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-   -   The official Auro 3D thread (home theater version) (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1682498-official-auro-3d-thread-home-theater-version.html)

westmd 09-12-2014 03:54 AM

The official Auro 3D thread (home theater version)
 
19 Attachment(s)
As wished by many in the Atmos forum I want to open a new thread regarding Auro 3D home theater version. Here the link to the Auro-3D homepage.
I would like to discuss here Auro specific questions like speaker setup and - layout as well as updating each other on technical Auro news like announcements of new processors and receivers.
AFAIK there are only three companies with Auro products which are announced or on the market:

Datasat with their processors LS10 and RS20i which are both on the market

Trinnov Audio with the processor Altitude 32 announced

Stormaudio with the amlifier integrated Auriga and their announced processors SSP12 and SSP16

Hopefully new processors and receivers with more market friendly prices will be announced soon!

I am especially inviting the Datasat owners to join this thread as their are the only ones who already have Auro compability and their knowledge is very important for this thread.

Please feel free to post links to videos, documents or other postings on other threads to gradually collect knowledge on Auro and make it available for everyone!

DECEMBER UPDATE

In the meantime Denon Auro upgrade and Marantz Auro upgrade

Affected are Denon X4100, X5200 and X7200 as well as Marantz SR7009. AV7702 and AV8802

bargervais 09-12-2014 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westmd (Post 27348994)
As wished by many in the Atmos forum I want to open a new thread regarding Auro 3D home theater version. Here the link to the Auro-3D homepage.
I would like to discuss here Auro specific questions like speaker setup and - layout as well as updating each other on technical Auro news like announcements of new processors and receivers.
AFAIK there are only three companies with Auro products which are announced or on the market:

Datasat with their processors LS10 and RS20i which are both on the market

Trinnov Audio with the processor Altitude 32 announced

Stormaudio with the amlifier integrated Auriga and their announced processors SSP12 and SSP16

Hopefully new processors and receivers with more market friendly prices will be announced soon!

I am especially inviting the Datasat owners to join this thread as their are the only ones who already have Auro compability and their knowledge is very important for this thread.

Please feel free to post links to videos, documents or other postings on other threads to gradually collect knowledge on Auro and make it available for everyone!

What's the minimum cost for home. I've heard it's very pricey. Are these more for a home theater set up or is it practical for my living room.

westmd 09-12-2014 04:33 AM

19 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bargervais (Post 27349218)
What's the minimum cost for home. I've heard it's very pricey. Are these more for a home theater set up or is it practical for my living room.

From the point of speakers is not more costly then Atmos. You basically need as a minimum setup a 5.1 bed and above L, R, SL and SR one height speaker.
Problem is that the processors are still very expensive (starting from around $10k). Nevertheless I assume that within the next weeks / months more reasonably equipment will be available! I don't think that the codec can survive for long, if they won't have products on the mass market.

Wookii 09-12-2014 04:38 AM

It has been rumoured to be appearing on Denon and Marantz receivers in due course, and this had been mentioned by Auro last year. If that does happen then Auro will appear in more reasonably priced kit.

I have Auro in my Datasat RS20i already, but my room is still mid-refurb, so I'm not in a position to perform any testing at the minute in my own room. I have heard it several times in a dealer/friends room however, and the upmixer is nothing short of incredible.

bargervais 09-12-2014 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wookii (Post 27349370)
It has been rumoured to be appearing on Denon and Marantz receivers in due course, and this had been mentioned by Auro last year. If that does happen then Auro will appear in more reasonably priced kit.

I have Auro in my Datasat RS20i already, but my room is still mid-refurb, so I'm not in a position to perform any testing at the minute in my own room. I have heard it several times in a dealer/friends room however, and the upmixer is nothing short of incredible.

I was told that the hardware would have to be different and that a firmware update alone would not do it?

Wookii 09-12-2014 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bargervais (Post 27349794)
I was told that the hardware would have to be different and that a firmware update alone would not do it?

Interesting! By whom?

On the RS20i, as far as I am aware with my limited technical knowledge on these things, Auro runs on a standard Sharc DSP chip.

If you're correct then, it may be in next years AVR, if indeed it does appear.

bargervais 09-12-2014 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wookii (Post 27349866)
Interesting! By whom?

On the RS20i, as far as I am aware with my limited technical knowledge on these things, Auro runs on a standard Sharc DSP chip.

If you're correct then, it may be in next years AVR, if indeed it does appear.

I asked that question in the atmos thread and was told that an update to auro would not work on atmos receivers and was a little disappointed

Wookii 09-12-2014 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bargervais (Post 27349978)
I asked that question in the atmos thread and was told that an update to auro would not work on atmos receivers and was a little disappointed

Ah - an official trustworthy source then? ;) I think that can be taken with a pinch of salt then - until Denon, Marantz et al specially come out and formally state that, we won't actually know.

