**miniDSP DDRC-88A Official Thread**8-channel AI/AO Dirac Live in a box - Page 537 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 3870Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #16081 of 16629 Old 12-19-2018, 04:03 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,461
Mentioned: 374 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11003 Post(s)
Liked: 6567
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
But no mention of support in the 88a.
True, time will tell. But those of us with multiple subs are already getting good results by using the MiniDSP 2x4 to consolidate the sub signals, and the bass management module to fine-tune the results. We will see whether the Dirac sub management upgrade actually can achieve a better job. Let’s hope so, and that the upgrade, as well as Dirac 2.0, becomes available on our 88A’s.
AustinJerry is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #16082 of 16629 Old 12-21-2018, 08:24 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 933 Post(s)
Liked: 271
Quote:
AustinJerry
, I have a very interesting question for you. First, allow me to explain the reason of asking question.

From time to time, when I do the calibration, My L/R end up having a reverse phase. I can see that in Dirac as well as REW. You might think that the wires are not connected properly but that's not the case. Even when I see the Pre readings in Dirac, it shows that all speakers have same phase but after optimizing, it flips the phase of L/R only (again not all the time but sometimes). Not sure what drives it to do that. I have the project if you need to see it yourself that I can upload for you?

Now the question. Since its well established that its the very first reading at MLP that Dirac uses to determine distance/delays/phase, would it not make sense to just delete the first reading and retake it instead of taking all 9 points again when I run into this phase issue? Here are the steps I'm thinking of in case of phase issues.

1 - Relaunch Dirac software
2 - Load the project
3 - setup mic level (as we usually do)
4 - To go measurement section and delete first reading
5 - Retake first reading
6 - Optimize and check to see if issue resolved.
7 - Save if all good.

What do you think?
harrisu is online now  
post #16083 of 16629 Old 12-21-2018, 10:14 AM
Senior Member
 
FargateOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 226
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Liked: 29
something here:


https://live.dirac.com/changelog/

My system 5.1 :ROTEL RSX-1562 /Fronts: B & W 804 D2; surround : B&W 704 and center B&W HTM4d2 /sub SVS PC 2000 / TV Samsung UN55ES8000
/BD player Cambridge CXU/ set-top (cable box) rented from cable co. PEQ by nanoAvr-DL Dirac Live between CXU and receiver
Bis Audio cables and power bar from the wall to the receiver
My room:15'4" x 11' 6" x 7'6" tv near the center of the long side wall
FargateOne is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #16084 of 16629 Old 12-21-2018, 11:33 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 933 Post(s)
Liked: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by FargateOne View Post
is the new version available for minidsp-88a users as well?
harrisu is online now  
post #16085 of 16629 Old 12-21-2018, 12:45 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,461
Mentioned: 374 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11003 Post(s)
Liked: 6567
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
is the new version available for minidsp-88a users as well?
No news as to whether it will ever be available on the 88A, or whether MiniDSP is developing a new product to support Dirac 2.0. Historically, MiniDSP does not make advance announcements about what is under development. Think about what a company like Emotiva does, making advance announcements and taking forever to actually deliver the new product.
stef2 and harrisu like this.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #16086 of 16629 Old 12-21-2018, 12:49 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,461
Mentioned: 374 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11003 Post(s)
Liked: 6567
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
, I have a very interesting question for you. First, allow me to explain the reason of asking question.

From time to time, when I do the calibration, My L/R end up having a reverse phase. I can see that in Dirac as well as REW. You might think that the wires are not connected properly but that's not the case. Even when I see the Pre readings in Dirac, it shows that all speakers have same phase but after optimizing, it flips the phase of L/R only (again not all the time but sometimes). Not sure what drives it to do that. I have the project if you need to see it yourself that I can upload for you?

Now the question. Since its well established that its the very first reading at MLP that Dirac uses to determine distance/delays/phase, would it not make sense to just delete the first reading and retake it instead of taking all 9 points again when I run into this phase issue? Here are the steps I'm thinking of in case of phase issues.

1 - Relaunch Dirac software
2 - Load the project
3 - setup mic level (as we usually do)
4 - To go measurement section and delete first reading
5 - Retake first reading
6 - Optimize and check to see if issue resolved.
7 - Save if all good.

