The Official Dolby Surround Upmixing Thread - Page 30 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 310Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #871 of 1045 Old 11-26-2018, 01:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JaremyP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: MI
Posts: 1,389
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 772 Post(s)
Liked: 432
A lot to read here and I’m looking through it. Curious if anyone has a summary if it’s been discussed about DD+ lossy Atmos (say ITunes) vs. a lossless 5.1/7.1 track upmixed. Any preferences?
meles likes this.

Video: JVC NX7, Stewart Cima Neve 135"
Audio: Marantz AV7704, Emotiva XPA-11 Gen 3
Speakers: Focal Electra 1038 Be x 2, Electra CC 1008 Be, Aria 906 x 8, REL S5 SHO x 2
Sources: Apple TV 4k, Kaleidescape Strato, Oppo 203, Xbox One X, Nintendo Switch
Xbox Live: TrackZ
JaremyP is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #872 of 1045 Old 11-26-2018, 02:47 PM
Senior Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 435
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaremyP View Post
A lot to read here and I’m looking through it. Curious if anyone has a summary if it’s been discussed about DD+ lossy Atmos (say ITunes) vs. a lossless 5.1/7.1 track upmixed. Any preferences?
I'm a primitive upmixer with just the dolby access app giving me my flavor (and its wonderful compared to that on board my sound bar). I am constantly facing the choice between digital versus disc sources.

First off Atmos upmixing of even lowly DD5.1 easily betters Dolby True HD or DTS HD. Within upmixing yes I here a difference in my system between DD5.1 << DD+ <<<TrueHD or DTS HD. Even a movie like Hunt for Red October that does not have a great sound review well is just special upmixed and the disc is the best source. It just depends how much you care about sound. If you couldn't here much of a difference between DD5.1 and Dolby TrueHD then you might here even less of a difference with upmixing between these formats. I'm one of those hopeless types who hears a big difference between 16/44 and 24/96 on the music front (and yes multichannel 24/96 music is very nice upmixed, even Quad), so YMMV.

My big takeway on movie upmixing is that even DD5.1 on a DVD is going to get a great, great boost from Atmos upmixing and perhaps has the most to gain. My system is a bit erratic, but I've heard the most staggering changes from DD 2.0 to 5.1.4 on my system. (Really just one item that I've tried, the horro film Opera, where a huge light fixture crashed down in the hall and it is hilariously improved almost sounding like it came from above and of course the bass is greatly improved.) And its not against the rules to upmix the core of an Atmos signal if you've got a wimpy track.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
meles is offline  
post #873 of 1045 Old 11-26-2018, 02:56 PM
Senior Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 435
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaremyP View Post
A lot to read here and I’m looking through it. Curious if anyone has a summary if it’s been discussed about DD+ lossy Atmos (say ITunes) vs. a lossless 5.1/7.1 track upmixed. Any preferences?
If the original Atmos track is rather mundane with just a few cheap effects thrown in you might enjoy the lossless bluray upmixed. A good track on DD+ Atmos will kill a great lossless upmixed because you can't just upmix your way even close for real Atmos effects.

ITunes suddenly is featuring a lot of Atmos content that is not on disc or on other digital services. Green Room is DV/Atmos on iTunes. I'm presently pulling my hair out over where to watch the Martian; Atmos with HDR on iTunes vs Dolby Vision and DD+ on Vudu, and of course the disc is HDR/DTAtmos.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
meles is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #874 of 1045 Old 12-12-2018, 10:17 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tezster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Mississauga, Canada
Posts: 1,711
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 646 Post(s)
Liked: 545
For those of you who subscribe to Netflix, select episodes of The Haunting of Hill House sounds fantastically scary upmixed via DSU (or Neural:X). Specifically, two storms (ep06) and Witness Marks (ep08) have scenes where immersive audio contributes greatly to the atmosphere.
meles likes this.
tezster is offline  
post #875 of 1045 Old 12-12-2018, 11:03 PM
Senior Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 435
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked: 110
So has anyone bothered to figured out how to upmix multichannel music, quad, dts cd, dvda, sacd etc.? I was pretty upset with and HD DVD player and pulled it out of my system because it wouldn't digitally stream. I've been doing so by hook and by crook with pretty uniformly amazing results. I've never cared for multi-channel music all that much, but the Atmos upmix effect just adds so much presence to the sound that its rather amazing.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
meles is offline  
post #876 of 1045 Old 12-14-2018, 06:41 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Selden Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 14,833
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4815 Post(s)
Liked: 2850
Quote:
Originally Posted by meles View Post
So has anyone bothered to figured out how to upmix multichannel music, quad, dts cd, dvda, sacd etc.? I was pretty upset with and HD DVD player and pulled it out of my system because it wouldn't digitally stream. I've been doing so by hook and by crook with pretty uniformly amazing results. I've never cared for multi-channel music all that much, but the Atmos upmix effect just adds so much presence to the sound that its rather amazing.

