Marantz SR5009 Owner's Thread - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 87 Old 12-04-2014, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Marantz SR5009 Owner's Thread

I just got it.

A quick background: I have a JVC receiver I bought 19 years ago - it's a first-generation Dolby Surround model that still uses analog connections for all inputs. I'm using a 3.1 setup. It has a 7-band EQ with 5 user-presets. I can program it to recall every setting on the entire device with one button. This includes volume, tone, source, speaker levels, decode mode and the EQ settings. For now I have a few music modes and a few home-theater modes programmed into it. I'm quite spoiled with the ability to quickly go from music to home-theater or back and have completely different settings for each.

So I decided to modernize and upgrade my audio system. I purchased Sonus faber Venere 3.0 fronts and a center. I already had a pretty good sub: Klipsch SW-310.

The next logical step for me was to get a modern receiver - that's where the Marantz SR5009 comes in.

I hooked it up this morning. It led me thru a "Setup" wizard. It has an Audyssey microphone and a cool cardboard stand to hold it. When it ran the Audyssey setup it kept stopping after it would beep my fronts and center and the screen said something about phase. My speakers are not out of phase. The only way I could get it to proceed is to click Ignore. It forced me to make 3 measurements. After that it let me select Done with those 3.

I went thru the rest of the setup and it finally got me to where I could listen to it.

I was amazed at just how flat the sound is. It sounds so 2-dimensional. The big deep sound field i'm used to hearing is not there.

Another thing that seems odd is that I have to turn the volume up to around 60 or 70 out of 100 just to hear it. That's normal conversation level sound. Every receiver i've ever owned before would be clipping by then. I'm used to 15 out of 100 being normal and 20 being dance club and 30 being rock concert loud. But whatever - it's not important as long as it functions how I need it to.

I went into the setup menu and it does not have the option to turn on the Audyssey system. It says I need to run the Audyssey setup. ???? I remember at the end of the setup it said I have Dynamic EQ off and MultEQ XT on.

The manual says if you "change speaker settings" you then have to rerun Audyssey setup. What do they mean by that? The Audyssey setup set my speakers as small and set the crossovers on the fronts at 40Hz and my center at 90Hz. I raised those to 60Hz and 100Hz. If that alone makes me have to rerun Audyssey setup - which will change it back to what Audyssey thinks it should be - then this Audyssey thing is effectively worthless crap. If I have to take what Audyssey comes up with like it or not just to use it then add that to my long list of modern technology i'm happy to pretend does not exist.

I guess i'll re-assemble the stand and rerun the Audyssey setup again and not change anything and see if I can get it to come on.

So far this thing seems like a royal pain in the neck.
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post #2 of 87 Old 12-04-2014, 01:57 PM
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When it ran the Audyssey setup it kept stopping after it would beep my fronts and center and the screen said something about phase. My speakers are not out of phase.
Are you certain?? I assume you checked the wiring from the AVR to the speakers, but did you open up the offending speaker to see if it is wired wrong internally? It happens.....

Quote:
It forced me to make 3 measurements. After that it let me select Done with those 3.
You should really do all 8 points. Quick tip: keep all 8 points tightly clustered around the MLP, like withing 3" of each other.

Quote:
I went into the setup menu and it does not have the option to turn on the Audyssey system.
This just can't be right. There has to be somewhere in the menu to turn Audyssey on/off. In the same place you should also be able to select Audyssey flat/movie. Have you consulted your owners manual?

Quote:
The manual says if you "change speaker settings" you then have to rerun Audyssey setup. What do they mean by that?
Actually, it says:

Do not change the speaker connection or subwoofer volume after Audyssey® Setup.
If these are changed, run Audyssey® Setup again in order to configure the optimum
equalizer settings.



You're doing things right - changing speakers to small and changing crossovers (however, you should set them all to 80hz and leave the center at 90hz). Try turning up the sub trim 3-6db from where Audyssey set it though, Audyssey is notorious about setting the sub level too low. You should also turn Dynamic EQ on, IMO it does wonders when listening below reference level (0MV).

Speaking of 0MV, you should change the volume scale to "relative" instead of "absolute", much easier to tell what level you are listening at that way.


Have you read the Audyssey 101 and FAQ?
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post #3 of 87 Old 12-04-2014, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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This just can't be right. There has to be somewhere in the menu to turn Audyssey on/off. In the same place you should also be able to select Audyssey flat/movie. Have you consulted your owners manual?
You're saying my unit is defective? Yes I looked at my User Manual before posting this thread. There is no way to turn on / off anything you just mentioned.

At first it kept saying my subwoofer is not connected. I had the volume at the recommended halfway point so I then turned it up to full volume. It then detected my sub. It set my levels at -12dB for the sub and at -10dB for the center. I find both those values to be highly suspicious.


Quote:
however, you should set them all to 80hz and leave the center at 90hz
I'm going to experiment with this setting. Do I have to rerun Audyssey everytime I change this setting? I've read the Audyssey 101 and 86 FAQs on this site and I see no such mention. I still have not found an explanation for why it's telling me to rerun Audyssey setup. I'll rerun it one more time but if it still tells me to rerun Audyssey i'm sending it back.
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post #4 of 87 Old 12-04-2014, 03:47 PM
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Do you know the lower limit for sub trim on your AVR? If it's -12db you're going to have to re-run Audyssey until you get the sub gain in-range. I think the Onkyo's go down to -15db though, so you may be fine.