What do you think?
No idea why your left and right speakers end up out of phase, or why it would by an intermittent problem.

Whether Dirac will allow you to delete and re-run the first measurement while keeping the rest of the project intact, I don’t know. It should be pretty easy to try. Let us know whether it works or not.

Another approach that I know will work is to take the first measurement, save the project, and check the left/right polarity. If it is OK, you can load the project and pick up where you left off, taking measurements 2 thru 9. If the left/right speakers have opposite polarity, throw out the project and start over.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #16087 of 16629 Old 12-21-2018, 04:01 PM
Senior Member
 
MBrown2020's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 224
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post
Did you read the screenshot I posted in post 16105? It references post 15492 - and explains why unchecking the sub woofer box is very limiting in practice.

The PDF I posted in 15807 shows the Software you need to be 1.1.0 in the "Notes". You can request it from MiniDSP.

I was assured there was very little difference between latest software and 1.1.0 (e.g logo, IIRC).



I got the software from miniDSP, but now I get a "validate" dialog asking for username and password. Where do you get that information from?


EDIT: Nevermind, I figured it out.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Validate.png
Views:	41
Size:	166.8 KB
ID:	2499608  

Display: LG 65" OLED C7P + OPPO UDP-203 4K UHD Blu-ray Player
Processor: Marantz AV8802a & Dual DDRC-88a BM 7.4.4 ATMOS Setup
Speakers: L,R,SR,SL,SBR,SBL - B&W 685s2's + Center - B&W HTM61s2 + Front & Rear Heights - B&W 686s2's
Amps: (3) Marantz MA700's + (8) Marantz MA500's Subs: (4) SVS PC-2000's

Last edited by MBrown2020; 12-21-2018 at 04:29 PM.
MBrown2020 is offline  
post #16088 of 16629 Old 12-24-2018, 08:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 933 Post(s)
Liked: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
No idea why your left and right speakers end up out of phase, or why it would by an intermittent problem.

Whether Dirac will allow you to delete and re-run the first measurement while keeping the rest of the project intact, I don’t know. It should be pretty easy to try. Let us know whether it works or not.

Another approach that I know will work is to take the first measurement, save the project, and check the left/right polarity. If it is OK, you can load the project and pick up where you left off, taking measurements 2 thru 9. If the left/right speakers have opposite polarity, throw out the project and start over.
So I tried by reloading the project and deleting the first measurement and taking it again. It did fix the phase issue. So does it work??? Yes it does. The only issue with the approach was that when I took impulse response, L/R were just a bit off from C. Like very little. Same phase but were were off just by a very small margin. Generally,all of my speakers are 100% aligned in impulse response in REW. I really don't know if one can hear the diff but you know we are OCD here right. So I took 9 points again and all fine.

Just an FYI on your approach: You said and check LR/C polarity after first reading. Save is not required to check this. We can just optimize and then see it right away. Just an FYI.
harrisu is online now  
post #16089 of 16629 Old 12-24-2018, 08:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 933 Post(s)
Liked: 271
@AustinJerry , I'd like to share with you another finding. One might say that my finding is subjective but I'll share regardless . I have always very much appreciated how Dialog sounds with Dirac. I mean its just too darn good. So clean and crisp and right in you face. But for the past few months the dialog wasn't coming as good as it used to. The change in the system I made was to add the backing cloth behind my AT perf screen. My LR face MLP behind the screen. When I run Dirac for measurement, My C is always 1.4dB more that L/R based on what it shows in Output & Level. After 9 point calibration, when I check L/C/R, they are all spot on. Dirac takes care of leveling them.
Now I know that here, its adviced not to mess around with individual volume knob. But since I wasn't feeling as good about my center channel. I gave it a shot. Adjusted volume know on C to reduce it by 1.4dB to mach all other speakers 100%. Took 9 points and woalla. My Center channel is exactly how I wanted it to. I just sooooo amazinggggg. The dialog so crystal clear. Totally loving the results.
I follow the same steps when I take the measurements so I don't think it had anything to do with how I took the measurements. I'll leave it up to you to decide if it had anything to do with adjusting C by 1.4dB in Output & Level or I'm just hallucinating. I think you are going to go with the later option
harrisu is online now  
post #16090 of 16629 Old 12-24-2018, 11:59 AM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,461
Mentioned: 374 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11003 Post(s)
Liked: 6567
Sorry, I have no insight to add.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #16091 of 16629 Old 12-29-2018, 04:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jpco's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 2,774
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 654 Post(s)
Liked: 303
Question Scary noise and then failure