Wookii 09-12-2014 05:26 AM

Check out this press release from January:

http://www.auro-3d.com/press/2014/01...ile-platforms/

Quote:

Auro Technologies’ official partners have earned a widespread reputation for offering the highest quality sound reproduction available in home cinema, gaming, automotive and mobile platforms. Some of Auro Technologies’ official partners include: Audiokinetic, California Audio Technology (CAT), Continental, Datasat Digital Entertainment, Denon & Marantz, McIntosh Laboratory, Steinway Lyngdorf (SL Audio) and StormAudio.

sdurani 09-12-2014 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wookii (Post 27350146)
Ah - an official trustworthy source then?

You decide:
Quote:

Originally Posted by audioguy (Post 27341122)
Sort of off topic but: I am at CEDIA and saw 4 Atmos presentations and one Auro presentation. I was underwhelmed by every Atmos demo I heard regardless of the cost of the system. The JBL Synthesis system audio was over the top (with hardware costs at about $140,000 and 32 speakers). And while the audio was spectacular, the envelopment increase from switching to Atmos was nice but certainly not enough for me to have invested in it.

The Auro demo, on the other hand with about 15 less speakers (and probably $100,000 less in hardware) was soooooooo much better and enveloping and three dimensional. And we learned that Denon and Marantz will be making that available hopefully by year end. So you get Atmos, Auro and Audyssey X32 in one box. That will be my next purchase!!

But contrary to what some have suggested, the Atmos speaker configuration will be far less than optimal for Auros (that is according to what we were told by Auro and when they explained why the configure the speakers the way they do. So if you are looking for one best solution, choose carefully!!


bargervais 09-12-2014 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wookii (Post 27350146)
ah - an official trustworthy source then? ;) i think that can be taken with a pinch of salt then - until denon, marantz et al specially come out and formally state that, we won't actually know.

lol:)

westmd 09-12-2014 05:46 AM

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Auro themselve told me last Saturday on the IFA that there will be announcements soon on better priced equipment. He couldn't go more into detail but said to wait with the final purchase until these announcements were done.
With D&M I think the problem could be the amount of channels to have Auro and Atmos on board with the current (announced) Atmos models!

Glenn Baumann 09-12-2014 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdurani (Post 27350306)
You decide:


Sanjay,

A bit off topic, but are you considering going to a Auro-3D or Atmos setup yourself?

What type of setup are you running now? Processing, speakers, overall layout etc? :confused:

I have always wondered what type of setup you have... Enquiring minds would like to know! I have really enjoyed your insightful posts and advice over the years!

I myself am in the market for a new AVR. I was considering initially going with Atmos, and now with this talk of Auro-3D and possibly some other things looming on the horizon, I am now considering waiting out this next round of format introductions! I might just stay with the Denon 4520ci that is HEAVILY discounted right now until the dust has settled!


...Glenn :)

westmd 09-12-2014 05:52 AM

19 Attachment(s)
I think one of the biggest difference in the strategy of Dolby and Auro is, for Dolby is quantity that counts so the more units are labelled Dolby Atmos the better, even if they feature only two height channels which Dolby excplictly said won't bring a threedimensional sound field whilst for Auro is really quality so they make sure that units that have Auro on board will fulfill certain criteria.

That is why we most likely won't see any $499 receiver with Auro in the near future!

kbarnes701 09-12-2014 06:15 AM

Subscribed.

bargervais 09-12-2014 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westmd (Post 27350714)
I think one of the biggest difference in the strategy of Dolby and Auro is, for Dolby is quantity that counts so the more units are labelled Dolby Atmos the better, even if they feature only two height channels which Dolby excplictly said won't bring a threedimensional sound field whilst for Auro is really quality so they make sure that units that have Auro on board will fulfill certain criteria.

That is why we most likely won't see any $499 receiver with Auro in the near future!

are we talking about an Auro in the price range of $2,500 to $3,000 by maybe this time next year??? I'll be ready to upgrade my livingroom AVR by then if it's more then that count me out. Then I'll upgrade to Atmos 7.2.4 out in my Living room.

westmd 09-12-2014 07:13 AM

19 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bargervais (Post 27352306)
are we talking about an Auro in the price range of $2,500 to $3,000 by maybe this time next year??? I'll be ready to upgrade my livingroom AVR by then if it's more then that count me out. Then I'll upgrade to Atmos 7.2.4 out in my Living room.

