The Official Dolby Surround Upmixing Thread - Page 29 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #841 of 1029 Old 10-04-2018, 01:38 PM
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DSU is evolution from ProLogic, ProLogic2, and 2x and 2z. Dolby Surround (aka Dolby Atmos Upmix) is an impressive upmixer. it will take a 2ch, 5ch or 7ch sound source; up mix to 5 or 7 ch levels; then upmix from that to Dolby Atmos. pretty cool


The Dolby Surround upmixer is based on phase and gain relationships of elements in the signal, but importantly employs wideband functionality that analyzes and processes multiple perceptually spaced frequency bands in the signal. The benefit is a finer-grained analysis of the source content prior to steering. The result, we believe, is a more accurate soundstage.
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post #842 of 1029 Old 10-05-2018, 10:46 AM
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Yeah Dolby picking DSU Dolby Surround as the new name for their upmixer wasn't the greatest move. Something like "Atmos Upmix" or "DolbyAtmosMagic" or "AtmosEnhanced" or "AtmosProLogic3"
Everytime i see it lit up on my receiver, i usually say to myself, "dolby atmos upmixed" I ignore the DolbySurround . haha.
Dolby didn't want to put Atmos in the name because the upmixing is not true object-based sound. They also couldn't call it ProLogic III because DSU is a totally new algorithm, not an enhancement to PLII.


I agree that recycling the name Dolby Surround is needlessly confusing. I sort-of get why they did it, because it strengthens the name Dolby in the branding, but a lot of people will still remember that as the name of their original 2-channel matrixed surround format. I think I would have gone with something like "Dolby Upmix," personally.
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post #843 of 1029 Old 10-05-2018, 07:28 PM
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They also couldn't call it ProLogic III because DSU is a totally new algorithm, not an enhancement to PLII.
Maybe, but DSU works similar in method or at least principle to PL2. They're both multiband. And:

PL2:
  • Front: in phase content
  • Back: out of phase content


DSU:
  • Front: in phase content
  • Back: out of phase content
  • Top: mid phase content
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post #844 of 1029 Old 10-05-2018, 09:24 PM
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DSU works similar in method or at least principle to PL2.
ALL matrix surround processing works similarly: direct sounds up front, diffuse sounds around you. Doesn't mean DSU is related in any way to PLII.

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post #845 of 1029 Old 10-06-2018, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by junh1024 View Post
Maybe, but DSU works similar in method or at least principle to PL2. They're both multiband. And:

PL2:
  • Front: in phase content
  • Back: out of phase content


DSU:
  • Front: in phase content
  • Back: out of phase content
  • Top: mid phase content
My understanding is that the new Dolby Surround upmixer also uses frequency and amplitude cues to decide which sounds get sent where. It isn't based simply on phase information. Even PrologicII wasn't.

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post #846 of 1029 Old 10-06-2018, 12:45 PM
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I think I would have gone with something like "Dolby Upmix," personally.

How about Dolby Atmux?
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post #847 of 1029 Old 10-07-2018, 12:24 AM
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Historical view of DSU and usage by PC users