You do not have to re-run Audyssey when you change crossover settings. The only time you have to re-run is when you make changes to the system - i.e. moving speakers, listening positions, changing speakers, etc.
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post #5 of 87 Old 12-04-2014, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the explanation. You're referring to page 185

I was referring to page 188 which says:

Manual Setup
Perform when setting the speakers manually or when changing settings
made in Audyssey® Setup.
  • If you change the speaker settings after performing Audyssey® Setup, you will no longer be able to select Audyssey MultEQ® XT, Audyssey Dynamic EQ® or Audyssey Dynamic Volume®. (v p. 158 – 159)
  • “Manual Setup” can be used without changing the settings. Please set if
    necessary.


So if I'm reading this right I cannot change the settings without needing to rerun setup BUT you can change the settings without needing to rerun setup. It's not very clear to me what can or cannot be changed.
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post #6 of 87 Old 12-04-2014, 04:02 PM
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Hmmm...that is exceedingly strange. It's not that way on my Denon.

Have you posted in the "Official" thread for your AVR? Might get some answers there.
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post #7 of 87 Old 12-04-2014, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you know the lower limit for sub trim on your AVR? If it's -12db you're going to have to re-run Audyssey until you get the sub gain in-range. I think the Onkyo's go down to -15db though, so you may be fine.
I have a Marantz SR5009 - and I think it is -12dB - I'm not really sure - so it probably is a good idea to run Audyssey setup again with the sub volume a little lower. Thanks - I hadn't thought about it that way.

Quote:
You do not have to re-run Audyssey when you change crossover settings. The only time you have to re-run is when you make changes to the system - i.e. moving speakers, listening positions, changing speakers, etc.
That's what I was thinking. It makes no sense to have to rerun Audyssey setup everytime I tweak something - only when I change something that would logically require a rerun - like moving / adding speakers etc. I'm just trying to explain the things I see happening in terms that do not involve this unit being defective if I possibly can.
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post #8 of 87 Old 12-04-2014, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Have you posted in the "Official" thread for your AVR? Might get some answers there.
I did not know there was an official Marantz SR5009 thread - if there is I cannot find it. Maybe we should start one?
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post #9 of 87 Old 12-04-2014, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2014 View Post
I did not know there was an official Marantz SR5009 thread - if there is I cannot find it. Maybe we should start one?
I don't think there is a thread for your model?
Here is the sr5008 thread
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-audio-gear/

And the thread for the sr7009
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...tz-sr7009.html

The differences do not appear to be major.

You have made quite a step up in your avr...from
Analog dolby surround to a full feature digital avr.
Be Patient...

I was surprised that all of your speakers came with
A phase error that's very unusual. I have an older
Marantz that would always report out of phase on left
Rear speaker. I double checked with a voltmeter
To make sure. If your speakers are out of phase that
Would be one reason why they sound so thin.

It doesn't appear to me that your unit is defective.
Steep learning curve.
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post #10 of 87 Old 12-04-2014, 06:02 PM
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Dave,

If you haven't already, please take the time to look through the Audyssey 101/FAQ here on the forum. It explains most of the things you're having problems with.

e.g. your sub probably is set on "Auto turn on". It needs to be set to "On" for the calibration. Your description suggests that it's not turning on quickly enough for Audyssey to hear it. A typical gain setting on a subwoofer used with Audyssey is with its "volume" control knob set to about 20 or 25% of max.

Make sure the first microphone measuring position is precisely at your main listening position. Sounds it hears at that position are what determine speaker distances and their volume trim levels, and they determine the soundstage you'll hear.

Phase errors are especially common if the speakers are very near a reflecting surface. E.g. if your speakers are on a shelf, make sure their fronts stick out beyond the edge of the shelf.

Most speakers need to be turned (and center speakers tilted) so they point toward the main listening position. High frequencies from most tweeters tend to "beam". When Audyssey's mic is not near the center of that beam, it can't hear the higher frequencies very well, so it turns them up and makes the sound seem "bright". This also is why you should make all of the measurements with the mic within about 2 ft of your main listening position. Don't try to make other seats sound good by placing the mic at them: you're the one who really cares about the accuracy of the sound. Even slightly worse sound sounds great to visitors.

I hope these comments help a little.

Selden

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Fronts=NHT 2.9+AC2, FH+TM=DefTech PM1000, LCR+TM amped
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post #11 of 87 Old 12-04-2014, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I read thru the Audyssey intro threads and the FAQ thread on this forum. It didn't tell me anything new but was valuable in that it reinforced that i'm not missing anything important or doing anything unusual.

I'll retry this Audyssey thing tomorrow when I can get away with the loud noises. I hope it can work with a lower sub volume.