I would assume we will find out more untill the end of this year. I don't really know prices, manufacturers, etc. I neither work for Auro nor do I get any money. I just liked the sound (as many others) and that is it.

dragonleepenn 09-12-2014 07:35 AM

"We need thebland " too chime in, hey Jeff where are you.
He just got the datastat processor and installed in his home theater of the month
right here on AVS.
Regarding Auro I'm in when they come out with a denon/marantz model that will do both formats. Guess I'll be transferring my brand new denon 5200 to the den,
have'nt even listened to a real Atmos yet on it.





PeterV

bargervais 09-12-2014 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westmd (Post 27352698)
I would assume we will find out more untill the end of this year. I don't really know prices, manufacturers, etc. I neither work for Auro nor do I get any money. I just liked the sound (as many others) and that is it.

this may be an odd question and i undertsand that we will know more by maybe the end od this year, but what makes their Auro gear now so expensive is the liscence or the hardware or both?

Frohlich 09-12-2014 08:07 AM

I wonder in a blended Auro/Atmos home theater if the following speaker configuration would work as a compromise in speaker location that would potentially work well with both formats:

1)start with a 5.1 or 7.1 system (I have 7.1)

2)add two in-ceiling speakers toward the front of the room to serve above the main front L/R existing speakers. These in ceiling speakers would act as both Atmos "front" ceiling speakers and Auro front L/R height channels

3)add three in-ceiling speakers roughly in line with the traditional L/R surround channels and of the three in ceiling speakers use the L/R ceiling speaker as both Atmos "middle" ceiling speakers and use the Center ceiling speaker only for Auro VOG (not turned on for Atmos)

With this configuration you have a 7.1.4 Atmos setup and 7.1.5 set-up for Auro (I think in Auro terminology this would just be 11.1)?

sdurani 09-12-2014 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann (Post 27350674)
A bit off topic, but are you considering going to a Auro-3D or Atmos setup yourself?

Waiting for a couple of features to show up in affordable products before jumping in.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann (Post 27350674)
What type of setup are you running now? Processing, speakers, overall layout etc?

Traditional 7.1 layout, with my old Lex processor driving Infinity bookshelf speakers.

asarose247 09-12-2014 08:52 AM

Subscribed, in deed . . .

westmd 09-12-2014 09:41 AM

19 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bargervais (Post 27353570)
this may be an odd question and i undertsand that we will know more by maybe the end od this year, but what makes their Auro gear now so expensive is the liscence or the hardware or both?

It's simple because they went with their first contracts with premium companies. The Atmos upgrade for Datasat will be most likely in the same region as Auro so around $3k whilst Onkyo sells a whole Atmos receiver for a sixth of that price!
I don't honestly know why they haven't got any contracts with other more consumer orientated brands. From the press release it stated that they wanted to work with D&M but I have no inside what happened but let's wait for upcoming announcements.

Roger Dressler 09-12-2014 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westmd (Post 27350714)
for Dolby is quantity that counts so the more units are labelled Dolby Atmos the better, even if they feature only two height channels which Dolby explicitly said won't bring a three dimensional sound field

Where did Dolby say that? Thanks in advance.

westmd 09-12-2014 10:20 AM

19 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frohlich (Post 27354298)
I wonder in a blended Auro/Atmos home theater if the following speaker configuration would work as a compromise in speaker location that would potentially work well with both formats:

1)start with a 5.1 or 7.1 system (I have 7.1)

2)add two in-ceiling speakers toward the front of the room to serve above the main front L/R existing speakers. These in ceiling speakers would act as both Atmos "front" ceiling speakers and Auro front L/R height channels

3)add three in-ceiling speakers roughly in line with the traditional L/R surround channels and of the three in ceiling speakers use the L/R ceiling speaker as both Atmos "middle" ceiling speakers and use the Center ceiling speaker only for Auro VOG (not turned on for Atmos)

With this configuration you have a 7.1.4 Atmos setup and 7.1.5 set-up for Auro (I think in Auro terminology this would just be 11.1)?

I do think the general idea is quite good but you should think of sone aspects.

1) Fine
2) without knowing your room dimensions and distance between screen and MLP this is hard to answer, but within my setup if complying to the Dolby angles my front top would be in the middle between MLP and screen. If you calculated the angle between top front and MLP and you are within the 30deg range this sounds fibe to me, but if not the speakers could be a little bit too far away for Atmos
3) Again this sounds good for Auro, but AFAIK Atmos does not support top middle and top front, but onky top rear and top front. So it might be that the speakers are a little bit too close to you. I think for Atmos sound you could face the problem that tge speakers above you are too dominant and the three dimensioal sound above your head wouldn't unfold

Anyway I do think that this setup esoecially for Auro is only possible if you are able to aim the speaker. I explicitly asked Auro for the use of the Jamo IC608 LCR and they replied that this would be accetable. Tge 608LCR is a three way speaker of which middle and height speaker can be aimed. I would try a similar design. (Except for VOG).

