**miniDSP DDRC-88A Official Thread**8-channel AI/AO Dirac Live in a box - Page 512 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15331 of 16788 Old 05-26-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Sadus View Post
About to pull the trigger on an 88A --- has anyone purchased the Phoenix-XLR adapters from them directly? They want $30 but for one, not sure if that is for one channel or does that cover all 8 channels? Seeing the phoenix->XLR adapters for like $7 from cheaper makers like Hosa for just a single channel. Probably not worth it for such short cable runs but then I start thinking "why not?" since I already have a bunch of balanced cables.
IMO, you are better off building your own connections to the Phoenix blocks, for several reasons. First of all, this allows you to cut the balanced cable to the exact length you need, which makes the connections nice and neat. Second, the Phoenix-to-XLR adapters mean extra bulky connectors at the back of the 88A, which is completely avoided when you cut cables and wore directly to the Phoenix blocks. And finally, it is less expensive.

Here is a guide for building your own cables: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post30817090
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post #15332 of 16788 Old 05-26-2018, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadus View Post
About to pull the trigger on an 88A --- has anyone purchased the Phoenix-XLR adapters from them directly? They want $30 but for one, not sure if that is for one channel or does that cover all 8 channels? Seeing the phoenix->XLR adapters for like $7 from cheaper makers like Hosa for just a single channel. Probably not worth it for such short cable runs but then I start thinking "why not?" since I already have a bunch of balanced cables.

It covers all channels.

So $60 will get you all 8 channels input and output.
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post #15333 of 16788 Old 05-27-2018, 04:44 AM
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I have a DDRC-88A in my cart ready to order

will use for 5.2 channel Krell Foundation 4K /Parasound Halo amp

this is the cart:

DDRC-88A Existing UMIK-1 owner? NO (Ship with UMIK-1)
Phoenix to XLR Male YES
Phoenix to XLR Female YES

88BM option YES
IR remote YES


anything I am missing from this order?

tia

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post #15334 of 16788 Old 05-27-2018, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
I have a DDRC-88A in my cart ready to order

will use for 5.2 channel Krell Foundation 4K /Parasound Halo amp

this is the cart:

DDRC-88A Existing UMIK-1 owner? NO (Ship with UMIK-1)
Phoenix to XLR Male YES
Phoenix to XLR Female YES

88BM option YES
IR remote YES


anything I am missing from this order?

tia
Looks good for the MiniDSP parts. You might consider ordering a longer USB cable, if you don’t already have one. The cable provided with the mic is not very long. You can use up to a 16’ passive USB cable, which can be ordered from Monoprice for a reasonable cost.

If you have a programmable remote like a Harmony, the remote for the 88A is unnecessary.
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post #15335 of 16788 Old 05-27-2018, 08:24 AM
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I have decided to roll back to the last software, and reverted to wiring the "Solution 1 of the Dual 88 setup".

The "Sub Channel Check Box "bug is no longer a problem, and I started with @avmike config files he kindly provided a few weeks back - thanks again. I updated the 250Hz LPF in the Denon to match this too.

Success!

I now have 7 base channels on 88-1 being Dirac'ed, with the LFE plus BM managed base channels passing through to the 88-2 (not sure what went wrong previously).

The 88-2 then Bass Manages the Height channels and Diracs both the Height channels and the Subwoofer channel (combined 11 chanenels BM LF plus LFE).

Before running the calibration - I used a PEQ to tame the combined Front Subs at 40Hz, which seems to have helped the final Dirac EQ.

I now have to run Audyssey / check timing between the units, and double check the Gains.

I have set Slot 1 for Auto Target Curves. It looked like a couple of surround/rear speakers had dips and could not be fully corrected so I am looking at House Curves to bring the overall levels down to allow EQ within the +10dB boost tolerances.

When I do this with the text editor, I can't see how I bring the whole curve down - as the very high frequencies seem fixed, so they peak instead of a gradual roll-off.

Has anyone got any advice for this?

I have attached links to both projects and BM config files if that helps...thanks.



