondered how did you derived the middle height channel audio.
You usesd 2x Onkyo ES-600 Pro, this looks a 3.0 amp and you drive the left and right sides with 2x Onkyo ES-600 Pro with the height middle L + R on the center channels for both sides?
I only use the center output on the Onkyo for each top middle channel (one unit for Left and one for Right). The L/R inputs (front and rear heights) get passed through to a stereo amplifier with the center information removed (near discrete). They run in 3-channel stereo mode so the surround uncorrelated output information (if any) go to the front/rear heights) as they would image front/back of those speakers beyond the walls if anything is in them. The VOG is only as dispersed sounding as the signal sent to it. The test signals image like any other speaker at a specific area on the ceiling.
And you can also switch to pure Auro and then switch to the VOG input from the SR7012?
Not from the 7012. I use a Monoprice 2-in/2-out speaker switchbox with dual volume control. Once set up, the volume isn't touched again on it. I press button to select either the extracted top middle signal from the Onkyo units or the rear height channel or on/off. Thus, I can send rear height to the side height speakers and they become surround height instead of rear height.
Since Auro is channel based, there is literally no difference between rear height and surround height in terms of the signal output so there is no reason to select surround height output at all as it will just disable Atmos output and nothing else. Atmos sounds fine with surround height speakers (just pulls the image slightly outward towards the middle the same as side surrounds do with any image panning around the room. Here there's less than a two foot difference so it's not really noticeable, especially if I purposely leak a bit of top middle to the front/rear heights as it then phantoms the distance between the two. It sounds like a straight line then to my ears.
Moving rear height to surround height and turning off the rear heights lets me easily configure 5.1.4 Atmos (cuts off back half of the room if I also disable rear surrounds in the 7012). I can then easily compare how a movie sounds in 5.1.4 or even 7.1.4 with front height plus top middle.
I can also leave rear surround enabled to both sets of speakers (driven in parallel then). That gives me Auro 9.1 cinema style output (rear level needs turned down 3dB to sound even then). That actually sounds surprisingly good in Atmos too from the second and third rows and brings Auro into the back of the room. Auto also sounds good with extracted middle most of the time. It's a bit like stretching the room out, especially with surround#1 carrying the signal also (bed level gets copied almost all the way to the back).
I could also play the extracted middle from the rear speakers, but that wouldn't be terribly useful. I can quickly disable either set of speakers to compare as well.
The information that the VOG channel is mixed into the FH en RH speakers (in auro 9.1 mode) for phantom VOG is new to me.
So you found out that VOG is never a discrete channel because if you have a dedicated VOG speakers that is always phantomed with the FH speakers with Auro 3D and Auro-matic upmixing?
I said I can't easily test the upmixer without actually connecting a real speaker to that output. I can test the rest through the official Auro test disc signals and listening to which speakers are active with each signal. I don't have to hear the VOG signal in the test to know it's on when it's in that channel test and it makes it easy to plainly hear the front heights are playing. Auro won't work at all without configured front heights.
Or could it be that the FH and VOG where mixed in with the demo disc and it depends on how they mixed the master?
Why would the official test tones for Auro-3D from the company erroneously use the VOG channel?
The cinema version (not Auromax but Auro-3D 11.1) is actually an array of many overhead VOG speakers so it would even make sense at home if it engaged rear heights as well, if available as that would more closely simulate a cinema array, but it doesn't for some reason, probably because it considered rear height a compromise to begin with as Auro 11.1 at home is considered to be a 5.1 based format. I don't know if Auro 13.1 on the Denon 8500 does anything differently in that regard. I think it uses unused channels as upmixed with Auromatic (more reverb than anything else).