The **OFFICIAL** Marantz AV7702 Pre/Pro - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 6608 Old 10-12-2014, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Some people want it now, irregardless; others can afford to wait, for the better goodies.

Pick your camp, and be happy.
Oh I certainly want it now. It's just that my bank account is currently saying no.
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post #242 of 6608 Old 10-12-2014, 01:41 AM
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post
... no one knows if BR4K is going to go with HDCP 2.2 for sure yet and even if they do customers can still split video to the 4K monitor/projector and audio to the pre/AVR for units without it.
With the provision that it hasn't been proved that as the 4K image needs a full HDCP 2.2 compatible chain to be played in 4K, the sound won't be submitted to the same constraint.

Meaning that if you connect a HDCP 2.2 4K BRD player to a HDCP 2.0 receiver, an Atmos/Auro 3D or future DTS/MDA track could only be played in its native Dolby/DTS 5.1/7.1 mode instead of the full Atmos/Auro 3D or whatever format, as in this case the HDCP 2.0 receiver could be judged as "insufficiently" compatible by the HDCP 2.2 BRD player...

This is a possibility that has better to be kept in mind in this HDCP 2.2 compatibility context...

Hugo
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post #243 of 6608 Old 10-12-2014, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by acmcool View Post
Just came back from demo...oh boy I was blown away by atmos and 7702...I will never play movies without native atmos or Dolby surround upmixer for 5.1/7.1 videos..
Agreed. People can easily hear the comparison by holding the green or red remote button down called "movie" or "stereo". This momentarily brings up the OSD where the option to change the upmixer is located. NeoX didn't hold a candle to the new Dolby's version. I have a collection of 700 concert disks. In the demo that Mark put on, it was more immerse. But one the 5.1 and 7.1 movies that Mark played for us, it really added value.

As you say, I too will never play movies without native Atmos or Dolby surround upmixer for 5.1/7.1 videos. It's the real deal.
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post #244 of 6608 Old 10-12-2014, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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So this thread done?


No more pictures needed?

No more questions while I have it in the house running?


Time to box it up and send it back?


Not a chance that's happening! Don't tell Steve... but I probably got an hour or 2 sleep, while running concerts and movies through it. Anyone else in Minneapolis interested in seeing or hearing it? Also it was nice to meet those who have come over.

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post #245 of 6608 Old 10-12-2014, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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A few more pictures of the room and what I am using for rear ATMOS. The Dali Ikon on-walls are being used to bounce the sound. We had them to close to the rear of the seats and had to back them up a few feet.
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post #246 of 6608 Old 10-12-2014, 11:04 AM
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With a couple of borrowed items, we put together a 7.1.4 system without a lot of tweaking. It would have been better to use in-ceiling speakers for the rears versus onwall speakers angled to reflect the ceiling on stands. Having all matched speaker series would have also helped. Pro Audyssey calibration would take it to the next level too. But the end result was a VERY impressive Atmos demo.

I realize his $6000 DALI Epicon center channel plus the matching Epicon 6's for $14,000 a pair helped make an impressive demo. Never mind he has a stack of $12,600 retail Halo amplifiers didn't hurt either. But I never felt that this $2K retail AV7702 was holding back his system. The AV7005 would not be in the same league as compared to the AV7702, it would be like adding multiple sets of grill cloths. Marantz successfully removed 3 sets of sonic veils with this AV7702. Simply put, the AV7702 is an overachiever.

AVS members are rather focused on a feature or two they wished it had and I understand why. But this is a $2K retail prepro. Brands that charge 4-7 times more don't have a fraction of the features including HDCP 2.0. The honest question to ask is will a $9495 Anthem D2v3D sound as good as the AV7702? In my mind, this is a real comparison and I am not going to assume the Anthem is going to win. IMHO, the 8801 wins over the flagship Anthem and several other rather expensive brands. To finish the comparison, if you add up all the internal parts of a AV7702 and the Anthem D2v3d, don't assume the Anthem spent more on the bill of material. It could be the other way around. Economy of scale of shared platforms is the only reason why this product is even possible.

