Emotiva XPA-5 and Pioneer 1120-K - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 40 Old 12-11-2014, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zgeneral View Post
That's not my personal opinion. It's what's been proven time and time again over time. When I fly on an airplane tomorrow, I'm not doing so because my personal opinion is that it's safe, it's that someone did tests in terms of wings, flight tests, etc, that show it will fly.

There are rational people in this world and then the big johnson people. An amp that you don't need is the latter.
But what is your personal opinion is that sound quality is the only variable to purchases of audio equipment. And that is an incorrect opinion.
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post #32 of 40 Old 12-11-2014, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zgeneral View Post
That's not my personal opinion. It's what's been proven time and time again over time. When I fly on an airplane tomorrow, I'm not doing so because my personal opinion is that it's safe, it's that someone did tests in terms of wings, flight tests, etc, that show it will fly.

There are rational people in this world and then the big johnson people. An amp that you don't need is the latter.
It is kind of a silly analogy to compare reliability of a highly regulated critical system (airplane in this case) to that of a $1000 AVR....

We are talking about the reliability of a home audio system not a pacemaker...

Failure of an AVR doesn't kill anyone and warranties are only for 2 years with an acceptable failure percentage baked in.

As per your argument, things are built as good as they need to be built, In this case AVRs are built well enough to work for 2-3 years when they have proper ventilation (which the VAST majority of people don't provide).

I haven't seen many low cost media furniture pieces from the "Scandinavian modern style furniture" store that a lot of people use that meet AVR ventilation requirements...

-Rich

Quad Marantz AVR 9.2.(4+2) Atmos/DTS:X using Dual sr7010's + Dual scAtmos nr1403's
Marantz MM8003 150W/ch Amplifier Driving (L/C/R/SL/SR/SBL/SBR)
HTD Speakers L3 Tower L/R, L3 Center, Dual 12" L3 Subs, L2 Tower SL/SR, L2 Bkshlf SBL/SBR, Flat Panel WL/WR, Angled 6.5" In Ceiling FH/RH, 8" In Ceiling TM
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post #33 of 40 Old 12-11-2014, 08:04 PM
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I didn't make any statement about the reliability of airplanes. You might want to read my posts.

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Originally Posted by Spiky View Post
But what is your personal opinion is that sound quality is the only variable to purchases of audio equipment. And that is an incorrect opinion.
No, I've never made such a statement. Please keep the discussion to things at hand. You don't do anyone a favor by dreaming up things that people have said.
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post #34 of 40 Old 12-11-2014, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by zgeneral View Post
I didn't make any statement about the reliability of airplanes. You might want to read my posts.

No, I've never made such a statement. Please keep the discussion to things at hand. You don't do anyone a favor by dreaming up things that people have said.
Ok lets evaluate a direct quote of your statement:

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgeneral
When I fly on an airplane tomorrow, I'm not doing so because my personal opinion is that it's safe, it's that someone did tests in terms of wings, flight tests, etc, that show it will fly.
How is that not a statement about the reliability of airplanes? Reliability and safety are directly linked especially on an airplane. If the plane wasn't reliable it couldn't be safe. Through logical inference you said that you fly because the plane is reliable.

If we get technical individual parts of the plane could be unreliable if it is backed by redundancy but the overall airplane must still be reliable regardless of how it is achieved.

At any rate we have made our points and people can decide for themselves.

Quad Marantz AVR 9.2.(4+2) Atmos/DTS:X using Dual sr7010's + Dual scAtmos nr1403's
Marantz MM8003 150W/ch Amplifier Driving (L/C/R/SL/SR/SBL/SBR)
HTD Speakers L3 Tower L/R, L3 Center, Dual 12" L3 Subs, L2 Tower SL/SR, L2 Bkshlf SBL/SBR, Flat Panel WL/WR, Angled 6.5" In Ceiling FH/RH, 8" In Ceiling TM
Epson 5040UB Faux-K/3D with 106" Multi-Format Screen.

Last edited by rfb6435; 12-12-2014 at 10:38 AM.
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post #35 of 40 Old 12-12-2014, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zgeneral View Post
I didn't make any statement about the reliability of airplanes. You might want to read my posts.



No, I've never made such a statement. Please keep the discussion to things at hand. You don't do anyone a favor by dreaming up things that people have said.
You've attacked every comment that discussed other points, claiming people are wrong. Does that mean something else, then? Because "something else" is worse.

And, you might want to read post 29, again. You do, indeed, come out against everything but an EE version of what audio is "supposed to" sound like.
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Last edited by Spiky; 12-12-2014 at 09:10 AM.
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post #36 of 40 Old 12-12-2014, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfb6435 View Post
Ok lets evaluate a direct quote of your statement:



How is that not a statement about the reliability of airplanes? Reliability and safety are directly linked especially on an airplane. If the plane wasn't reliable it couldn't be safe. Through logical inference you said that you fly because the plane is reliable.

If we get technical individual parts of the plane could be unreliable if it is backed by redundancy but the overall airplane must still be reliable regardless of how it is achieved.

At any rate we have made our points and people can decide for themselves.
I made no statement about reliability. Your assertion was also that I made a comparison of the reliability of airplanes in relation to AVR's. My statement, which you quoted, does not include anything about reliability.

Bernoulli's principle really has nothing to do with reliability of an airplane.

