**miniDSP DDRC-88A Official Thread**8-channel AI/AO Dirac Live in a box - Page 275 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8221 of 16635 Old 11-16-2015, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultralight1 View Post
Just became aware of this the MiniDSP 88A tonight. Holy Schmoly - 276 pages!! Wow.

I apologize but hope it is OK to ask a basic question.

This is what I need:

1. From my DAC, I want to input the signal to the MiniDSP 88A via a pair of RCA input.
2. Get it to do room correction.
3. Get it to do some 'EQ' by accentuating certain mid band frequencies.
4. Output to four RCA outputs. Two pairs of left and right each.
AND:
a. One pair of RCA output (left and right channel) is high passed to the amplifier, say about 80 hz and up. This is to take low frequency off my full range drivers.
b. One pair of RCA output (left and right channel) is high passed to the two subwoofers - say about 25 hz and up. If it can both low/high pass at the same time, this would be even batter.

Can it do this? I can run the subwoofer full range if 4b is not possible, but it must receive the full range signal then. So basically two pairs of RCA output must have different frequency in high pass.

5. Control the volume via the miniDSP 88A. Basically the 88A will at like a preamp for volume control.

Can I do this with the 88A?

Again, thanks in advance for any help. I was also looking at the DSpeaker Anti-Mode Dual Core but it can't do what I need.

Thanks,
UL1
Nope, the 88A isn't what you are looking for. It sounds like you want something closer to the 2x4 or one of its bigger brothers...but those don't have volume controls, AFAIK.
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post #8222 of 16635 Old 11-16-2015, 05:47 AM
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So, I used some time this weekend to re-calibrate my system using the newly discussed method of letting the AVR figure out delays (distances) for channels that aren't being processed by the 88a.

In my particular case, I wanted to re-run the calibration anyway since I discovered that I had erroneously been running my subs with a lowpass filter in place in the inuke6k. Probably not an issue, but removing one more unnecessary crossover from the chain seems like a good idea.

I'm running 9.1 and using the 88a to correct my front heights instead of my rear surrounds, so getting the delays correct for the rears always involved some guess work.

A few interesting things happened.

1) My Denon x4000 very happily measured the distance of all of the speakers. About 23.3 feet for all dirac channels, and realistic distances for my rear surrounds. However, if I ever go back into the manual settings to check the distances, I now get an error saying that speaker distances are "invalid" and should be re-set. Hitting "back" again does get me out of that screen, without being forced to change the values.

2) Does anyone know how Audyssey (or other systems) figure out "phase"? I found it very interesting that I got an error for phase for *only* my two rear surround channels. The only ones that are not using the 88a. I would have expected it to detect a phase error with the 88a channels, and *not* the rear surround channels. (yes, I'm certain that phase is actually correct). As previously posted, telling Audyssey to "skip error" is a reasonable thing to do here, since you only care about the distances.

3) Nice(?) side effect of doing this is that the AVR *also* tries to correct levels for all of the channels. Some of us (myself included) have complained that the 88a doesn't target 75db reference, but the AVR does its best to achieve that.

In the end, I ended up not having time to tweak my dirac results as I normally do. I just hit "optimize", and then grabbed an REW sweep of L/R/C. It looks damn fine. As good as any of my previous tweaks looked. Not sure why, really. But then I listened. Fantastic. I may just leave it alone and not tweak...but, then again...I'm also tempted to upload it and see if Jerry/Markus might be able to improve it even further. (Thanks for all that you do guys!)

-Kevin

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post #8223 of 16635 Old 11-16-2015, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultralight1 View Post
Just became aware of this the MiniDSP 88A tonight. Holy Schmoly - 276 pages!! Wow.

I apologize but hope it is OK to ask a basic question.

This is what I need:

1. From my DAC, I want to input the signal to the MiniDSP 88A via a pair of RCA input.
2. Get it to do room correction.
3. Get it to do some 'EQ' by accentuating certain mid band frequencies.
4. Output to four RCA outputs. Two pairs of left and right each.
AND:
a. One pair of RCA output (left and right channel) is high passed to the amplifier, say about 80 hz and up. This is to take low frequency off my full range drivers.
b. One pair of RCA output (left and right channel) is high passed to the two subwoofers - say about 25 hz and up. If it can both low/high pass at the same time, this would be even batter.

Can it do this? I can run the subwoofer full range if 4b is not possible, but it must receive the full range signal then. So basically two pairs of RCA output must have different frequency in high pass.

5. Control the volume via the miniDSP 88A. Basically the 88A will at like a preamp for volume control.

Can I do this with the 88A?