Last night, as I was watching a football game at low volume, my 88A put out a non-stop high pitched screeching static at full volume to all of my speakers. It scared the heck out of me. Not knowing what the problem was, I rushed up to turn off the AVR, and the sound continued. I turned off the amps, and the static sound continued to come out of the subs. The sound was not harsh coming from the subs, so I waited a bit to see if it would stop. It did not. I unplugged the 88A, waited 10 seconds, and plugged it back in. No more noise, but no more output either. I tried refreshing the DSP, but there was no change.

I was so rattled that I didn’t want to troubleshoot anymore and just took the 88A out of my system. The volume of the static was as loud as when I had mistakenly run the speaker level tone or a sweep with the 88A at full volume. If you haven’t done that, it is REALLY loud. I was sure it must have blown some speakers, but it did not.

I’ve had the 88A since April of 2015 and later added the BM module. It’s on the latest firmware, and I leave the unit on all the time. In the first year I had it, the fuse blew twice, but no problems in th past two years. I hadn’t completed a new measurement since February of 2017. All was well.

Has anyone experienced anything like this before? Right now, I’m ready to write this unit off, but I was wondering if anyone had ideas about what went wrong.
jpco is offline  
post #16092 of 16629 Old 12-29-2018, 04:39 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,461
Mentioned: 374 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11003 Post(s)
Liked: 6567
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpco View Post
Last night, as I was watching a football game at low volume, my 88A put out a non-stop high pitched screeching static at full volume to all of my speakers. It scared the heck out of me. Not knowing what the problem was, I rushed up to turn off the AVR, and the sound continued. I turned off the amps, and the static sound continued to come out of the subs. The sound was not harsh coming from the subs, so I waited a bit to see if it would stop. It did not. I unplugged the 88A, waited 10 seconds, and plugged it back in. No more noise, but no more output either. I tried refreshing the DSP, but there was no change.

I was so rattled that I didn’t want to troubleshoot anymore and just took the 88A out of my system. The volume of the static was as loud as when I had mistakenly run the speaker level tone or a sweep with the 88A at full volume. If you haven’t done that, it is REALLY loud. I was sure it must have blown some speakers, but it did not.

I’ve had the 88A since April of 2015 and later added the BM module. It’s on the latest firmware, and I leave the unit on all the time. In the first year I had it, the fuse blew twice, but no problems in th past two years. I hadn’t completed a new measurement since February of 2017. All was well.

Has anyone experienced anything like this before? Right now, I’m ready to write this unit off, but I was wondering if anyone had ideas about what went wrong.
I have never experienced this, but it sounds serious. If it were me, I would attempt to re-load the firmware from scratch to see if you can clear up the problem. It is at least reporting to MiniDSP Support to see what they recommend. Good luck, and let us know what happens.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #16093 of 16629 Old 12-30-2018, 01:07 AM
Member
 
astr0b0y's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpco View Post
Last night, as I was watching a football game at low volume, my 88A put out a non-stop high pitched screeching static at full volume to all of my speakers. It scared the heck out of me. Not knowing what the problem was, I rushed up to turn off the AVR, and the sound continued. I turned off the amps, and the static sound continued to come out of the subs. The sound was not harsh coming from the subs, so I waited a bit to see if it would stop. It did not. I unplugged the 88A, waited 10 seconds, and plugged it back in. No more noise, but no more output either. I tried refreshing the DSP, but there was no change.

I was so rattled that I didn’t want to troubleshoot anymore and just took the 88A out of my system. The volume of the static was as loud as when I had mistakenly run the speaker level tone or a sweep with the 88A at full volume. If you haven’t done that, it is REALLY loud. I was sure it must have blown some speakers, but it did not.

