"The Official Denon 2018 Flagship AVR X8500H wishlist" - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 852 Old 03-26-2016, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
I would say get rid of Audyssey altogether and use dirac! Audyssey is very inconsistent and unreliable with my experience and many others as well. Dirac is the new and improved room correction software that is miles above audyssey.
Does Dirac have the ability to calibrate four independent subwoofers?

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post #122 of 852 Old 03-27-2016, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Lower level models (ie. X3300W and lower - April/May 2016)

Higher level models (ie: X4300W and X6300W - July/Aug 2016)

X7300W - July/Aug 2017
Is this still the latest word of a flagship replacement?
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post #123 of 852 Old 04-06-2016, 06:36 AM
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Soon...

B&H has a dead link to the new Denon X3300W:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...h_full_4k.html

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post #124 of 852 Old 04-06-2016, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
Is this still the latest word of a flagship replacement?
More likely fall of 2017.
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post #125 of 852 Old 04-11-2016, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
I would say get rid of Audyssey altogether and use dirac! Audyssey is very inconsistent and unreliable with my experience and many others as well. Dirac is the new and improved room correction software that is miles above audyssey.
I rather say: Get the upcoming (rumored) new version of Audyssey ready to run and include angle measurements.
We'll see, if Dirac then is really "miles" (?) above Audyssey and not the reverse ( if it ever has been)...
Anyway, my experience with Audyssey XT32 has been exceptionally, using several higher level models for some time, which employ this technology, in different locations.
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post #126 of 852 Old 06-09-2016, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
More likely fall of 2017.
When I started this thread 1 1/2 years ago I was truly hoping for a fall 2016 next generation flagship receiver, guess fall of 2017 is more reality....
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post #127 of 852 Old 06-09-2016, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
When I started this thread 1 1/2 years ago I was truly hoping for a fall 2016 next generation flagship receiver, guess fall of 2017 is more reality....
Yup. No real significant changes for 2016 to release a new flagship model successor.
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post #128 of 852 Old 06-09-2016, 12:28 PM
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hmm, so if I'm planning on buying an x4200w, wait until July, the price will inevitably drop...
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post #129 of 852 Old 06-27-2016, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by skinnydoggy View Post
hmm, so if I'm planning on buying an x4200w, wait until July, the price will inevitably drop...
I bought one from Fry's last week for $897 shipped. Sign up for their mailing list to get weekly coupon codes then set an alert at SlickDeals with the keyword Denon. Sale is over now but this is the second time it was discounted (with a code) in two months. BestBuy had the Pioneer SC-95's on sale not too long ago for $1000 but they appear to be sold out now...for good. Shame, I wanted to hear both at home after room calibration.
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post #130 of 852 Old 09-06-2016, 05:47 AM
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Some where over the rainbow

Wishing for 8k video capability on the 7300 in 2017. Why not get ahead of the game?

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post #131 of 852 Old 09-09-2016, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post
Does Dirac have the ability to calibrate four independent subwoofers?
Yes. Dirac algorithms can calibrate 10 separate subs if you put them on different channels.


Unlike Audyssey, Dirac would/could EQ each one separately.


The dual sub outputs on current Denons do not allow for individual EQ of those subs. Audyssey 'dual sub calibration' simply sets the delay and volume for each sub - but it EQ's them as one.
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post #132 of 852 Old 12-26-2016, 02:38 PM
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I hope the top line Denon in 2017 will have more channel of amplifier
I want 9.2.6
That is the only thing worthwhileto get better than where we are now
Let's hope that's where they go
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post #133 of 852 Old 12-26-2016, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by howard68 View Post
I hope the top line Denon in 2017 will have more channel of amplifier
I want 9.2.6
That is the only thing worthwhileto get better than where we are now
Let's hope that's where they go
Absolutely...major gap/opportunity between what's available today and the likes of Trinnov/Datasat! It appears Emotiva's RMC-1 Pre/Pro is illuminating the path for everyone! D+M will have had 3 years, this thread, and Emotiva for beacons! If one is not leading, one must be following.

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post #134 of 852 Old 12-30-2016, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
Absolutely...major gap/opportunity between what's available today and the likes of Trinnov/Datasat! It appears Emotiva's RMC-1 Pre/Pro is illuminating the path for everyone! D+M will have had 3 years, this thread, and Emotiva for beacons! If one is not leading, one must be following.
I look forward to seeing what gets reported ftom CES
I think Denon will have to add real 13.2 output to keep up now
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post #135 of 852 Old 12-30-2016, 04:55 AM
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Emotiva's roadmap isn't even a blip on the radar for Denon in my opinion. The company sizes and sales figures are tremendously different.
Furthermore, that processor is years out for Emotiva, and you should expect firmware bugs and shorted promises along the way -- that is if history serves.