What matters most to sound quality is who the artist is. In this case, the artist is the engineer. So the question to ask is who has the better engineers that know how to make something sound better. IMHO to date, I am not impressed with Onkyo engineers because I don't think they are not great "artists". I sell their product too so I will leave it at that. No offense to Marantz 1998 engineers but they learned a lot from the 1998 days of the AV550. Their new series took off their gloves. In 2014 and beyond, I really would not want to be Marant'z competition. Prove it to yourself before you automatically assume. The other players better up their game.

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post #247 of 6608 Old 10-12-2014, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
With a couple of borrowed items, we put together a 7.1.4 system without a lot of tweaking. It would have been better to use in-ceiling speakers for the rears versus onwall speakers angled to reflect the ceiling on stands. Having all matched speaker series would have also helped. Pro Audyssey calibration would take it to the next level too. But the end result was a VERY impressive Atmos demo.

I realize his $6000 DALI Epicon center channel plus the matching Epicon 6's for $14,000 a pair helped make an impressive demo. Never mind he has a stack of $12,600 retail Halo amplifiers didn't hurt either. But I never felt that this $2K retail AV7702 was holding back his system. The AV7005 would not be in the same league as compared to the AV7702, it would be like adding multiple sets of grill cloths. Marantz successfully removed 3 sets of sonic veils with this AV7702. Simply put, the AV7702 is an overachiever.

AVS members are rather focused on a feature or two they wished it had and I understand why. But this is a $2K retail prepro. Brands that charge 4-7 times more don't have a fraction of the features including HDCP 2.0. The honest question to ask is will a $9495 Anthem D2v3D sound as good as the AV7702? In my mind, this is a real comparison and I am not going to assume the Anthem is going to win. IMHO, the 8801 wins over the flagship Anthem and several other rather expensive brands. To finish the comparison, if you add up all the internal parts of a AV7702 and the Anthem D2v3d, don't assume the Anthem spent more on the bill of material. It could be the other way around. Economy of scale of shared platforms is the only reason why this product is even possible.

What matters most to sound quality is who the artist is. In this case, the artist is the engineer. So the question to ask is who has the better engineers that know how to make something sound better. IMHO to date, I am not impressed with Onkyo engineers because I don't think they are not great "artists". I sell their product too so I will leave it at that. No offense to Marantz 1998 engineers but they learned a lot from the 1998 days of the AV550. Their new series took off their gloves. In 2014 and beyond, I really would not want to be Marant'z competition. Prove it to yourself before you automatically assume. The other players better up their game.
This is why I'm getting the 7702 to replace my Anthem AVM 2 that recently died. With it's demise, it was time to get HDMI lossless audio and room correction. When I went looking at options, I knew the AVM 50...... the x generations later successor to my AVM 2, was more money than I would like to spend at this time. The improved HDAMs and inclusion of XT32 in the 7702 got me excited. The initial results on the 7702 SQ confirmed that this was the solution for me. I prefer to run my video straight to the ZT60 from my OPPO and Sat receiver, so 2.0 versus 2.2 doesn't bother me. I'll run a second HDMI for audio and be happy as a clam The wait is killing me
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post #248 of 6608 Old 10-12-2014, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post
With the provision that it hasn't been proved that as the 4K image needs a full HDCP 2.2 compatible chain to be played in 4K, the sound won't be submitted to the same constraint.

Meaning that if you connect a HDCP 2.2 4K BRD player to a HDCP 2.0 receiver, an Atmos/Auro 3D or future DTS/MDA track could only be played in its native Dolby/DTS 5.1/7.1 mode instead of the full Atmos/Auro 3D or whatever format, as in this case the HDCP 2.0 receiver could be judged as "insufficiently" compatible by the HDCP 2.2 BRD player...

This is a possibility that has better to be kept in mind in this HDCP 2.2 compatibility context...
There is no possibility that HDCP will impact passing of Atmos bitstreams.
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post #249 of 6608 Old 10-12-2014, 12:40 PM
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post
Hi,

With the provision that it hasn't been proved that as the 4K image needs a full HDCP 2.2 compatible chain to be played in 4K, the sound won't be submitted to the same constraint.

Meaning that if you connect a HDCP 2.2 4K BRD player to a HDCP 2.0 receiver, an Atmos/Auro 3D or future DTS/MDA track could only be played in its native Dolby/DTS 5.1/7.1 mode instead of the full Atmos/Auro 3D or whatever format, as in this case the HDCP 2.0 receiver could be judged as "insufficiently" compatible by the HDCP 2.2 BRD player...