Ken Kreisel Twin DXD808, Q125 LCR, x4 Q125 TriFX, x4 QFH - for Atmos 7.2.4/Auro 9.2/DTS:X 11.2
Oppo 93 & 203 & Sony VPLHW55ES PJ with Lumagen 2020, 2.35:1 Seymour AT XD screen. Logitech Ultimate One & Hub, SqBox Touch & Philips Hue. Nakamichi AVP1 with Denon X7200WA. With MiniDSP 2x4.
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post #15336 of 16788 Old 05-27-2018, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post
I have decided to roll back to the last software, and reverted to wiring the "Solution 1 of the Dual 88 setup".

The "Sub Channel Check Box "bug is no longer a problem, and I started with @avmike config files he kindly provided a few weeks back - thanks again. I updated the 250Hz LPF in the Denon to match this too.

Success!

I now have 7 base channels on 88-1 being Dirac'ed, with the LFE plus BM managed base channels passing through to the 88-2 (not sure what went wrong previously).

The 88-2 then Bass Manages the Height channels and Diracs both the Height channels and the Subwoofer channel (combined 11 chanenels BM LF plus LFE).

Before running the calibration - I used a PEQ to tame the combined Front Subs at 40Hz, which seems to have helped the final Dirac EQ.

I now have to run Audyssey / check timing between the units, and double check the Gains.

I have set Slot 1 for Auto Target Curves. It looked like a couple of surround/rear speakers had dips and could not be fully corrected so I am looking at House Curves to bring the overall levels down to allow EQ within the +10dB boost tolerances.

When I do this with the text editor, I can't see how I bring the whole curve down - as the very high frequencies seem fixed, so they peak instead of a gradual roll-off.

Has anyone got any advice for this?

I have attached links to both projects and BM config files if that helps...thanks.


I’m glad to hear that your perseverance appears to be paying off. I’m on a mobile device at the moment, but when I get back home I will download projects and have a look.
It could be as simply as turning on the Low Pass filter options within the Dirac target text files, that will provide a roll off at the highest frequencies.
Regards, Mike.
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System: Pioneer KRP-500M, Lumagen Mini3D, Denon AVR-4520 (custom modified to allow use of >>>), miniDSP DDRC88BM, Oppo 103EU, Sky+HD DRX895, Humax HDR-FOX-T2 (x2), Apple ATV3
Bowers & Wilkins CM8 (left & right) - CMC2 (centre) - Kef HTS3001SE Surrounds, miniDSP 2x4HD, SVS SB13 Ultra, SVS SB2000 (x2) <<< Perfectly blended by MSO
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post #15337 of 16788 Old 05-28-2018, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post
I have decided to roll back to the last software, and reverted to wiring the "Solution 1 of the Dual 88 setup".

The "Sub Channel Check Box "bug is no longer a problem, and I started with @avmike config files he kindly provided a few weeks back - thanks again. I updated the 250Hz LPF in the Denon to match this too.

Success!

I now have 7 base channels on 88-1 being Dirac'ed, with the LFE plus BM managed base channels passing through to the 88-2 (not sure what went wrong previously).

The 88-2 then Bass Manages the Height channels and Diracs both the Height channels and the Subwoofer channel (combined 11 chanenels BM LF plus LFE).

Before running the calibration - I used a PEQ to tame the combined Front Subs at 40Hz, which seems to have helped the final Dirac EQ.

I now have to run Audyssey / check timing between the units, and double check the Gains.

I have set Slot 1 for Auto Target Curves. It looked like a couple of surround/rear speakers had dips and could not be fully corrected so I am looking at House Curves to bring the overall levels down to allow EQ within the +10dB boost tolerances.

When I do this with the text editor, I can't see how I bring the whole curve down - as the very high frequencies seem fixed, so they peak instead of a gradual roll-off.

Has anyone got any advice for this?

I have attached links to both projects and BM config files if that helps...thanks.


