Made the mistake of buying Bose Cinemate - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 59 Old 10-23-2014, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Made the mistake of buying Bose Cinemate

I recently purchased the Bose Cinemate GS. I have a 2006 model of Pioneer VSX Receiver (don't have access to the exact model other than it was one of the last models that didn't do audio through HDMI and only video if that helps). The Bose Cinemate replaced this Pioneer receiver and the Bose sounds good but, its not dramatically better than what I bought 8 years ago.

I got the Bose on special for $400 and I would like to get a good sub and receiver, if possible for this price. I would like to replace the speakers in place at a later time.

I don't know much about receivers and any and all help would be welcome

Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 59 Old 10-23-2014, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by theaandg View Post
I recently purchased the Bose Cinemate GS. I have a 2006 model of Pioneer VSX Receiver (don't have access to the exact model other than it was one of the last models that didn't do audio through HDMI and only video if that helps). The Bose Cinemate replaced this Pioneer receiver and the Bose sounds good but, its not dramatically better than what I bought 8 years ago.

I got the Bose on special for $400 and I would like to get a good sub and receiver, if possible for this price. I would like to replace the speakers in place at a later time.

I don't know much about receivers and any and all help would be welcome

Thanks in advance.
I don't mean anything mean spirited, but when I read your post, I got a good laugh. in any event, if you only plan to spend $400.00 for both a receiver and sub, just get a good home theater in a box. Not much better can be had with the kind of budget you have at this time unless you want to go with used audio.
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post #3 of 59 Old 10-23-2014, 10:09 PM
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He could sell the Bose stuff and use the proceeds plus the $400 and have a decent setup. Used Bose stuff generally sells well and you could get most or all of your money back.

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post #4 of 59 Old 10-24-2014, 12:43 AM
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if he recently purchased the Cinemates, why not return it? then buy a receiver, sub and a pair of speakers?

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post #5 of 59 Old 10-24-2014, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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As I was thinking about this, I would like to just focus right now on the receiver right now. I will look to upgrade the sub at a later date. I can return the Bose as it has only been a week.

Any suggestions for a receiver only for between $600 and $800

I had heard good things about this model....thoughts or recommendations for any other models?

http://www.onkyousa.com/Products/mod...class=Receiver
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post #6 of 59 Old 10-24-2014, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by theaandg View Post
As I was thinking about this, I would like to just focus right now on the receiver right now. I will look to upgrade the sub at a later date. I can return the Bose as it has only been a week.

Any suggestions for a receiver only for between $600 and $800

I had heard good things about this model....thoughts or recommendations for any other models?

http://www.onkyousa.com/Products/mod...class=Receiver
Return the Bose at all cost, and from the feed back you are getting, I think collectively we can find you a better product.
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post #7 of 59 Old 10-24-2014, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I will return it this weekend.

I am anxious to see what is out there as my last one was from 8 years ago and I know there are a ton more options and features available.
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post #8 of 59 Old 10-27-2014, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Return the Bose at all cost, and from the feed back you are getting, I think collectively we can find you a better product.
Ok, I have returned the Bose. What options between 400 and 600 for a receiver?
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post #9 of 59 Old 10-27-2014, 02:59 PM
 
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post #10 of 59 Old 10-27-2014, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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What is the difference between the 636 and the 838. Is it significant enough to go with a refurbished over a new one?
Any other brands that I should consider?
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post #11 of 59 Old 10-27-2014, 05:17 PM
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What speakers will you use now that you got rid of the Bose?

And what area are you located. We might be able to find some deals for you on Craigslist.

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post #12 of 59 Old 10-27-2014, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by theaandg View Post
What is the difference between the 636 and the 838. Is it significant enough to go with a refurbished over a new one?
Any other brands that I should consider?
Huge differences. The Onkyo 636 uses their proprietary room correction software - the 818 has the top of the line Audyssey Mult EQ XT32. The 818 also has more power - has preamp outs should you wish to add an external amp - and is more powerful than the 636 by a large degree. The only drawback with that 818 is it is a refurbished one and comes with only one year of warranty. Accessories4Less does offer extended warranties - I'd get one.

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post #13 of 59 Old 10-28-2014, 12:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theaandg View Post
What is the difference between the 636 and the 838. Is it significant enough to go with a refurbished over a new one?
Any other brands that I should consider?
That was an 818 I linked, don't know much about the 636/838. 818 is an older model but still has XT32 rather than AccuEQ which would be big for me, but if you want Atmos upgradability, HDMI 2.0 or some other newer features then maybe you'd preer the 636/838. The 818 may have hdmi/network chip issues but is covered under their extended program for these issues IIRC. Some risk, but refurb still comes with a warranty....but not knowing what features are interesting to you.....
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post #14 of 59 Old 10-28-2014, 02:46 AM
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You probably got $400 worth of sound, based on my experience with hearing Bose systems in the past. They were not awful, and you can do better, but it tends to cost more than $400.