This is a possibility that has better to be kept in mind in this HDCP 2.2 compatibility context...

Hugo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
There is no possibility that HDCP will impact passing of Atmos bitstreams.
Well that's a great confirmation, thanks Roger, as usual shall I add.

Hugo
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post #250 of 6608 Old 10-12-2014, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
There is no possibility that HDCP will impact passing of Atmos bitstreams.
Are you just talking about firmware version numbers? Because if there is some HDCP handshake issue like we've seen so often it will certainly impact audio.
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post #251 of 6608 Old 10-12-2014, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiky View Post
Are you just talking about firmware version numbers? Because if there is some HDCP handshake issue like we've seen so often it will certainly impact audio.
What is an HDCP handshake issue? I have only heard of HDMI handshake issues.

If a source tries to provide 4k video with HDCP 2.2 into an Atmos AVR with only 1080P HDMI support, the video will be 1080P and the full Atmos audio will be forwarded. There is no mechanism in HDMI to split a bitstream apart, and only deliver the core and exclude the extension. Even a non-Atmos AVR will be handed the entire Atmos bitstream. It will only decode the TrueHD 7.1 core, and ignore the rest.

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post #252 of 6608 Old 10-12-2014, 06:03 PM
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Living in Minnesota and being a current AV8801 owner my partner and I were fortunate to be able to take advantage of Dr_Mark's generous offer of a listening session yesterday which based on schedule considerations was limited to about 90 minutes. We were interested in both hearing Dolby Atmos and a comparison of the 8801 and the 7702. The following is a brief summary of our thoughts.

The comparison of the 8801 and the 7702 was stereo which minimized the amount of cable changes. There were differences between the two units, but to reach any definite conclusions would have taken more evaluation time and would also have needed to include multi-channel.

We were impressed by the Dolby Atmos demo material to the extent that I will be starting to think about how to solve the logistical problems of ceiling speakers. The Dolby Atmos demo was even more impressive considering that Mark and Steve only had a few hours late Friday to put everything together, and I believe it was the first time for both of them setting up Dolby Atmos. In some AVS threads there has been a lot of discussion about speaker considerations, mounting angles, ceiling height and ceiling angles which had led me to think that an Atmos system in my room with a vaulted and beamed ceiling was going to be a major design challenge in addition to the logistics challenge of cabling etc. Having heard Atmos based on what Mark and Steve accomplished in their setup, I take what I heard as a very positive indication that getting a good to great sounding Atmos system is much more likely than what I had thought previously based on what I had been reading.


My thanks to Mark, Steve, and Marantz for this opportunity to get an initial exposure to Atmos.
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post #253 of 6608 Old 10-12-2014, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiky View Post
Are you just talking about firmware version numbers? Because if there is some HDCP handshake issue like we've seen so often it will certainly impact audio.
I agree with Roger here. The video passthrough aspect of HDCP is where the real issue exists and will continue to exist. The Sony FMP-X1 and X10 media players are a perfect example of this. Both have no issue with passing HDMI audio separately to a receiver or processor unaffected as HDCP is there to secure the HDMI video signal path to the display, not the audio path. In any situation where you are going to want to bypass an AVR or AVP due to HDCP you are going to need 2 outputs on the source anyway otherwise its a moot point.
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post #254 of 6608 Old 10-12-2014, 06:47 PM
 
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Exactly, I prefer to wait and see where it's all going. Don't get me wrong it's exciting but I've learnt to be patient now.
Frank, meanwhile we are are slowly building our platform of confidence, by reading DSU effects from Keith's posts.
And by the time we're ready to jump in, we might have five or six flicks that we like, with a Dolby Atmos audio soundtrack. ...So far, zero for me; the one here and the three comin' up are simply not my bag of a good time @ the movies. Our mileage might vary more or less, it depends.
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post #255 of 6608 Old 10-12-2014, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Frank, meanwhile we are are slowly building our platform of confidence, by reading DSU effects from Keith's posts.
And by the time we're ready to jump in, we might have five or six flicks that we like, with a Dolby Atmos audio soundtrack. ...So far, zero for me; the one here and the three comin' up are simply not my bag of a good time @ the movies. Our mileage might vary more or less, it depends.