I would try the attached targets, I've enabled the Low Pass Filters, and modified the low frequency roll-on points to be more sympathetic to the speakers response curves. Also made a small change to the subwoofer channel - as it was introducing some boost below 20Hz.
Regards, Mike
Attached Files
File Type: zip New Targets.zip (1.3 KB, 11 views)
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System: Pioneer KRP-500M, Lumagen Mini3D, Denon AVR-4520 (custom modified to allow use of >>>), miniDSP DDRC88BM, Oppo 103EU, Sky+HD DRX895, Humax HDR-FOX-T2 (x2), Apple ATV3
Bowers & Wilkins CM8 (left & right) - CMC2 (centre) - Kef HTS3001SE Surrounds, miniDSP 2x4HD, SVS SB13 Ultra, SVS SB2000 (x2) <<< Perfectly blended by MSO
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post #15338 of 16788 Old 05-28-2018, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
I would try the attached targets, I've enabled the Low Pass Filters, and modified the low frequency roll-on points to be more sympathetic to the speakers response curves. Also made a small change to the subwoofer channel - as it was introducing some boost below 20Hz.
Regards, Mike
When you say that you have enabled the low pass filters, are you talking about the LPSLOPEON parameter? While I have reported on this parameter's behavior in the Custom Targets guide, it is an undocumented feature that I am reluctant to use, because we really don't know what else it does. As for the up-turn in the target curve as it approaches 20KHz, this behavior is present in every custom target I have seen. Since it is well beyond the human ear's hearing range, I have always preferred to leave it alone. Now, if you tell me you can hear any difference with LPSLOPEON enabled or disabled, I'll consider that you have Golden Ears!
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post #15339 of 16788 Old 05-28-2018, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
When you say that you have enabled the low pass filters, are you talking about the LPSLOPEON parameter? While I have reported on this parameter's behavior in the Custom Targets guide, it is an undocumented feature that I am reluctant to use, because we really don't know what else it does. As for the up-turn in the target curve as it approaches 20KHz, this behavior is present in every custom target I have seen. Since it is well beyond the human ear's hearing range, I have always preferred to leave it alone. Now, if you tell me you can hear any difference with LPSLOPEON enabled or disabled, I'll consider that you have Golden Ears!
No Golden Ears here - way beyond what I can hear - but our mutual friend REW can certainly hear up at that frequency. Although not documented - I am surprised that you have not already tested the effects of enable/disable and the order options (I know that 2, 4, and 8 appear to work).
For those blessed with Precious Lugholes - the elimination of a very high frequency boost could be advantageous.
Regards, Mike.

I await your updated guide............................................. ...

P.S. sorry for hurried post - I'm in the middle of fixing my sister's kitchen sink - got to get back round there.....................

System: Pioneer KRP-500M, Lumagen Mini3D, Denon AVR-4520 (custom modified to allow use of >>>), miniDSP DDRC88BM, Oppo 103EU, Sky+HD DRX895, Humax HDR-FOX-T2 (x2), Apple ATV3
Bowers & Wilkins CM8 (left & right) - CMC2 (centre) - Kef HTS3001SE Surrounds, miniDSP 2x4HD, SVS SB13 Ultra, SVS SB2000 (x2) <<< Perfectly blended by MSO

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post #15340 of 16788 Old 05-28-2018, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
No Golden Ears here - way beyond what I can hear - but our mutual friend REW can certainly hear up at that frequency. Although not documented - I am surprised that you have not already tested the effects of enable/disable and the order options (I know that 2, 4, and 8 appear to work).
For those blessed with Precious Lugholes - the elimination of a very high frequency boost could be advantageous.
Regards, Mike.

I await your updated guide............................................. ...

P.S. sorry for hurried post - I'm in the middle of fixing my sister's kitchen sink - got to get back round there.....................
Oh, I have experimented with it, and measured the results with REW. It is all documented in the guide. However, since I can’t hear any difference, I prefer not to use that setting.
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post #15341 of 16788 Old 05-28-2018, 02:12 PM
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Thanks Jerry/thread -- canceled my 88A order for now until the new Dirac version is out.

https://www.dirac.com/dirac-blog/qa-new-dirac-live sounded promising that the new version would work with existing hardware, but not worth the gamble vs just waiting a few months at this point.

For what its worth I asked MiniDSP to cancel my order (that hadn't been shipped yet) unless they could guarantee it'd work with the new Dirac version, and it was canceled. They did not mention anything about the new Dirac version specifically though. Hoping I'm just wasting my time and 88A's will just need a firmware update though.

