**miniDSP DDRC-88A Official Thread**8-channel AI/AO Dirac Live in a box - Page 536 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16051 of 16629 Old 12-08-2018, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MBrown2020 View Post
Keith,

I was just thinking and was wondering if this approach would be valid according to your 2-88a guide.


1) I use two laptops, connected to each unit at the same time using DLCT on each unit.
2) Take measurement 1 on unit #2 , then move usb mic to laptop #1 and repeat the measurement.
3) Connect mic back to laptop #2 , move the mic to position 2, take another measurement.
4) Move mic back to laptop #1 and repeat.
-This would ensure both calibrations happened at same time in the exact same mic positions for each unit, right?


What do you think? Would this possibly work? Should I just do 2 separate calibrations like your guide states? Thanks!
Not Keith, but also not sure why you are re-inventing the wheel. The procedure published by Keith has received extensive peer review, and has been implemented by a number of 88a users. Is there something about the approach that makes you uncomfortable?

Besides, I am not sure you can disconnect the mic from one laptop running DLCT without causing DLCT to hang or crash. You might want to try seeing what disconnecting a mic in the middle of a calibration does to DLCT.
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post #16052 of 16629 Old 12-08-2018, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Not Keith, but also not sure why you are re-inventing the wheel. The procedure published by Keith has received extensive peer review, and has been implemented by a number of 88a users. Is there something about the approach that makes you uncomfortable?

Besides, I am not sure you can disconnect the mic from one laptop running DLCT without causing DLCT to hang or crash. You might want to try seeing what disconnecting a mic in the middle of a calibration does to DLCT.

I understand that. It wasn't meant to re-invent the wheel. I was just thinking on maybe improving on the procedure (not that it needed it), just brainstorming. When I have both units ready I could try it to see if it is feasible, just wondering if would work.

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post #16053 of 16629 Old 12-08-2018, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MBrown2020 View Post
I understand that. It wasn't meant to re-invent the wheel. I was just thinking on maybe improving on the procedure (not that it needed it), just brainstorming. When I have both units ready I could try it to see if it is feasible, just wondering if would work.
Nothing wrong with being creative. Good luck.
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post #16054 of 16629 Old 12-10-2018, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by MBrown2020 View Post
Keith,

I was just thinking and was wondering if this approach would be valid according to your 2-88a guide.


1) I use two laptops, connected to each unit at the same time using DLCT on each unit.
2) Take measurement 1 on unit #2 , then move usb mic to laptop #1 and repeat the measurement.
3) Connect mic back to laptop #2 , move the mic to position 2, take another measurement.
4) Move mic back to laptop #1 and repeat.
-This would ensure both calibrations happened at same time in the exact same mic positions for each unit, right?


What do you think? Would this possibly work? Should I just do 2 separate calibrations like your guide states? Thanks!
I agree with Jerry. I can't quite get the point of the mic being in the exact same position (other than the first, which is covered by my procedure) for both sets of speakers. The mic positions are not critical (other than the first) and when one set of speakers is on the floor and the other set is on the ceiling, I'm not quite sure why it would matter that they share the same positions for the mic locations other than the first.

Jerry also makes a good point which had escaped me -- that the whole thing might crash when you swap the mics over.
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post #16055 of 16629 Old 12-10-2018, 05:53 AM
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hi guys, i m having a small problem and i think ive seen somehwere in this thread but cant seem to find it again.

After doing the full calibration using Austinjerry guide, my sub has around 10db boost, my question is this correctable by just lowering the sub channel by 10db or i should do the whole calibration again? i didnt have this issue before.

thanks and sorry if that has been answered before.

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post #16056 of 16629 Old 12-10-2018, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
hi guys, i m having a small problem and i think ive seen somehwere in this thread but cant seem to find it again.

After doing the full calibration using Austinjerry guide, my sub has around 10db boost, my question is this correctable by just lowering the sub channel by 10db or i should do the whole calibration again? i didnt have this issue before.

thanks and sorry if that has been answered before.
First question is, did you select “Custom” for your configuration in DLCT, or did you select 5.1 or 7.1? The latter two configurations add, by design, a 10dB LFE boost. If this is the case, then you will need to re-run the calibration and select “Custom” as you configuration.