Many of you have noticed the release of DSU, but I do not see anyone noticing its arrival on the market, from the more limited release in PC software.
To my knowledge and observations, the direct precursor to DSU is the Surround Decoder, included in Dolby® PC Entertainment Experience v4 (PCEE4), released in 2010. Unlike the previous version of the software, which included Pro-Logic technology, this up-mixer was described as “next-generation frequency-domain matrix surround decoder”, which "Unlike previous wideband technologies, the Surround Decoder operates on a multitude of perceptually spaced frequency bands for finer grain analysis and the ability to steer different frequency bands individually. The result is surround sound with precisely located audio elements and a spacious ambience rendering (that is, the part of the audio that is ambient—indirect, diffused sound—is spread around to make that part of the audio more enveloping)."
This Surround Decoder was subsequently included in later iterations of the software (Dolby Digital Plus for Windows/DS1, Dolby Audio/DAX2, Dolby Atmos for Windows/DAX3). In this year, the app was updated to support height channels (Dolby DAX API version 3, with Dolby XML version 3.3).
What that means to most of us?
Installing the app allows for usage of the DSU (if it was described properly by this forum users to perform similar actions as the surround decoder) on many more systems than is currently present in new Atmos receivers.
If the app is configured on an HDMI endpoint, Surround Decoder generated 5.1/7.1 LPCM can be delivered.
If the app is configured on an S/PDIF endpoint, Surround Decoder generated 5.1 LPCM can be encoded as AC3 and delivered (Dolby Digital Live). Such usage allows for really enhanced up mixer to be used instead of Pro-Logic, or on other cases, up mixing via manufacturer's software, which can be the case on cheap HTIB or soundbar.
The configuration on how to use height channels are not currently known to me, though I noticed its presence on
Personal observations
The surround decoder really does some magic on lossless stereo content. All previously used up mixers by me is using all speakers constantly, with steering allowing for louder content at some speakers at a time. But, it does not completely separate the audio into discrete channels.
Dolby surround decoder seem to do the impossible on music. Main vocals are most often sent on the centre channel (I do not recall any instance where that has not happened). They do not bleed out to any other channel, that is instruments are present in the rest of front and side channels, with no main vocal. The instruments themselves are further separated between the channels. The front channel may play one instrument, while the side channel plays another. Again, no audio bleeding occurs. If we listen on a single channel at a time, it seems that they play one single instrument at a time.
Ambiance vocals are often spread to side channels. Even if a main vocal and ambiance vocals are present at the same time, they are clearly separated between centre and side channels.
It feels that the music was mixed for 5.1, as each channel is dedicated for its own content.
Lossy audio does not fare as well. The actions of separating content are harder, as quantisation noise do disturb the work of the decoder. Side channels, though appear to have separate content, do get a major amount of noise. At times, the audio cannot be clearly delimited between channels. There I do feel that a simpler decoder could do a better job, as the quantisation noise would not be so concentrated. Still, when sitting in the proper position, the noise separation is not that pronounced.
Similarly to DSU, this decoder does not have separate music/movie mode.
I did not test the decoder on stereo movie audio.
I am currently using a simple HTIB, that can only receive 5.1 audio via AC3 encoding. Thus, I am using Dolby Digital Live technology to deliver the results of the decoder to the receiver. I am currently using the Dolby Atmos app for Windows (DAX API v3.2), configured for 3 front speakers, 2 side speakers, 0 height speaker and with subwoofer present. (these are options that can be set in the Dolby configuration XML file)
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post #848 of 1029 Old 10-07-2018, 12:31 AM
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Historical view of DSU and usage by PC users

The configuration on how to use height channels are not currently known to me, though I noticed its presence on

Dolby configuration XML files.
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post #849 of 1029 Old 10-07-2018, 10:10 AM
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Wow, a whole thread to upmix, nice !
What are ur thoughts on upmixed Spotify/Pandora in DTSX and DolbySurround in a 7.1.4 ceiling mount Atmos. Im still enjoing PLIIx, not so much dts upmix
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post #850 of 1029 Old 10-07-2018, 04:03 PM
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Wow, a whole thread to upmix, nice !
What are ur thoughts on upmixed Spotify/Pandora
Streaming services are lossy, so not the best source.

Quote:
Im still enjoing PLIIx, not so much dts upmix
DTS Neural (X) performs better on movies than music.
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post #851 of 1029 Old 10-07-2018, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by junh1024 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
Wow, a whole thread to upmix, nice !
What are ur thoughts on upmixed Spotify/Pandora
Streaming services are lossy, so not the best source.