Last edited by Sadus; 05-29-2018 at 11:48 AM.
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post #15342 of 16788 Old 05-29-2018, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
I would try the attached targets, I've enabled the Low Pass Filters, and modified the low frequency roll-on points to be more sympathetic to the speakers response curves. Also made a small change to the subwoofer channel - as it was introducing some boost below 20Hz.
Regards, Mike
Thanks for the target files - I got a chance to load into both projects, and used for The Matrix last night - very pleased. More tinkering awaits....

A quick question - e.g. On the LCR - "low frequency roll-on points" - if my Crossovers are 100Hz, these frequencies won't make it to the speakers in practice. So would it be better to copy the Subwoofer curve here to prevent reducing the LF of the LCR unnecessarily? I think the same applies with the Surrounds/Heights?

===========================

I have amended my drawing to reflect the latest wiring and config files. I know this seems overkill, but it both helps my understanding now and in the months/years to come.

Q2. I changed the LPF of LFE to 120Hz in the 88-1 - but left it BYPASSED in 88-2. A niggle makes me want to check this is correct - see attached.

===========================

Q3. Does anyone have a work around of communicating to both 88-1 and 88-2 at the same time, on the same PC? I am finding the trouble of going into 2 different DLCT projects, and BM of both units, a royal pain. The latter is the worst, as the way of having to load a file, connect/synchronise is difficult at times to remember exactly what's going on. I have decided to have a Config file for each SLOT now, making a total of 8 BM files for both 88 units.

There must be hundreds of parameters / settings here - has anyone ever found a way of tracking / recording progress. Or filing away Config/projects with comments/notes to make progress easier. The time it takes to do some of this means I have to come back to it later. A Print out facility would be good.....

===========================
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 20180529 - DUAL 88 SETUP.pdf (50.8 KB, 14 views)

Ken Kreisel Twin DXD808, Q125 LCR, x4 Q125 TriFX, x4 QFH - for Atmos 7.2.4/Auro 9.2/DTS:X 11.2
Oppo 93 & 203 & Sony VPLHW55ES PJ with Lumagen 2020, 2.35:1 Seymour AT XD screen. Logitech Ultimate One & Hub, SqBox Touch & Philips Hue. Nakamichi AVP1 with Denon X7200WA. With MiniDSP 2x4.
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post #15343 of 16788 Old 05-29-2018, 07:06 AM
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[quote=wl1;56257984]

Quote:
A quick question - e.g. On the LCR - "low frequency roll-on points" - if my Crossovers are 100Hz, these frequencies won't make it to the speakers in practice. So would it be better to copy the Subwoofer curve here to prevent reducing the LF of the LCR unnecessarily? I think the same applies with the Surrounds/Heights?
Not sure I understand the question. The goal is to have identical correction in the range of one octave below, and one octave above, the crossover (50-200Hz for a 100Hz crossover). There is noting wrong with adjusting the correction cut-off in the low end for speaker groups that have higher low frequency roll-off. For example, I don't correct below 50Hz for my surrounds, but correct down to 30Hz for the LCR. Does that address the question?


Quote:
Q2. I changed the LPF of LFE to 120Hz in the 88-1 - but left it BYPASSED in 88-2.
The purpose of the LPF on the LFE channel is to block sound that may have crept into the LFE channel that is above 120Hz. The LFE channel only contains by design frequencies below 120Hz. Where to implement the LPF is the real question. The LFE signal originates in your pre-pro, is routed to input 3 on 88A-1, and then passed along with the re-directed bass from the bed channels to input 3 on 88A-2, correct? In the pre-pro, can the LPF for LFE be defeated (on my Marantz, it cannot). If no, then you don't want an LPF for LFE on either 88A, since cascading LPF's is not a good idea. Simply leave the LPF in the pre-pro as is. If the pre-pr0 is not implementing the LPFD, then the correct place for it is in 88A-1, not 88A-2. If you implement it in 88A-2, it will apply to the re-directed bass from the bed channels as well, which would be wrong.