Dolby Surrsound is limited in that it won't upmix to speakers designated as Front Wide or to a single, rear Center Surround speaker. Otherwise, all of the modern upmixers (Dolby Surround, DTS Neural:X and Auromatic) should work with all of the formats you mention, so long as you have more speakers than there are channels in the incoming soundtrack.

Do you have some indication that they don't work?

Edited to add: With Denon and Marantz equipment, all you have to do is press one of the Movie, Music or Game buttons on the remote and, while playing the soundtrack, select the upmixer that you want to listen to.
meles likes this.

Selden

Marantz SR7009 avr + MM9000 amp --> Atmos 7.1.4
Fronts=NHT 2.9+AC2, FH+TM=DefTech PM1000, LCR+TM amped
Selden Ball is offline  
post #877 of 1045 Old 12-14-2018, 08:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Jonas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: South Bay Area
Posts: 5,720
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2839 Post(s)
Liked: 1813
Quote:
Originally Posted by meles View Post
I've never cared for multi-channel music all that much, but the Atmos upmix effect just adds so much presence to the sound that its rather amazing.

You should try some music material mixed in Dolby Atmos!
mikela and meles like this.

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
Jonas2 is offline  
post #878 of 1045 Old 12-14-2018, 11:24 AM
Senior Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 435
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Dolby Surrsound is limited in that it won't upmix to speakers designated as Front Wide or to a single, rear Center Surround speaker. Otherwise, all of the modern upmixers (Dolby Surround, DTS Neural:X and Auromatic) should work with all of the formats you mention, so long as you have more speakers than there are channels in the incoming soundtrack.

Do you have some indication that they don't work?

Edited to add: With Denon and Marantz equipment, all you have to do is press one of the Movie, Music or Game buttons on the remote and, while playing the soundtrack, select the upmixer that you want to listen to.
Don't have a receiver or htpc (yet!) so wasn't sure if you could put an SACD in a drive of an approved player and send it to receiver for upmixing. Bluray audio discs are easy to imagine working plus hd downloads. I see some SACD players with hdmi output, so is that the only way is to have hdmi out on player?

Two channel upmixed seems to be improved by Atmos and I like youtube etc. upmixed, but multi-channel seems to be levels better for sound. For stereo I have nice two channel system I really like. For multi I'm amazed how close deluxe Atmos soundbar does overall compared to premium two channel setups.

Another question I have is whether all dolby surround is equal. My K950's surround setting is not nearly as good overall compared to what I get using the dolby access app. Are all receivers equivalent when it comes to Dolby Surround processing? Are they identical to Atmos app when adjustments set to neutral? Is there some other format that might be achieved playing back media on a windows 10 machine other than Atmos? I'm about to do htpc with foobar as well to output upmixed Atmos to my sound bar. I'm not aware of receivers having HDMI output where one could feed a sound bar; is there such a preamp or receiver?

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
meles is offline  
post #879 of 1045 Old 12-14-2018, 11:35 AM
Senior Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 435
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
You should try some music material mixed in Dolby Atmos!
I've got a few and Roger Waters the Wall is amazing (though not full recorded for Atmos?) Also have Mehta doing Liszt and Beethoven pcs with Israel Philramonic; really impressive sound.

I seriously doubt Atmos will replace stereo (though it should) due to recording costs. I'm so impressed with Quad upmixed that you wonder if that would be an achievable standard for music recording. With Atmos being both a headphone format (like binaural) and a format for a 60 channel system plus everything in between, it just seems like finally something might happen.

I like Atmos upmixing, but I've been more impressed with dts headphone X (ipad Fandangonow and on android possibly). One can set for over ear headphones, in ear, or external speakers. The upmixing is the key element and sadly DTS doesn't seem to have a universal solution for lesser devices. I'm quite irritated with my ipad pro as its got dv/hdr for itunes, but does not have an upmixer of any kind (though I suspect they do some enhancements for ipad's speakers.)

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
meles is offline  
post #880 of 1045 Old 12-14-2018, 12:41 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,556
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3001 Post(s)
Liked: 1765
Quote:
Originally Posted by meles View Post
Don't have a receiver or htpc (yet!) so wasn't sure if you could put an SACD in a drive of an approved player and send it to receiver for upmixing.
As long as your SACD player can output multi-channel PCM, you can upmix it same as any other 5.1 content.

Quote:
Another question I have is whether all dolby surround is equal. My K950's surround setting is not nearly as good overall compared to what I get using the dolby access app. Are all receivers equivalent when it comes to Dolby Surround processing? Are they identical to Atmos app when adjustments set to neutral? Is there some other format that might be achieved playing back media on a windows 10 machine other than Atmos?
I do not have Dolby Access, but from what I have read, it is a headphone virtualizer to play Atmos encoded content (e.g. movies and video games) through normal headphones. Dolby Surround is not a virtualizer -- it expands sources to utilize more speakers.