A budget receiver is going to be $300 or more typically, a budget sub probably $300, and a pair of decent bookshelf speakers maybe $150 to $400 / pair. It's pushing $1000, but a patient person with some careful research and some luck could buy used on ebay and pick up something pretty good for less than my rough guesses.

I spec'd that out as stereo, because I would say, on a tight budget it might be better to have a solid stereo setup ( I still suggest a subwoofer,) than surround sound.

I slowly upgraded over time at one point, and that worked ok, but cost more in the end

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #15 of 59 Old 10-28-2014, 08:05 AM
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post #16 of 59 Old 10-28-2014, 10:15 AM
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Another thing to consider would be a refurb Marantz from A4L.

Onkyo gets great reviews but the constant reports of HDMI boards going out makes me a little nervous about purchasing one.

I purchased a refurb Marantz SR5008 from A4L about a year ago and only have a few complaints about it, most of which have to do with the fact that I didn't spend more money for a "higher end" unit - as follows:

- no HD radio tuner
- no phono preamp

other than that it's a nice unit with lots of features, and what tipped me to buying Marantz is my (highly unprofessional) opinion was that it had the best sound of all the receivers that I considered. Things that I *do* like:

- completely relabelable inputs (e.g. I can mark one as "phono" even though it doesn't have a phono stage and use my own preamp)
- upscales legacy composite inputs e.g. VCR to HDMI output so no need to change input on TV to use legacy sources
- internet radio and internet SiriusXM are great and I use them more than I think I would.

I too replaced a Pioneer VSX albeit one apparently slightly newer than yours, and am so far completely satisfied with the Marantz.
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post #17 of 59 Old 10-28-2014, 11:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by n8nagel View Post
Another thing to consider would be a refurb Marantz from A4L.

Onkyo gets great reviews but the constant reports of HDMI boards going out makes me a little nervous about purchasing one.

I purchased a refurb Marantz SR5008 from A4L about a year ago and only have a few complaints about it, most of which have to do with the fact that I didn't spend more money for a "higher end" unit - as follows:

- no HD radio tuner
- no phono preamp

other than that it's a nice unit with lots of features, and what tipped me to buying Marantz is my (highly unprofessional) opinion was that it had the best sound of all the receivers that I considered. Things that I *do* like:

- completely relabelable inputs (e.g. I can mark one as "phono" even though it doesn't have a phono stage and use my own preamp)
- upscales legacy composite inputs e.g. VCR to HDMI output so no need to change input on TV to use legacy sources
- internet radio and internet SiriusXM are great and I use them more than I think I would.

I too replaced a Pioneer VSX albeit one apparently slightly newer than yours, and am so far completely satisfied with the Marantz.
How did you compare the "sound" of the various makes/models of avrs?
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post #18 of 59 Old 10-28-2014, 11:38 AM
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^ Exactly! The differences in sound are so minor that they are insignificant. Look for the power and features you want, and then go from there.

With used speakers you can get a huge bang for your buck. Speakers in general are pretty robust and technology hasn't changed to any significant degree. Granted there are some radical boutique brands that have some crazy designs but I think I can safely say that they are outside of your budget.

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post #19 of 59 Old 10-28-2014, 11:46 AM
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How did you compare the "sound" of the various makes/models of avrs?
I can't comment on Onkyo as I have no experience, but listening back to back with Denon (and yes, I know that Marantz and Denon are the same company) the sound of the Marantz seemed much more "complete" with better bass extension etc.

I have absolutely no idea if this is "coloration" and the Denon is more accurate despite the Marantz sounding "better" or if the Marantz is really the more accurate receiver.
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post #20 of 59 Old 10-28-2014, 11:50 AM
 
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I can't comment on Onkyo as I have no experience, but listening back to back with Denon (and yes, I know that Marantz and Denon are the same company) the sound of the Marantz seemed much more "complete" with better bass extension etc.

I have absolutely no idea if this is "coloration" and the Denon is more accurate despite the Marantz sounding "better" or if the Marantz is really the more accurate receiver.
You compared them in direct/pure mode or are you comparing their dsp? Analog input or digital? This difference applies to all models under each brand? Did you compare them with your own speakers in your own room? Just curious...
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post #21 of 59 Old 10-28-2014, 11:53 AM
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You compared them in direct/pure mode or are you comparing their dsp? Analog input or digital? This difference applies to all models under each brand? Did you compare them with your own speakers in your own room? Just curious...
Listening to music in a store display (2.1), same speakers, DSP off. I only wish I had the ability to have people bring me receivers to try in my own home
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post #22 of 59 Old 10-28-2014, 12:25 PM
 
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Listening to music in a store display (2.1), same speakers, DSP off. I only wish I had the ability to have people bring me receivers to try in my own home
Still just curious here.....digital or analog input? You use an avr with the dsp off so that's why you compared them that way? Some retailers will allow you to try gear at home, but comparing avrs with matched level input from the same source can be rather involved....did the audio store level match for you?
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Still just curious here.....digital or analog input? You use an avr with the dsp off so that's why you compared them that way? Some retailers will allow you to try gear at home, but comparing avrs with matched level input from the same source can be rather involved....did the audio store level match for you?
I don't honestly know; source was a CD player and I didn't ask.