I don't mind TF4 and yet to see TMNT. But as I stated before on another thread ( I think!! who can keep up ) every new Blu Ray release should have Atmos or Auro3D/Dts UHD.

God Bless!
A good way to test your Iris on your projector is on the Spears and Munsil disc. Go to Video processing then select Luminance Loading. Don't stare directly at the lens but on an angle and you can actually see the Iris at work.
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post #256 of 6608 Old 10-12-2014, 10:47 PM
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In regards to content for Atmos besides movies I am interested in music content. 2L (www.2l.no) is releasing a Blu-Ray recording of classical music this month with 9.1 Auro-3D and Atmos encoding. Amazon is listing a release date of November 18, 2014 (Catalogue # 2L-106-SABD). For those who are not familiar with the 2L label they have released quite a few SACD and Blu-Ray classical music discs with a strong emphasis on quality audio and talented performers.


There is a youtube excerpt from the recording (link below) which somewhat shows a very interesting microphone array. The following is from the trailer information for the video.
9.1 Auro-3D and Dolby Atmos + 5.1 surround + stereo
produced in DXD (Digital eXtreme Definition 352.8kHz/24bit)



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post #257 of 6608 Old 10-13-2014, 04:48 AM
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The Atmos content has been cancelled due to technical problems.

See https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post27970810

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post #258 of 6608 Old 10-13-2014, 05:10 AM
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The Atmos content has been cancelled due to technical problems.

See https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post27970810

That's no good.

God Bless!
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post #259 of 6608 Old 10-13-2014, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
What is an HDCP handshake issue? I have only heard of HDMI handshake issues.

If a source tries to provide 4k video with HDCP 2.2 into an Atmos AVR with only 1080P HDMI support, the video will be 1080P and the full Atmos audio will be forwarded. There is no mechanism in HDMI to split a bitstream apart, and only deliver the core and exclude the extension. Even a non-Atmos AVR will be handed the entire Atmos bitstream. It will only decode the TrueHD 7.1 core, and ignore the rest.
Well, HDMI problems are all caused by the copy protection. It isn't the copper that causes it! Thanks for the clarification. And to OzHDHT.

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post #260 of 6608 Old 10-13-2014, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post

No more questions while I have it in the ..
Yes, is your room acoustical threated ?
If that is done, i could not see it on your photo's.

If not, than audyssey has much more work to do, does that work out ok ?
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post #261 of 6608 Old 10-13-2014, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, is your room acoustical threated ?
If that is done, i could not see it on your photo's.

If not, than audyssey has much more work to do, does that work out ok ?
I don't have any treating in the room. I have found that even without that it still sounds good. When I run the Audyssey and Audyssey Pro calibrations it shows my Epicons are fairly flat down to around 80 and wants to adjust the freq from 80 down to -15-20. The room loses all bottom end.

So I have been running it with no EQ on the front left/right and it does sound better. As I am told by everyone, the room sucks, looks horrible, then when they hear it, ok, what did you do to make it sound good? Answer; got lucky.

One point of note, I don't own a pro kit but was fortunate to find someone with a kit that was comfortable with using it. With my Epicons they were flat. Now I used Helicon speakers prior to these and without the Audyssey correction the speakers were horrible. Audyssey brought the sound out and really made them perform and acceptable.

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post #262 of 6608 Old 10-13-2014, 03:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post
I don't have any treating in the room. I have found that even without that it still sounds good. When I run the Audyssey and Audyssey Pro calibrations it shows my Epicons are fairly flat down to around 80 and wants to adjust the freq from 80 down to -15-20. The room loses all bottom end.

So I have been running it with no EQ on the front left/right and it does sound better. As I am told by everyone, the room sucks, looks horrible, then when they hear it, ok, what did you do to make it sound good? Answer; got lucky.

One point of note, I don't own a pro kit but was fortunate to find someone with a kit that was comfortable with using it. With my Epicons they were flat. Now I used Helicon speakers prior to these and without the Audyssey correction the speakers were horrible. Audyssey brought the sound out and really made them perform and acceptable.
This is a very interesting reply Doc.
Perhaps Onkyo/Integra is into something good here with AccuEQ, as this REQ system does not EQ the two front main screen's flankers.