Quote:
Q3. Does anyone have a work around of communicating to both 88-1 and 88-2 at the same time, on the same PC? I am finding the trouble of going into 2 different DLCT projects, and BM of both units, a royal pain. The latter is the worst, as the way of having to load a file, connect/synchronise is difficult at times to remember exactly what's going on. I have decided to have a Config file for each SLOT now, making a total of 8 BM files for both 88 units.
This is a more difficult question. There are no short-cuts. However, IMO there is also no need to make things more complicated than they need to be. Do you really have four unique custom targets that you use? In my case, I use different 88A pre-sets to compare different target curves, but once I decide which target is the best, I use the same target curve for ALL sources (movies and music). Tweaking the target curve for different sources is borderline obsessive, no disrespect intended. And as for the bass management configuration, why would you have different ones for each slot? The crossovers and bass management should be the same, regardless of which slot you are using, so simply copying the configuration to all pre-sets should be relatively simple. The only case in which this may not apply is if you have implemented gain management, and you need different output levels for different pre-sets, assuming you are using different target curves. Again, settling on one target curve eliminates this complexity. Did you implement gain management and, if so, are you doing it on both 88A's? I don't know of anyone who has done gain management on a two-88A configuration

Finally, you are the classic example of how implementing a dual-88A configuration for immersive set-ups can become overly complex. Is it worth the effort? Or would you be better off with one of the newer processors that have Dirac Live correction for more than 8 channels, like the NAD? You could sell the two 88A's and get enough money to buy a NAD, and your life would be much simpler, IMO.
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post #15344 of 16788 Old 05-29-2018, 07:28 AM
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[quote=AustinJerry;56258400]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post

Not sure I understand the question. The goal is to have identical correction in the range of one octave below, and one octave above, the crossover (50-200Hz for a 100Hz crossover). There is noting wrong with adjusting the correction cut-off in the low end for speaker groups that have higher low frequency roll-off. For example, I don't correct below 50Hz for my surrounds, but correct down to 30Hz for the LCR. Does that address the question?
I now appreciate that the Dirac filter correction will never "see" the frequencies one octave below the crossovers, and so the Target is irrelevant. I think the use of the curtain would be appropriate then...

I'll come back to the other points shortly....

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Oppo 93 & 203 & Sony VPLHW55ES PJ with Lumagen 2020, 2.35:1 Seymour AT XD screen. Logitech Ultimate One & Hub, SqBox Touch & Philips Hue. Nakamichi AVP1 with Denon X7200WA. With MiniDSP 2x4.
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post #15345 of 16788 Old 05-30-2018, 07:20 AM
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[quote=wl1;56258500]
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post


I'll come back to the other points shortly....
I would be interested in why you are using all four pre-sets on the 88A. Do you really have four different target curves for various types of content? I would also be interested in why you would have four different settings for bass management. What are the differences?

Thanks.
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post #15346 of 16788 Old 05-30-2018, 02:26 PM
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[quote=AustinJerry;56258400]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post

The purpose of the LPF on the LFE channel is to block sound that may have crept into the LFE channel that is above 120Hz. The LFE channel only contains by design frequencies below 120Hz. Where to implement the LPF is the real question. The LFE signal originates in your pre-pro, is routed to input 3 on 88A-1, and then passed along with the re-directed bass from the bed channels to input 3 on 88A-2, correct? In the pre-pro, can the LPF for LFE be defeated (on my Marantz, it cannot). If no, then you don't want an LPF for LFE on either 88A, since cascading LPF's is not a good idea. Simply leave the LPF in the pre-pro as is. If the pre-pr0 is not implementing the LPFD, then the correct place for it is in 88A-1, not 88A-2. If you implement it in 88A-2, it will apply to the re-directed bass from the bed channels as well, which would be wrong.
My Denon doesn’t defeat the LPF for LFE, rather it is a Parameter which can be set. A value of 250Hz was suggested here by @AV_mike , with the 120Hz being set in the 88 instead. From the rest of your answer it sounds like just having it set once, and in the 88-1 is correct. Thanks....
I can’t remember why AVMike suggested changing it and implementing in the BM plugin, perhaps it was to keep all things in one place.