If this is not the case, there is no reason why the bass should be elevated by 10dB.
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post #16057 of 16629 Old 12-10-2018, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
First question is, did you select “Custom” for your configuration in DLCT, or did you select 5.1 or 7.1? The latter two configurations add, by design, a 10dB LFE boost. If this is the case, then you will need to re-run the calibration and select “Custom” as you configuration.

If this is not the case, there is no reason why the bass should be elevated by 10dB.
i did select custom and then 6 channels since i have 5.1 system.

i think i might have -10db in the avr prior to calibration, but avr was actually off during the whole process, would that make a different if its not even on ?

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post #16058 of 16629 Old 12-10-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
i did select custom and then 6 channels since i have 5.1 system.

i think i might have -10db in the avr prior to calibration, but avr was actually off during the whole process, would that make a different if its not even on ?
The AVR plays no role in the calibration, whether it is off or on. Assuming you are using the default Dirac target and not some custom target with a built-in bass boost, there is no reason why your bass is elevated 10dB. How do you know it is elevated, did you measure with REW? If yes, post the REW measurements. And are you using the bass management add-in for the 88A?

Also, could you upload your Dirac project so I can download it and take a quick look? Many of us use Dropbox.com to share files.
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post #16059 of 16629 Old 12-10-2018, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The AVR plays no role in the calibration, whether it is off or on. Assuming you are using the default Dirac target and not some custom target with a built-in bass boost, there is no reason why your bass is elevated 10dB. How do you know it is elevated, did you measure with REW? If yes, post the REW measurements. And are you using the bass management add-in for the 88A?

Also, could you upload your Dirac project so I can download it and take a quick look? Many of us use Dropbox.com to share files.
i noticed its way too loud and rattling, so i checked using REW all my speakers levels and they were all spot on at 75db except the sub at 85db , once i dialed it down it sounded a lot better, i m creating a dropbox account to share it with u now, and yes i have the bass management add-on and trying to use it following ur guide but the basic stuff.

edit: this is the link for the dirac file : https://www.dropbox.com/s/imhj38tpj1...ting.dprj?dl=0

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post #16060 of 16629 Old 12-10-2018, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
i noticed its way too loud and rattling, so i checked using REW all my speakers levels and they were all spot on at 75db except the sub at 85db , once i dialed it down it sounded a lot better, i m creating a dropbox account to share it with u now, and yes i have the bass management add-on and trying to use it following ur guide but the basic stuff.
There is nothing unusual in the Dirac measurement of the sub response, clearly nothing that indicates a 10dB bass boost.

I suspect you have an incorrect setting in the bass management implementation. Try this:

- Switch to an unused preset on the 88A, one that has no bass management configured.
- Test to see if the sub channel still has the 10dB bass boost.
- Check to make sure all of your speakers are set to "Large" in the AVR.

Finally, if you still can't figure it out, take screenshots of each of the screens on the 88A and post them here so we can review how you set bass management up. Also, post a snapshot of the sub channel REW measurement. Something is wrong, and we will figure it out.
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post #16061 of 16629 Old 12-10-2018, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
There is nothing unusual in the Dirac measurement of the sub response, clearly nothing that indicates a 10dB bass boost.

I suspect you have an incorrect setting in the bass management implementation. Try this:

- Switch to an unused preset on the 88A, one that has no bass management configured.
- Test to see if the sub channel still has the 10dB bass boost.
- Check to make sure all of your speakers are set to "Large" in the AVR.