* Audyssey XT32 in the 7702; it has the Front Audyssey EQ mode? ...The one that leaves your two front mains unEQued and tried to match (EQ) all the others with them?
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post #263 of 6608 Old 10-13-2014, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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This is a very interesting reply Doc.
Perhaps Onkyo/Integra is into something good here with AccuEQ, as this REQ system does not EQ the two front main screen's flankers.

* Audyssey XT32 in the 7702; it has the Front Audyssey EQ mode? ...The one that leaves your two front mains unEQued and tried to match (EQ) all the others with them?

That's correct, front 2 off.

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post #264 of 6608 Old 10-13-2014, 04:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post
That's correct, front 2 off.
Wow, just wow! ...Your Dali Epicon 6 speakers, two front main ones.
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post #265 of 6608 Old 10-13-2014, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Correct, the 6's have Audyssey off at all times. Sounds better.


You in Minneapolis stop by!

Life is enjoyable with good quality
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post #266 of 6608 Old 10-14-2014, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
This is a very interesting reply Doc.
Perhaps Onkyo/Integra is into something good here with AccuEQ, as this REQ system does not EQ the two front main screen's flankers.

* Audyssey XT32 in the 7702; it has the Front Audyssey EQ mode? ...The one that leaves your two front mains unEQued and tried to match (EQ) all the others with them?

For me at least, I'm going to pick this guy at the helm of a world class room correction algorithm
Tomlinson Holman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
versus a start-up internal team of software guys. When I asked the person at the Onkyo/Integra booth at CEDIA why Audyssey was dropped, there were a lot of words but I summarized it for cost reasons. I asked if they were happy with Audyssey and they said yes. Reading between the lines they needed more DSP's and they have to pay a royalty with Audyssey. Onkyo isn't dumb so I don't think they are going to botch their version. But I am anxious to see what you get when you have a fraction of the DSP horsepower. Audyssey owners have long since learned that XT-32 is a BIG step up from your lower caliber XT. So it seems more data points do matter yet Onkyo is using far less DSP horsepower. You be the judge.


Back to the L&R bypass. D&M were the only folks smart enough to add an option to bypass left and right for the room correction. Hence, I use that option and compare in every single room I tune. What I simply do is put on a stereo track and go back and forth with room correction on and off. The correct position is subjective. I can tell you which has a flatter FR; Audyssey. But if the customer prefers room correction OFF on L&R, he is right because it's his checkbook.


I look at it this way, when you go though millions of miles of DSP's there has to be a small penalty even though there are advantages to Audyssey. All we care about is the net-net differences. So if you go forward 5 steps and backwards 1/2 a step, I'll take those gains. Audyssey therefore will take you a 1/2 of step backwords if you have a "perfect" room because you violate KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). My ear hears a touch less "air" on the top end. I can live with less "air" on a tire scratching scene (in fact I won't hear it very easily) but in stereo, it is more obvious. Hence, D&M offered the L&R bypass. Smart.


With XT-32, I'm guessing 90% of my customer rooms sound better with Audyssey. If they sound better with XT-32 and the free microphone, then another level of improvement WILL be had by using the incredible software calibrated microphone. If you are focused on two channel as Mark does, you are going to go though contortions to find the best stereo sound and wrap the remaining speakers in that brand to immerse your theater. Meaning you will be adjusting your speaker placement, etc to get the best sound. How many people do that for their sides and rears? You put those speakers where you think they are best and you run Audyssey. So with my customer base, L&R bypass often (50%?) proves to sound better without Audyssey. In Mark's case, he has no option but to corner load. So with some driver configurations and placements, Audyssey was mandated. But luck was in his favor with the Epicon 6's. His corner loading adds a little "oomph" to the bottom end and the top end is as pure as can be. In his room and on paper, it should not sound so good. But your jaw will drop. His speakers would of course sound better without his current layout.
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post #267 of 6608 Old 10-14-2014, 10:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post
Correct, the 6's have Audyssey off at all times. Sounds better.

You in Minneapolis stop by!
Would luv too; I'm in Canada (North of you), on Vancouver Island (West coast), by Victoria*, East of it.
...Just few miles.

