**miniDSP DDRC-88A Official Thread**8-channel AI/AO Dirac Live in a box - Page 349 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10441 of 16926 Old 05-14-2016, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rak306 View Post
Thanks. I've ordered some 2A slow blow from Newark. In the mean time, I picked up a 2 amp fast blow from Home Depot. Now all is well. I would not be surprised if it blows as it is not slow blow, but at least I'm back up and working.

Rick
If you leave the 88A powered on all the time, like most of us do, the likelihood of a blown fuse goes down considerably.
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post #10442 of 16926 Old 05-14-2016, 11:51 AM
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I had to change my fuse a couple of weeks ago too, so maybe the recommendation should be to change it for a 2A directly when you get it instead of waiting for it to blow. Or are new units shipped with 2A?
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post #10443 of 16926 Old 05-14-2016, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
If you leave the 88A powered on all the time, like most of us do, the likelihood of a blown fuse goes down considerably.
It has been powered on all the time, with the preamp powered off most of the time (but the preamp is never really off, as it draws power even when "turned off"). So hard to tell what made it blow. Sure had me worried. But all is well that ends well.
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post #10444 of 16926 Old 05-14-2016, 12:10 PM
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Can anyone confirm the size of the 88A fuse to be 5X20mm (3/16" X 3/4")?
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post #10445 of 16926 Old 05-14-2016, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
Can anyone confirm the size of the 88A fuse to be 5X20mm (3/16" X 3/4")?
Like this, except get the 2A version:

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post #10446 of 16926 Old 05-14-2016, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
Can anyone confirm the size of the 88A fuse to be 5X20mm (3/16" X 3/4")?
yes 5mm x 20mm.
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post #10447 of 16926 Old 05-14-2016, 03:03 PM
 
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Taking the conversation from REW thread to here

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I have reviewed your Dirac project and have a suggestion on how to deal with the sound of the bass. In my experiments with custom curves, the shape of the curve can impact the result significantly. Here is your current Left/Right target:




Here is a modification, applying a slightly different shape to the curve. This shape is the one I currently use, and has resulted in an overall excellent bass response. Note that I kept your massive 10dB bass boost, even though I currently use a 6.5dB boost (which I found borderline excessive).




My recommendation is that you try the revised shape and see how it sounds. You will find that the shape has significant impact on the sound, especially in the frequency range 70-400Hz, which is the "ski jump " part of the target. Here is a link to the target text file for the left/right speaker pair. I assume by now you know how to work with the target text files. Make sure you apply the same shape adjustment to each of the speaker groups, including the sub. Let me know if you need any help.

Looking forward to your feedback.

I'll try it out Jerry but a few questions/concernts. First, since yesterday, I stared using 8dB for bass instead of 10 because I realized that it was more bass than actual sound and because of more bass, I had to keep dialog lower. I didn't like it and decided to drop 2dB. New curve I use is 8db But is following exactly the same slope. This means that I can change yours to adapt to 8dB. Hope I won't screw it up.

Your curve is very different than mine. I designed my curve thinking I'll get more Mid-Bass. Therefore, I had curve going up to 400Hz. In you case, you have it up to 300 (based on what I see in graph). Also, you used a lot of dots (don't know the right term). Is there any reason why?

I'll try it out and update my impression tonight.
Much appreciated jerry.

Update: Jerry, can you provide an 8dB curve please? I want to try yours before I make any changes. Thx.

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post #10448 of 16926 Old 05-14-2016, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

I'll try it out Jerry but a few questions/concernts. First, since yesterday, I stared using 8dB for bass instead of 10 because I realized that it was more bass than actual sound and because of more bass, I had to keep dialog lower. I didn't like it and decided to drop 2dB. New curve I use is 8db But is following exactly the same slope. This means that I can change yours to adapt to 8dB. Hope I won't screw it up.

Your curve is very different than mine. I designed my curve thinking I'll get more Mid-Bass. Therefore, I had curve going up to 400Hz. In you case, you have it up to 300 (based on what I see in graph). Also, you used a lot of dots (don't know the right term). Is there any reason why?

