**miniDSP DDRC-88A Official Thread**8-channel AI/AO Dirac Live in a box - Page 353 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10561 of 16911 Old 05-28-2016, 08:02 AM
 
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Can someone please explain what these impulse correction in Dirac mean? Attaching Sub and then Center Impulse Response

Sub Impulse Dirac Correction



Center Impulse Dirac Correction

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post #10562 of 16911 Old 05-28-2016, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post
One thing I don't quite understand: what was the difference in my adjusting the Genelecs before or after the Dirac calibration. I have both set as presets and they sound exactly the same. Just wondering.

Thanks,

Tony
The reason is simply precision. I'm not sure how Dirac determines channel levels, but I know it's not with pink noise , and that's the only way you could do it without recalibrating. I think Dirac will set your channel levels more accurately than you could. Other than that, it really doesn't matter when gains are adjusted down.
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post #10563 of 16911 Old 05-28-2016, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by vinodk View Post
Can 88A be placed between BD player & receiver using MCH analog in/out? In that case do I set the levels/delays to 0 in the BD player & just set crossover in the player? Wondering if anybody is using 88A in this kind of setup. Thanks.
I'm guessing you've considered the Nano with DL??? It's over hdmi tho.
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post #10564 of 16911 Old 05-28-2016, 11:03 AM
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At long last, having owned the 88A unit for the last month, I managed to find the time and an excuse to have the house all to myself to enjoy the new setup. As soon as I finished helping my wife and 2 small kids pack for a sleepover at the in-laws, I grabbed my buddy @Dbuudo07 to join me in a serious listening session with the 88a unit. I've been a long time Audyssey (xt to xt32) user in my mildly treated large room. With many subs, I've never had an issue with my frequency response as I've always managed +/-3db from 13hz-120hz by setting delays only. My current speakers are from DIYSoundGroup, the Fusion-15T (build thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post40768482) along with custom Radian coaxial side and rear surrounds. Outside of the schroeder frequency, my response with my LCR's are also within +/-3db before any eq/room correction.

We started off with the usual high-res music files through my oppo, songs like Voodoo Child, Money For Nothing, Hotel California, Against All Odds, Queen, etc. Typical volumes within the 2.1 setup ranged from +3MV to +10MV with subs +6db hot and xo'd at 80hz. What I noticed immediately was how much more focused the sound was, just superb imaging! The vocals were just smooth and incredibly balanced. When toggling between Dirac and XT32, the most immediate difference was the well controlled sibilance. I never thought I'd be able to listen to the same materials at the ridiculous volumes we were exposed to last night without my hands covering my ears. Dirac was just pure magic in this aspect -- both of my FR Dirac vs XT32 are within +/-2db of each other.

Aftter the crazy music session, we popped in the Deadpool Bluray, employed my movie setting (6db house curve + 6db bass hot overall) and watched the entire movie at reference volumes. Man, it was just so pleasing and very easy to listen to. The intelligibility and realism was just WOW! I've listened to a lot of systems and my buddy Dave, a movie critic has been to many screening rooms and top notch theatres. Both of us kept looking at each other and giving high-fives the entire time. The one thing I've also noticed was how the off-axis response was MUCH better. I moved seat to seat during the movie, and adjusted my seat height. The imaging just really locked you in there, while providing a more expansive sound (especially in the vertical plane) -- it sounded as if I had heights. And the bass... holy! Like I mentioned, my bass response by default, pre-anything is awesome. With Dirac, it takes it to the next 2 levels. For one, I no longer have to adjust my delays to correct the crossover section like what I've done with Audyssey. With Dirac, it didn't matter 60, 80, 100, 120hz, it will always set it perfectly. Secondly, the bass is much more tighter and impactful. When we measured, the GD appeared to have improved vs. Audyssey XT32 from what I've remembered measuring my system hundreds of times. The improvement on the precision from the mains to the subs is also attributed to the IR. Everything was just tight, smooth and cohesive as if you were in a sound bubble.

I LOVE this system! Outside of my main speakers, the 88a has been the best investment I've made so far in this hobby. Looking forward to getting a second 88a when I implement atmos/dts-x.