Finally, if you still can't figure it out, take screenshots of each of the screens on the 88A and post them here so we can review how you set bass management up. Also, post a snapshot of the sub channel REW measurement. Something is wrong, and we will figure it out.
thanks alot for ur help and putting up with our questions,

My speakers are set to large and distance 0.3m on all speakers since thats the lowest the avr go.

that is a pic of REW sub measurement, i did try using an unused preset on the 88A and it was actually even louder and REW didnt even finish the measurement, i think i should re measure everything cause i never had this issue before.

tomorrow ill remeasure since its pretty late here and will post the result, if the issue persist i ll post screenshots of each of the screens on the 88A.
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post #16062 of 16629 Old 12-10-2018, 06:30 PM
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I suspect something is wrong with your configuration in bass management. What brand AVR are you using that doesn’t allow the distances to be set to zero? Regardless, if the lowest setting is .3, this doesn’t matter as long as all speakers are set to the same value. Let’s take a look at the 88a screenshots tomorrow.
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post #16063 of 16629 Old 12-11-2018, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I suspect something is wrong with your configuration in bass management. What brand AVR are you using that doesn’t allow the distances to be set to zero? Regardless, if the lowest setting is .3, this doesn’t matter as long as all speakers are set to the same value. Let’s take a look at the 88a screenshots tomorrow.
i did a full measurement with dirac again today, i chose custom/6speakers and i tried unchecking the sub checkmark, after finishing and testing levels in REW , all the speakers are spot on 75db but the sub measurement still gives it a 10db boost, i m not even using 88A, just measured right after finsihing dirac calibration. couldnt i just lower the sub level by 10db and call it a day? or that is not optimal.

Also is it normal for dirac to give diffenent results each time for lower limit for correction? for example my centre speaker lower limit was 30hz one time and 80hz for the last measurement, and based on ur guide i should set the crossover one octave above the limit which is 160hz , would this give good result if i set crossover at 160 or is it too high?

Btw im using Yamaha Aventage 2050A AVR

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post #16064 of 16629 Old 12-11-2018, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
i did a full measurement with dirac again today, i chose custom/6speakers and i tried unchecking the sub checkmark, after finishing and testing levels in REW , all the speakers are spot on 75db but the sub measurement still gives it a 10db boost, i m not even using 88A, just measured right after finsihing dirac calibration. couldnt i just lower the sub level by 10db and call it a day? or that is not optimal.

Also is it normal for dirac to give diffenent results each time for lower limit for correction? for example my centre speaker lower limit was 30hz one time and 80hz for the last measurement, and based on ur guide i should set the crossover one octave above the limit which is 160hz , would this give good result if i set crossover at 160 or is it too high?

Btw im using Yamaha Aventage 2050A AVR
1. Unchecking the check mark that identifies the sub channel is incorrect, and will not produce a valid calibration.
2. Successive calibrations should produce consistent results. If the lower limit is significantly different from one calibration to the next, something is wrong with how you are calibrating. I just re-loaded the project file you shared yesterday, and the lower limit for the center channel is 80Hz. With the Dirac project loaded in DLCT, go to the Filter Design tab and check the “Avg spectrum (before)” button. Look at the measured center channel response. Now load the other project and do the same. Does the “before” center channel response look the same for both projects? It should look the same—if it doesn’t something is wrong. TBH, the center channel response falls off pretty rapidly below 100Hz, which is unusual and not very good.
3. You can lower the sub response by 10dB if you like. But that is simply admitting that you haven’t figured out what is going wrong.

I thought you were going to post screenshots of the 88A bass management settings. Are you not interested in getting to the bottom of your issues?
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post #16065 of 16629 Old 12-11-2018, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
1. Unchecking the check mark that identifies the sub channel is incorrect, and will not produce a valid calibration.
2. Successive calibrations should produce consistent results. If the lower limit is significantly different from one calibration to the next, something is wrong with how you are calibrating. I just re-loaded the project file you shared yesterday, and the lower limit for the center channel is 80Hz. With the Dirac project loaded in DLCT, go to the Filter Design tab and check the “Avg spectrum (before)” button. Look at the measured center channel response. Now load the other project and do the same. Does the “before” center channel response look the same for both projects? It should look the same—if it doesn’t something is wrong. TBH, the center channel response falls off pretty rapidly below 100Hz, which is unusual and not very good.
3. You can lower the sub response by 10dB if you like. But that is simply admitting that you haven’t figured out what is going wrong.

I thought you were going to post screenshots of the 88A bass management settings. Are you not interested in getting to the bottom of your issues?
of course i m interested in finding the solution, but this last calibration i reset everything in 88a and didnt use it after i finished measuring so all the settings are default, would it still affect the result if i m not using at all ?
i will redo now the whole calibration with the sub channel checked will let u know .

thanks man for helping me find the solution.

