**miniDSP DDRC-88A Official Thread**8-channel AI/AO Dirac Live in a box - Page 466 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13951 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Jan3 View Post
I'm sorry for being slightly OT, but as a happy 2x4 Minidsp owner for subs alignment, I am soon going to upgrade to an Atmos receiver and really want Dirac Live. Is there any reason why I should prefer Denon/Marantz + DDRC-88A instead of going to a receiver like Arcam with Dirac built-in from the start? Sorry if topic has been handled already, but I couldn't find it.
To use an AVR+88A for an Atmos configuration, you will need two 88A's. Depending on your budget, an AVR + two 88A's may cost more or less than a processor with native Dirac. Additionally, depending on which Dirac processor you are interested in, make sure you read the owner's thread because some Dirac processors have known issues, especially with bass management implementation.

IMO, there are few solutions that match the reliability and configurability of an AVR+88A solution. While I only have a 7.1. configuration (Marantz 8802A) with one 88A, this combination is wonderful.
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post #13952 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
What kind of SPL do you get at the MLP when you send a 0dBFS signal through the 88A?
Why is this important to the current topic?
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post #13953 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Why is this important to the current topic?
Because I suspect a gain staging issue.

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post #13954 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
To use an AVR+88A for an Atmos configuration, you will need two 88A's. Depending on your budget, an AVR + two 88A's may cost more or less than a processor with native Dirac. Additionally, depending on which Dirac processor you are interested in, make sure you read the owner's thread because some Dirac processors have known issues, especially with bass management implementation.

IMO, there are few solutions that match the reliability and configurability of an AVR+88A solution. While I only have a 7.1. configuration (Marantz 8802A) with one 88A, this combination is wonderful.
thank you for quick answer. If I would not change my AVR I might also do the same, but the need of 2x 88A's to add dirac to atmos... for the price I can buy an Arcam 390 with everything included (I use external amps of course). You are right about the issues/bugs, I will look deeper into it at the Arcam forum.
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post #13955 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Jan3 View Post
thank you for quick answer. If I would not change my AVR I might also do the same, but the need of 2x 88A's to add dirac to atmos... for the price I can buy an Arcam 390 with everything included (I use external amps of course). You are right about the issues/bugs, I will look deeper into it at the Arcam forum.
You are aware there's a NAD T 758 v3 that can do 12 channels of Dirac Live?

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post #13956 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 07:51 AM
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ha, no I didn't thanks for showing me! Reading the relevant thread right now!
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post #13957 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
You are aware there's a NAD T 758 v3 that can do 12 channels of Dirac Live?
According to the a link to the Dirac Website from the NAD website, the full version supports up to 8 channels, not 12. So I wonder if it is 8 or 12.

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post #13958 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post
According to the a link to the Dirac Website from the NAD website, the full version supports up to 8 channels, not 12. So I wonder if it is 8 or 12.
just read on the forum saying it is 12. The only issues apparently after last firmware:
LFE cutoff at 70Hz
no LAN, only wifi (can live with that)
no DTS:X (yet?)

I'm glad I heard about the NAD, normally I prefer Denon/Marantz with their large user base, but the NAD looks very interesting for the price.
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post #13959 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post
According to the a link to the Dirac Website from the NAD website, the full version supports up to 8 channels, not 12. So I wonder if it is 8 or 12.
It's 12.

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Originally Posted by Jan3 View Post
no DTS:X (yet?)
I've asked NAD support the same thing. No answer yet.

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post #13960 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 08:35 AM
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Does the DDRC-88A come with a full software license for the Dirac Live? I eventually want to get a DDRC-88A + Dedicated Amp, but im wondering if i can get the DDRC-88A now and let my PC do the Dirac Live processing until im able to afford an amp

It would be more cost effective than getting the Dirac Live Suite then ditching it for the DDRC-88A + Amp down the road.

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post #13961 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Because I suspect a gain staging issue.
Well, I have the buzz as well. My signal path:

Marantz 8802A Balanced ==> 88A 8v in ==> 88A 4v out balanced ==> ATI AT527 Amp

Where would you say that I have a gain staging issue? BTW, the buzz is present if the 8802A is powered off, but not if the 88A is powered off.
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post #13962 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Well, I have the buzz as well. My signal path:

Marantz 8802A Balanced ==> 88A 8v in ==> 88A 4v out balanced ==> ATI AT527 Amp

Where would you say that I have a gain staging issue? BTW, the buzz is present if the 8802A is powered off, but not if the 88A is powered off.
What input level do you see in the 88BM app when you send a 0dBFS signal from your AVR?

Markus

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post #13963 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
What input level do you see in the 88BM app when you send a 0dBFS signal from your AVR?
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post #13964 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Attached below.
Looks like there is no signal going into the 88A. You also look at the output not the input.
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post #13965 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
It's 12.
With only 8 pre outs how does it do this? I asked Crutchfield and they said it only does 7.1.

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post #13966 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post
With only 8 pre outs how does it do this? I asked Crutchfield and they said it only does 7.1.
It has 12 pre-outs. See the 4 on the left card.

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post #13967 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post
With only 8 pre outs how does it do this? I asked Crutchfield and they said it only does 7.1.
Here's the T758v3 thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...ad-758-v3.html

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post #13968 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
It has 12 pre-outs. See the 4 on the left card.
Duh!
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post #13969 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Looks like there is no signal going into the 88A. You also look at the output not the input.
I am certainly willing to provide what you want, but you need to provide more specific instructions. Are you willing to do that?
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post #13970 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 11:09 AM
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How to swap left channel and subwoofer

I have successfully moved the subwoofer channel to 88A input 1, thereby eliminating the buzzing sound on the left channel. In case anyone else wants to try, here are the steps. It will take approximately 15 minutes.