Quote:
I'm about to do htpc with foobar as well to output upmixed Atmos to my sound bar. I'm not aware of receivers having HDMI output where one could feed a sound bar; is there such a preamp or receiver?
HTPCs usually have HDMI outputs, and I use mine to feed an Atmos processor. Not sure if by receiver you mean AVR, but those are intend to drive speakers -- and a soundbar can be thought of as a set of speakers, but not when connected through HDMI.

I am not aware of a way to activate Dolby Surround on a PC, and even if that is possible, how that would make sense to feed a soundbar which presumably has way less than the number of speakers needed for Atmos playback. If you want to hear an Atmos effect from a soundbar, feed Atmos bitstreams into an Atmos equipped soundbar.
meles likes this.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win10 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #881 of 1045 Old 12-14-2018, 01:04 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Selden Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 14,833
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4815 Post(s)
Liked: 2850
Quote:
Originally Posted by meles View Post
Don't have a receiver or htpc (yet!) so wasn't sure if you could put an SACD in a drive of an approved player and send it to receiver for upmixing.
You can.

Bear in mind, however, that some receivers can decode SACD (or DSD) and some can't. If they can't, the disc player has to decode SACD into LPCM.
Quote:
Bluray audio discs are easy to imagine working plus hd downloads. I see some SACD players with hdmi output, so is that the only way is to have hdmi out on player?
Yes: HDMI provides the encryption that Sony requires.

Sony does not allow their SACD digital audio products to be transmitted unencrypted. They don't want pirates to be able to create bit-perfect copies of their high resolution audio products. Because of this, the earliest SACD players (before HDMI existed) sent the SACD audio only to analog outputs. SACD soundtracks were (and still are) downgraded to CD quality when sent over S/PDIF connections.
Quote:
Two channel upmixed seems to be improved by Atmos
Atmos is not produced by upmixing. It's a way for a movie or music director to encode a 3D soundfield into a multichannel soundtrack. However, in principle at least, a computer could encode a 3D soundtrack into an Atmos container. As best I can tell from its descriptions, the use of the term Atmos to describe "Dolby Access" and Dolby's other new two-channel products, is, shall we say, very misleading.
Quote:
and I like youtube etc. upmixed, but multi-channel seems to be levels better for sound. For stereo I have nice two channel system I really like. For multi I'm amazed how close deluxe Atmos soundbar does overall compared to premium two channel setups.
A full multi-channel speaker setup with speakers behind you and in (or on) the ceiling is even better!
Quote:
Another question I have is whether all dolby surround is equal.
Yes: devices which implement Doiby Atmos decoding and Dolby Surround upmixing have to be certiied by Dolby.
Quote:
My K950's surround setting is not nearly as good overall compared to what I get using the dolby access app.
Dolby Access is not Dolby Surround. The different name indicates that it complies with a different Dolby standard, although it might produce similar results. You have to be careful, too, because audio which is only very slightly louder usually sounds better.
Quote:
Are all receivers equivalent when it comes to Dolby Surround processing?
Yes. See above.

However, some support more speakers. For example, some support only 2 overhead speakers, while more expensive models support 4 or even 6.
Quote:
Are they identical to Atmos app when adjustments set to neutral?
No.

Atmos soundtracks are designed by a movie (or music) director and by the person mixing them.

Dolby Surround applies a proprietary upmixing algorithm to 2.0, 5.1 or 7.1 soundtracks which extracts sounds from ear-level speaker channels and moves them to however meny speakers you have. The results are "random" and not what the director intended.
Quote:
Is there some other format that might be achieved playing back media on a windows 10 machine other than Atmos?
Windows includes its own 2D upmixing software. Windows media player software (like fubar 2000 and Kodi) can pass-through other audio encodings like DTS:X and Auro-3D.
Quote:
I'm about to do htpc with foobar as well to output upmixed Atmos to my sound bar.
Note my comments above. You can't upmix to Atmos, although you can pass-through a soundtrack which was recorded in Atmos format.
Quote:
I'm not aware of receivers having HDMI output where one could feed a sound bar; is there such a preamp or receiver?
[/quote]

Unfortunately, they aren't intended to be used that way. You should think of your soundbar as being a specialized receiver which just happens to include speakers in it. You can plug your PC's HDMI output directly into the soundbar, for example. In principle, the HDMI output of a receiver can be plugged into one of a soundbar's HDMI inputs, but people who've done this have been, shall we say, less than happy with the results. That usually results in only a stereo connection.

Some soundbars are designed to be used with receivers, but audio usually is sent to them using speaker binding posts, not HDMI connections.
meles likes this.