* Victoria is the extreme South point of Vancouver Island.
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post #268 of 6608 Old 10-14-2014, 10:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
For me at least, I'm going to pick this guy at the helm of a world class room correction algorithm
Tomlinson Holman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
versus a start-up internal team of software guys. When I asked the person at the Onkyo/Integra booth at CEDIA why Audyssey was dropped, there were a lot of words but I summarized it for cost reasons. I asked if they were happy with Audyssey and they said yes. Reading between the lines they needed more DSP's and they have to pay a royalty with Audyssey. Onkyo isn't dumb so I don't think they are going to botch their version. But I am anxious to see what you get when you have a fraction of the DSP horsepower. Audyssey owners have long since learned that XT-32 is a BIG step up from your lower caliber XT. So it seems more data points do matter yet Onkyo is using far less DSP horsepower. You be the judge.


Back to the L&R bypass. D&M were the only folks smart enough to add an option to bypass left and right for the room correction. Hence, I use that option and compare in every single room I tune. What I simply do is put on a stereo track and go back and forth with room correction on and off. The correct position is subjective. I can tell you which has a flatter FR; Audyssey. But if the customer prefers room correction OFF on L&R, he is right because it's his checkbook.


I look at it this way, when you go though millions of miles of DSP's there has to be a small penalty even though there are advantages to Audyssey. All we care about is the net-net differences. So if you go forward 5 steps and backwards 1/2 a step, I'll take those gains. Audyssey therefore will take you a 1/2 of step backwords if you have a "perfect" room because you violate KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). My ear hears a touch less "air" on the top end. I can live with less "air" on a tire scratching scene (in fact I won't hear it very easily) but in stereo, it is more obvious. Hence, D&M offered the L&R bypass. Smart.


With XT-32, I'm guessing 90% of my customer rooms sound better with Audyssey. If they sound better with XT-32 and the free microphone, then another level of improvement WILL be had by using the incredible software calibrated microphone. If you are focused on two channel as Mark does, you are going to go though contortions to find the best stereo sound and wrap the remaining speakers in that brand to immerse your theater. Meaning you will be adjusting your speaker placement, etc to get the best sound. How many people do that for their sides and rears? You put those speakers where you think they are best and you run Audyssey. So with my customer base, L&R bypass often (50%?) proves to sound better without Audyssey. In Mark's case, he has no option but to corner load. So with some driver configurations and placements, Audyssey was mandated. But luck was in his favor with the Epicon 6's. His corner loading adds a little "oomph" to the bottom end and the top end is as pure as can be. In his room and on paper, it should not sound so good. But your jaw will drop. His speakers would of course sound better without his current layout.
Steve, that's a great post, and you have valid points. We could easily write a book about this subject, but for reason of space we won't.

1. Onkyo has to save money also to fix all their defective products of the last six-seven years.
{AV receivers (+HTIB) and SSPs, and from Integra also.}

2. Audyssey's main chief (Chris) has always been against Audyssey "Front" curve.
And that's why Onkyo/Integra did not include it in their products (from 2007 through 2013).

3. Bryston (Canada) is against REQ all together (in their SSPs); keep it pure and simple (quality sound inside a quality room - acoustically treated with hi-end audiophile loudspeakers).

4. Anthem (Canada) has also a great REQ system with ARC, along with Audyssey XT32.

____________

♦ Every room, every system, every speaker, every surround sound processor with or without their own REQ system or from other parties, every piece of electronics, is different.
And every set of ears too.

There is no abso!lute in this hobby/passion/business of ours; only what sounds best to our own set of ears @ home.

For me, personally, the Marantz AV7702 pre/pro is my first choice, in the year 2014.
For the quality, the improvement, the features, the build, the value, and the glory.
Everything else right now, below and above, aren't as strong on my radar. ...That's me own r.a.d.a.r.
And the fact that Mr. Doctor Mark, and other wise members too, has it in his own rig (others soon), is simply a confirmation of my own personal choice as well.
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Last edited by NorthSky; 10-14-2014 at 10:47 AM. Reason: Typo(s)
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post #269 of 6608 Old 10-14-2014, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Steve, that's a great post, and you have valid points. We could easily write a book about this subject, but for reason of space we won't.

1. Onkyo has to save money also to fix all their defective products of the last six-seven years.
{AV receivers (+HTIB) and SSPs, and from Integra also.}

2. Audyssey's main chief (Chris) has always been against Audyssey "Front" curve.
And that's why Onkyo/Integra did not include it in their products (from 2007 through 2013).