As I mentioned before is a similar design but I want to install one pair in the back fulfilling top rear for Atmos and rear height for Auro, one speaker pair in the middle between screen and MLP being top front for Atmos and maybe VOG for Auro and three speakers in the front. L and R being front height for Auro and maybe front height for Atmos if it works. Last one will be the center height for Auro onnly. All seven speakers will be LCRs from Jamo.

thebland 09-12-2014 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonleepenn (Post 27353282)
"We need thebland " too chime in, hey Jeff where are you.
He just got the datastat processor and installed in his home theater of the month
right here on AVS.
Regarding Auro I'm in when they come out with a denon/marantz model that will do both formats. Guess I'll be transferring my brand new denon 5200 to the den,
have'nt even listened to a real Atmos yet on it.





PeterV

Auro upmixing is a major improvement over 7.1, PL IIz, Neo X upmixing. As I scroll through modes, the Auro is far superior. If ATMOS upmixing is as good, you'll be very happy. All else seems flat comparatively.

The Datasat gives a scale range of 1-15 for amount of aggressiveness or envelopment plus you can input the room 'size' for even more (or less) effect (Small, Medium, Large, Voice). I chose 'medium' and 6/15 on Auro envelopment.

dragonleepenn 09-12-2014 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebland (Post 27358330)
Auro upmixing is a major improvement over 7.1, PL IIz, Neo X upmixing. As I scroll through modes, the Auro is far superior. If ATMOS upmixing is as good, you'll be very happy. All else seems flat comparatively.

The Datasat gives a scale range of 1-15 for amount of aggressiveness or envelopment plus you can input the room 'size' for even more (or less) effect (Small, Medium, Large, Voice). I chose 'medium' and 6/15 on Auro envelopment.

That's interesting Jeff, so you are able to dial in the amount of mix within the size of each . How do you think the speaker layout of
Auro and atmos can be utilized or can they. Some debate around here about both formats working together. When will you have software and will it be on blu-ray? Someone said that later this year/or early next Denon & Marantz will have a avr that will have both formats like the datasat. I just got the denon 5200 and love the upmixer. I only use the avr as a processor I have all seperate crown and lexicon power amps for a total of 7-8-4 layout, like you I have a pair extra for a total of six ceiling speakers for future upgrades. So really 7-8-6. :D




PeterV

thebland 09-12-2014 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonleepenn (Post 27366330)
That's interesting Jeff, so you are able to dial in the amount of mix within the size of each . How do you think the speaker layout of
Auro and atmos can be utilized or can they. Some debate around here about both formats working together. When will you have software and will it be on blu-ray? Someone said that later this year/or early next Denon & Marantz will have a avr that will have both formats like the datasat. I just got the denon 5200 and love the upmixer. I only use the avr as a processor I have all seperate crown and lexicon power amps for a total of 7-8-4 layout, like you I have a pair extra for a total of six ceiling speakers for future upgrades. So really 7-8-6. :D




PeterV

Now that's a nice set up. Congrats!

According to the Dolby specs just released, my Auro speaker config (no center height) ALSO meets the Atmos spec. I'm expecting an AURO native demo Blu Ray disc any day. But there's very little content. The upmixer is really the big thing.

They can certainly co-exist (and will).

SoundChex 09-13-2014 04:43 PM

1 Attachment(s)
One major problem I see with "wide acceptance" of Auro-3D is that the minimum Auro-3D speaker configuration today is 9.1 (5.1.4 in Dolby parlance) which provides 'full channel-to-speaker mapping' for 8.0|9.1 Auro-3D source material. What would appear to be missing is an "Auro-3D 5.1.2" playback speaker configuration which would allow use of 7.1 AVRs...?!

Absent such an adaptation, we are still left with the issue of establishing a dual-use speaker configuration for future Atmos+Auro-3D AVRs. The classical 9.1 Auro-3D speaker configuration is:


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1410650634 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1410298792


In the second Auro Technologies graphic, the "invisible" Height Center speaker (midway between the Height Left and Height Right speakers shown) would seem to be definitively placed at a +30° elevation. I'm under the impression that this setup is consistent with an Atmos 5.1.4 configuration using Front Height and Rear Height on-wall speaker pairs.


_

Skylinestar 09-13-2014 07:45 PM

Auro 13.1 for those who wanna upgrade from their existing 7.1 setup:

http://www.auro-3d.com/wp-content/th...ayers_13_1.jpg


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