Selden

Marantz SR7009 avr + MM9000 amp --> Atmos 7.1.4
Fronts=NHT 2.9+AC2, FH+TM=DefTech PM1000, LCR+TM amped
Selden Ball is offline  
post #882 of 1045 Old 12-14-2018, 04:25 PM
Senior Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 435
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Atmos soundtracks are designed by a movie (or music) director and by the person mixing them.

Dolby Surround applies a proprietary upmixing algorithm to 2.0, 5.1 or 7.1 soundtracks which extracts sounds from ear-level speaker channels and moves them to however meny speakers you have. The results are "random" and not what the director intended.
.
My K950 5.1.4 sound bar most definitely does upmix. The K950 sales lingo at Samsung says "Proprietary Surround Sound Expansion Plus upconverts audio content to up to 5.1.4 channels, adding overhead sound dimension to virtually anything you watch." Of course the manual makes no mention of this. Just to confuse you more Samsung has an effect button. You have to have surround off and then you can do sports and movie which they state in the manual output 5.1.4 channels.

Dolby's documentation of their Access app is worse. They make no mention of its upmixing capabilities or "Dolby Surround".

I'll agree that any upmixing is not what the director intended. "Random"? Its way to impressive on my system to throw that kind of adjective at the mysterious magic of the Dolby Access app. Director or not I've never heard music or a movie that sounds better without it. My soundbar is just a bar with three little drivers per channel roughly and the satellite have something that looks just like one of these drivers. Play stereo straight and it sounds like you're listening to three little speakers (this tragedy probably only really happens when hooking up blue tooth as the sub is used otherwise with stereo). Send it dolby access upmixing and suddenly the sub is used and the upward firing speakers and the sound is transformed and about 100 times better. Send it 5.1 and no upmixing and now you have the sub engaged and it waddles along about like what you'd expect, decent, but certainly not earth shattering sound; as the director intended but really nothing to write home about. Engage the dolby access app to take things to 5.1.4 and well the results are uniformly excellent. I can't even began to describe how it seems to read the directors mind and remasters the sound; sonic sorcery of the highest order. I've even taken to sometimes over riding the directors Atmos track like on West World and while the overt affects do not work anywhere nears as well (I'll just switch back to the original Atmos track for the shootem' up scenes) the already interesting musical score goes to another level. The upmix sound is tremendous with multi-channel music as well. Its far, far from "random"; its miraculous.

Now I don't know what everyone else is hearing because Dolby has like 0.0 documentation on Dolby Access upmixing and little on the new confusing term Dolby Surround (Dolby upmixing to Atmos) which appears to be standard for all receivers. Maybe Dolby is doing something different with the Access app.

I've never heard Auro and just DTS headphone X's variations let alone their upmixing. Maybe its my .4 Atmos enabled speakers that bounce off the ceiling that's helping with this sorcery. Whatever is going on I absolutely love it. I've just been recently checking out quad, 5.0 music, etc. Access upmixed and more thoroughly convincing sonic sophistry.

Surely someone at AVSforum has used Foobar2000 on windows 10, engaged dolby access and then sent this same Atmos via hdmi output to a receiver? I'm beginning to wonder if these are somehow different especially given the processing power of modern pc or Xbox versus a receiver.

(The above is of course separate from an Atmos track where the artists master or remaster in Atmos. I'm guessing I've got at least 200 movies right now with Atmos plus a few music blurays.)

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)

Last edited by meles; 12-14-2018 at 04:37 PM.
meles is offline  
post #883 of 1045 Old 12-14-2018, 04:33 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 15,356
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4344 Post(s)
Liked: 3082
My speaker setup is currently 7.1 and I can still pick Dolby Surround on 7.1 soundtracks (whether TrueHD or DTS-HD MA). What's it doing if the input signal already maps 1:1 to my speakers?
Stereodude is offline  
post #884 of 1045 Old 12-14-2018, 07:29 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,556
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3001 Post(s)
Liked: 1765
Quote:
Originally Posted by meles View Post
My K950 5.1.4 sound bar most definitely does upmix.

Dolby's documentation of their Access app is worse. They make no mention of its upmixing capabilities or "Dolby Surround".

Engage the dolby access app to take things to 5.1.4 and well the results are uniformly excellent.

Now I don't know what everyone else is hearing because Dolby has like 0.0 documentation on Dolby Access upmixing and little on the new confusing term Dolby Surround (Dolby upmixing to Atmos) which appears to be standard for all receivers. Maybe Dolby is doing something different with the Access app.
The reason Dolby makes no mention about Dolby Access upmixing is because it does not do upmixing. Dolby Surround is their upmixer.
meles likes this.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win10 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #885 of 1045 Old 12-14-2018, 07:32 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,556
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3001 Post(s)
Liked: 1765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
My speaker setup is currently 7.1 and I can still pick Dolby Surround on 7.1 soundtracks (whether TrueHD or DTS-HD MA). What's it doing if the input signal already maps 1:1 to my speakers?
Nothing, assuming the AVR knows there are no additional height speakers connected. Are you hearing anything different?