Again, thanks in advance for any help. I was also looking at the DSpeaker Anti-Mode Dual Core but it can't do what I need.

Thanks,
UL1
I disagree with Kevin (no disrespect), but this may be possible. Rather than two signals from the DAC, use Y-cables to split the stereo into four signals into the 88A. Configure two of the four channels as sub channels so that the 88A equalizes the bass channels properly. Now you would have four separate outputs to route to your mains and subs. I haven't seen anyone do this, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. This also assumes that two channels on the 88A can be configured as sub channels.

Perhaps you will receive other comments on whether this approach might work.
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post #8224 of 16635 Old 11-16-2015, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I disagree with Kevin (no disrespect), but this may be possible. Rather than two signals from the DAC, use Y-cables to split the stereo into four signals into the 88A. Configure two of the four channels as sub channels so that the 88A equalizes the bass channels properly. Now you would have four separate outputs to route to your mains and subs. I haven't seen anyone do this, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. This also assumes that two channels on the 88A can be configured as sub channels.

Perhaps you will receive other comments on whether this approach might work.
No disrespect taken. I hadn't considered splitting the signal before the 88a. That probably would work... Use that with the "undocumented" highpass and lowpass and it probably gets pretty darn close to what the OP wants.

It does seem like an expensive solution though...but you do get great room correction thrown in.
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post #8225 of 16635 Old 11-16-2015, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
Thank you this is very helpful! I just took apart a mono price XLR cable and the ground is raped up with the shielding! Is that normal?

The positive is black and negative white.

Ground and shield are the same.


Color coding can be all over the map from supplier to supplier. What is important is to make the right connection. It's not really necessary to open the XLR body to check for color code. You can use a multimeter to check continuity of the pin and wire and it probably faster.


FYI mono price has a 1 meter XLR, 8 channel color coded "snake" that is terminated opposite end with a 1/4 TRS for a great price. Just cut off the TRS jack and connect to the Phoenix block.


http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=601296

Using the HOSA adaptor will work, but you will end up with the weight of 16 XLR connectors hanging from a 6" cable connected to the Phoenix block/ MiniDSP DDRC-88A.
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post #8226 of 16635 Old 11-16-2015, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I disagree with Kevin (no disrespect), but this may be possible. Rather than two signals from the DAC, use Y-cables to split the stereo into four signals into the 88A. Configure two of the four channels as sub channels so that the 88A equalizes the bass channels properly. Now you would have four separate outputs to route to your mains and subs. I haven't seen anyone do this, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. This also assumes that two channels on the 88A can be configured as sub channels.

Perhaps you will receive other comments on whether this approach might work.
Thanks AustinJerry,


So it would work fine? I did not know they made cables that can split one RCA into two RCA ouput. No problem doing that ?

Thanks.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
No disrespect taken. I hadn't considered splitting the signal before the 88a. That probably would work... Use that with the "undocumented" highpass and lowpass and it probably gets pretty darn close to what the OP wants.

It does seem like an expensive solution though...but you do get great room correction thrown in.
KevinG, I don't know what 'undocumented' highpass and lowpass is but I'm sure I can find out.... But with this approach instead of the 2x4, I do get:
1. Room Correction - which is the whole point of the DIRAC right?
2. Volume control so the 88a functions like a preamp also right and I don't need another preamp to control volume on the amp.

To both - am I understanding this correctly?

And how is the quality of the volume control - especially when I have it turned low?

Are there any dealers that gives a trial period in case this doesn't work for me?

Thanks again!
UL1
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post #8227 of 16635 Old 11-16-2015, 11:48 AM
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Apologies - one more question. I searched this thread and did not find a clear answer.

A nice gentleman too the initiative to contact me to sell me his Dspeaker Anti-mode Dual-Core. I'm still pretty new to room connection. There's a way to jury rig it so that it work. However, I also read that the 88a with Dirac is more sophisticated.

Question: Is there something the DSpeaker Anti-mode can do that the Dirac can't?

And vice versa, is there anything very significant (beside 8 input and 8 output) the MiniDSP Dirac can do that the Dspeaker can't?

Thanks in advance for any basic answer.
UL1
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post #8228 of 16635 Old 11-16-2015, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultralight1 View Post
Thanks AustinJerry,


So it would work fine? I did not know they made cables that can split one RCA into two RCA ouput. No problem doing that ?

Thanks.

KevinG, I don't know what 'undocumented' highpass and lowpass is but I'm sure I can find out.... But with this approach instead of the 2x4, I do get:
1. Room Correction - which is the whole point of the DIRAC right?
2. Volume control so the 88a functions like a preamp also right and I don't need another preamp to control volume on the amp.