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post #10565 of 16911 Old 05-28-2016, 11:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lz7j View Post
At long last, having owned the 88A unit for the last month, I managed to find the time and an excuse to have the house all to myself to enjoy the new setup. As soon as I finished helping my wife and 2 small kids pack for a sleepover at the in-laws, I grabbed my buddy @Dbuudo07 to join me in a serious listening session with the 88a unit. I've been a long time Audyssey (xt to xt32) user in my mildly treated large room. With many subs, I've never had an issue with my frequency response as I've always managed +/-3db from 13hz-120hz by setting delays only. My current speakers are from DIYSoundGroup, the Fusion-15T (build thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post40768482) along with custom Radian coaxial side and rear surrounds. Outside of the schroeder frequency, my response with my LCR's are also within +/-3db before any eq/room correction.

We started off with the usual high-res music files through my oppo, songs like Voodoo Child, Money For Nothing, Hotel California, Against All Odds, Queen, etc. Typical volumes within the 2.1 setup ranged from +3MV to +10MV with subs +6db hot and xo'd at 80hz. What I noticed immediately was how much more focused the sound was, just superb imaging! The vocals were just smooth and incredibly balanced. When toggling between Dirac and XT32, the most immediate difference was the well controlled sibilance. I never thought I'd be able to listen to the same materials at the ridiculous volumes we were exposed to last night without my hands covering my ears. Dirac was just pure magic in this aspect -- both of my FR Dirac vs XT32 are within +/-2db of each other.

Aftter the crazy music session, we popped in the Deadpool Bluray, employed my movie setting (6db house curve + 6db bass hot overall) and watched the entire movie at reference volumes. Man, it was just so pleasing and very easy to listen to. The intelligibility and realism was just WOW! I've listened to a lot of systems and my buddy Dave, a movie critic has been to many screening rooms and top notch theatres. Both of us kept looking at each other and giving high-fives the entire time. The one thing I've also noticed was how the off-axis response was MUCH better. I moved seat to seat during the movie, and adjusted my seat height. The imaging just really locked you in there, while providing a more expansive sound (especially in the vertical plane) -- it sounded as if I had heights. And the bass... holy! Like I mentioned, my bass response by default, pre-anything is awesome. With Dirac, it takes it to the next 2 levels. For one, I no longer have to adjust my delays to correct the crossover section like what I've done with Audyssey. With Dirac, it didn't matter 60, 80, 100, 120hz, it will always set it perfectly. Secondly, the bass is much more tighter and impactful. When we measured, the GD appeared to have improved vs. Audyssey XT32 from what I've remembered measuring my system hundreds of times. The improvement on the precision from the mains to the subs is also attributed to the IR. Everything was just tight, smooth and cohesive as if you were in a sound bubble.

I LOVE this system! Outside of my main speakers, the 88a has been the best investment I've made so far in this hobby. Looking forward to getting a second 88a when I implement atmos/dts-x.
Great to hear you loving you system. I also feel the same. The only issue/change I'm working on is the room gain. My rear sub looses 6db after 30Hz and my front gains. Together they are almost flat. Therefore, I wanted to see if there was a way I could limit my rear sub response to 30Hz and then I would have a great low frequency gain. I don't know how to do this yet with either miniDSP 2x4 or Dirac. But other than this, I love the sound of my theater as well. Wish you were closer. I need buddies same same enthusiasm here in NJ.
Mind sharing your mdat file containing before/after Dirac?
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post #10566 of 16911 Old 05-28-2016, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by lz7j View Post
At

When toggling between Dirac and XT32, the most immediate difference was the well controlled sibilance.
Please describe exactly how you were able to toggle between Dirac and Audyssey without either completely removing the 88A, or doing some major changes to the trims and delays.
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post #10567 of 16911 Old 05-28-2016, 02:08 PM
 
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@AustinJerry any thoughts on https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post44352081

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post #10568 of 16911 Old 05-28-2016, 06:23 PM
 
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Alright. I feel
Like giving the 88a another shot. But with the 2.0v dip switch setting

So if anyone knows of any for sale secondhand. Lmk

B
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post #10569 of 16911 Old 05-28-2016, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
The reason is simply precision. I'm not sure how Dirac determines channel levels, but I know it's not with pink noise , and that's the only way you could do it without recalibrating. I think Dirac will set your channel levels more accurately than you could. Other than that, it really doesn't matter when gains are adjusted down.
Thanks for the explanation.

Tony

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post #10570 of 16911 Old 05-28-2016, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
Alright. I feel
Like giving the 88a another shot. But with the 2.0v dip switch setting

So if anyone knows of any for sale secondhand. Lmk

B
Brian, your waffling has me confused. Are you using the XMC-1 right now? If yes, what is convincing you to return to the 88A?