If the source is 5.1 or less, then it will apply upmixing.
ChromeJob likes this.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win10 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #886 of 1045 Old 12-14-2018, 09:07 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 15,356
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4344 Post(s)
Liked: 3082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Nothing, assuming the AVR knows there are no additional height speakers connected. Are you hearing anything different?
No, I'm not hearing anything different. I was just surprised that I could even pick it. In the past PLIIx couldn't be picked if you had a 7.1 speaker setup and the source was also 7.1.
Stereodude is offline  
post #887 of 1045 Old 12-14-2018, 09:20 PM
Senior Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 435
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
The reason Dolby makes no mention about Dolby Access upmixing is because it does not do upmixing. Dolby Surround is their upmixer.
And yet Dolby Access does. Is it some secret upmixing weapon.
Dolby should be shot for calling their new upmixing by an old name, Dolby Surround.

I'm seriously beginning to wonder what is going on. I'll place my bet on PC or even Xbox having more processing power to do a better job upmixing then some dumb preamp/receiver.

You say Dolby Surround is random and Dolby Access does not upmix while my own experience shows Access does upmix on both windows 10 and Xbox, apparently doing a much better job than the random sound of Dolby Surround receivers.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
meles is offline  
post #888 of 1045 Old 12-15-2018, 02:14 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,556
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3001 Post(s)
Liked: 1765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
No, I'm not hearing anything different. I was just surprised that I could even pick it. In the past PLIIx couldn't be picked if you had a 7.1 speaker setup and the source was also 7.1.
I think the product is simply registering your upmixing selection, which will be used when input conditions permit.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win10 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #889 of 1045 Old 12-15-2018, 02:30 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,556
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3001 Post(s)
Liked: 1765
Quote:
Originally Posted by meles View Post
And yet Dolby Access does. Is it some secret upmixing weapon.

You say Dolby Surround is random and Dolby Access does not upmix while my own experience shows Access does upmix on both windows 10 and Xbox, apparently doing a much better job than the random sound of Dolby Surround receivers.
I never said Dolby Surround was random, but someone maybe did. Dolby Surround will produce the same outputs every time a given signal is played. That's not random.

When you activate Dolby Access in the X-Box, which mode are you using? Dolby Atmos for Headphones? Other?
And you are feeding the X-Box into the HW-K950 via HDMI?
What does the HW-K950 report as the input signal? Does it say Dolby Atmos?
What is the source -- a Dolby Atmos movie, video game, other?

I'm not doubting what you hear, just trying to better understand what all is operating in the system.


Quote:
I'm seriously beginning to wonder what is going on. I'll place my bet on PC or even Xbox having more processing power to do a better job upmixing then some dumb preamp/receiver.
The HW-K950 does not appear to have Dolby Surround, but a Samsung-proprietary upmixer "Surround Sound Expansion Plus." Do you have another AVR with Dolby Surround for comparison?
meles likes this.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win10 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #890 of 1045 Old 12-15-2018, 06:44 PM
Senior Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 435
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
I never said Dolby Surround was random, but someone maybe did. Dolby Surround will produce the same outputs every time a given signal is played. That's not random.

When you activate Dolby Access in the X-Box, which mode are you using? Dolby Atmos for Headphones? Other?
And you are feeding the X-Box into the HW-K950 via HDMI?
What does the HW-K950 report as the input signal? Does it say Dolby Atmos?
What is the source -- a Dolby Atmos movie, video game, other?

I'm not doubting what you hear, just trying to better understand what all is operating in the system.


The HW-K950 does not appear to have Dolby Surround, but a Samsung-proprietary upmixer "Surround Sound Expansion Plus." Do you have another AVR with Dolby Surround for comparison?
I have headphones license, but I just use Atmos setting in place of DTS and its set to bitstream out. Hdmi cables only are used. K950 says Dolby Atmos and has its blue light on which is typical when receiving Atmos. Sources used on Xbox:
1. Vudu
2. FandangoNow
3. VLC for bluray rip playback and also 24bit flac music and other multi-channel music formats
4. Internal Xbox bluray player app
5. Forza Horizon 4 game
6. Dolby Access App demos
7. Insects Demo/Game which allows toggling on and off of HDR and Atmos - cool demo
8. Youtube
9. Netflix (not currently enrolled)
10. HDMI input - this was designed for TV boxes, but I have my Oppo 203's hdmi audio out going into it. And of course have a five way switch on the Oppo's hdmi input to allow up to five sources - an ATV4K (set on dd5.1 if going to Xbox), audio from Sony X700 4K player, Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD bluray player, and a Roku Prem+.
Crude system diagram showing hdmi connections:

The two hdmi switches currently are swapped with each other. The K950 is set so no audio from the TV comes to it unless you manually switch the source from HDMI to D In. 99% of what I listen to is either Atmos or Dolby Access upmixed Atmos. My Harmony 665 remote controls all of this with 7 activities that get me into the various areas of the system. The remote has screen options to toggle back and forth between Upmix and No Upmix. For the ATV4K screen also have to have Atmos button to positions the hdmi switches for when I manually change the ATV4K from DD5.1 to essentially Atmos. System pretty much maximizes DV/Atmos experience with a lot of Vudu and iTunes titles (~80% are Dolby Vision, DV).