To both - am I understanding this correctly?

And how is the quality of the volume control - especially when I have it turned low?

Are there any dealers that gives a trial period in case this doesn't work for me?

Thanks again!
UL1
Sure, for example, there's this:

http://www.amazon.com/RCA-AH201-Y-Ad.../dp/B00005T3G4

Sorry about confusing the issue about "undocumented" features. Probably safer to ignore that for the moment. In general, I think you are on the right track. It seems like it should all work.

Most of us leave the volume control all the way up and use our AVR for volume control. Maybe someone can chime in that is using the volume control on the 88a.

Minidsp doesn't have a trial period, and, worse than that, offers no return policy. You might want to try AVS themselves, as they are vendors. That being said, they seem to have very good resale value, and they are in demand...so it should cost you too much to try this out. (My guess it you will love it...)

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post #8229 of 16635 Old 11-16-2015, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ultralight1 View Post
Thanks AustinJerry,


So it would work fine? I did not know they made cables that can split one RCA into two RCA ouput. No problem doing that ?

Thanks.





KevinG, I don't know what 'undocumented' highpass and lowpass is but I'm sure I can find out.... But with this approach instead of the 2x4, I do get:
1. Room Correction - which is the whole point of the DIRAC right?
2. Volume control so the 88a functions like a preamp also right and I don't need another preamp to control volume on the amp.

To both - am I understanding this correctly?

And how is the quality of the volume control - especially when I have it turned low?

Are there any dealers that gives a trial period in case this doesn't work for me?

Thanks again!
UL1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultralight1 View Post
Apologies - one more question. I searched this thread and did not find a clear answer.

A nice gentleman too the initiative to contact me to sell me his Dspeaker Anti-mode Dual-Core. I'm still pretty new to room connection. There's a way to jury rig it so that it work. However, I also read that the 88a with Dirac is more sophisticated.

Question: Is there something the DSpeaker Anti-mode can do that the Dirac can't?

And vice versa, is there anything very significant (beside 8 input and 8 output) the MiniDSP Dirac can do that the Dspeaker can't?

Thanks in advance for any basic answer.
UL1
A "Y-cable" is pretty common, and splits an analog RCA signal into two signals.

The high and low pass parameters are found in the file when Dirac targets are exported. They are "undocumented" because the user manual does not have specific instructions on how to edit the target text files, but once you look at the file, it is pretty straight-forward. If you open the Dirac guide linked in my sig, you will see an example of the target text file.

Don't know what you mean by the "quality of the volume control". It is a volume control. Most of us who are using external pre-pro's leave the 88A volume control in its maximum setting.

I don't know return policies for vendors. MiniDSP has a no-return policy, so check around.

And as for the comparison between Dspeaker and the 88A, I have no guidance for you.
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post #8230 of 16635 Old 11-16-2015, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultralight1 View Post
Apologies - one more question. I searched this thread and did not find a clear answer.

A nice gentleman too the initiative to contact me to sell me his Dspeaker Anti-mode Dual-Core. I'm still pretty new to room connection. There's a way to jury rig it so that it work. However, I also read that the 88a with Dirac is more sophisticated.

Question: Is there something the DSpeaker Anti-mode can do that the Dirac can't?

And vice versa, is there anything very significant (beside 8 input and 8 output) the MiniDSP Dirac can do that the Dspeaker can't?

Thanks in advance for any basic answer.
UL1
The AntiMode is a good unit for correcting the bass frequencies. But Dirac Live is far more sophisticated in pretty much every respect. Of course, the 88A with DL is also much more expensive than the AntiMode, so you need to factor that in.

The main differences between the two are that DL is a mixed phase solution so it corrects in the frequency and time domains independently, DL can EQ all 8 channels of a system, DL offers full range correction as a choice if you want it, DL allows you to tailor the target curve to your own room, speakers and preferences and save and recall (at the press of a button) up to 4 different calibrations.
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post #8231 of 16635 Old 11-16-2015, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ultralight1 View Post

... And how is the quality of the volume control - especially when I have it turned low? ...

It's a very simple passive, three terminal variable resistor or voltage divider. While it can be used as a volume control, I believe the intention was to be more of a master set and forget gain control. Here's a picture of it from miniDSP's accessories/products page.
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post #8232 of 16635 Old 11-16-2015, 01:55 PM
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The AntiMode is a good unit for correcting the bass frequencies. But Dirac Live is far more sophisticated in pretty much every respect. Of course, the 88A with DL is also much more expensive than the AntiMode, so you need to factor that in.