I'll try it out and update my impression tonight.
Much appreciated jerry.
Good questions. First of all, the number of break points has no bearing on anything. In my case, it made shaping the curve a little more precise.

My "ski-jump" extends from 70Hz-400Hz. the changes are steeper in the middle of the curve, and shallower at the ends, which makes it a little more difficult to see where it begins and ends. The important point is that the curve is centered exactly at 105dB, and is symmetric above and below that point. At some point (later), I will explain why. The shape of your original curve does IMO over-emphasize the mid-bass, which I have seen as resulting in a "tubby" sound. Of course, if you like tubby...

You are a lucky guy. I am attaching a link to a ready-made project file that already has the 8dB targets applied. All you need to do is download it and transfer it to the 88A.

8dB Bass Boost Project File

Here are the target text files.

And here is what the resulting L/R group looks like:




Looking for some feedback!
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post #10449 of 16926 Old 05-14-2016, 10:00 PM
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Not "feedback" per se but some interesting, and I think helpful, reading for those contemplating what their target curves might want to look like.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content...Tf65EKlPyIi.97

Personal preference always rules of course, but seeing what well done research is producing in this area can be helpful as a starting point.
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post #10450 of 16926 Old 05-14-2016, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Not "feedback" per se but some interesting, and I think helpful, reading for those contemplating what their target curves might want to look like.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content...Tf65EKlPyIi.97

Personal preference always rules of course, but seeing what well done research is producing in this area can be helpful as a starting point.
While I haven't had a chance to read your link yet, it seems to be based on the AES Convention Paper authored by Olive et al, linked here. Markus recently made me aware of Olive's work, and it is reflected in what I am currently doing with custom target curves.

Thanks for the link. I am looking forward to reading the article.
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post #10451 of 16926 Old 05-15-2016, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by 1201 View Post
has anyone measured a speaker after dirac correction from multiple listening positions?

i would like to see how much variation there is from seat to seat if anyone has this data.

thank you
The point to point variance stays the same. It has to.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
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post #10452 of 16926 Old 05-15-2016, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Good questions. First of all, the number of break points has no bearing on anything. In my case, it made shaping the curve a little more precise.

My "ski-jump" extends from 70Hz-400Hz. the changes are steeper in the middle of the curve, and shallower at the ends, which makes it a little more difficult to see where it begins and ends. The important point is that the curve is centered exactly at 105dB, and is symmetric above and below that point. At some point (later), I will explain why. The shape of your original curve does IMO over-emphasize the mid-bass, which I have seen as resulting in a "tubby" sound. Of course, if you like tubby...

You are a lucky guy. I am attaching a link to a ready-made project file that already has the 8dB targets applied. All you need to do is download it and transfer it to the 88A.

8dB Bass Boost Project File

Here are the target text files.

And here is what the resulting L/R group looks like:




Looking for some feedback!
Hi Jerry,

I want to try als your customer curves but I have a crossover of 100Hz and want to achieve a 4db bass boost. I tried to understand your curve and it seams that you have set a crossover at 120Hz?

If I take your text file from your guide and apply the 4db boost, does this values look correct?:

BREAKPOINTS
30 0
50 0
70 -0.4
100 -1.2
140 -2.4
200 -3.4
300 -3.9
400 -4
700 -4
16000 -4 HPSLOPEON 0 LPSLOPEON 0 HPCUTOFF 10 LPCUTOFF 20000 HPORDER
2
LPORDER
2 LOWLIMITHZ 17.9993 HIGHLIMITHZ 21000

Last edited by Shepardos; 05-15-2016 at 07:06 AM.
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post #10453 of 16926 Old 05-15-2016, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
The point to point variance stays the same. It has to.
some high science there

THANK YOU!!! for your selfless contribution to the audio world
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post #10454 of 16926 Old 05-15-2016, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1201 View Post
some high science there
you don't need "high science" to know that EQ is on the direct signal so the seat to seat variation will, by definition, remain the same.

A different Q is the extent to which dirac successfully accounts for seat to seat variation when creating filters. Is this what you're were really asking?
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post #10455 of 16926 Old 05-15-2016, 10:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Looking for some feedback!
First off, here is the FR of L/C and waterfall of C.