I do not like the Samsung Surround Sound Expansion Plus. The only time I have to use it is if I play a Dolby Vision DTS HD disc on the Oppo. The Xbox One S does not do DV discs (just added Netflix only for DV). The K950 accepts the base layer DTS signal directly (Xbox does not accept DTS!) and in these cases I do Surround On (the Expansion Plus) or Movie a 5.1.4 "Effect". One can play discs or bluray rips (via VLC app) on the Xbox with full dts hd sound and it will upmix them and send out PCM Atmos (with discs they may now have a setting to stop this which I don't use).

With Acccess both on the Xbox One S and Windows 10 they always convert the signal and output Atmos. With the K950 you have little doubt when you are or are not receiving Atmos. One can toggle Xbox disc setting and its sending Atmos signal, but with upward firing speakers dead and this might confuse a very literal user, but if you listen the difference is dramatic. With an authentic Atmos source like Blade Runner 2049 you get deafening bass levels that vibrate the thorax nicely and make you wonder if the subwoofer might melt or blow up. Many K950 users complain about this or want to turn it down. I run my sub on -3, but its in corner of room. Turning it down to -4 or the more drastic steps hurts the overall sound too much. Going up to -2 hurts it. I play incredibly loud now for like a year and spare the subwoofer no quarter. The Atmos tracks often move the base all around so it seems like I'm surrounded by full range speakers and can even make the bass sound like its coming from behind you. When up send the K950 Access upmixed bass it gets dramatically bassier than the original track. On average the Access bass is even stronger than that found on the Atmos tracks. Add to this that the general level is much, much higher so you have to turn down the volume a lot. There is little doubt the difference between the original 5.1 sound and the upmixed Atmos because one is absolutely wallowing in bass not to mention the upmixer trying to move it around some as well. I also sometimes activate two more subwoofers for below 40 hz via the Oppo's analog subwoofer out.

I do not have another AVR and I don't know anyone with an Atmos system nearby. This is why I mention dolby access app hoping that some HTPC upmixer might unleash the access beast hiding within windows 10 and compare. (I'm strongly considering doing HTPC because I want Dolby Access from there as well with madVR, etc..) My remote friend who does have Atmos is not very technical and so I'm here.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)

Last edited by meles; 12-15-2018 at 06:53 PM.
meles is offline  
post #891 of 1045 Old 12-15-2018, 08:19 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,556
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3001 Post(s)
Liked: 1765
Now I understand the phrase in your signature: "HDMI Gone Wild"

Quote:
Originally Posted by meles View Post
Many K950 users complain about this or want to turn it down. I run my sub on -3, but its in corner of room.
The only subwoofer I see is connected to the Oppo rather than the K950. Is that right?

What is the box "AVR Key" after the ATV4K?

Ok, you have ruled out the Samsung expansion as well as Atmos for Headphones, so that somewhat simplifies matters. As for what really happens in Dolby Access with non-Atmos content, I am doing a bit of digging to see if there's upmixing involved or not. Your evidence suggests there is -- but if so, why no mention of it from Dolby? Anyway, will advise if I get any useful info.
meles likes this.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win10 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #892 of 1045 Old 12-15-2018, 11:03 PM
Senior Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 435
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Now I understand the phrase in your signature: "HDMI Gone Wild"

The only subwoofer I see is connected to the Oppo rather than the K950. Is that right?

What is the box "AVR Key" after the ATV4K?

Ok, you have ruled out the Samsung expansion as well as Atmos for Headphones, so that somewhat simplifies matters. As for what really happens in Dolby Access with non-Atmos content, I am doing a bit of digging to see if there's upmixing involved or not. Your evidence suggests there is -- but if so, why no mention of it from Dolby? Anyway, will advise if I get any useful info.
Yes. I could get a bunch of $500 hdmi cables, but that would be a $9000 investment into a $3000 system.

My system is really my first videophile foray. I've tinkered, but I've been very, very happy with my extended two channel system doing 24 bit stereo on bluray. Believe it or not I got forced into this because nothing has analog audio outputs these days. Even after getting my LG I badly wanted to extract or have bluray quality analog two channel audio into my big rig and move on.

I decided that the K950 at a discount was a good choice to save all of the expensive vacuum tubes in my stereo system and so it begun. Had the Oppo 205, but it did not satisfy me on the analog front, so dropped back to the 203 without looking back though I must admit I wonder if my analog outs for the subs might be a touch better now.