I watched a little bit of TV on it. The soundtracks were all in stereo. I could not get the center channel to come on. My manual says the sound modes can be changed with the up and down arrows. Didn't happen. The movie, music game buttons did nothing. I went into speaker levels and it had the sub and my fronts in the list. No center. I thought this thing was supposed to have DTS Neo and Pro Logic II - even if the source material is stereo it should give me the option of manufacturing a center channel in music or cinema mode with either product. The algorithm finds common in-phase sounds in the front channels and adds them to the center channel. The cinema algorithms subtract the sounds added to the center channel from the front channels. The music algorithms do not. The degree of affect is controlled by the center width parameter setting. The movie algorithm for the center channel is the same algorithm used in my old Dolby Surround (Pro Logic) receiver. So far I see no evidence that any of this technology exists in this product. I've heard from a lot of people that most products nowadays have only a subset of the actual functionality claimed and only a percentage of what's actually present actually works and even those that do "work" only work under certain conditions. I find it hard to believe that anyone would sell a surround receiver that lacks Dolby and DTS decoding and that plays only stereo audio. It's probably there. There's got to be something really strange going on. I know it knows I have a center speaker. I remember Audyssey setting it to -10dB. I'll figure this out tomorrow.
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post #12 of 87 Old 12-04-2014, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2014 View Post
I read thru the Audyssey intro threads and the FAQ thread on this forum. It didn't tell me anything new but was valuable in that it reinforced that i'm not missing anything important or doing anything unusual.

I'll retry this Audyssey thing tomorrow when I can get away with the loud noises. I hope it can work with a lower sub volume.

I watched a little bit of TV on it. The soundtracks were all in stereo. I could not get the center channel to come on. My manual says the sound modes can be changed with the up and down arrows. Didn't happen. The movie, music game buttons did nothing. I went into speaker levels and it had the sub and my fronts in the list. No center. I thought this thing was supposed to have DTS Neo and Pro Logic II - even if the source material is stereo it should give me the option of manufacturing a center channel in music or cinema mode with either product.
Unfortunately, many TV and cable stations transmit a full 5.1 soundtrack, but provide sound only in the front left and right channels. Since they're already occupying all of the 5.1 speaker channels, upmixing can't do anything.

Check the settings in your Set-Top-Box. There might be something there to force stereo to use only two channels.

Selden

Marantz SR7009 avr + MM9000 amp --> Atmos 7.1.4
Fronts=NHT 2.9+AC2, FH+TM=DefTech PM1000, LCR+TM amped
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post #13 of 87 Old 12-05-2014, 06:42 AM
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Dave, I'm running a 3.1 set up (like you)
With a 6 year old Marantz sr5003. I have
No issues with getting DTS,Dolby Digital
Or the HD lossless codecs found on Blu ray.

I'm also able to get center channel to work
On 2 channel stereo content.(Pro-logic, Neo etc)

Please list your source components
(Cable box,dvd player etc) and how
You have them connected to the sr5009.

I'm sure we can get this sorted out and
Help you get your new AVR working to your
Satisfaction.
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post #14 of 87 Old 12-05-2014, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2014 View Post
I read thru the Audyssey intro threads and the FAQ thread on this forum. It didn't tell me anything new but was valuable in that it reinforced that i'm not missing anything important or doing anything unusual.

I'll retry this Audyssey thing tomorrow when I can get away with the loud noises. I hope it can work with a lower sub volume.

I watched a little bit of TV on it. The soundtracks were all in stereo. I could not get the center channel to come on. My manual says the sound modes can be changed with the up and down arrows. Didn't happen. The movie, music game buttons did nothing. I went into speaker levels and it had the sub and my fronts in the list. No center. I thought this thing was supposed to have DTS Neo and Pro Logic II - even if the source material is stereo it should give me the option of manufacturing a center channel in music or cinema mode with either product. The algorithm finds common in-phase sounds in the front channels and adds them to the center channel. The cinema algorithms subtract the sounds added to the center channel from the front channels. The music algorithms do not. The degree of affect is controlled by the center width parameter setting. The movie algorithm for the center channel is the same algorithm used in my old Dolby Surround (Pro Logic) receiver. So far I see no evidence that any of this technology exists in this product. I've heard from a lot of people that most products nowadays have only a subset of the actual functionality claimed and only a percentage of what's actually present actually works and even those that do "work" only work under certain conditions. I find it hard to believe that anyone would sell a surround receiver that lacks Dolby and DTS decoding and that plays only stereo audio. It's probably there. There's got to be something really strange going on. I know it knows I have a center speaker. I remember Audyssey setting it to -10dB. I'll figure this out tomorrow.
Press the INFO button on the SR5009 remote.
(1) If it shows 5.1 audio is being received, then there's nothing to simulate as far as the AVR is concerned. As Selden indicated, some stations will broadcast a stereo audio track over a 5.1 signal resulting in audio only from the FL/FR speakers and no center or surrounds.
(2) If if shows 2.0 audio is being received, then DD PLII can be used to simulate 5.1 audio to center, surrounds, and sub.
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post #15 of 87 Old 12-05-2014, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I re-ran the Audyssey setup this morning. I set my sub at 1/2 volume and ON not standby. Audyssey detected my sub this time (was likely in standby the 1st time). It set my fronts as large and center as small at 90Hz. The levels: sub +12dB, center -10dB. Again it sounded very very flat. This time Audyssey was ON - MultEQ XT - Reference. I changed it to Flat - sounded better but still very flat overall. Turned it OFF and the sound came alive. It sounded so much BETTER with that thing OFF. Huge difference!

This time it had lists of sound modes available whenever I hit the Movie, Music and Game buttons. I played around with them. I tried Pure mode. My only problem with that is you cannot get out of it. You have to turn the unit off to get out of Pure mode it no longer responds to the remote once it enters that mode.