CO=100




Left FR doesn't look as good as C around crossover. This can be improved if I move LR about a ft back. C as of now is around 3 feet behind the AT screen and LR are around 1 FT. In case you are wondering why I have C so far behind, this is where it had best response specially around crossover region.
Please do let me know if having speaker 3 feet behind AT screen can cause issues. What's the point to get better FR is it will cause distortions. My thought process is that AT is supposed to be almost invisible to speaker and therefore shouldn't matter if its 6" closer to screen or 3' away.

So after applying your curve, I couldn't hear a big difference. Mid-Bass does seem a bit cleaner and bass on lower end sounds may be a bit cleaner. I can't say for sure yet. May be I need to do more testing and listening. I only had chance to listen a few songs and a movie that really didn't have any action going in it.
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post #10456 of 16926 Old 05-15-2016, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepardos View Post
Hi Jerry,

I want to try als your customer curves but I have a crossover of 100Hz and want to achieve a 4db bass boost. I tried to understand your curve and it seams that you have set a crossover at 120Hz?

If I take your text file from your guide and apply the 4db boost, does this values look correct?:
I recommend the values in the attached file for the Left/Right speaker pair. Make sure all speaker pairs have matched breakpoints.
Attached Files
File Type: txt LR.txt (356 Bytes, 26 views)
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post #10457 of 16926 Old 05-15-2016, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
The point to point variance stays the same. It has to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
you don't need "high science" to know that EQ is on the direct signal so the seat to seat variation will, by definition, remain the same.

A different Q is the extent to which dirac successfully accounts for seat to seat variation when creating filters. Is this what you're were really asking?

As usual, there is some confusion interpreting what you and Markus are saying.

I know for certain that it I took REW measurements at each of the nine points where the mic was placed during the Dirac calibration, the measurements would have significant variation. So what was the OP meaning when he asked about point-to-point variance? And what is the point of this discussion?

Last edited by AustinJerry; 05-15-2016 at 11:19 AM.
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post #10458 of 16926 Old 05-15-2016, 11:46 AM
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When you compare the magnitude response at different locations in the room, the "distance" between the curves at any frequency will be the same before and after EQ. One needs to add more sources or acoustic treatments to change that point to point variance.

Markus

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post #10459 of 16926 Old 05-15-2016, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I know for certain that it I took REW measurements at each of the nine points where the mic was placed during the Dirac calibration, the measurements would have significant variation. So what was the OP meaning when he asked about point-to-point variance? And what is the point of this discussion?
you'd have to ask the questioner what the point is but basically you are thinking about keeping the signal fixed and moving the mic, i.e. seat to seat variance, whereas we're commenting on keeping the mic fixed and varying the signal, i.e. with or without the filter applied, and then repeating the comparison for n mic positions. Since the filter operates on the direct signal then the amount of seat to seat variation will not vary whether the filter is on or off. Of course there will be seat to seat variation as you have said but the amount of variation will be the same in each set of measurements.
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post #10460 of 16926 Old 05-15-2016, 02:41 PM
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Before I get this sweet eq device, I have a quick question.
At moment for subs, I'm using the Antimode 8033 s2, and works amazing..
When I had audyssey xt32 in past, I actually found Antimode did better job..

So question, with Dirac, should I take Antimode put and sell it?
Does dirac sound same or better?

Just want to make sure before I sell it, as I said, audyssey was it as good in my room.. Was actually boomier

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
As usual, there is some confusion interpreting what you and Markus are saying.



I know for certain that it I took REW measurements at each of the nine points where the mic was placed during the Dirac calibration, the measurements would have significant variation. So what was the OP meaning when he asked about point-to-point variance? And what is the point of this discussion?


Thank your very much!!!