If Denon is indeed listening. I agree, 9.4.6 is the way to go for a new flagship. I'll bite if that's available. With a separate subwoofer out with no EQ applied for tactile transducers, and the ability to switch one of these channel pairs to a dedicated stereo channel that can still use the EQ' main system subwoofers with your two channel. (They have it now on the x7200 where you can do 7.1.2 with a separate pair of speakers for two channel listening in the same room so when you click stereo it switches from your cinema speakers to your stereo speakers)
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post #136 of 852 Old 01-03-2017, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Emotiva's roadmap isn't even a blip on the radar for Denon in my opinion. The company sizes and sales figures are tremendously different.
Furthermore, that processor is years out for Emotiva, and you should expect firmware bugs and shorted promises along the way -- that is if history serves.

If Denon is indeed listening. I agree, 9.4.6 is the way to go for a new flagship. I'll bite if that's available. With a separate subwoofer out with no EQ applied for tactile transducers, and the ability to switch one of these channel pairs to a dedicated stereo channel that can still use the EQ' main system subwoofers with your two channel. (They have it now on the x7200 where you can do 7.1.2 with a separate pair of speakers for two channel listening in the same room so when you click stereo it switches from your cinema speakers to your stereo speakers)
9.4.6 agreed: I also will buy the 7300 if that occurs. I'm splitting the surround now on an amp. (4 surrounds not two wides), and splitting the subs. I don't know if I will eventually try auro-3d, and I have not researched that format yet, but I think it would be another split on the sub to hook up the voice of god speaker, so more than two sub outs would be very nice.

In addition a Bluetooth transmitter would be excellent.

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Last edited by Alanlee; 01-31-2017 at 03:34 AM.
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post #137 of 852 Old 02-28-2017, 11:21 AM
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Rookie Question

I am probably going to purchase the AVR which may be called 7300. I understand it is too early to be speculating with any degree of accuracy about what that device might be, but I do have a question about the 7200, which assumes that the 7300 will do everything that the 7200 will do.

On a new AVR what I would like to do is power the front and center speakers with an XPA 5 ( I have two center speakers ). I would power all the other speakers with the 7300. I would have a 9.4.4 setup ( 4 front surrounds and 2 rear surrounds ). The extra two front surrounds are located in the position previously called wide.

Referring to the 7200 now - it appears that I would not be able to configure an extra two surrounds because the assignable speakers are rear surround and height 1, so I think I would have to give up either rear surrounds or two height speakers.

I understand I could split the surround out and hook it to extra amps (which I have), but I prefer not to do that.

So square me away here; am I correct in assuming that I could not have two extra surrounds without extra amps?

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post #138 of 852 Old 02-28-2017, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Alanlee View Post
I am probably going to purchase the AVR which may be called 7300. I understand it is too early to be speculating with any degree of accuracy about what that device might be, but I do have a question about the 7200, which assumes that the 7300 will do everything that the 7200 will do.

On a new AVR what I would like to do is power the front and center speakers with an XPA 5 ( I have two center speakers ). I would power all the other speakers with the 7300. I would have a 9.4.4 setup ( 4 front surrounds and 2 rear surrounds ). The extra two front surrounds are located in the position previously called wide.

Referring to the 7200 now - it appears that I would not be able to configure an extra two surrounds because the assignable speakers are rear surround and height 1, so I think I would have to give up either rear surrounds or two height speakers.

I understand I could split the surround out and hook it to extra amps (which I have), but I prefer not to do that.

So square me away here; am I correct in assuming that I could not have two extra surrounds without extra amps?
If the FL/C/FR speakers are externally powered via the XPA-5, then you can use the "Custom" Amp Assign mode to reassign the on board FL/FR amps to another set of SL/SR speakers.
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post #139 of 852 Old 02-28-2017, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
If the FL/C/FR speakers are externally powered via the XPA-5, then you can use the "Custom" Amp Assign mode to reassign the on board FL/FR amps to another set of SL/SR speakers.
Ah-very nice-thanks

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post #140 of 852 Old 02-28-2017, 07:37 PM
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I know I am pushing this idea by a long shot but maybe Denon could incorporate the HDMI 2.1 specification on this upcoming flagship receiver. That would certainly make it future proof for certain.
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post #141 of 852 Old 02-28-2017, 09:58 PM
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I know I am pushing this idea by a long shot but maybe Denon could incorporate the HDMI 2.1 specification on this upcoming flagship receiver. That would certainly make it future proof for certain.
Considering product R&D lead times and that 2.1 wasn't even official until a month or so ago, I doubt we will see any products with it until next calendar year. And that's me being optimistic. Since the 7200's replacement was scheduled already for late this year, I don't think that will happen.