I’ve had the 88A since April of 2015 and later added the BM module. It’s on the latest firmware, and I leave the unit on all the time. In the first year I had it, the fuse blew twice, but no problems in th past two years. I hadn’t completed a new measurement since February of 2017. All was well.

Has anyone experienced anything like this before? Right now, I’m ready to write this unit off, but I was wondering if anyone had ideas about what went wrong.
I experienced this a number of times with my 88A. I contacted miniDSP support who suggested that I may be overloading the DSP because I wasn’t reducing the input gain of each filtered channel being sent to the subs. I also had mistakenly set my target curve of my sub channel the same as my centre channel - flat out to 20k. However even after addressing these points I still had a couple of occurances of the very loud static plus also random squeals from one channel, always when listening at low volumes. I think the fix for me was to reset everything, reflash firmware and redo Dirac calibrations.
astr0b0y is offline  
post #16094 of 16629 Old 12-30-2018, 06:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jpco's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 2,774
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 654 Post(s)
Liked: 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I have never experienced this, but it sounds serious. If it were me, I would attempt to re-load the firmware from scratch to see if you can clear up the problem. It is at least reporting to MiniDSP Support to see what they recommend. Good luck, and let us know what happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by astr0b0y View Post
I experienced this a number of times with my 88A. I contacted miniDSP support who suggested that I may be overloading the DSP because I wasn’t reducing the input gain of each filtered channel being sent to the subs. I also had mistakenly set my target curve of my sub channel the same as my centre channel - flat out to 20k. However even after addressing these points I still had a couple of occurances of the very loud static plus also random squeals from one channel, always when listening at low volumes. I think the fix for me was to reset everything, reflash firmware and redo Dirac calibrations.
Thanks for the replies. I’ve been using AVR bass management, so there should not be any overload. I’ll give the reset/reload a shot. This is not something I want to experience again.
jpco is offline  
post #16095 of 16629 Old 12-30-2018, 03:17 PM
Advanced Member
 
AV_mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 590
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 237 Post(s)
Liked: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpco View Post
Thanks for the replies. I’ve been using AVR bass management, so there should not be any overload. I’ll give the reset/reload a shot. This is not something I want to experience again.
I too have experienced a very loud tone from one channel. I quickly shutdown the power amps, then cautiously turned them back on, only to immediately get the same tone. I then power cycled the MiniDSP and the problem disappeared. It has never reoccurred, but I do occasionally power cycle the MiniDSP, otherwise it would be powered continuously- and I prefer that processors do get the occasional reset.
Regards Mike

System: Pioneer KRP-500M, Lumagen Mini3D, Denon AVR-4520 (custom modified to allow use of >>>), miniDSP DDRC88BM, Oppo 103EU, Sky+HD DRX895, Humax HDR-FOX-T2 (x2), Apple ATV3
Bowers & Wilkins CM8 (left & right) - CMC2 (centre) - Kef HTS3001SE Surrounds, miniDSP 2x4HD, SVS SB13 Ultra, SVS SB2000 (x2) <<< Perfectly blended by MSO
AV_mike is offline  
post #16096 of 16629 Old 12-30-2018, 05:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jpco's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 2,774
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 654 Post(s)
Liked: 303
I’ve reset the unit in all ways I could and reflashed the firmware twice. Everything looks right and functions on the software side and the front panel functions as it should, but no input signal is detected and nothing is output from the unit, including test tones. I’ll contact MiniDSP, but it seems like whatever happened killed the functionality of the unit.
jpco is offline  
post #16097 of 16629 Old 12-30-2018, 06:11 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,461
Mentioned: 374 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11003 Post(s)
Liked: 6567
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpco View Post
I’ve reset the unit in all ways I could and reflashed the firmware twice. Everything looks right and functions on the software side and the front panel functions as it should, but no input signal is detected and nothing is output from the unit, including test tones. I’ll contact MiniDSP, but it seems like whatever happened killed the functionality of the unit.
Too bad. Let us know what you find out. This happens sometimes.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #16098 of 16629 Old 01-03-2019, 05:16 PM
Senior Member
 
MBrown2020's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 224
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Liked: 31
@AustinJerry @Roger Dressler


How would I go about doing the gain management step when doing bass management in the AVR and not in the BM.
I'm basically splitting the 2nd 88a in half using the 1st 4 slots for Atmos heights and the last 4 slots as a 2x4 to time align my 4 subs (See pic).