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Oppo 93 & 203 & Sony VPLHW55ES PJ with Lumagen 2020, 2.35:1 Seymour AT XD screen. Logitech Ultimate One & Hub, SqBox Touch & Philips Hue. Nakamichi AVP1 with Denon X7200WA. With MiniDSP 2x4.
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post #15347 of 16788 Old 05-30-2018, 02:53 PM
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[quote=AustinJerry;56258400]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post

This is a more difficult question. There are no short-cuts. However, IMO there is also no need to make things more complicated than they need to be. Do you really have four unique custom targets that you use? In my case, I use different 88A pre-sets to compare different target curves, but once I decide which target is the best, I use the same target curve for ALL sources (movies and music). Tweaking the target curve for different sources is borderline obsessive, no disrespect intended. And as for the bass management configuration, why would you have different ones for each slot? The crossovers and bass management should be the same, regardless of which slot you are using, so simply copying the configuration to all pre-sets should be relatively simple. The only case in which this may not apply is if you have implemented gain management, and you need different output levels for different pre-sets, assuming you are using different target curves. Again, settling on one target curve eliminates this complexity. Did you implement gain management and, if so, are you doing it on both 88A's? I don't know of anyone who has done gain management on a two-88A configuration

Finally, you are the classic example of how implementing a dual-88A configuration for immersive set-ups can become overly complex. Is it worth the effort? Or would you be better off with one of the newer processors that have Dirac Live correction for more than 8 channels, like the NAD? You could sell the two 88A's and get enough money to buy a NAD, and your life would be much simpler, IMO.
I am about to enter into the “comparison” stage of testing various Targets, now the wiring/measuring has been done. So having 4 slots makes sense....things like Auto Correct, Harmon, my own version to play with, and a blank to turn off Dirac but keep the Timings will be my 4 Slots / Presets. In terms of BM, your guide indicates I have crossovers still to play with, REW will help here too. But any changes will probably want to be checked to “hear” a difference. This might be where more Slots will be used. I agree, longer term, I expect I will settle on 1 or 2 and leave them.

It sounds like most on here have evolved with the 88 and then BM, where both are new to me. So I am having more variables until I nail stuff down.

I won’t be adding the “different source” Slot though...I was expecting to have a different Slot for Music preferences though. We will see.

I did follow the guide for Gains, and the Harmon Target curve (Slot 2) had no boosts, yet my Auto Curve (Slot 1) did. Listening between the two was very different levels, so I tried to bring the Harmon Slot 2 BM Output Gains up to match.

I agree I might be making this more complex than it needs to be. It is certainly taking more time than I expected or wanted. But it is not a cheap technology, so I want to ensure I assess every option and learn to optimise it for my setup.

If I didn’t already have an AVR [3 yrs warranty remaining), then an Arcam / NAD may have been an option, if I had known Dirac was defo worth it. I feel my Denon is a great AVR and meets my needs. “I have started, so I will finish” to coin a phrase. The 4 Slots advantage, plus not relying on Dirac within the AVR Technology is likely an advantage in the future. Eg I expect a better MiniDSP response to any Dirac improvements via FW than I would from AVR manufacturers.

Lastly, I want to be very clear that I could not have even started down this path without your excellent guides. Superbly clear and concise guides, thanks again.
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post #15348 of 16788 Old 05-30-2018, 02:57 PM
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[quote=wl1;56265844]
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
My Denon doesn’t defeat the LPF for LFE, rather it is a Parameter which can be set. A value of 250Hz was suggested here by @AV_mike , with the 120Hz being set in the 88 instead. From the rest of your answer it sounds like just having it set once, and in the 88-1 is correct. Thanks....
I can’t remember why AVMike suggested changing it and implementing in the BM plugin, perhaps it was to keep all things in one place.
I can’t tell from your answer—where did you implement the LPF? If it can’t be defeated in the Denon, then that is the only correct place for it. I don’t understand why Mike would recommend a 250Hz value. Perhaps if he is reading our conversation, he will explain.
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post #15349 of 16788 Old 05-30-2018, 03:08 PM
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[quote=wl1;56265966]
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I am about to enter into the “comparison” stage of testing various Targets, now the wiring/measuring has been done. So having 4 slots makes sense....things like Auto Correct, Harmon, my own version to play with, and a blank to turn off Dirac but keep the Timings will be my 4 Slots / Presets. In terms of BM, your guide indicates I have crossovers still to play with, REW will help here too. But any changes will probably want to be checked to “hear” a difference. This might be where more Slots will be used. I agree, longer term, I expect I will settle on 1 or 2 and leave them.