1. Swap the input connections, moving the LFE input to 88A channel 1, and the FL input to 88A channel 3. Easier with unbalanced connections than re-wiring the Phoenix block!
2. In the 88A bass management software, open the Routing tab, and re-name FL In 1 to LFE In 1, and LFE In 1 to FL In 1 (to avoid future confusion).
3. Route the signal from FL In 1 to Dirac 1, and turn off the routing for LFE In 1 to Dirac 3.



4. Open the LFE Mgt tab, and re-name FL In to LFE In, and LFE In to FL In (to avoid future confusion).
5. For the LFE In channel, set both the HPF and LPF to "Bypassed".



6. For the FL In channel, change both the HPF and LPF to "Bypass", and select the appropriate crossover settings for the left channel (100Hz and L-R/24dB/Oct in the example).



7. Using your AVR speaker test tones, test to make sure all channels are outputting sound properly.
8. Verify that no buzzing sound can be heard on the left channel.
9. Done!


Note that re-running the Dirac calibration is not necessary, because all of the configuration changes happen before Dirac, and the same channels are ultimately input to the same Dirac inputs.

Edit: And a special thanks to @sdurani , who suggested this channel swap back in post 13980. You always have great ideas, Sanjay!
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Last edited by AustinJerry; 11-02-2017 at 11:46 AM.
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post #13971 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I am certainly willing to provide what you want, but you need to provide more specific instructions. Are you willing to do that?
My original post post was actually very specific: "What input level do you see in the 88BM app when you send a 0dBFS signal from your AVR?"

Markus

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post #13972 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 11:51 AM
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@AustinJerry
I notice from your screen shots that you are running DDRC88 plug-in version 2.0 and Firmware 2.24 - whereas the current versions available in User Downloads from miniDSP are version 1.8 & 2.23

Now I happen to be running the same versions as you - because I discovered a small issue with the way Dirac was correcting my Left Channel around the crossover region - and when I reported it to miniDSP they suggested I try out a version they made available to me via a special download link.

I have since noticed that this newer version is now current for the latest DDRC88D (all digital version).

Just wondering - why are you running that version? Are you still a beta tester?

Regards, Mike.

System: Pioneer KRP-500M, Lumagen Mini3D, Denon AVR-4520 (custom modified to allow use of >>>), miniDSP DDRC88BM, Oppo 103EU, Sky+HD DRX895, Humax HDR-FOX-T2 (x2), Apple ATV3
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post #13973 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Edit: And a special thanks to @sdurani , who suggested this channel swap back in post 13980. You always have great ideas, Sanjay!
I did mention it already in my initial post 13909...
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post #13974 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Edit: And a special thanks to @sdurani , who suggested this channel swap back in post 13980. You always have great ideas, Sanjay!
+1

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post #13975 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TimoJ View Post
I did mention it already in my initial post 13909...
Of course, and I apologize for not giving you credit. My recollection was that you simply stopped using channel 1, not that you recommended swapping channels 1 and 3. I stand corrected.
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post #13976 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
@AustinJerry
I notice from your screen shots that you are running DDRC88 plug-in version 2.0 and Firmware 2.24 - whereas the current versions available in User Downloads from miniDSP are version 1.8 & 2.23

Now I happen to be running the same versions as you - because I discovered a small issue with the way Dirac was correcting my Left Channel around the crossover region - and when I reported it to miniDSP they suggested I try out a version they made available to me via a special download link.

I have since noticed that this newer version is now current for the latest DDRC88D (all digital version).

Just wondering - why are you running that version? Are you still a beta tester?

Regards, Mike.
As I was trouble-shooting the buzzing sound with MiniDSP Support, they suggested I try this version. It did not make any difference.
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post #13977 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
My original post post was actually very specific: "What input level do you see in the 88BM app when you send a 0dBFS signal from your AVR?"
Well, @TimoJ was having trouble following your sparse instructions as well. I interpreted your request to turn up the MV on the AVR to zero with no signal and observe the levels on the output meters of the 88A, which is what I did. If this was not what you wanted, then you can only blame yourself for not providing more specific instructions. Throughout this thread, I have tried to be very specific when providing instructions to other users. I am sorry you don’t do the same.

Regardless, it is likely too late to satisfy your request, since I have already eliminated the buzzing sound. I have no interest in this discussion any more.
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post #13978 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
My original post post was actually very specific: "What input level do you see in the 88BM app when you send a 0dBFS signal from your AVR?"
Is that Dirac pane of the BM app that you are talking about? I can't see input levels anywhere else.

I'm still confused about this 0dBFS signal since at least my preamp (Nakamichi AV1 i.e. very similar as UMC-200) doesn't have levels calibrated like that. I can input signal that shows 0dBFS at Dirac pane, is that correct? If I then measure SPL, should I use just one channel? And is that with 1Khz tone?
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post #13979 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Well, @TimoJ was having trouble following your sparse instructions as well. I interpreted your request to turn up the MV on the AVR to zero with no signal and observe the levels on the output meters of the 88A, which is what I did. If this was not what you wanted, then you can only blame yourself for not providing more specific instructions. Throughout this thread, I have tried to be very specific when providing instructions to other users. I am sorry you don’t do the same.

Regardless, it is likely too late to satisfy your request, since I have already eliminated the buzzing sound. I have no interest in this discussion any more.
Sorry Jerry but I said specifically INPUT LEVEL not output level. And 0dBFS means 0dB FULL SCALE not "no signal". You did the opposite of what I wrote.

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post #13980 of 16654 Old 11-02-2017, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimoJ View Post
I did mention it already in my initial post 13909...
I just checked my old post and noticed that @AV_mike made the same suggestion a few minutes before I did. When Jerry posted the frequency of the buzz, seems a few of us had the same thought.

Sanjay
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