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post #16066 of 16629 Old 12-11-2018, 03:51 PM
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of course i m interested in finding the solution, but this last calibration i reset everything in 88a and didnt use it after i finished measuring so all the settings are default, would it still affect the result if i m not using at all ?
i will redo now the whole calibration with the sub channel checked will let u know .

thanks man for helping me find the solution.
I wish you would answer my questions. Did you compare the measured center channel response for the two projects with different lower limits? Were the measurements similar, or different? The answer might be a clue as to what is going on.
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post #16067 of 16629 Old 12-11-2018, 04:02 PM
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I wish you would answer my questions. Did you compare the measured center channel response for the two projects with different lower limits? Were the measurements similar, or different? The answer might be a clue as to what is going on.
yes sorry i was trying a different calibration, i did compare and they looked similar, but comparing to my 2months old calibration it looks a little different and dirac set the lower limit to 30hz for that.

EDIT: i tried checking the levels from my AVR test tones using the umik mic with rew SPL software and everything seemed fine, the sub is exactly at the same level as the speakers at 75db.

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post #16068 of 16629 Old 12-11-2018, 07:41 PM
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yes sorry i was trying a different calibration, i did compare and they looked similar, but comparing to my 2months old calibration it looks a little different and dirac set the lower limit to 30hz for that.

EDIT: i tried checking the levels from my AVR test tones using the umik mic with rew SPL software and everything seemed fine, the sub is exactly at the same level as the speakers at 75db.
I am confused now. The sub is measuring the same level? What happened to the 10dB boost you reported earlier?
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post #16069 of 16629 Old 12-11-2018, 07:46 PM
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@tnaik4 , do you have "Extra Bass" enabled in the options menu?


If so, disable it and try it again.

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post #16070 of 16629 Old 12-12-2018, 01:58 AM
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I am confused now. The sub is measuring the same level? What happened to the 10dB boost you reported earlier?
Sorry for the confusion, let me clarify.
When i use REW generator and SPL to measure to check the speaker levels, the sub always is 10db louder @85db.

So i thought about trying the AVR built in generator and everything seems to be in line ( speakers and sub are @75db ).

i dont know why its different from REW to AVR built in generator.

i m using "Pink Noise" with "sub cal" for sub measurement in REW.

@ceh383 no i dont have "Extra Bass" enabled.

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post #16071 of 16629 Old 12-12-2018, 06:43 AM
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Sorry for the confusion, let me clarify.
When i use REW generator and SPL to measure to check the speaker levels, the sub always is 10db louder @85db.

So i thought about trying the AVR built in generator and everything seems to be in line ( speakers and sub are @75db ).

i dont know why its different from REW to AVR built in generator.

i m using "Pink Noise" with "sub cal" for sub measurement in REW.

thanks
In the REW signal generator, are you using HDMI4 to send the signal to the sub? If yes, it is a known fact that REW outputs the LFE signal at +10dB. This is by design and is documented not only in the Guide, but discussed many times here in this thread.
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In the REW signal generator, are you using HDMI4 to send the signal to the sub? If yes, it is a known fact that REW outputs the LFE signal at +10dB. This is by design and is documented not only in the Guide, but discussed many times here in this thread.
in the REW signal generator, i have to chose High Definition Audio 4 to send the signal to the sub, i m sorry if that is the case since i didnt read the whole thread and only followed ur dirac calibration guide not the REW guide, sorry again if i missed it.

Also if i may ask , from looking at the file i sent you, what would u chose the crossover for my system to input in the 88A bass management.

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post #16073 of 16629 Old 12-12-2018, 02:43 PM
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in the REW signal generator, i have to chose High Definition Audio 4 to send the signal to the sub, i m sorry if that is the case since i didnt read the whole thread and only followed ur dirac calibration guide not the REW guide, sorry again if i missed it.