The main differences between the two are that DL is a mixed phase solution so it corrects in the frequency and time domains independently, DL can EQ all 8 channels of a system, DL offers full range correction as a choice if you want it, DL allows you to tailor the target curve to your own room, speakers and preferences and save and recall (at the press of a button) up to 4 different calibrations.
The dual core antimode is $1,099. Just an FYI
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post #8233 of 16635 Old 11-16-2015, 03:23 PM
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The dual core antimode is $1,099. Just an FYI
It is? Wow. I thought it was much cheaper than that. In that case, the 88A and Dirac Live is a complete no-brainer IMO.
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post #8234 of 16635 Old 11-16-2015, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
2) Does anyone know how Audyssey (or other systems) figure out "phase"? I found it very interesting that I got an error for phase for *only* my two rear surround channels. The only ones that are not using the 88a. I would have expected it to detect a phase error with the 88a channels, and *not* the rear surround channels. (yes, I'm certain that phase is actually correct).

I'm also tempted to upload it [My DIRAC file] and see if Jerry/Markus might be able to improve it even further. (Thanks for all that you do guys!)
Any thoughts on my #2 issue above? Just curious.

And, also:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-G...ew?usp=sharing

Is a link to my Dirac project file. @AustinJerry @markus767 if either/both of you guys would have a look at this and suggest a target curve/cross over point, I'd appreciate it!

Thanks!
-Kevin
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post #8235 of 16635 Old 11-16-2015, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
Any thoughts on my #2 issue above? Just curious.

And, also:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-G...ew?usp=sharing

Is a link to my Dirac project file. @AustinJerry @markus767 if either/both of you guys would have a look at this and suggest a target curve/cross over point, I'd appreciate it!

Thanks!
-Kevin
No clue on the phase question. When I ran Audyssey with Dirac on, I received a phase error on all of my speakers.

I'll take a look at your project, but no commitment at this time.
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post #8236 of 16635 Old 11-17-2015, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
Any thoughts on my #2 issue above? Just curious.

And, also:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-G...ew?usp=sharing

Is a link to my Dirac project file. @AustinJerry @markus767 if either/both of you guys would have a look at this and suggest a target curve/cross over point, I'd appreciate it!

Thanks!
-Kevin
Don't have my 88A connected right now. So can't check you project.

Markus

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post #8237 of 16635 Old 11-17-2015, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I'll take a look at your project, but no commitment at this time.
Thanks!

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Don't have my 88A connected right now. So can't check you project.
Blasphemy! ;-)
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post #8238 of 16635 Old 11-17-2015, 05:42 AM
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I understand the input/output deal. I wasn't thinking about using the laptop as the source, but I guess that would work.
Ok, I followed your link which brought me to the Dirac online store. I clicked their link to get the free trial version and filled out the form. I recieved an email with instructions, I followed the link provided which brought me to the avangate website. I figured out their hoops and jumped through them. I can see on their site I have the free trial software...but NOWHERE do I find a link to download the software, I have the activation code, that was in the email.
Where is the download link?
I hope this helps,

my understanding is that the email that you received from Avangate contains the following instructions for activation and download:
Name: David xxxxx
Email:
[email protected]
Activation key: 30Ameer-Gx1y-LSwD-xxxx
Visit
http://portal.dirac.se and follow the instructions below to activate your license and download Dirac Live Room Correction Suite - Trial Version 1.1.

1. Click “Sign up” to create a new account or sign in to your account, previous customers can use their current username and password.

2. Click “Activate license”, enter the activation key above and click “Activate”.

3. Click “Software Download” to download Dirac Live Room Correction Suite - Trial Version 1.1.

4. After installation validate your license with the same credentials used in step 1.

In case of difficulties our support links are here:
http://www.dirac.com/contact/
They are indicated as "technical inquiries" and "general inquiries" so I agree that "support" could be clearer for some,

Flavio
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post #8239 of 16635 Old 11-17-2015, 06:13 AM
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Don't have my 88A connected right now. So can't check you project.
Care to elaborate, Markus? Are you evaluating something new? I hope Dirac Live has not fallen out of favor.
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post #8240 of 16635 Old 11-17-2015, 07:17 AM
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It is? Wow. I thought it was much cheaper than that. In that case, the 88A and Dirac Live is a complete no-brainer IMO.
You are both right. The single core anti-mode is in the $340-ish range. The dual core, which is much better and feature rich, is near a grand-ish. I tried both but returned them. Dual core was pretty amazing but there was no need once I decided to go Dirac.