*Best* case, Denon offers an updated HDMI Board like they did with the 7200 after its launch.
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post #142 of 852 Old 03-09-2017, 10:11 PM
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I do not disagree with the take on 2.1 above. However this is going to be yet another year when folks spend big bucks on electronics gear that is obsolete before they buy. I followed on this website the process of updating HDMI boards. It was a trail of tears for some folks who had to be without their AVRs for long periods of time. Kudos to Denon for trying.

HDMI is a failed interface which creates much more problems than it solves. It sounds like 2.1 is going to cause yet another round of expensive cable buying, and probably disappointment for early adopters who will be used as guinea pigs to improve equipment that is released before the kinks are out.

The electronics industry should be working on an interface first of all that works, but also is much more easy to upgrade, and the new interface should be sans domination from the entertainment industry which is much more interested in protecting their property than serving consumers.

No matter what the entertainment mafia does to protect its product, evil people will find a way to make illegal copies. Meanwhile those of us who use their products legally, and by the way finance a major part of their paychecks, are forced to use an ill conceived interface that has not worked since its inception. HDMI is a bad idea that should be abandoned.

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Last edited by Alanlee; 03-10-2017 at 07:08 AM.
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post #143 of 852 Old 03-17-2017, 07:41 AM
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My thoughts about he succesor of the 7200WA (we don't know the name, so I will call it 7300H):

- I have no info about UHD Bluray discs getting atmos or dts:x beyond 7.4.1. If I knew 9.6.1 is coming soon I would seriously consider the 7300H. I am no proffesional in the field and since these are object based formats it is totally possible that they can already expand to 9.6.1 without the need of upmixers. I would aprreciate some info about this.

I will stay with 7.4.1 till the content natively suuport 9.6.1 layouts. The new upmixers are amazing, but not good enough to justify the new investment in my case.

The 7300H would be interesting for Auro3D or auromatic users if it allowed calibration and easy transition between the atmos/dtsx layouts and the Auro3D one without compromises. I mean not mandatory universal layout for all of them but the choice of having one for each format if necessary. We are talking about a flagship after all and there are true enthusiasts willing to spend.

- HDMI 2.1 is a big deal to me. If I am not mistaken it supports up to [email protected] 4:4:4 or [email protected] and all the HDR with metadata formats. It is a huuge leap forward and any new A/V equipment I purchase from now on must support it or be 100% upgradeable later on. I know it will be a while (1-2 years), but when the time comes I will spend big.

- I am also keeping an eye on mqa. It seems to be objectively the audio format with the highest fidelity, it is retro compatible with any old DAC (you get the highest fidelity your DAC is capable of) and the big names in the industry seem to be adopting it, specially the audiophile streaming services. It would be terrible for me that mqa became the new standard for HiFi music and my flagship AVR had no support for it. I could use the analog inputs with an external DAC but I would lose Audyssey which is a deal breaker for me.

- As a final note I worry that competition could be pushing to higher number of channels per AVR without a proper upgrade in the amp section for cost reasons. If so, I hope that Denon and the other big names will inform about the Watts RMS per channel and distortion with all channels driven. This is kind of wishful thinking but fortunatelly there are still some trusted reviewers that will test it.

I will bear in mind all of this upon the arrival of the 7300H.
Of course these are personal thoughts or opinions that could perfectly be wrong. If so feel free to correct me or disagree so I can learn

Edit: I agree with a lot of doable improvements pointed out in this thread that I don't mention. I have elaborated a little about the ones that matter the most to me.

Some of the already mentioned improvements I like:

- A powerful processor (64 bit) to isolate and analyze better every sound in a track. It could be huge for upmixing to a 3d field, specially for music.
- A way to tweak the upmixers to expand or reduce the field in lenght and/or height (I think auromatic already has something similar)
- Not sure if it can be done, but running audyssey for external DACs would be amazing.
- Faster way to run Audyseey without losing quality
..... and so much more. I could be dreaming like this the whole evening
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post #144 of 852 Old 03-17-2017, 01:59 PM
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HDMI 2.1 and I'm in assuming the rest of the seemingly easy to predict stuff is in there.
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post #145 of 852 Old 03-23-2017, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post
HDMI 2.1 and I'm in assuming the rest of the seemingly easy to predict stuff is in there.
My only safe bets would be HDMI 2.1, 13Channel, the Audyssey app and more processing power while keeping all the exclusive functions already present in the 7200WA (channel remapping and so..). I would really like to be surprised by unexpected and exciting new features
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post #146 of 852 Old 03-23-2017, 05:17 AM
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My only safe bets would be HDMI 2.1, 13Channel, the Audyssey app and more processing power while keeping all the exclusive functions already present in the 7200WA (channel remapping and so..). I would really like to be surprised by unexpected and exciting new features
I didn't realize channel remapping was exclusive to the top of the line Denon.