So this time I noticed the EQ wasn't doing anything. I could turn it ON but it made no difference in the sound. I made really really strange settings on it just to make sure it was making zero difference. I realize the EQ will not work when Audyssey is on so I checked that and Audyssey was again greyed out and saying I have to run Audyssey setup to have this available. I figured out what's causing this: everytime I power the unit off - standby actually - you have to rerun Audyssey. So anyway - this Audyssey junk does nothing but make the unit sound like total cheap crap anyway no way i'm running setup everytime I use it for something that sounds awful anyway.

It actually sounded good when the Audyssey thing was off and the EQ was ON. It stayed that way for a few songs and then the EQ went off and refused to come back on. So for a few songs it sounded a lot like my old unit but without the warm rich bass. The sound was very detailed. I remember hearing what sounded like pops and cracks that were actually flaws in the recordings. My Sonus faber speakers are very revealing. They are NOT forgiving. They will reveal every flaw in your electronics or your sources without mercy. But I did start to feel some hope that this piece of equipment just might have some value if there were some way to correct its long list of issues.

So anyway - i'm not sure this unit is even worth the effort. But since I already have it i'll make a list of issues:

1) Audyssey setup has to be rerun every time the unit goes into standby. Does Audyssey have to be rerun every time I unplug the unit? I have not unplugged the unit since I first plugged it in i'm just wondering how much of a pain this Audyssey thing is going to be.

2) HDMI connections do not work. Only analog. Whenever I select any source with an HDMI connection I get a blank brown screen with Marantz written on it. Analog connections work just fine. I went into Input Setup and set Cbl/Sat to use HDMI 1 - all the rest of the settings on that line to "-" and then connected my TiVo into HDMI 1. I can connect that same HDMI cable into my TV and I get picture and sound just fine. I plug back into the unit and I get my brown Marantz screen. I go to stand by and back on. Changes nothing. Select other inputs and go back to that one - brown Marantz sceren. Same thing with my Sony BluRay player. Brown Marantz screen.

3) this time I ran Audyssey setup it set my sub at +12dB (the upper limit). It also set my fronts as large I suspect because it could not get an adequate response from my sub. I can turn the channel level for the sub all the way up to +12dB and still not hear anything coming from the sub. I think this is an anomaly related to my sub and has nothing to do with Audyssey. With my old receiver I have to manage the sub using the knobs on the back of it. I remember setting the volume on this sub: imagine the dial going from 0 to 10 with 5 being straight up - at 5 I could barely hear the sub at all - at 8 it is full blast with no audible change from there to the top at 10 - so effectively this sub volume in reality goes from 5 to 8. So next time I run Audyssey setup i'm going to set the sub at 6.5 - the level I was keeping it at when I had it on my old unit - and I'm quite certain it'll come into focus better.

4) the Smart Select buttons do not seem to do what Marantz told me they would do. My old unit has memory settings for each input that remembers everything for each input. I mean EVERYTHING. Volume, tone, is Pro Logic on or not and if on what's the mode, the center mode and level, all the Pro Logic settings, is the EQ on and if it is the level of each control. I was effectively able to have a "music" mode and a "home theater" mode that have completely different settings. I'm spoiled on this. I'm not giving that up for anything that cannot provide something close to that. I asked Crutchfield exactly what those Smart Select buttons remember - the User Manual lists 8 things - it also says this unit remembers all those things for each input source - which begs me to ask what good are the Smart Select buttons then? Crutchfield said they remember everything including bass management settings and EQ etc. Sounded to me like they were just saying sure it does whatever you want it to do buy it. Anything to get me to buy it. So I asked Marantz. Got the same answer. ok. So far it seems like the Smart Select buttons remember the source, the volume and the sound mode and that's it. So this feature may be working properly. This may be more of an aggravation than a bug - although it is an issue for me. I'm not going to go in and manually change the settings on this unit everytime I switch between music and home theater. I'd have to set it up for home theater and use it for just that and keep my old unit to use for music - so far the old unit sounds much better at everything but the difference is far more dramatic with music - i'd have to find a way to wire this stuff so I can do that.

I suspect there has to be a firmware update out there for this unit. That is likely the best first step because in its current state this unit is unusable.

5) Firmware Updates are not possible - it asked me to do a firmware update so I said yes go ahead. It sat there for 5 minutes or so and then failed saying Connection failure could not connect to server. My internet connection was fine. When I set it up it did the wireless network setup. I connected it to my iPhone and it said everything was fine. How did this unit know there was a Firmware Update available if it did not have a working internet connection? See my point? I tried twice. I'll try again later before giving up. There's very little about firmware updates in the User Manual which leads me to believe they made that process fully automatic and behind the scenes so users like me need not worry with technical procedures to achieve it. That's another thing that makes me feel good about this product. There actually are quite a few things on this unit that have a quality touch. It just seems that there are issues to be resolved and a few features that are far less than what I was led to expect (or just expected on my own). We'll see. This unit is new so i'm not surprised it needs a firmware upgrade i'm just surprised at how utterly useless it is without it. How could you ship something like this?
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post #16 of 87 Old 12-05-2014, 10:41 AM
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Either the sub or the 5009 is defective. Take your pick and replace accordingly.
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post #17 of 87 Old 12-05-2014, 10:42 AM
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There is something most certainly wrong with that receiver.

You could try a microprocessor reset, but if it was me I would just exchange it for another unit.
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post #18 of 87 Old 12-05-2014, 10:47 AM
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BTW, with Audyssey setting the sub to +12, you are now at the other extreme end of the scale (as you know).