1)Would I use REW to output 0dBFS signal like in the guide (Say trim could be +10dB) and then compensate the added trim levels with the output tab of the BM (-10dB)???


Thanks for any help.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DUAL-88A.png
Views:	36
Size:	11.9 KB
ID:	2505316  

Display: LG 65" OLED C7P + OPPO UDP-203 4K UHD Blu-ray Player
Processor: Marantz AV8802a & Dual DDRC-88a BM 7.4.4 ATMOS Setup
Speakers: L,R,SR,SL,SBR,SBL - B&W 685s2's + Center - B&W HTM61s2 + Front & Rear Heights - B&W 686s2's
Amps: (3) Marantz MA700's + (8) Marantz MA500's Subs: (4) SVS PC-2000's
MBrown2020 is offline  
post #16099 of 16629 Old 01-03-2019, 08:40 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,449
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2925 Post(s)
Liked: 1681
Quote:
Originally Posted by MBrown2020 View Post
How would I go about doing the gain management step when doing bass management in the AVR and not in the BM.

1)Would I use REW to output 0dBFS signal like in the guide (Say trim could be +10dB) and then compensate the added trim levels with the output tab of the BM (-10dB)???
When doing bass management in the AVR, the max level at the sub output would be approx 10 dB higher than you can generate in the LFE channel alone (at 0 dBFS).

So I would set the gain trim in the AVR's subwoofer out to +10, feed the 0 dBFS LFE signal, adjust the 88a input sensitivity to hit no higher than 0 dBFS, then reduce the AVR subwoofer output trim to 0 dB (10 dB reduction).

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win7 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is online now  
post #16100 of 16629 Old 01-04-2019, 02:36 PM
Senior Member
 
MBrown2020's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 224
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
When doing bass management in the AVR, the max level at the sub output would be approx 10 dB higher than you can generate in the LFE channel alone (at 0 dBFS).

Wouldn't it be closer to 13dB because this is a 11.1 Atmos setup??
11 channels : Total voltage is 1 + (11*0.316) = 1 + 3.476 = 4.476V. 20log(4.476) = 13.01dB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
So I would set the gain trim in the AVR's subwoofer out to +10, feed the 0 dBFS LFE signal, adjust the 88a input sensitivity to hit no higher than 0 dBFS, then reduce the AVR subwoofer output trim to 0 dB (10 dB reduction).

-what do you mean by "adjust the 88a input sensitivity." I am using RCA unbalanced set to 2V currently.

Display: LG 65" OLED C7P + OPPO UDP-203 4K UHD Blu-ray Player
Processor: Marantz AV8802a & Dual DDRC-88a BM 7.4.4 ATMOS Setup
Speakers: L,R,SR,SL,SBR,SBL - B&W 685s2's + Center - B&W HTM61s2 + Front & Rear Heights - B&W 686s2's
Amps: (3) Marantz MA700's + (8) Marantz MA500's Subs: (4) SVS PC-2000's

Last edited by MBrown2020; 01-04-2019 at 02:43 PM.
MBrown2020 is offline  
post #16101 of 16629 Old 01-05-2019, 04:12 PM
Senior Member
 
MBrown2020's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 224
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Managed to do an dual 88-a Atmos calibration today, finally. Everything seemed to go well, nothing stood out as bad. Will test out with the wife's Lion King 4k/Atmos Blu tonight.