I'm amazed you're not familiar with the ATV4K which is short for Apple TV 4K. Its made fantastic progress over the last year as the Cadillac of devices. The only let down has been that Apple did not open up Atmos sound enough for Infuse app to play it back. Itunes (and Vudu) are amazing to me because they have so many titles in dolby vision, most of which are just HDR on disc. I got the HDFury AVR key early on. It allows me to split the dolby vision video direct to my tv and send the audio either directly to the soundbar (well it goes through another splitter and a switch) or to the Xbox for Access Atmos upmixing. Its a pricey gadget, but peanuts when you consider the cost of the TV.

The Samsung HW-K950 has a most powerful subwoofer that does the chest thumping from 40 Hz up. I'm shocked at how loud it can go and I guess the fact that it goes down to only 40 hz and then rolls off quickly helps it deliver more than you'd think from an 8 inch woofer. I have a 20 foot by 25 foot room and its absolutely obscene what it does. The subwoofers connected to the Oppo just are analog version of the 0.1 of 5.1. i bought a deluxe german spliter for $15 so I can have two rca connectors from the back of the Oppo. These go to a pair of Dynaudio isobaric subs that are part of my main speakers. When you could get these woofers they last sold for $440 each, so that's $1800 worth of drivers. I'm intrigued by some youtube videos extolling the vibrational capabilities of these at low frequencies. I've got one of my drivers rubbing and they are hard to come buy these days (Dynaudio only sells around $50k and above speaker systems these days and won't sell drivers even to a manufacturer. So I'm very much a chicken and frankly the speakers were never designed for prodigous amounts of 10 hz base. I used 12db crossover at 40 hz built into Oppo so these handle 40 hz and below. My best config so far is a Bendix Mu 6900 line stage (a now $500 vacuum tube from MX missles that has incredible low end) driving a Placette 100 step passive volume control built exclusively with bulk foil resistors that cost over $15 each. The Placette has a funny remote which I just programmed into the Harmony under my channel up and down buttons which aren't much use these days. The Monster Sigma interconnects bring this all to an Electron Kinetics Eagle 2A rebuilt with black gate capacitors and a 75% boost in power supply to 290,000uF. The subs are hardwired to with Van Den hul magnum 8 guage cable (I'd love another pair to double up for 5 guage). This is all from my existing two channel big rig and it just cost me $15 for the slitter and now I have three subwoofers with a rather unique sound. I would never recommend this to anyone. A tight controlled isobaric sub system like this done right will tighten up the general sound and give crisper, seemingly more extended highs probably due to the piston like control of the lower frequency spectrum offered by the isobaric subs. (I here the effect with a couple audiofools in the area who run isobarics with original Quads and the the base Magneplanar speakers.) The ATV4K and Xbox output PCM Atmos which the Oppo won't accept via its hdmi input so my upmixed music can't use the extra subs nor my iTunes Atmos stuff (my X700's DD+ Atmos does go through the Oppo for Vudu when I want.) Just to turn the screw in me a little more I very much like the sound of what Apple is doing with iTunes and PCM Atmos (an early opinion on my part from the last few weeks). All this subwoofer insanity for another $15 out of my pocket.

At this point on the Access upmixing, I think its time for someone with a windows 10 HTPC and a reciever to step up to the plate. Just get access on the box and toggle it on in settings so the HTPC outputs Access Atmos. A receiver should treat it as regular Atmos and leave it untouched if desired.

What I think we want to know and really AVSforum needs to know is what is the difference between Dolby Surround Atmos upmixing and the Dolby Access app upmixing. I do know that the Access app on xbox works differently (worse) with the K950's successor the Samsung HW-N950. I don't know the details of this well, but it could be that the K950 is causing some odd behavior for Dolby Access that happens to be simply wonderful together.

Yes. This is not Samsung Expansion or headphones at all. Settings in Windows 10 for Access gone wild:

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
meles is offline  
post #893 of 1045 Old 12-16-2018, 12:48 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,556
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3001 Post(s)
Liked: 1765
Quote:
Originally Posted by meles View Post
I'm amazed you're not familiar with the ATV4K which is short for Apple TV 4K.
I was asking about the the box labeled "AVR Key". And now I have the answer:
Quote:
I got the HDFury AVR key early on. It allows me to split the dolby vision video direct to my tv and send the audio either directly to the soundbar (well it goes through another splitter and a switch) or to the Xbox for Access Atmos upmixing.
meles likes this.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win10 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #894 of 1045 Old 12-17-2018, 08:29 AM
Senior Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 435
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
I was asking about the the box labeled "AVR Key". And now I have the answer:
Had a thought that perhaps Access app reacts differently depending on component it feeds. It may be the Samsung K950 that Access has determined that upmixing is the best choice for non-Atmos tracks. This makes sense because the alternatives are regular DTS, DD5.1, and DD+. For me everything is upmixed, but maybe with a different system (like a receiver with Dolby Surround), it would not upmix and allow the receiver the choice. I'm not aware of any way to control Access. From my experience it will upmix everything.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
meles is offline  
post #895 of 1045 Old 12-18-2018, 08:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jsgrise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Province of Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,282
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 691 Post(s)
Liked: 693
I am new to 7.2.4 (coming from 5.2.4) and when listening to an upmix 5.1 track, I found that DSU muffled the side surrounds. Is this normal? I'm trying to understand what DSU does with Surrounds and Surround Backs.