It sounds like most on here have evolved with the 88 and then BM, where both are new to me. So I am having more variables until I nail stuff down.

I won’t be adding the “different source” Slot though...I was expecting to have a different Slot for Music preferences though. We will see.

I did follow the guide for Gains, and the Harmon Target curve (Slot 2) had no boosts, yet my Auto Curve (Slot 1) did. Listening between the two was very different levels, so I tried to bring the Harmon Slot 2 BM Output Gains up to match.

I agree I might be making this more complex than it needs to be. It is certainly taking more time than I expected or wanted. But it is not a cheap technology, so I want to ensure I assess every option and learn to optimise it for my setup.

If I didn’t already have an AVR [3 yrs warranty remaining), then an Arcam / NAD may have been an option, if I had known Dirac was defo worth it. I feel my Denon is a great AVR and meets my needs. “I have started, so I will finish” to coin a phrase. The 4 Slots advantage, plus not relying on Dirac within the AVR Technology is likely an advantage in the future. Eg I expect a better MiniDSP response to any Dirac improvements via FW than I would from AVR manufacturers.

Lastly, I want to be very clear that I could not have even started down this path without your excellent guides. Superbly clear and concise guides, thanks again.
Thank you for the kind words. Now that I understand you are still in the experimentation phase, I understand why you are using all four pre-sets on the 88A, and why you might have different bass management configurations for each slot. During this phase, I agree, keeping everything in order can be a challenge. But once you have completed the experimentation phase, it will get simpler, I promise. I have a lot of respect for anyone who has the patience to find the best solution!

And I certainly agree with and respect your opinion on staying with the Denon. My Marantz 8802A has been a fine processor, and I have no plans to replace it any time soon. And you are correct, one of the biggest selling points of the 88A is to separate the room correction technology from the processor choice. For anyone who can deal with a bit of complexity, it is still a great choice.
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post #15350 of 16788 Old 05-31-2018, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
I've had a look at the DDRC88BM configuration files:-

I've also added a 120Hz LPF for LFE in unit #1 - but this is only required if you can disable or set the AVR LPF-LFE as high as possible (my Denon allows up to 250Hz)

Have a look, see what you think, regards, Mike.
Hi Mike, perhaps you could clarify the rationale for why setting the LPF of LFE at 250Hz in the Denon, and at 120Hz in the 88-1 was recommended?

@AustinJerry - I have snapped a section from my previous PDF and attached / highlighted the relevant sections.

Thanks,
Attached Thumbnails
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post #15351 of 16788 Old 05-31-2018, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by wl1 View Post

@AustinJerry - I have snapped a section from my previous PDF and attached / highlighted the relevant sections.

Thanks,
What is that PDF? Perhaps you could post a copy of the whole PDF so I could look at it and have it for future reference? Thanks.
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post #15352 of 16788 Old 05-31-2018, 06:56 AM
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I wanted to jump in this thread to say thank you for all the sage advice I have gleaned from it. I am not using the DDRC-88A, but I am using Dirac Live via my AudioControl Maestro M9.

I'm continually impressed with the vast knowledge of this forum. I have learned how to create custom target curves from here and how to understand the measurements taken from DRC.

Thank you again.
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post #15353 of 16788 Old 05-31-2018, 09:48 AM
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What is that PDF? Perhaps you could post a copy of the whole PDF so I could look at it and have it for future reference? Thanks.
It was in one of my (long) posts, so I guess you missed it (Post 15474).
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post #15354 of 16788 Old 05-31-2018, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post
Hi Mike, perhaps you could clarify the rationale for why setting the LPF of LFE at 250Hz in the Denon, and at 120Hz in the 88-1 was recommended?

@AustinJerry - I have snapped a section from my previous PDF and attached / highlighted the relevant sections.

Thanks,
Sorry for not keeping up, been busy.