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post #147 of 852 Old 03-23-2017, 06:10 AM
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I didn't realize channel remapping was exclusive to the top of the line Denon.
Yup. AFAIK, it's the only model of any brand that can do it to the extent the "flagship" Denon models are able to do (ie. remap up to 3 amps to any other speaker to include Zone 2/3 and duplicating eg. Side surrounds for multi row seating).
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post #148 of 852 Old 03-23-2017, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post
I didn't realize channel remapping was exclusive to the top of the line Denon.
Yup. AFAIK, it's the only model of any brand that can do it to the extent the "flagship" Denon models are able to do (ie. remap up to 3 amps to any other speaker to include Zone 2/3 and duplicating eg. Side surrounds for multi row seating).
Interesting. Raises the question of why - assuming the amp channels are all the same - the jacks are labaled at all. Conceivably we should be able to connect our speakers to any old channel, and have the amp send out test signals and use the calibration mic to determine which speakers are mapped to which "channels".
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post #149 of 852 Old 03-23-2017, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Inolvidable View Post
My thoughts about he succesor of the 7200WA (we don't know the name, so I will call it 7300H):

- I have no info about UHD Bluray discs getting atmos or dts:x beyond 7.4.1. If I knew 9.6.1 is coming soon I would seriously consider the 7300H. I am no proffesional in the field and since these are object based formats it is totally possible that they can already expand to 9.6.1 without the need of upmixers. I would aprreciate some info about this.

I will stay with 7.4.1 till the content natively suuport 9.6.1 layouts. The new upmixers are amazing, but not good enough to justify the new investment in my case.

The 7300H would be interesting for Auro3D or auromatic users if it allowed calibration and easy transition between the atmos/dtsx layouts and the Auro3D one without compromises. I mean not mandatory universal layout for all of them but the choice of having one for each format if necessary. We are talking about a flagship after all and there are true enthusiasts willing to spend.

- HDMI 2.1 is a big deal to me. If I am not mistaken it supports up to [email protected] 4:4:4 or [email protected] and all the HDR with metadata formats. It is a huuge leap forward and any new A/V equipment I purchase from now on must support it or be 100% upgradeable later on. I know it will be a while (1-2 years), but when the time comes I will spend big.

- I am also keeping an eye on mqa. It seems to be objectively the audio format with the highest fidelity, it is retro compatible with any old DAC (you get the highest fidelity your DAC is capable of) and the big names in the industry seem to be adopting it, specially the audiophile streaming services. It would be terrible for me that mqa became the new standard for HiFi music and my flagship AVR had no support for it. I could use the analog inputs with an external DAC but I would lose Audyssey which is a deal breaker for me.

- As a final note I worry that competition could be pushing to higher number of channels per AVR without a proper upgrade in the amp section for cost reasons. If so, I hope that Denon and the other big names will inform about the Watts RMS per channel and distortion with all channels driven. This is kind of wishful thinking but fortunatelly there are still some trusted reviewers that will test it.

I will bear in mind all of this upon the arrival of the 7300H.
Of course these are personal thoughts or opinions that could perfectly be wrong. If so feel free to correct me or disagree so I can learn

Edit: I agree with a lot of doable improvements pointed out in this thread that I don't mention. I have elaborated a little about the ones that matter the most to me.

Some of the already mentioned improvements I like:

- A powerful processor (64 bit) to isolate and analyze better every sound in a track. It could be huge for upmixing to a 3d field, specially for music.
- A way to tweak the upmixers to expand or reduce the field in lenght and/or height (I think auromatic already has something similar)
- Not sure if it can be done, but running audyssey for external DACs would be amazing.
- Faster way to run Audyseey without losing quality
..... and so much more. I could be dreaming like this the whole evening
Dolby Atmos tracks for the home can go to at least 24.1.10 because it uses 3D objects. DTS: X for home use, despite the initial hype, is locked in place at 7.1.4 with no plans for expansion. Any objects will be used for separate language tracks.

Auro3D is pretty much dead.

So, regarding Atmos, you want mainstream AV companies to support higher than 7.1.4 rendering. It shouldn't be a feature of only luxury processors.
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post #150 of 852 Old 03-24-2017, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Dolby Atmos tracks for the home can go to at least 24.1.10 because it uses 3D objects. DTS: X for home use, despite the initial hype, is locked in place at 7.1.4 with no plans for expansion. Any objects will be used for separate language tracks.
Thanks for the info. That is great news!. Just to double check I got it right: It means that any Atmos track in the (home) market already support at least 24.1.10 natively because the 3D object tech is designed to take advantage of as many channels as the processor can render up to at least 24.1.10. Is that right?.

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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
So, regarding Atmos, you want mainstream AV companies to support higher than 7.1.4 rendering. It shouldn't be a feature of only luxury processors.
Absolutely.

Last edited by Inolvidable; 03-24-2017 at 08:50 AM.
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