Here are the 2 projects: https://www.dropbox.com/s/syegqv2bem3cni9/01-05-2019%20-%20Atmos%2012%20Channels.zip?dl=1


Did Audyssey Pro calibration to align the two units(See Pic)
-Entered 49.9ft for Unit #1 in 8802a

-Entered 32.1ft for Unit #2 in 8802a
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Audyssey Distances(ft) - 01-05-2019.png
Views:	62
Size:	212.4 KB
ID:	2506380  

Display: LG 65" OLED C7P + OPPO UDP-203 4K UHD Blu-ray Player
Processor: Marantz AV8802a & Dual DDRC-88a BM 7.4.4 ATMOS Setup
Speakers: L,R,SR,SL,SBR,SBL - B&W 685s2's + Center - B&W HTM61s2 + Front & Rear Heights - B&W 686s2's
Amps: (3) Marantz MA700's + (8) Marantz MA500's Subs: (4) SVS PC-2000's
MBrown2020 is offline  
post #16102 of 16629 Old 01-13-2019, 12:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 933 Post(s)
Liked: 271
@AustinJerry , does it matter where the bass is boosted after calibration? I want to boost 5d. I can do it with avr or minidsp. Avr is before 88-a in chain and minidsp is after. Does it make any difference where the bass is boosted? FR looks the same in REW though.
harrisu is online now  
post #16103 of 16629 Old 01-13-2019, 01:16 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,461
Mentioned: 374 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11003 Post(s)
Liked: 6567
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
@AustinJerry , does it matter where the bass is boosted after calibration? I want to boost 5d. I can do it with avr or minidsp. Avr is before 88-a in chain and minidsp is after. Does it make any difference where the bass is boosted? FR looks the same in REW though.
Have you followed the gain management procedure for the 88A? The risk of boosting the bass signal in the AVR is that the 88A input could be over-driven. If you apply the boost in the output tab of the 88A, there is no risk of over-boosting. I have applied ~2dB bass boast, and I do it in the 88A. And if you have implemented the 88A gain management steps, then applying boost in the AVR will alter the gain management, also a bad idea.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #16104 of 16629 Old 01-13-2019, 02:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 933 Post(s)
Liked: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Have you followed the gain management procedure for the 88A? The risk of boosting the bass signal in the AVR is that the 88A input could be over-driven. If you apply the boost in the output tab of the 88A, there is no risk of over-boosting. I have applied ~2dB bass boast, and I do it in the 88A. And if you have implemented the 88A gain management steps, then applying boost in the AVR will alter the gain management, also a bad idea.
I don't use 88A bass management. Just 88-a and minidsp 2x4HD. May be I should look into it then? You heard a good difference in bass quality after switching to 88-BM?
harrisu is online now  
post #16105 of 16629 Old 01-13-2019, 02:53 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,449
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2925 Post(s)
Liked: 1681
Quote:
Originally Posted by MBrown2020 View Post
Wouldn't it be closer to 13dB because this is a 11.1 Atmos setup??
11 channels : Total voltage is 1 + (11*0.316) = 1 + 3.476 = 4.476V. 20log(4.476) = 13.01dB.
The theoretical max bass levels never occur as mixers do not load channels with full scale simultaneous coherent sine waves.

Quote:
-what do you mean by "adjust the 88a input sensitivity." I am using RCA unbalanced set to 2V currently.
Ok, so adjust the AVR subwoofer output trim to hit no higher than 0 dBFS in the 88a, then reduce it by 10 dB.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win7 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"

Last edited by Roger Dressler; 01-13-2019 at 02:58 PM.
Roger Dressler is online now  
post #16106 of 16629 Old 01-15-2019, 05:06 PM
Advanced Member
 
StevenLansing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 743
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 19
If I wanted to adjust all of my pre-amp outputs by -3dB to prevent any possibility of clipping the outputs,would there be any issue with adding back the 3dB on the output mixer of the BM?

Help put an end to the reach-around mentality and bring the "Science" back to AVS.
StevenLansing is offline  
post #16107 of 16629 Old 01-15-2019, 05:29 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,461
Mentioned: 374 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11003 Post(s)
Liked: 6567
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenLansing View Post
If I wanted to adjust all of my pre-amp outputs by -3dB to prevent any possibility of clipping the outputs,would there be any issue with adding back the 3dB on the output mixer of the BM?
I don’t think so. But the real issue is preventing clipping on the 88A inputs. Have you read the gain management section of the 88BM implementation guide linked in my sig? It requires the bass management plug-in, which is well worth its cost.