Quote:
Im still enjoing PLIIx, not so much dts upmix
DTS Neural (X) performs better on movies than music.
For now it’ll do, Dolby surround w/height(atmos) ch. sounds cool . HiRes Pandora would be nice too :0)

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post #852 of 1029 Old 10-09-2018, 08:12 PM
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When set to "straight decode," my Integra receiver is playing a 5.1 DTS HD Master Audio source as 7.2.4 Neural:X. Is that expected behavior? I'm surprised it's not playing as DTS HD Master. I am able to change the mode to DTS HD Master. Does this make any sense? Thanks
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post #853 of 1029 Old 10-10-2018, 05:34 AM
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When set to "straight decode," my Integra receiver is playing a 5.1 DTS HD Master Audio source as 7.2.4 Neural:X. Is that expected behavior? I'm surprised it's not playing as DTS HD Master. I am able to change the mode to DTS HD Master. Does this make any sense? Thanks
Ummm.... This thread is for discussing the Dolby Surround upmixer, not for discussing DTS or Integra receiver menu options.

You'll get more knowledgeable answers by asking in the thread dedicated to your specific Integra receiver model or model year. That said, your description of your symptoms is consistent with the Neural:X upmixer being enabled in the receiver. Personally I find Onkyo's menu options like "straight" quite confusing.

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Ummm.... This thread is for discussing the Dolby Surround upmixer, not for discussing DTS or Integra receiver menu options.

You'll get more knowledgeable answers by asking in the thread dedicated to your specific Integra receiver model or model year. That said, your description of your symptoms is consistent with the Neural:X upmixer being enabled in the receiver. Personally I find Onkyo's menu options like "straight" quite confusing.
Thanks. Neural:X has been discussed quite a bit in this thread. Sometimes threads broaden from the original title.
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post #855 of 1029 Old 10-14-2018, 09:09 AM
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Is it possible to engage my back surround when using dolby surround, now i just get 5.1 and maybe heights ?
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Is it possible to engage my back surround when using dolby surround, now i just get 5.1 and maybe heights ?
Dolby Surround should use all available speakers.
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post #857 of 1029 Old 10-14-2018, 09:41 AM
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Is it possible to engage my back surround when using dolby surround, now i just get 5.1 and maybe heights ?
Your amp assignments in the menu may be setup wrong. If you have rear surrounds and overheads, all the speakers should have some activity with Dolby Surround and Neural: X upmixing unless listening to a monaural source.

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post #858 of 1029 Old 10-16-2018, 01:17 PM
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as for the new DSU; i read if you feed it a 2ch stereo signal it will first upmix that to a 5.1 surround; and from that it extrapolates the height sound information ; very cool!
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post #859 of 1029 Old 11-10-2018, 07:48 AM
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Hello

Is there a device which can upmix stereo signal to Dolby Atmos via hdmi.

I also have soundbar which accept only DTS-X or Dolby Atmos and i have problem with my tv set top box which has only stereo output.
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post #860 of 1029 Old 11-10-2018, 09:13 AM
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Hello

Is there a device which can upmix stereo signal to Dolby Atmos via hdmi.

I also have soundbar which accept only DTS-X or Dolby Atmos and i have problem with my tv set top box which has only stereo output.
Most AVRs that include Dolby Pro Logic or Dolby Surround will upmix a 2.0 signal to 5.1. If the 2.0 signal has Atmos object data encoded, an Atmos capable receiver should decode it.

You might consider updating your STB.

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post #861 of 1029 Old 11-10-2018, 10:13 AM
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Most AVRs that include Dolby Pro Logic or Dolby Surround will upmix a 2.0 signal to 5.1. If the 2.0 signal has Atmos object data encoded, an Atmos capable receiver should decode it.

You might consider updating your STB.

I have Marantz nr1608.


Can it upmix the stereo HDMI to 5.1/7.1 HDMI output?
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post #862 of 1029 Old 11-10-2018, 03:21 PM
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I have Marantz nr1608. Can it upmix the stereo HDMI to 5.1/7.1 HDMI output?
Upmixers do not alter the signals on HDMI, only the signals feeding "speaker" outputs.