When you do get your issues sorted out (with a new AVR or....), you want to run the first Audyssey mic position and "caclulate" until you get the sub trim in an acceptable range (I prefer -8db to -6db). If it's not acceptable, adjust the gain on the sub and re-run the first mic position until it is.

Then, run the full 8 point Audyssey calibration. Set all speakers to small with a crossover of 80hz*, and bump up the sub trim (in the AVR anywhere from 3-6db) to your taste.

*If Audyssey sets any of your speakers above 80hz, leave them alone.
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post #19 of 87 Old 12-05-2014, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2014 View Post
I re-ran the Audyssey setup this morning. I set my sub at 1/2 volume and ON not standby. Audyssey detected my sub this time (was likely in standby the 1st time). It set my fronts as large and center as small at 90Hz. The levels: sub +12dB, center -10dB.
a setting of +12 means that Audyssey has maxed-out the subwoofer's trim and it's still too quiet. You need to turn up the sub's gain before running Audyssey. Trim values closer to 0 are better.

Quote:
Again it sounded very very flat. This time Audyssey was ON - MultEQ XT - Reference. I changed it to Flat - sounded better but still very flat overall. Turned it OFF and the sound came alive. It sounded so much BETTER with that thing OFF. Huge difference!
Without the sub it'll certainly be deficient. I don't know if that's the only problem, though.

Please take the time to follow the instructions in the Audyssey 101 guide. It's been developed over a very long time to help produce the best sound when Audyssey is used.

Quote:

This time it had lists of sound modes available whenever I hit the Movie, Music and Game buttons. I played around with them. I tried Pure mode. My only problem with that is you cannot get out of it. You have to turn the unit off to get out of Pure mode it no longer responds to the remote once it enters that mode.
The front panel buttons should still work. If not, that's a bug in the firmware (or, less likely, hardware). Report it to Marantz. Only the display and the analog video circuits are supposed to be disabled.

Quote:
So this time I noticed the EQ wasn't doing anything. I could turn it ON but it made no difference in the sound. I made really really strange settings on it just to make sure it was making zero difference. I realize the EQ will not work when Audyssey is on so I checked that and Audyssey was again greyed out and saying I have to run Audyssey setup to have this available. I figured out what's causing this: everytime I power the unit off - standby actually - you have to rerun Audyssey. So anyway - this Audyssey junk does nothing but make the unit sound like total cheap crap anyway no way i'm running setup everytime I use it for something that sounds awful anyway.

It actually sounded good when the Audyssey thing was off and the EQ was ON. It stayed that way for a few songs and then the EQ went off and refused to come back on. So for a few songs it sounded a lot like my old unit but without the warm rich bass. The sound was very detailed. I remember hearing what sounded like pops and cracks that were actually flaws in the recordings. My Sonus faber speakers are very revealing. They are NOT forgiving. They will reveal every flaw in your electronics or your sources without mercy. But I did start to feel some hope that this piece of equipment just might have some value if there were some way to correct its long list of issues.

So anyway - i'm not sure this unit is even worth the effort. But since I already have it i'll make a list of issues:

1) Audyssey setup has to be rerun every time the unit goes into standby. Does Audyssey have to be rerun every time I unplug the unit? I have not unplugged the unit since I first plugged it in i'm just wondering how much of a pain this Audyssey thing is going to be.
Normally Audyssey only has to be run once. I dunno what you're doing that would cause it to act otherwise. The AVR is only supposed to require it to be run when you change the speaker configuration to add speakers. It should be re-enableable when you disable the EQ. I've never bothered to use the EQ, though.

Quote:
2) HDMI connections do not work. Only analog. Whenever I select any source with an HDMI connection I get a blank brown screen with Marantz written on it. Analog connections work just fine. I went into Input Setup and set Cbl/Sat to use HDMI 1 - all the rest of the settings on that line to "-" and then connected my TiVo into HDMI 1. I can connect that same HDMI cable into my TV and I get picture and sound just fine. I plug back into the unit and I get my brown Marantz screen. I go to stand by and back on. Changes nothing. Select other inputs and go back to that one - brown Marantz sceren. Same thing with my Sony BluRay player. Brown Marantz screen.
Cable and satellite set-top-boxes and DVRs are problematic. Many of them are not designed to be able to function when there's a repeater in the HDMI circuit (which is what the AVR is). The standard workaround in such situations is to hook the STB's video to the TV with HDMI and its audio to the AVR with S/PDIF (optical or coax).

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3) this time I ran Audyssey setup it set my sub at +12dB (the upper limit). It also set my fronts as large I suspect because it could not get an adequate response from my sub.
Large normally just means that the f3 detected by Audyssey was at a low enough frequency that the receiver's code (not Audyssey) didn't think that bass management was needed. It's wrong, of course. Manually change them to Small, once you've got the subwoofer situation fixed.

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I can turn the channel level for the sub all the way up to +12dB and still not hear anything coming from the sub. I think this is an anomaly related to my sub and has nothing to do with Audyssey. With my old receiver I have to manage the sub using the knobs on the back of it. I remember setting the volume on this sub: imagine the dial going from 0 to 10 with 5 being straight up - at 5 I could barely hear the sub at all - at 8 it is full blast with no audible change from there to the top at 10 - so effectively this sub volume in reality goes from 5 to 8. So next time I run Audyssey setup i'm going to set the sub at 6.5 - the level I was keeping it at when I had it on my old unit - and I'm quite certain it'll come into focus better.
Hopefully you're correct. The subwoofer's gain shouldn't be that crude, of course. You might want to consider contacting the manufacturer about getting it fixed.