Or are you looking for a second 88a?

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post #10571 of 16911 Old 05-29-2016, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lz7j View Post
At long last, having owned the 88A unit for the last month, I managed to find the time and an excuse to have the house all to myself to enjoy the new setup. As soon as I finished helping my wife and 2 small kids pack for a sleepover at the in-laws, I grabbed my buddy @Dbuudo07 to join me in a serious listening session with the 88a unit. I've been a long time Audyssey (xt to xt32) user in my mildly treated large room. With many subs, I've never had an issue with my frequency response as I've always managed +/-3db from 13hz-120hz by setting delays only. My current speakers are from DIYSoundGroup, the Fusion-15T (build thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post40768482) along with custom Radian coaxial side and rear surrounds. Outside of the schroeder frequency, my response with my LCR's are also within +/-3db before any eq/room correction.

We started off with the usual high-res music files through my oppo, songs like Voodoo Child, Money For Nothing, Hotel California, Against All Odds, Queen, etc. Typical volumes within the 2.1 setup ranged from +3MV to +10MV with subs +6db hot and xo'd at 80hz. What I noticed immediately was how much more focused the sound was, just superb imaging! The vocals were just smooth and incredibly balanced. When toggling between Dirac and XT32, the most immediate difference was the well controlled sibilance. I never thought I'd be able to listen to the same materials at the ridiculous volumes we were exposed to last night without my hands covering my ears. Dirac was just pure magic in this aspect -- both of my FR Dirac vs XT32 are within +/-2db of each other.

Aftter the crazy music session, we popped in the Deadpool Bluray, employed my movie setting (6db house curve + 6db bass hot overall) and watched the entire movie at reference volumes. Man, it was just so pleasing and very easy to listen to. The intelligibility and realism was just WOW! I've listened to a lot of systems and my buddy Dave, a movie critic has been to many screening rooms and top notch theatres. Both of us kept looking at each other and giving high-fives the entire time. The one thing I've also noticed was how the off-axis response was MUCH better. I moved seat to seat during the movie, and adjusted my seat height. The imaging just really locked you in there, while providing a more expansive sound (especially in the vertical plane) -- it sounded as if I had heights. And the bass... holy! Like I mentioned, my bass response by default, pre-anything is awesome. With Dirac, it takes it to the next 2 levels. For one, I no longer have to adjust my delays to correct the crossover section like what I've done with Audyssey. With Dirac, it didn't matter 60, 80, 100, 120hz, it will always set it perfectly. Secondly, the bass is much more tighter and impactful. When we measured, the GD appeared to have improved vs. Audyssey XT32 from what I've remembered measuring my system hundreds of times. The improvement on the precision from the mains to the subs is also attributed to the IR. Everything was just tight, smooth and cohesive as if you were in a sound bubble.

I LOVE this system! Outside of my main speakers, the 88a has been the best investment I've made so far in this hobby. Looking forward to getting a second 88a when I implement atmos/dts-x.
You put the words exactly like i would have described it, its just a great tool and imo can't compare to the Audyssey @ all. Its just so much better..





GOOD TIMES:

Listening Preference
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post #10572 of 16911 Old 05-29-2016, 07:15 PM
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Therefore, I wanted to see if there was a way I could limit my rear sub response to 30Hz and then I would have a great low frequency gain. I don't know how to do this yet with either miniDSP 2x4 or Dirac.
I'm not sure what you are trying to do, exactly, but it sounds like exactly what the 2x4 is good at.

I've got my Dirac sub out going into a Y splitter to create two channels of post-dirac calibrated Bass. One goes directly to my sub amp, and the other goes through the 2x4 so I can apply separate x-over and delay (and then out to tactiles). You may choose to send both channels through the 2x4 if you needed to apply correction to both, for some reason. Does that cover what you are trying to do?
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post #10573 of 16911 Old 05-30-2016, 08:59 AM
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I was playing around with input levels and recalibrated once again (Jerry, you were right). For the OCDers among us, I found if I set levels with the sub topping out at -12db and then set the levels for each channel also at -12db using the volume control on the front of my Genelecs, my output at 0db measured right around 75db (within .3 db).