I prefer to set the 'real LPF of LFE' in the DDRC88BM - as it keeps all the settings in one place. REW testing showed me that setting my Denon to LPF of LFE at 250Hz, effectively means it does nothing - it's high enough to have no effect.
The advantage to me was that at the time there was a lot of discussion about experimenting with lower settings of the LPF of LFE - as some posters had found higher frequency 'rubbish' in the LFE tracks, and having the LPF set at 120Hz allowed this to be audible (and the subs locatable as a result). Others simply found LPF of 80Hz or 100Hz to be preferable. I decided to experiment - and the DDRC88BM seemed the best place, hence my advice.
I still have my LPF set to 100Hz - in the DDRC88BM.
Regards, Mike.
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post #15355 of 16788 Old 05-31-2018, 11:36 AM
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stuart has informed me that many of my old “calibration crazed” friends have moved well past me over the last 5 years and assembled here, so here i am to learn.

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post #15356 of 16788 Old 05-31-2018, 11:39 AM
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stuart has informed me that many of my old “calibration crazed” friends have moved well past me over the last 5 years and assembled here, so here i am to learn.
Wow, Chris, who woke you up from your nap? What are you here to learn about? Are you sure you aren’t getting too old to learn new tricks?
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post #15357 of 16788 Old 05-31-2018, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
Sorry for not keeping up, been busy.

I prefer to set the 'real LPF of LFE' in the DDRC88BM - as it keeps all the settings in one place. REW testing showed me that setting my Denon to LPF of LFE at 250Hz, effectively means it does nothing - it's high enough to have no effect.
The advantage to me was that at the time there was a lot of discussion about experimenting with lower settings of the LPF of LFE - as some posters had found higher frequency 'rubbish' in the LFE tracks, and having the LPF set at 120Hz allowed this to be audible (and the subs locatable as a result). Others simply found LPF of 80Hz or 100Hz to be preferable. I decided to experiment - and the DDRC88BM seemed the best place, hence my advice.
I still have my LPF set to 100Hz - in the DDRC88BM.
Regards, Mike.
Yes, I believe it was Roger Dressler who recommended setting the LPF lower to filter out unwanted “noise” that had crept into the LFE tracks on some music sources. I definitely recall doing REW measurements with LFP’s set in both the AVR and the 88A. The cascaded LPF’s made the LFE response curve worse. I don’t recall for sure whether the AVR LPF had been raised to 250Hz or not. Perhaps next time you are doing REW measurements, you can run a quick check. Since the AVR LPF cannot be defeated, I found that setting it to 120Hz in the AVR and bypassing it in the 88A produced the best results. YMMV.
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post #15358 of 16788 Old 05-31-2018, 11:51 AM
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It was in one of my (long) posts, so I guess you missed it (Post 15474).
Thanks. Has the “center channel bug” been reported to and acknowledged by MiniDSP? Can you provide a brief description of what the bug is again?
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post #15359 of 16788 Old 05-31-2018, 12:09 PM
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Wow, Chris, who woke you up from your nap? What are you here to learn about? Are you sure you aren’t getting too old to learn new tricks?
If he’s not going to get a Trinnov 😜, and just bought a new Denon for his 5.1 setup, this is the next best thing, especially given that he has your guides and the usual suspects here as a starting point 😎 .
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post #15360 of 16788 Old 05-31-2018, 12:15 PM
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Thanks. Has the “center channel bug” been reported to and acknowledged by MiniDSP? Can you provide a brief description of what the bug is again?
The correct description would be “Subwoofer checkbox” bug. The problem comes when the Channel 3 checkbox for Subwoofer is deselected. The software allows measures, optimisation etc to all occur. Following closing of the DLCT App, and consequently going in to make further Target changes - the software has the Check Box enabled for Channel 3 again, AND reports a change of Configuration. This results in the software Not allowing the use of the Measurements again...so, kind of very limiting to anything other than running it all in one session.

MiniDSP acknowledged this, but say it will not likely be fixed in the short term as there are little to no other changes in the pipeline.

I asked what were the major changes in rolling back, and it amounted to the Activation changes and a Logo, so nothing functional.

(I mis-called it the Centre Channel bug because it affected my Centre Channel).

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