You mention that this curve should be used for the LR pair. For the sub, center and surrounds I will transfer the same values from you're attached file, or does I misunderstand something?
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post #10462 of 16926 Old 05-15-2016, 02:51 PM
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Is it possible to set all the distances and levels to 0 in the unit after its done it's thing.
The reason, I have atmos, and will get only one of these units for my main 7.1 channels.
And was hoping, to use my preamp to only measure final distances and levels all channels at once.
And use pre amp to eq only atmos speakers. I would 0 out eq for the main 7.1 channels in preamp as dirac will do that..


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post #10463 of 16926 Old 05-15-2016, 03:13 PM
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My Rotel amps have an input sensitivity of 1.5v, should I set out out voltage of this unit to 2v? Or use the default 0.9
Thanks..Jist don't want to hurt my amps or add hiss

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post #10464 of 16926 Old 05-15-2016, 06:20 PM
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Thumbs up

A brief report about my experience with the DDRC-88A...:

Go get one (or two)!

I am currently using a single DDRC-88A with my Denon AVR 4520ci. My speaker setup is 11.4.

I am using a minidsp 2x2 for my subs.

My room is 20x12x8 feet. Two rows of seats, first row 3 seats, second row 2 seats on a riser.

I currently only have one external amp and I am using it to power my FR, CC and FL. Therefore, only those 3 channels plus subs go through the 88A. I use RCA unbalanced cables. My other 7 channels use my AVRs amps and now play unequalized.

I must say, I am extremely happy with the sound I get running the above setup with Dirac Live. The center channel sounds clearer, the sound stage seems wider, more detailed. So far I did two calibrations: one for the MLP and one for the front row (3 seats). I am VERY happy with the result I get for the front row. Now, my 3 front seats sound good (to me, since nobody else ever noticed the difference...)

The bass was already great and still is.

Next step: buy an additional 5 of 7 channels amp, so that I can use the 88A full power. I will need this additional amp anyways, since I am expecting to upgrade my system to a total of 15 or 17 channels (plus subs) when when an (affordable) AVR allows me to do so.

Downsides: lack of ip control. Impossible to make a backup of the created filters. Impossible to see levels and distances set by DL.

Major upgrade for me vs XT32 which never sounded correct to me. Custom curves: Great! Fixed audyssey curve: bad...

A worthy upgrade!

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post #10465 of 16926 Old 05-15-2016, 07:00 PM
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Nice report, Stef. I dodn't share your concern about not being able to back up the filters, though. As long as you save your projects, re-loading the filters couldn't be easier.
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post #10466 of 16926 Old 05-15-2016, 07:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Looking for some feedback!
Before I uploaded your curve reading, I decided to make a small change. I knew that if I move LR a bit farther away from screen (closer to front wall), it gets better result. So I did that. Plus I also had applied som LinAcoustics around specifically behind Surrounds and back wall. I still don't have any treatment right behind the MLP because that's where the door is. I'll do it later because I'll have to make a poster using acoustically transparent cloth to cover the panel to avoid WAF.

After running 9 points to cover all three seats, I got much better results in terms of FR and also Waterfall. I'll provide link to mdb and dirac at the end of post. Here is the waterfall of C+B. Please note that this is a 300ms and not 450ms. I followed Jerry guide to keep the difference of 40dB from top reading to lower.


Now that we know how the room is acting in terms of bass, let's discuss how well Jerry's curve sounds. If I need to explain it in one word, i'd say WOOOOOWWWWWW. I spent some good time listening to the contents I'm very familiar with. Contents including
1 - Ring my bells song (HD version)
2 - Maze Runner
3 - Transformer 3.

I"ll discuss the difference of bass and then other aspects. I had always been chasing the bass that hits in chest. Read Hard Knee curve article and kept on following it. Therefore, my curve looked like a big steep from 50 to 100. Jerry's curve is much more different from it. After I used his curve, there it is. I got very very clean and heart hitting bass. I won't say that its so heart hitting that it makes your heart beating very fast but I do feet the hit in my heart. To get the full heart hitting impact, I think its important to have one sub NF (near field). Then the game is on. Regardless, bass sounds very very good. I like it very much.