So, I've got the system set up to my satisfaction. It sounds great, focused, smooth, with no frequency spectrum coloring any other. Anyone who has considered actives for home theater, these Genelecs (8030b) work great in my room (around 2800 cf) and crossed over at 100hz, hit reference with seemingly low distortion.

Thanks all for the help. You are all a great resource.

Tony

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Brian, your waffling has me confused. Are you using the XMC-1 right now? If yes, what is convincing you to return to the 88A?

Or are you looking for a second 88a?
No I have a denon x7200wa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
+1

Also, what made you sell it to start with?
I sold it because it was having all my speakers at very low levels and seemingly neutering my bass response under 10hz.

The moment I had it disconnected and packed up someone suggested flipping the dip switches. So in willing to try that out now. If I can get one cheap.

If not I'm happy with what I have. I just like having something to tweak. Audyssey is too set it forget for me hahah
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post #10575 of 16911 Old 05-30-2016, 09:33 AM
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No I have a denon x7200wa



I sold it because it was having all my speakers at very low levels and seemingly neutering my bass response under 10hz.

The moment I had it disconnected and packed up someone suggested flipping the dip switches. So in willing to try that out now. If I can get one cheap.

If not I'm happy with what I have. I just like having something to tweak. Audyssey is too set it forget for me hahah
Yes, IMO you gave up too soon. There is no reason why you would not get similar results to what I am seeing, and I would not characterize my bass as neutered. This time around, give us a chance to help get your system dialed in properly. I am sure you will be pleased.
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post #10576 of 16911 Old 05-30-2016, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post
I was playing around with input levels and recalibrated once again (Jerry, you were right). For the OCDers among us, I found if I set levels with the sub topping out at -12db and then set the levels for each channel also at -12db using the volume control on the front of my Genelecs, my output at 0db measured right around 75db (within .3 db).

So, I've got the system set up to my satisfaction. It sounds great, focused, smooth, with no frequency spectrum coloring any other. Anyone who has considered actives for home theater, these Genelecs (8030b) work great in my room (around 2800 cf) and crossed over at 100hz, hit reference with seemingly low distortion.

Thanks all for the help. You are all a great resource.
I hate it when I am right, Tony.

Glad to hear you have it all worked out now.
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post #10577 of 16911 Old 05-30-2016, 07:37 PM
 
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How does one decide if cross over can be set to 100 when looking at the sub response?

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post #10578 of 16911 Old 05-30-2016, 07:50 PM
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Man, between trying to use REW(nightmare) and figuring out the gain structure and wrapping my mind around implementing MiniDsp 2x4 for my three subs, I am officially lost. Oh, and I don't even have my 88 yet. About ready to quit before I even start.
First question: Can I use my AVR's volume or do I use the 88a volume?
If I use the AVR volume (surely this is the case) what do I set the 88a volume at?
Thx for everyone's help. I have 2000 more questions after this.


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post #10579 of 16911 Old 05-30-2016, 08:22 PM
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Man, between trying to use REW(nightmare) and figuring out the gain structure and wrapping my mind around implementing MiniDsp 2x4 for my three subs, I am officially lost. Oh, and I don't even have my 88 yet. About ready to quit before I even start.
First question: Can I use my AVR's volume or do I use the 88a volume?
If I use the AVR volume (surely this is the case) what do I set the 88a volume at?
Thx for everyone's help. I have 2000 more questions after this.


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Did you read the guide linked in my sig?

Volume is set by the AVR master volume. The 88A volume control should always be set to max (zero).
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post #10580 of 16911 Old 05-30-2016, 08:33 PM
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Thx Jerry, I will read over it again.


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post #10581 of 16911 Old 05-30-2016, 10:34 PM
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I'm reading that the analog output voltage on my Denon 4520 is 1.2 volts. Is this the number I use for gain matching?


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post #10582 of 16911 Old 05-30-2016, 11:35 PM
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Does DDRC-88BM exist yet?
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Does DDRC-88BM exist yet?
No, not for public consumption, anyway.
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post #10584 of 16911 Old 05-31-2016, 12:58 PM
 
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I'm not sure what you are trying to do, exactly, but it sounds like exactly what the 2x4 is good at.