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Care to elaborate, Markus? Are you evaluating something new? I hope Dirac Live has not fallen out of favor.
Looking for a fuse possibly? I kid...I kid
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post #8241 of 16635 Old 11-17-2015, 07:46 AM
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Care to elaborate, Markus? Are you evaluating something new? I hope Dirac Live has not fallen out of favor.
Currently exploring how cheap you can go in equipment while maintaining really good sound quality. Right now it it's more of a rant about Pioneer not being able to correctly advertise, explain and support one of their products:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...pabilites.html

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post #8242 of 16635 Old 11-17-2015, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
You are both right. The single core anti-mode is in the $340-ish range. The dual core, which is much better and feature rich, is near a grand-ish. I tried both but returned them. Dual core was pretty amazing but there was no need once I decided to go Dirac.
That explains it then. I must have been thinking of the single-core AntiMode. I confess to having no personal experience of AntiMode, but have heard good things about it. Not Dirac Live of course
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post #8243 of 16635 Old 11-17-2015, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Currently exploring how cheap you can go in equipment while maintaining really good sound quality. Right now it it's more of a rant about Pioneer not being able to correctly advertise, explain and support one of their products:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...pabilites.html
Now that is a great subject for a thread of its own IMO. So many people spend far too much, for little return because they equate price with quality. Would some please ask Markus to start a thread about it (he doesn't read my posts). Thanks.
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post #8244 of 16635 Old 11-17-2015, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by flax View Post
I hope this helps,

my understanding is that the email that you received from Avangate contains the following instructions for activation and download:
Name: David xxxxx
Email:
[email protected]
Activation key: 30Ameer-Gx1y-LSwD-xxxx
Visit
http://portal.dirac.se and follow the instructions below to activate your license and download Dirac Live Room Correction Suite - Trial Version 1.1.

1. Click “Sign up” to create a new account or sign in to your account, previous customers can use their current username and password.

2. Click “Activate license”, enter the activation key above and click “Activate”.

3. Click “Software Download” to download Dirac Live Room Correction Suite - Trial Version 1.1.

4. After installation validate your license with the same credentials used in step 1.

In case of difficulties our support links are here:
http://www.dirac.com/contact/
They are indicated as "technical inquiries" and "general inquiries" so I agree that "support" could be clearer for some,

Flavio
That was the email I received but there was no "Activate License" or "Software Download" links. I sent some screen shots to Dirac and they are looking into it.

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post #8245 of 16635 Old 11-17-2015, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
That was the email I received but there was no "Activate License" or "Software Download" links. I sent some screen shots to Dirac and they are looking into it.
I work for Dirac Research and that is the text that is sent but I now realize the misunderstanding...
you have to go to http://portal.dirac.se and there you will find the "Activate License" and "Software Download" links
(there are no links in the mail itself)

Flavio

Warning: My posts might be biased even if in good faith, I work for Dirac Research :-)

Last edited by flax; 11-17-2015 at 10:54 AM.
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post #8246 of 16635 Old 11-17-2015, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by flax View Post
I work for Dirac Research and that is the text that is sent but I now realize the misunderstanding...
you have to go to http://portal.dirac.se and there you will find the "Activate License" and "Software Download" links
(there are no links in the mail itself)

Flavio
I now see the issue, the link you just provided was not in the email I received...

Quote:
Hi Charles,
Thanks for your email!
Have you followed the instructions below? If Yes, what happens next? If you want you can provide us with some screen shots.
Best regards,
David

Visit https://shop.dirac.se/l.php?link=1df3a9afb3dd|15149974 and follow the instructions below to activate your license and download Dirac Live Room Correction Suite - Trial Version 1.1.

1. Click Sign up to create a new account or sign in to your account, previous customers can use their current username and password.

2. Click Activate license, enter the activation key above and click Activate.

3. Click Software Download to download Dirac Live Room Correction Suite - Trial Version 1.1.

4. After installation validate your license with the same credentials used in step 1.

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post #8247 of 16635 Old 11-17-2015, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Now that is a great subject for a thread of its own IMO. So many people spend far too much, for little return because they equate price with quality. Would some please ask Markus to start a thread about it (he doesn't read my posts). Thanks.
OH NO!! Don't tell me you have gone and upset someone Keith?
How could that happen???
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post #8248 of 16635 Old 11-18-2015, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
I now see the issue, the link you just provided was not in the email I received...
Yes, now I see the issue too... we apologize for the mistake :-(
Flavio

Warning: My posts might be biased even if in good faith, I work for Dirac Research :-)
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post #8249 of 16635 Old 11-18-2015, 04:30 AM
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post #8250 of 16635 Old 11-18-2015, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by flax View Post
Yes, now I see the issue too... we apologize for the mistake :-(
Flavio
No worries, I got the software last night and all is good...Thanks

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