3. Bryston (Canada) is against REQ all together (in their SSPs); keep it pure and simple (quality sound inside a quality room - acoustically treated with hi-end audiophile loudspeakers).

4. Anthem (Canada) has also a great REQ system with ARC, along with Audyssey XT32.

____________

♦ Every room, every system, every speaker, every surround sound processor with or without their own REQ system or from other parties, every piece of electronics, is different.
And every set of ears too.

There is no abso!lute in this hobby/passion/business of ours; only what sounds best to our own set of ears @ home.

For me, personally, the Marantz AV7702 pre/pro is my first choice, in the year 2014.
For the quality, the improvement, the features, the build, the value, and the glory.
Everything else right now, below and above, aren't as strong on my radar. ...That's me own r.a.d.a.r.
And the fact that Mr. Doctor Mark, and other wise members too, has it in his own rig (others soon), is simply a confirmation of my own personal choice as well.
Great points. I am a Bryston dealer too. James has some valid points as to why not to use room correction. As a side note, he makes one heck of a prepro AND he is a great guy! I don't know if there is a better sounding prepro in the world. But the Bryston is a different animal. I diverge...


I personally love the flexibility of having room correction. Nothing stops a person from disengaging it.


While there are topics that are subjective, others are not. Removing veils from the analog chain is never subjective. This was an engineering art form normally reserved for the boutique brands. Even in 2014, a couple of the Japanese prepro vendors didn't execute as well as I liked and I am not talking about Marantz. So if I sound like a Marantz bigot, I'm only talking about what my ears hear in comparison. Those other brands were more or less receivers with their amplifiers removed. That has always been their perception. But Marantz did things differently. They added several higher grade components in the analog chain like better caps, resistors, HDAM's (op amps etc), shielding, bigger power supply, etc. This last round of analog design tweaks took Marantz to a different level even excluding Atmos. While there has been some debate in the past that a Marantz was basically a Denon, this new version makes it obvious to my ears that there is a distinctive sonic difference. So the gap has widened between the exceptional Denon models and the Marantz products. More specifically to the 7702. This $2K prepro is stepping on and digging into the sonic toes of boutique brands that simply don't have the engineering horsepower and expertise that D&M possesses. Shy of three or so brands, I don't care how much you spend. This 7702 is going to win or at least get close even when opinions are subjective.


The management at D&M has good ears and whoever they are hiring knows how to design for sound quality. So I feel comfortable setting this 7702 next to just about any specialty audio preamp processor brew and it's going to compete. Those who are in a paradigm and assume it has to cost more to get a highend prepro are factually wrong. Yes, I have been told and fully predict the 8802 to have another veil removed.


Two weeks ago I was very happy with what the 7701 could do. Just not delighted. I sold 20:1 more 8801's to 7701's. But hey, it was $1800; what should I expect so I put it in perspective. I wanted to hear the 7702 for the Atmos so I arranged an advanced listen. To my surprise, it leaped ahead of the 7701 because it has a lot less veils. Disclaimer: I'm passionate on the topic. My next door neighbor is going to say he hears it but a lot less giddy.


But of course, everyone needs to judge for themselves. If someone listens to the 7702 and is not impressed, I'm going to mark them down as sonically challenged.


I'm going to have the prepro for a little bit longer. If there is anybody reading this thread that wants to drag whatever prepro over to Mark's, I'd be happy to attend. Report back what you think. At the same token, if someone in MN wants to get an early listen this weekend and compare it against their skies the limit priced prepro, again come grab it and hear it for yourself. These are a lot of words to motivate people to don't judge this product on it's price. In my humble opinion, Marantz left money on the table. It sounds OUTSTANDING. I've heard many A-B-C-D-E-F side by side comparisons over the years. As loudly as I can shout, this one is the real deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
We could easily write a book about this subject, but for reason of space we won't.


Chapter 1 ^^^ is complete.

Steve (Owner) Sound Video

Last edited by SteveH; 10-14-2014 at 01:35 PM.
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post #270 of 6608 Old 10-14-2014, 01:31 PM
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I don't know how they do it.But I have been on marantz train for a while.I have owned Av7005,AV8801 and now have AV7702 on order.I came from Rotel,Integra processors and never looked back.The performance has been simply outstanding.
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