I've got my Dirac sub out going into a Y splitter to create two channels of post-dirac calibrated Bass. One goes directly to my sub amp, and the other goes through the 2x4 so I can apply separate x-over and delay (and then out to tactiles). You may choose to send both channels through the 2x4 if you needed to apply correction to both, for some reason. Does that cover what you are trying to do?
I already have this setup. From 88-a, the output goes to 2x4 minidsp where I'm setting the delays appropriately. What I was asking was to control the frequency response and not delay. In other words, I wanted
Sub1: to start from where ever it does and ends however long it goes
Sub2: start from 30 Hz and ends however long it goes.

But I think all this will complicate things.

@JerryAustin;, something very interesting happened last night. After calibration, I ran 1 point YPAO (yamaha roome correction) to set the distances with ceiling speakers. After it was done, I disabled it and reset levels. This effectively sets the delay for ceiling speakers. I have done it many times and its the right procedure. What changed though is that after calibration when I did some subjective listening, The center speaker wasn't as loud as it used to be. Just to give you an idea, I used to listen at -4 volume and yesterday, I had to turn volume to +2 to get to same level. All other speakers are also in line in loudness with center. So nothing to worry about here but the sub was more powerful. This +8Db felt more like +10 db.

Please note that all levels in avr are set to 0. Don't know what caused the change. If I give you two projects, would it be possible to find out the reason?

The only thing I noticed is that on the 3rd step of calibration where we need to set all speakers level to -12, center was a little higher than all other speakers. I could either reduce the level to bring C to -12 and then all other speakers with be lower than -12 or bring all speakers to -12 and have C a bit higher and that's what I went with. Do you see any issue with this?
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post #10585 of 16911 Old 05-31-2016, 04:04 PM
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Does DDRC-88BM exist yet?

I check this thread almost every day for that reason.
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post #10586 of 16911 Old 05-31-2016, 07:48 PM
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I check this thread almost every day for that reason.
I am starting to believe it is vaporware.
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post #10587 of 16911 Old 05-31-2016, 08:05 PM
 
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I check this thread almost every day for that reason.
Same here. I also hope that they would show the distance/level settings as well.
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post #10588 of 16911 Old 05-31-2016, 09:14 PM
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@JerryAustin;, something very interesting happened last night. After calibration, I ran 1 point YPAO (yamaha roome correction) to set the distances with ceiling speakers. After it was done, I disabled it and reset levels. This effectively sets the delay for ceiling speakers. I have done it many times and its the right procedure. What changed though is that after calibration when I did some subjective listening, The center speaker wasn't as loud as it used to be. Just to give you an idea, I used to listen at -4 volume and yesterday, I had to turn volume to +2 to get to same level. All other speakers are also in line in loudness with center. So nothing to worry about here but the sub was more powerful. This +8Db felt more like +10 db.

Please note that all levels in avr are set to 0. Don't know what caused the change. If I give you two projects, would it be possible to find out the reason?

The only thing I noticed is that on the 3rd step of calibration where we need to set all speakers level to -12, center was a little higher than all other speakers. I could either reduce the level to bring C to -12 and then all other speakers with be lower than -12 or bring all speakers to -12 and have C a bit higher and that's what I went with. Do you see any issue with this?
I don't know if I am following what happened. You were running a new Dirac calibration? What for? And while running this calibration, the level of the center relative to the other speakers was different? Why would it be different this run--what changed? You mentioned the YPAO 1-position calibration. If you reset the trims and delays set by YPAO, then this would have nothing to do with the center channel level being lower.

The real issue is why is the center channel output lower than the other speakers? Regardless of the level you selected for the center channel, Dirac should set all the output levels the same. Something is wrong with your calibration, and I suggest re-doing it. And I still don't understand why you keep changing things.
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post #10589 of 16911 Old 05-31-2016, 09:16 PM
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Same here. I also hope that they would show the distance/level settings as well.
If you were able to see the trims and delays set by Dirac, how would that benefit you? It is likely that they would be read-only, so you couldn't make any changes.
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post #10590 of 16911 Old 05-31-2016, 09:55 PM
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If you were able to see the trims and delays set by Dirac, how would that benefit you? It is likely that they would be read-only, so you couldn't make any changes.

I think it would be helpful for running multiple subs/postitions. I could run Dirac while having the up front subs connected, then run it again with the nearfield sub connected. I could then check the delay set by Dirac for each and then match it up manually with the minidsp for the nearfield sub.

I haven't read your setup guide yet using the 2x4 (I plan to when I get a 88A) and I'm sure it's plenty effective. I just like having options and I like messing/tweaking things.
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