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post #863 of 1029 Old 11-10-2018, 03:27 PM
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I also have soundbar which accept only DTS-X or Dolby Atmos
I doubt this. Any soundbar can accept stereo audio. What exactly are you trying to achieve?

Quote:
and i have problem with my tv set top box which has only stereo output.
Does it have a digital output jack, like S/PDIF coax or optical? If so, it will most likely be able to output Dolby Digital 5.1 bitstreams if your cable provider is in the modern world.
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I have Marantz nr1608.


Can it upmix the stereo HDMI to 5.1/7.1 HDMI output?
your Marantz 1608 can upmix 2.0 to 5.1 if you set it to direct + dolby surround in the setup menus

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I doubt this. Any soundbar can accept stereo audio. What exactly are you trying to achieve?

Does it have a digital output jack, like S/PDIF coax or optical? If so, it will most likely be able to output Dolby Digital 5.1 bitstreams if your cable provider is in the modern world.

This is the problem that cable provider is not in the modern world


The soundbar accepts stereo but it play stereo only on the front soundbar but not and on Sub-woofer.


As i understand Nvidia Shield has such an option and may be i should change the provider with such which support Nvidia Shield.
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This is the problem that cable provider is not in the modern world

The soundbar accepts stereo but it play stereo only on the front soundbar but not and on Sub-woofer.

As i understand Nvidia Shield has such an option and may be i should change the provider with such which support Nvidia Shield.
I'm sure there are many folks here who could offer you some excellent answers and advice, but from my perspective we are missing a lot of important information from you. Specifically, all the model numbers for the gear used in this system: cable box and cable provider; any other sources like a DVD player; we know the AVR; soundbar/sub; any other speakers.

And some idea of what you want to achieve would help. Do you want main L/R audio from the soundbar and surround from other speakers? How is the sub connected? Do you have any Atmos height speakers connected?

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I'm sure there are many folks here who could offer you some excellent answers and advice, but from my perspective we are missing a lot of important information from you. Specifically, all the model numbers for the gear used in this system: cable box and cable provider; any other sources like a DVD player; we know the AVR; soundbar/sub; any other speakers.

And some idea of what you want to achieve would help. Do you want main L/R audio from the soundbar and surround from other speakers? How is the sub connected? Do you have any Atmos height speakers connected?

The soundbar is Samsung hw-n950 and has one soundbar,sub-woofer and two surround speakers.


I want the sub-woofer of Samsung hw-n950 to boost the stereo signal but it didn't do it.
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The Samsung hw-n950 use Bluetooth connection for Sub-woofer and surround speakers.
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post #869 of 1029 Old 11-11-2018, 01:17 AM
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The soundbar is Samsung hw-n950 and has one soundbar,sub-woofer and two surround speakers. I want the sub-woofer of Samsung hw-n950 to boost the stereo signal but it didn't do it.
Ok, that helps me understand why you were asking about upmixing in HDMI. Saw your post at the Samsung N950 thread. Unfortunately, that led you down the upmixing rabbit hole.

It appears the stereo mode of the soundbar is not using the subwoofer effectively. That would appear to be a flaw in the design, as noted in this comment:
Quote:
unlike most sound systems or even pc speakers (like the Z906), the N950's sub is very quiet with LPCM or 2.0 channel sources. The only way to get acceptable subwoofer level with these sources is to upmix, and sadly we haven't this setting always available.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Ok, that helps me understand why you were asking about upmixing in HDMI. Saw your post at the Samsung N950 thread. Unfortunately, that led you down the upmixing rabbit hole.

It appears the stereo mode of the soundbar is not using the subwoofer effectively. That would appear to be a flaw in the design, as noted in this comment:

Thank you for your answers.


I will try to contact Samsung support about this problem as it can be caused form firmware but i don't think that they will help much.
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