Last edited by AustinJerry; 01-16-2019 at 06:03 AM.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #16108 of 16629 Old 01-17-2019, 08:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 933 Post(s)
Liked: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Have you followed the gain management procedure for the 88A? The risk of boosting the bass signal in the AVR is that the 88A input could be over-driven. If you apply the boost in the output tab of the 88A, there is no risk of over-boosting. I have applied ~2dB bass boast, and I do it in the 88A. And if you have implemented the 88A gain management steps, then applying boost in the AVR will alter the gain management, also a bad idea.
Just implemented BM following you guide. I had the licence for like a year but didn't give it a change. Did it today and not sure what it is but Bass sounds even better. Super punchy. Boosted the bass using Output tab as well. Thx Jerry.
So far everything looks good. I didn't try to do anything different besides just setting channels as large in avr and enabling BM and setting LFE Mgm/Routing/Mixer that is mentioned in Guide. So far, very good.

Update: I do have 2 questions (you knew it was coming )

1 - In guide, you are showing how we can apply different slopes (24dB/Oct or 12 or Bassel). Should all the speakers be using same slope or we can apply different ones to L vs R vs C vs .....?
2 - Where do we define the slope for sub since its a pass through in LFE Mgt?
AustinJerry likes this.

Last edited by harrisu; 01-17-2019 at 09:20 AM.
harrisu is online now  
post #16109 of 16629 Old 01-17-2019, 11:42 AM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,461
Mentioned: 374 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11003 Post(s)
Liked: 6567
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Just implemented BM following you guide. I had the licence for like a year but didn't give it a change. Did it today and not sure what it is but Bass sounds even better. Super punchy. Boosted the bass using Output tab as well. Thx Jerry.
So far everything looks good. I didn't try to do anything different besides just setting channels as large in avr and enabling BM and setting LFE Mgm/Routing/Mixer that is mentioned in Guide. So far, very good.

Update: I do have 2 questions (you knew it was coming )

1 - In guide, you are showing how we can apply different slopes (24dB/Oct or 12 or Bassel). Should all the speakers be using same slope or we can apply different ones to L vs R vs C vs .....?
2 - Where do we define the slope for sub since its a pass through in LFE Mgt?
1 - I selected the crossover slopes based on which one gave me the smoothest response. While I have no specific facts to support my decision, I selected the same crossover slope for each speaker pair.

2 - If the sub is set to pass through in the 88A, then it has no crossover, and therefore no crossover slope. In my setup, there is a LPF for the LFE channel in the AVR which can't be turned off (set to 120Hz). I believe that crossover slopes in a Marantz are 24dB/Oct.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #16110 of 16629 Old 01-17-2019, 02:51 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 933 Post(s)
Liked: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
1 - I selected the crossover slopes based on which one gave me the smoothest response. While I have no specific facts to support my decision, I selected the same crossover slope for each speaker pair.

2 - If the sub is set to pass through in the 88A, then it has no crossover, and therefore no crossover slope. In my setup, there is a LPF for the LFE channel in the AVR which can't be turned off (set to 120Hz). I believe that crossover slopes in a Marantz are 24dB/Oct.
I use Yamaha 3050 and it doesn't have that feature as well. I took FR in REW with Sub Only/ C Only and C+S and all looks good. Exactly how I thought it'd be and expected to. Here is the interesting bit though. After I implemented BM and then took FR, it came very close to how it was before I had MB in chain but the BASS specially Mid-Bass has gone way better. Got punchier. I haven't changed anything. Same crossover of 80, Same project. All same and yes the Mid-Bass is just so much better. It always bothered me that I could hear this little bit of muddiness in in Mid-Bass area but now it simply shines. No idea why. The drum hit in songs hits straight in my chest. Very very clean.
Music --> A+. Time to try out movies and woallaaa. Same. The Mid-Bass is just so crisp. This chest impact that I wanted was there but it didn't have that punch for me and now..... AMAZING. Errrrr why didn't I use BM a year ago when I purchased it

I'd highly recommend my fellow members here to get BM and try it out. For me, it has taken the Bass in my system from 7 to 10. Just amazing results. Get BM and then simply follow Jerry guide and you should be all set
AustinJerry likes this.
harrisu is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
DDRC-88A , dirac live , minidsp , req

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off