Of course, it's all a moot point given that it has nothing to do with the overall point of the post from which you pulled that snippet.
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post #37 of 40 Old 12-12-2014, 01:21 PM
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Yeah, never trust those EE's, what do they know about sound? Don't tell the orchestra or band conductors I'm an EE, they'll never let me play again! One thinks I'm a professional musician, have to keep correcting that...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #38 of 40 Old 12-12-2014, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zgeneral View Post
I made no statement about reliability. Your assertion was also that I made a comparison of the reliability of airplanes in relation to AVR's. My statement, which you quoted, does not include anything about reliability.

Bernoulli's principle really has nothing to do with reliability of an airplane.

Of course, it's all a moot point given that it has nothing to do with the overall point of the post from which you pulled that snippet.
Safety requires reliability. You DID make a statement that compares planes to AVRs as related to them being designed to work properly.

If you can't stay logical in your statements and arguments then I really can't (or won't) take your points seriously. It is hard to listen to your ideas about engineering when you don't follow basic logic rules or don't recognize them (in this case the chain rule).

Bernoulli's principal says nothing about whether the specific plane is safe, it shows that a plane can be safe so again this is a logical error in your argument....

-Rich

Quad Marantz AVR 9.2.(4+2) Atmos/DTS:X using Dual sr7010's + Dual scAtmos nr1403's
Marantz MM8003 150W/ch Amplifier Driving (L/C/R/SL/SR/SBL/SBR)
HTD Speakers L3 Tower L/R, L3 Center, Dual 12" L3 Subs, L2 Tower SL/SR, L2 Bkshlf SBL/SBR, Flat Panel WL/WR, Angled 6.5" In Ceiling FH/RH, 8" In Ceiling TM
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post #39 of 40 Old 12-12-2014, 04:51 PM
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Safety? Where did I say anything about safety? I get the feeling that pretty soon you're going to be dreaming that my statement was a recipe for soup. I said nothing about safety nor reliability nor did I make any comparison with an AVR.

My statements are quite logical. You dreaming up words that I haven't said is not.

In terms of your final statement, I said nothing about safety, so you're wasting your time with whatever point you're trying to put forward.

You might also want to listen to the engineer who's post above backs up the main point of the argument, which you've lost by dreaming up things that haven't been said here, that people shouldn't worry about their electronics being hot provided that the ambient temperature is within designed limits.
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post #40 of 40 Old 12-12-2014, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zgeneral View Post
Safety? Where did I say anything about safety? I get the feeling that pretty soon you're going to be dreaming that my statement was a recipe for soup. I said nothing about safety nor reliability nor did I make any comparison with an AVR.

My statements are quite logical. You dreaming up words that I haven't said is not.

In terms of your final statement, I said nothing about safety, so you're wasting your time with whatever point you're trying to put forward.

You might also want to listen to the engineer who's post above backs up the main point of the argument, which you've lost by dreaming up things that haven't been said here, that people shouldn't worry about their electronics being hot provided that the ambient temperature is within designed limits.
Wow dude.... You deny that you mentioned flying and safety in the same sentence? I believe 2 people quoted it so it is stuck in the record now... I am going to stop with this thread as there is no hope.

As for your last statement on temperature.

Ambient temperature is the temperature of cabinet that the receiver is in, not the room temp (which I am sure you are aware but many aren't). Keeping ambient temperature down requires ventilation which is often unreasonably specified.

Here are the ventilation requirements for the 1120-k. They ask for more than 15 inches above the AVR, more than 7 inches on the sides . Do you believe that everyone meets that? If they don't then they can't really use the full feature set of the AVR as it is specified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VSX1120-K_OperatingInstructions1015.pdf

Operating Environment
Operating environment temperature and humidity:
+5 °C to +35 °C (+41 °F to +95 °F); less than 85 %RH
(cooling vents not blocked)
Do not install this unit in a poorly ventilated area, or in
locations exposed to high humidity or direct sunlight (or
strong artificial light)


VENTILATION CAUTION
When installing this unit, make sure to leave space
around the unit for ventilation to improve heat radiation
(at least 40 cm at top, 10 cm at rear, and 20 cm at each
side).
For quick reference:
40cm = ~15.75 inches
20cm = ~7.875 inches



I don't meet that on my equipment and know that a lot of people don't. In my case I add amplifiers and cooling fans to help. I also observe 115 degrees F on my HDMI board without a fan when the unit is doing no amplification. That in a small cabinet will easily surpass the 95 degree F max temp.

As for design specs and functions... My car says it will do 0-60mph in 6 seconds. Based on similar thinking to yours that means I could infer that it is okay to accelerate 0-60 right out of my garage every time I start out for work in the morning with the engine cold... I don't think the car would last long that way...

Should we all try the 0-60 cold engine test every morning for the next 6 months and call you if one of our engines fails?

We could probably get them covered under warranty but it still wouldn't be good for the rest of the car either. Then there are also those of us that would like to have the car last beyond its warranty period....

-Rich

Quad Marantz AVR 9.2.(4+2) Atmos/DTS:X using Dual sr7010's + Dual scAtmos nr1403's
Marantz MM8003 150W/ch Amplifier Driving (L/C/R/SL/SR/SBL/SBR)
HTD Speakers L3 Tower L/R, L3 Center, Dual 12" L3 Subs, L2 Tower SL/SR, L2 Bkshlf SBL/SBR, Flat Panel WL/WR, Angled 6.5" In Ceiling FH/RH, 8" In Ceiling TM
Epson 5040UB Faux-K/3D with 106" Multi-Format Screen.

Last edited by rfb6435; 12-12-2014 at 05:45 PM.
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