MAKE AUDIO GREAT AGAIN | Dedicated Sonus Faber HT 7.2.4 | FRONTS: Sonus Faber Venere 2.0 CENTER: Sonus Faber Venere Centre FRONT WIDES: Sonus Faber Venere 1.5 SURROUNDS: Sonus Faber Venere 1.5 TF/TR - ATMOS-DTS:X: Sonus Faber Venere Wall (4) | RECEIVER: Marantz SR7010 AMPLIFICATION: Monolith 7x200 | SUBWOOFERS: Dual 18" Dayton RSS460 Custom Build | Behringer iNuke 6000DSP | Velodyne SMS-1 DISPLAY: JVC D-ILA RS-46 w/ 128" 16:9 1.4 TREATMENT: Custom Bass Traps and Acoustic Panels (11)
jsgrise is offline  
post #896 of 1045 Old 12-18-2018, 09:28 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 136
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked: 18
nueral x sounds better than dolby surround for me.
jsgrise likes this.
michael1997 is offline  
post #897 of 1045 Old 12-19-2018, 01:34 AM
Advanced Member
 
Ben Tan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 927
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 531 Post(s)
Liked: 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post
I am new to 7.2.4 (coming from 5.2.4) and when listening to an upmix 5.1 track, I found that DSU muffled the side surrounds. Is this normal? I'm trying to understand what DSU does with Surrounds and Surround Backs.
I believe it depends on the content. Not everything sounds great upmixed.

But generally no, your bed level surrounds shouldn't be muffled when using DSU (or Neural X). At least it doesn't for me unless the movie I'm watching simply doesn't sound good upmixed in the first place.
jsgrise likes this.

SVS Ultra Bookshelf + SVS Ultra Center
Prime Bookshelf Surround with Prime Elevation Heights
Dual Rythmik FV15HP
Yamaha RX-A3060 + Parasound Halo A31 + Emotiva A500
Ben Tan is offline  
post #898 of 1045 Old 12-19-2018, 08:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Jonas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: South Bay Area
Posts: 5,720
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2839 Post(s)
Liked: 1813
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post
I am new to 7.2.4 (coming from 5.2.4) and when listening to an upmix 5.1 track, I found that DSU muffled the side surrounds. Is this normal? I'm trying to understand what DSU does with Surrounds and Surround Backs.

Like what Ben said, I find it content dependent. I do find this to be more common in actual 5.1 mixes - where the rear surrounds become the prominent surround speakers and the sides are either minimal use or silent. I've found this on cable TV, streaming apps, and BDs. Typically the exception not the rule, but it is curious to me. I've actually found though that everything (so far) that I've done in 2-channel seems to upmix the way you'd *expect* it to interestingly enough?
jsgrise likes this.

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
Jonas2 is offline  
post #899 of 1045 Old 12-27-2018, 03:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Redskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,394
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 23
I am sure this has been mentioned, so apologize if repeated.

I have a 5.2.2 setup. If DSU is set, I understand that the processor upmixes the content into the overhead speaker for non-atmos content. If I play a bluray that is native Atmos, do I need to change anything in my receiver, or will it play the native Atmos content discretely, as it should without additional processing?

I guess what I am asking, can I leave my receiver on Dolby Surround and just forget about it, knowing that my receiver will upmix non-Atmos material, and leave Atmos material alone?

Thanks!
Greg

Last edited by Redskin; 12-27-2018 at 03:31 PM.
Redskin is offline  
post #900 of 1045 Old 12-27-2018, 04:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
GPBURNS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 1,221
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 440 Post(s)
Liked: 828
Nice thread – just discovered – just into revisiting library with height upgrades (7.4.4 setup)
and of course new material – stoked with results-no idea upgrade so substantial –
One of those upgrades that improves everything-
Just going thru Pacific mini series – spectacular with height up mixing - DSU and DTSNX both sound great –
There is a very neat effect watching documentary They shall not grow old- first part of film they are showing very old black and white film clips – from 5.1 mix – the film projector can be heard way to back of room and raised up slightly-
can swear its an old film projector in room. very cool
meles likes this.

15400 Watts of Atmos Seaton Power -Quad SubMersived - JVC N7
GPBURNS is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off