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4) the Smart Select buttons do not seem to do what Marantz told me they would do. My old unit has memory settings for each input that remembers everything for each input. I mean EVERYTHING. Volume, tone, is Pro Logic on or not and if on what's the mode, the center mode and level, all the Pro Logic settings, is the EQ on and if it is the level of each control. I was effectively able to have a "music" mode and a "home theater" mode that have completely different settings. I'm spoiled on this. I'm not giving that up for anything that cannot provide something close to that. I asked Crutchfield exactly what those Smart Select buttons remember - the User Manual lists 8 things - it also says this unit remembers all those things for each input source - which begs me to ask what good are the Smart Select buttons then? Crutchfield said they remember everything including bass management settings and EQ etc. Sounded to me like they were just saying sure it does whatever you want it to do buy it. Anything to get me to buy it. So I asked Marantz. Got the same answer. ok. So far it seems like the Smart Select buttons remember the source, the volume and the sound mode and that's it. So this feature may be working properly. This may be more of an aggravation than a bug - although it is an issue for me. I'm not going to go in and manually change the settings on this unit everytime I switch between music and home theater. I'd have to set it up for home theater and use it for just that and keep my old unit to use for music - so far the old unit sounds much better at everything but the difference is far more dramatic with music - i'd have to find a way to wire this stuff so I can do that.
I'm not sure I understand your problem here, since I never use the Smart Select. Instead I use the Movie/Music/Game buttons to change the things that matter to me (the upmixing modes).

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I suspect there has to be a firmware update out there for this unit. That is likely the best first step because in its current state this unit is unusable.
I'm sure there is. I'm aware of 3 firmware updates having been published for the higher Marantz AVR models.

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5) Firmware Updates are not possible - it asked me to do a firmware update so I said yes go ahead. It sat there for 5 minutes or so and then failed saying Connection failure could not connect to server. My internet connection was fine. When I set it up it did the wireless network setup. I connected it to my iPhone and it said everything was fine. How did this unit know there was a Firmware Update available if it did not have a working internet connection? See my point? I tried twice. I'll try again later before giving up. There's very little about firmware updates in the User Manual which leads me to believe they made that process fully automatic and behind the scenes so users like me need not worry with technical procedures to achieve it. That's another thing that makes me feel good about this product. There actually are quite a few things on this unit that have a quality touch. It just seems that there are issues to be resolved and a few features that are far less than what I was led to expect (or just expected on my own). We'll see. This unit is new so i'm not surprised it needs a firmware upgrade i'm just surprised at how utterly useless it is without it. How could you ship something like this?

Wireless is always problematic. Some routers have inappropriate networking features/functions which interfere, too.

Denon & Marantz AVRs use the same digital electronics, including networking. Some suggestions for a better connection are provided at Connection failed. Check the device and Connecting to a home network

Similarly, they often have firmware updates to fix the same problems. A list of firmware updates for Denon AVRs is available at Firmware Update Information

I hope these comments help a little.

Selden

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post #20 of 87 Old 12-05-2014, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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As a workaround for the HDMI handshake issues:

1) TiVo - I can use component video and digital (optical or coaxial) for audio and not lose any resolution in picture: my cable service provides HD TV which is 720p - component video (red/green/blue RCA connectors) connections support 720p aka High-Definition video they do not support BluRay-quality video - 1080p. The truth is - they could - but they do not - because the content providers nudged the equipment makers into the direction of only sending 1080p BluRay-quality video over an HDMI (encrypted) connection which in theory prevents piracy. I laugh every time I say that too. Digital audio connections support Dolby Digital and DTS. They do not support Dolby True HD nor DTS HD Master Audio. Same thing as BluRay - only across an HDMI connection. Either way - my TiVo only outputs Dolby Digital 5.1 or lower (2.0 for stereo broadcasts). So I lose nothing by using analog connections instead of HDMI with this source.

2) Sony BluRay - I can connect straight to the TV using HDMI for picture and use a digital connection for audio. Maybe. Some units will not output a signal from digital out whenever an HDMI connection has been established. If this turns out to be true I have 2 other options: (1) I can use component video for video to the TV (which i'd send thru the AVR so I can keep the on-screen AVR menu) and digital audio - the downside is i'd lose some picture quality - i'd get 720p rather than 1080p. (2) I can use HDMI straight to the TV for video and use a stereo analog audio connection to the AVR. The downside to this is multiple - i'd lose the on-screen menu of the AVR (I could still get to it i'd just have to switch my TV to another channel that has input from the AVR) and i'd get a stereo downmix instead of digital sound. I can apply Surround Sound (Pro Logic) to the stereo downmix and get a descent center channel it would not be the fully discrete left/center/right sound field Dolby Digital is capable of providing. I know option 2 works because this is what i've been using for years now with my old receiver. But if this is where I end up what have I gained by buying a new AVR? I have a stereo downmix now. So i'd go for option 1. I'd be trading picture quality for sound quality. The latter is far more important to me.
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post #21 of 87 Old 12-05-2014, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2014 View Post
As a workaround for the HDMI handshake issues:

2) Sony BluRay - I can connect straight to the TV using HDMI for picture and use a digital connection for audio. Maybe. Some units will not output a signal from digital out whenever an HDMI connection has been established. If this turns out to be true I have 2 other options: (1) I can use component video for video to the TV (which i'd send thru the AVR so I can keep the on-screen AVR menu) and digital audio - the downside is i'd lose some picture quality - i'd get 720p rather than 1080p. (2) I can use HDMI straight to the TV for video and use a stereo analog audio connection to the AVR. The downside to this is multiple - i'd lose the on-screen menu of the AVR (I could still get to it i'd just have to switch my TV to another channel that has input from the AVR) and i'd get a stereo downmix instead of digital sound. I can apply Surround Sound (Pro Logic) to the stereo downmix and get a descent center channel it would not be the fully discrete left/center/right sound field Dolby Digital is capable of providing. I know option 2 works because this is what i've been using for years now with my old receiver. But if this is where I end up what have I gained by buying a new AVR? I have a stereo downmix now. So i'd go for option 1. I'd be trading picture quality for sound quality. The latter is far more important to me.
Make sure "Deep Color" is disabled in the BD player. That's a common source of problems and isn't actually used by anything other than a few high-end camcorders.

Also verify that your cables are Certified High Speed and that they're fully plugged in (press on them). Sometimes they look like they are in all the way but actually aren't.

As a test, you also might try configuring the BD player to output a fixed 1080i signal. That'll cut its bandwidth usage in half. If this helps, then that implies that the HDMI cables are deficient or defective (maybe damaged during the AVR replacement).

*Don't* unplug or insert HDMI cables while any of the equipment is powered up. The HDMI circuits are quite sensitive to electrical damage when cables are inserted not-quite-correctly.

If none of these suggestions help, I have to suspect at this point that there's a hardware problem with your AVR.

I have no problems watching BDs (@1080p) & DVDs or listening to CDs while using my Sony BDP-S590, which is connected by HDMI through my SR7009 (nor with my previous AV8003) to a cheap Vizio TV and a Mitsubishi DLP projector.

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post #22 of 87 Old 12-05-2014, 01:29 PM
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Deleting. My post made no sense.

Last edited by zgeneral; 12-05-2014 at 01:34 PM.
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post #23 of 87 Old 12-05-2014, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I checked my internet connection settings. The Setup Assistant that came up when I first turned it on never asked me for my WiFi password but seemed to still be working anyway (I thought was a flaw or an incorrect setting in my router). It told me it had a Firmware Update available so it seemed ok at first. Anyway - it was not connecting. I did a manual setup on the WiFi connection and got it connected.

I did the Firmware Update - took about 15 minutes. Worked on its own. Simple. I'll take all the simple I can get.

The HDMI connection to my Sony BluRay is working now. The HDMI connection to my TiVo still is not but I can implement an analog workaround with no consequences on that source so i'm marking that off as a so-what non-issue now. Of course being the old man that I am - changing that connection means - drum roll please - unplugging the Xmas tree and moving it to the other room - making room in the other room - moving 2 tables in there - unplugging and moving my sub and left speaker and then crawling on the floor flashlight in hand back there to pull and plug wires I can barely see while my wife holds the unit from the front so it doesn't slide out and fall into the floor. Laugh while you can young folks. Your day will come.

So now the big issue I have is that it keeps telling me that I have to perform an Audyssey setup. I went into Audyssey and did a restore on the settings it has saved. That still does not seem to be good enough. It still says I have to run Audyssey setup.

The only thing I changed since I last ran Audyssey setup is I changed my fronts to small with crossovers at 60Hz and set the LPF for the LFE signal channel to 80Hz.

What about changing amp assignment to bi-amp? Would that cause me to run Audyssey setup again? If that is what's doing it then i've discovered a logical flaw because everytime I run Audyssey setup it resets that back to Zone 2. I am not bi-amping my fronts yet but probably will. The threads on this site suggest that at least a few persons out there have a different view of bi-amping from some of us. The goal of bi-amping for me is not to send double the power to my fronts. Trust me when I tell you that you can accomplish that task far more easily by purchasing an amp that outputs twice the power (as opposed to ripping out your crossovers and buying a new amp with the same power you already have and buying an active crossover). In one sentence bi-amping prevents distortion generated by the motion of your woofers from affecting your mids/tweeters. But that's another thread.

So now what I want to do is perform an Audyssey setup and then watch a TV show or a BluRay movie and hear what Audyssey can actually do. I've never heard an Audyssey system do anything to improve the sound that I was hearing so I do not know what i'm supposed to get. The only thing I know to do is turn it on and off and see if anything sounds better with it on. I was hoping the Dynamic Volume would help keep the noise factor down in my home theater mode. If it doesn't do anything to make anything better then I guess I can stop caring about it asking me to run setup every time I turn it on or off.
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post #24 of 87 Old 12-06-2014, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I was sitting here thinking about this unit this morning. The only reason I bought the SR5009 was for the Smart Select feature. I could've bought an SR7008 for the same price. I only bought the new model because Marantz assured me the Smart Select feature would provide the level of sound customization i'm looking for in one button.

I'm trying to evaluate the Smart Select buttons. Every time I try to do this I hit a wall - I cannot change any Audyssey settings until I run Audyssey setup - again.

The Smart Select buttons may be causing my Audyssey problem. In fact - it most likely is. The 3 times i've tried to evaluate this unit I run Audyssey setup and then I go in and try to build my "music" settings - which involves Audyssey being off - and I program that into Smart Select 1. Then I try to build my "home theater" settings - which involves Audyssey being on - and cannot turn Audyssey on because I have to run Audyssey setup to turn it on.