I primarily listen to music through my receiver but don't have room for a dedicated 2 channel system as well as a HT system, so my system has to pull double duty. Your priorities obviously may differ!
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post #24 of 59 Old 10-28-2014, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, I am sorry but I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I bought the Bose system hoping for great sound, and wasn't that impressed. I do a lot of streaming, movie playing and video game playing. I would love to be able to know what to look for and how to test but the terms that are being referred to are over my head.
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Just saying that the comparison you did may yield different results when done differently (like using level matching to make sure its an even playing field). I use my receiver for music and movies, and I adjust the sound to what I want it to be. I've had (and still have) dedicated 2-ch gear (separates, too) but its pretty much obsolete for combined use; I even use an old avr in the garage (just added surrounds so now that's a 5.1 setup ). I also have analog sources like a turntable as well as digital. Hard to compare all those uses standing in some retailers store with however they set it up....

Here's an interesting thread on a comparison between some top end processing units https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...ons-ssp-s.html
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post #26 of 59 Old 10-28-2014, 12:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by theaandg View Post
Wow, I am sorry but I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I bought the Bose system hoping for great sound, and wasn't that impressed. I do a lot of streaming, movie playing and video game playing. I would love to be able to know what to look for and how to test but the terms that are being referred to are over my head.
Sorry about the little diversion on your thread . One way to get started is start asking questions about the terms....lots of help around here!
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post #27 of 59 Old 10-28-2014, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Huge differences. The Onkyo 636 uses their proprietary room correction software - the 818 has the top of the line Audyssey Mult EQ XT32. The 818 also has more power - has preamp outs should you wish to add an external amp - and is more powerful than the 636 by a large degree. The only drawback with that 818 is it is a refurbished one and comes with only one year of warranty. Accessories4Less does offer extended warranties - I'd get one.
What does the first 2 sentences mean?. Sorry, but am quite a newbie to the Audio world.
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post #28 of 59 Old 10-28-2014, 03:16 PM
 
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Huge differences....well just what it says

Room correction software is a way for the avr to measure the speakers' response in your room and make adjustments to optimize the sound, some manufacturers have their own, some use others' systems. Onkyo up until recently used to use Audyssey's algorithm but apparently Onkyo felt they didn't need that expense any longer and has now gone to AccuEQ, their own (lesser) version (there's threads about the differences/experiences so far), apparently the additional processing to handle both the Audyssey and Atmos requirements is part of that expense. The MultEQ XT32 version was the best available version in avrs (aside from those avrs that can work with the Audyssey Pro kit, a significantly extra expense). http://www.audyssey.com/technologies/multeq

The 818 simply has more powerful internal amps and even has the option of adding your own power amp(s) separately with the use of the line level (as opposed to speaker level using the internal amps) pre-amplifier outputs (pre-outs).

That help?
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post #29 of 59 Old 10-28-2014, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Huge differences....well just what it says

Room correction software is a way for the avr to measure the speakers' response in your room and make adjustments to optimize the sound, some manufacturers have their own, some use others' systems. Onkyo up until recently used to use Audyssey's algorithm but apparently Onkyo felt they didn't need that expense any longer and has now gone to AccuEQ, their own (lesser) version (there's threads about the differences/experiences so far), apparently the additional processing to handle both the Audyssey and Atmos requirements is part of that expense. The MultEQ XT32 version was the best available version in avrs (aside from those avrs that can work with the Audyssey Pro kit, a significantly extra expense). http://www.audyssey.com/technologies/multeq

The 818 simply has more powerful internal amps and even has the option of adding your own power amp(s) separately with the use of the line level (as opposed to speaker level using the internal amps) pre-amplifier outputs (pre-outs).

That help?
Yes the first paragraph i completely understand.

The second one I am a bit sketchy on line level, and pre-outs

Thank you, by the way!!!!!
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post #30 of 59 Old 10-28-2014, 05:42 PM
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Yes the first paragraph i completely understand.

The second one I am a bit sketchy on line level, and pre-outs

Thank you, by the way!!!!!
Line level is connections made directly to the speakers from the AVR - line level power uses the AVR's internal amplifier. Preamp out jacks are used to plug in an external amplifier - useful if you need more power for your speakers. The NR-818 has plenty of power for most home theater use.

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