Now the center channel. Oh I just love what Dirac does to center channel. I don't for a second feel like there is a speaker behind the screen. It feels just like someone is talking right in front of me. After closing the room and been able to add some acoustical treatment on back wall and surround area, I can hear much clear sound. Dialogs are so clear that I have absolutely no problem understanding every word. I also don't hear any distortion at all. I was a bit concerned about mid-bass with Jerry curve but after listening, no concerns at all. Very good (or should I say Jerry good) mid bass :-).

Surround Sound. Wooowww. Having closed room and Surround Back speakers and surround all around me made a huge difference. What a big difference having a close room made. Such an amazing engaging experience. I also have 4 ceiling speakers and they are properly aligned (equal distance). All are 4 feet apart from MLP. I get completely surrounded with sound effects.

Finally, even though this is a sound related thread, I'll share some of my experience related to display. I'm still working on room and I plan to have everything covered with Black Velvet in between MLP and Screen. For now, I only have my panels b/w MLP and screen, below screen and above screen covered. All walls are already painted black and therefore most of the room already kinda disappears but after I cover side walls and ceiling and floor covered with Black Velvet, everything will completely disappear besides the screen. So I have 130" 2.40 AT screen combined with JVC RS500 and projector mounted to minimum distance to get good brightness while sitting 10.5' away from screen. The experience is very immersive indeed. Very 3D like experience. Screen center point is only 5-6" higher than the eye level once seated and this gives very good immersive experience and makes you feel like you are almost in it. Hard to explain with words.

If any of you are in NJ, feel free to contact me if you'd like to have a demo. Even though I still need to do a lot of work, I feel confident enough to demo it to others for the first time in my HT journey (around 3 years).

A very special thanks to Jerry for providing the curve adn all other guidance. Markus also helped me out a lot understand and working with bass/speakers around cross-over.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a4iqs4zozx...ings.mdat?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0fv3uzbg26...BNew.dprj?dl=0
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Last edited by SherazNJ; 05-15-2016 at 08:43 PM.
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post #10467 of 16926 Old 05-15-2016, 07:50 PM
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Thank you for the kind words. I agree WRT the magic Dirac does with the center channel audio--I reported this very early on. Glad you seem to be closer to your happy place, so are you going to sit back and enjoy your setup for a while?
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post #10468 of 16926 Old 05-15-2016, 08:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Thank you for the kind words. I agree WRT the magic Dirac does with the center channel audio--I reported this very early on. Glad you seem to be closer to your happy place, so are you going to sit back and enjoy your setup for a while?
The more I listen, the more I realize how amazing the bass is. I have used "Transformer the dark moon" countless number of times (like 100+) to test my system for bass because I think it really brings it all. This movie is loaded with great bass scenes. But never was I satisfied this much. Really. There were scenes where I thought/felt that I think the bass should sound different here. But this time and for the first time, it was a complete satisfaction. Every scene was a wow moment. Kudos to you Jerry.

Now will I sit back and enjoy. I terms of sound reproduction, I'm very satisfied. But there are some issues. The recessedd lights were making too much noise with bass. I relaced them with a new design and now its much better. But I have two curtain rods that are rattling at certain low frequencies. I have to take that out. Besides that, not much in terms of sound but I'll have to cover all side walls with black fabric. I think there is around a few weeks of work left and then I can sit back and enjoy. But, you and I and all here know that this will never happen. This is our hobby and we are always looking for something exciting to get our hands dirty with and only sitting back and enjoying is just not possible. Well may be for a short time period but then something will itch and here we go again :-)

BTW, did you notice the improvement in Waterfall and FR as well? I put 300ms to show that I don't see the ringing anywhere even with 300ms unless I'm misreading waterfall?
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post #10469 of 16926 Old 05-16-2016, 09:22 AM
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A very special thanks to Jerry for providing the curve adn all other guidance. Markus also helped me out a lot understand and working with bass/speakers around cross-over.
Great review and a +100 for Jerry and Markus's contribution to the community.
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post #10470 of 16926 Old 05-16-2016, 09:23 AM
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Now is time to unleash the 88A full power...this means, I need to buy another external amp in order to use DL on 8 channels. Has anybody tried the new Monolith 7x200 amp? It looks interesting since emotiva has increased the price of their amps recently...
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