The Smart Select button could be what's breaking Audyssey.
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post #25 of 87 Old 12-06-2014, 07:00 AM
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Like I wrote before, I've never played with the Smart settings: I haven't needed that level of customization. So I can't begin to help you there, at least not yet. Maybe someone else can.

Changing speaker configurations certainly is one of the things which will disable Audyssey and force a recalibration (e.g. from Zone 2 to bi-amp). Don't enable bi-amping until you actually have the connections in place and are ready to calibrate that configuration. The calibration procedure detects what speaker and amplifier channels actually are in use and changes its internal configuration to match.

Dynamic volume's purpose it to increase the minimum sound level you hear and decrease the maximum. It works in "real time" (hence the prefix "Dynamic") so sometimes it takes a noticeable (though short) amount of time to make a sound-level change. It's normally used to help when playing a loud soundtrack at night or when you otherwise don't want to disturb other people. If your listening environment has a high noise floor, I suppose it could help with that, too. If the noise floor is originating in the electronics, though, that's another matter entirely: the electronics needs to be replaced. If the noise is hum, that usually can be eliminated by other methods.

At least it's good to know you managed to fix the network problems!

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post #26 of 87 Old 12-06-2014, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I think i've just about hit a wall now.

When I took my room apart today to rewire everything it turns out my TiVo does NOT have a coaxial digital out - only optical. So I went on an adventure through the rain to Target and then to Best Buy in the Xmas madness to pay $50 for an optical cable.

When I finally got it all hooked up I can no longer get anything on my TV from the Marantz. I cannot pass video thru it at all - which means it has no on-screen display which means I effectively cannot use it. All I get on my TV is "No Signal" on any input I try. I've switched it to 3 different HDMI inputs on the TV and none of them work.

What aggravates me the most: last weekend my wife and I got into an argument over this - she asked me what I want for Xmas and I said a new receiver and she refused to get me one for Xmas - her side was that she predicted I would spend several weekends running around cursing trying to get it to work and finally in the end just sending it back because - in her words - "they make all this stuff so cheap nowadays none of it works and it's not going to sound as good as what you already have anyway."

She hasn't rubbed it in. She has given me one polite little "told you so" wink a few times. It just annoys me that she was right and I knew it all along.

Another big win for my wife is she wants to clean house today and we always play her music. She just received 3 new CDs and she dying to hear them. I cannot do that today. I have a brand new nice expensive receiver - what I insisted on buying - that does absolutely nothing. I took out my CD player to make room for the new receiver. So .... move Xmas tree ... unplug move subwoofer ... unplug move left speaker - remove new receiver ... put old CD player back ... play her CD.

As far as I know I have no choice but to send it back. The more I think about it why would anyone want a device that is useless without an HDMI connection working? This thing has a component video out that does not work either - never did - I tried that in the beginning.

So anyone else out there thinking about the Marantz SR5009 my advice is to avoid this model.
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post #27 of 87 Old 12-06-2014, 02:43 PM
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I'm very sorry you're having so many problems.

Unfortunately, component video out only works if you have component video in. Unlike previous AVR models, composite video is not upconverted to component, only to HDMI. Similarly, HDMI is not down-converted to either component or composite video. See the video conversion diagram on page 237 of the owner's manual.

Although it might be due to a failure in the AVR, your problem connecting to the TV might be the cable. Cables are the most common cause of signal connectivity problems.

At any rate, hopefully you're still within the 30-day return period.

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post #28 of 87 Old 12-06-2014, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't understand that diagram at all.

Right now I just want to get the on-screen menu for the Marantz unit visible on my TV. I cannot use the component / composite video inputs until I setup the inputs - which I cannot do until I get the on-screen menu on my TV.

I think that's a design flaw: that you must have an HDMI connection working to your TV just to get to the setup menu for the unit - as problematic as HDMI is why would anyone ever assume that you can get that to work?
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post #29 of 87 Old 12-06-2014, 05:48 PM
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Since you bought your Marantz from
Crutchfield I would suggest that you
Arrange for a return and possibly get
A replacement or even a different
Brand.

You have been very patient and I'm
Starting to think the Marantz is defective.

Crutchfield has outstanding customer service,
Time to use it.

My opinion.
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post #30 of 87 Old 12-06-2014, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2014 View Post
I don't understand that diagram at all.
The arrows show where the signals can go.
From composite in there's an arrow to composite out and to HDMI out, but none to component out.
From component in there's an arrow to component out and to HDMI out, but none to composite out.
From HDMI in there's an arrow to HDMI out, but none to the other two outputs.

Some old equipment also had S-Video inputs and allowed conversion from each signal type to all of the better types of outputs. They've cut production costs on modern equipment by eliminating all the "unnecessary" conversions.

Quote:
Right now I just want to get the on-screen menu for the Marantz unit visible on my TV. I cannot use the component / composite video inputs until I setup the inputs - which I cannot do until I get the on-screen menu on my TV.

I think that's a design flaw: that you must have an HDMI connection working to your TV just to get to the setup menu for the unit - as problematic as HDMI is why would anyone ever assume that you can get that to work?
Unfortunately, that's another place they've cut costs, by eliminating some of the output possibilities.

FWIW, I have a really cheap 1080p TV sitting next to my AVR that I use when I'm just configuring things.

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