Also if i may ask , from looking at the file i sent you, what would u chose the crossover for my system to input in the 88A bass management.

thanks alot.
OK, then the mystery is solved. REW signal generator sending the signal to the subs using HDMI4 has a +10dB higher level by design. Measuring mains and subs using the AVR test tones shows that all levels are matched. Don’t be concerned about not knowing about the +10dB on HDMI4–it is a mistake that many new REW users encounter.

As for the crossover, I am concerned with the rapid roll-off in the low frequencies exhibited by your main speakers. What make/model speakers are they? I can’t think of any setting that would affect the measured frequency response during the Dirac calibration. If the low end cutoff is 80Hz, that would suggest a 160Hz crossover. I am concerned that a 160Hz crossover may cause the subs to be localized. Why do you think the low end of your mains is weak?

Edit: Here is something to try: Set your crossover to several different values, say 160Hz, 140Hz, 120Hz, and 100Hz. For each crossover setting, take an REW measurement sweep 15Hz-300Hz. Publish the results with no smoothing. The purpose of this exercise is to see which crossover produces the smoothest splice between center and Subs>
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post #16074 of 16629 Old 12-12-2018, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
OK, then the mystery is solved. REW signal generator sending the signal to the subs using HDMI4 has a +10dB higher level by design. Measuring mains and subs using the AVR test tones shows that all levels are matched. Don’t be concerned about not knowing about the +10dB on HDMI4–it is a mistake that many new REW users encounter.

As for the crossover, I am concerned with the rapid roll-off in the low frequencies exhibited by your main speakers. What make/model speakers are they? I can’t think of any setting that would affect the measured frequency response during the Dirac calibration. If the low end cutoff is 80Hz, that would suggest a 160Hz crossover. I am concerned that a 160Hz crossover may cause the subs to be localized. Why do you think the low end of your mains is weak?

Edit: Here is something to try: Set your crossover to several different values, say 160Hz, 140Hz, 120Hz, and 100Hz. For each crossover setting, take an REW measurement sweep 15Hz-300Hz. Publish the results with no smoothing. The purpose of this exercise is to see which crossover produces the smoothest splice between center and Subs>
i have yamaha set: Yamaha ns-333 for fronts and surround
Yamaha ns-c444 for centre
Yamaha ns-sw700 SUB

I m not sure if that is the capabilities of this set but previous calibration couple of months ago showed better graph without such a decline below 100hz, here is a picture of that center channel calibration, so maybe my room is very bad or the speaker is actually getting worse.

edit: i m about to do what u suggested and ill post the results.
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Last edited by tnaik4; 12-12-2018 at 03:35 PM.
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post #16075 of 16629 Old 12-12-2018, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Edit: Here is something to try: Set your crossover to several different values, say 160Hz, 140Hz, 120Hz, and 100Hz. For each crossover setting, take an REW measurement sweep 15Hz-300Hz. Publish the results with no smoothing. The purpose of this exercise is to see which crossover produces the smoothest splice between center and Subs>
AustinJerry just to be clear u want me to measure the center channel at those frequencies or centre + sub or sub alone, and in 88A can i input the frequencies in the "LFE mgt" tab for the center channel alone or i have to do it for all speakers.

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post #16076 of 16629 Old 12-12-2018, 04:18 PM
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The NS-333 is rated down to 65Hz, which is consistent with your measurements. Let’s see what the various crossover measurements reveal.
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post #16077 of 16629 Old 12-12-2018, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The NS-333 is rated down to 65Hz, which is consistent with your measurements. Let’s see what the various crossover measurements reveal.
i m not sure what speakers should i chose in REW for the measurement, if u can let me know plz so i dont measure the incorrect one.
ill do all the measurements tomorrow since its getting late here and ill post so u can give it a look.

thanks for ur constant help.

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post #16078 of 16629 Old 12-12-2018, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
i m not sure what speakers should i chose in REW for the measurement, if u can let me know plz so i dont measure the incorrect one.
ill do all the measurements tomorrow since its getting late here and ill post so u can give it a look.

thanks for ur constant help.
Measure center + sub (HDMI3), with the crossovers set in the 88A bass management.
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post #16079 of 16629 Old 12-18-2018, 12:57 PM
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post #16080 of 16629 Old 12-19-2018, 04:40 AM
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But no mention of support in the 88a.
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