**miniDSP DDRC-88A Official Thread**8-channel AI/AO Dirac Live in a box - Page 582 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17431 of 17482 Old 05-23-2020, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
It looks like that one has HDMI 1.4a. Not sure if there is a reason to get HDMI 2.0 for this but since it's the latest it may be worth looking into.
You are correct. I didn’t drill down into the specs on the Intel web site. HDMI 1.4a is acceptable for REW measurements. I don’t know if the OP needs the laptop for any extensive video streaming or not that might require HDMI 2.0.
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post #17432 of 17482 Old 05-23-2020, 10:06 PM
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what is the method to aviod clipping?

sometimes my sub clipped when doing calibration.
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post #17433 of 17482 Old 05-24-2020, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by beyond3r View Post
what is the method to aviod clipping?

sometimes my sub clipped when doing calibration.
Assuming you have the bass management plug-in, there is a detailed section describing gain management in the 88BM guide linked in my sig. I am also assuming that in the DLCT level-setting section, the sub channel level matched the level of the other speakers (middle of the green area).
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post #17434 of 17482 Old 05-24-2020, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Assuming you have the bass management plug-in, there is a detailed section describing gain management in the 88BM guide linked in my sig. I am also assuming that in the DLCT level-setting section, the sub channel level matched the level of the other speakers (middle of the green area).
Yes. I followed your guide on gain matching both my subs by placing umik at the distance 11% of the cone diameter. Nearfield measured at 96 db for both and MLP at 76db.

I have ensure all speakers to be at green zone -12db.

I only have clipping issue with the speaker is close to my 2and sub which is behind the sofa when I want to measure at point at back of sofa.

I found out a way to reduce this clipping issue is to reduce the sub level to slightly below -12db but of cos still in the green zone. But this way, the sub level is slightly lower than the rest of the speaker. Is there any issue?

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post #17435 of 17482 Old 05-24-2020, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by beyond3r View Post
Yes. I followed your guide on gain matching both my subs by placing umik at the distance 11% of the cone diameter. Nearfield measured at 96 db for both and MLP at 76db.

I have ensure all speakers to be at green zone -12db.

I only have clipping issue with the speaker is close to my 2and sub which is behind the sofa when I want to measure at point at back of sofa.

I found out a way to reduce this clipping issue is to reduce the sub level to slightly below -12db but of cos still in the green zone. But this way, the sub level is slightly lower than the rest of the speaker. Is there any issue?

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
The term "Gain matching" means setting output levels for each sub the same. The term "Gain Management" is a completely different concept involving adjusting gain settings on the 88A to avoid clipping. The Gain Management section in the 88BM setup guide linked in my sig starts on page 25. Did you follow that procedure?
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post #17436 of 17482 Old 05-25-2020, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The term "Gain matching" means setting output levels for each sub the same. The term "Gain Management" is a completely different concept involving adjusting gain settings on the 88A to avoid clipping. The Gain Management section in the 88BM setup guide linked in my sig starts on page 25. Did you follow that procedure?
Oh, I didnt follow that.

I just too a quick glance will need sometime to digest it.

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post #17437 of 17482 Old 05-25-2020, 06:22 AM
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Oh, I didnt follow that.

I just too a quick glance will need sometime to digest it.

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To be clear, I don’t know that gain management will solve the issue with your sub clipping or not. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the difference between the two terms. As far as whether it is OK to have one sub with a slightly lower gain setting, I am not sure that you could tell the difference. Clearly having a sub that is clipping is not desirable.
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post #17438 of 17482 Old 05-25-2020, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
To be clear, I don’t know that gain management will solve the issue with your sub clipping or not. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the difference between the two terms. As far as whether it is OK to have one sub with a slightly lower gain setting, I am not sure that you could tell the difference. Clearly having a sub that is clipping is not desirable.
It is not about one sub having slightly lower gain setting.

I have clipping issue when doing calibration which is both subs running.

When I lower by 2 db (I.e around -14db) at the DLCT level setting page, there will not be any clipping issue.

Anyway DIREC has came out with the result of -28db for my sub.

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post #17439 of 17482 Old 05-25-2020, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by beyond3r View Post
It is not about one sub having slightly lower gain setting.

I have clipping issue when doing calibration which is both subs running.

When I lower by 2 db (I.e around -14db) at the DLCT level setting page, there will not be any clipping issue.

Anyway DIREC has came out with the result of -28db for my sub.

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-28??? I have never seen a trim this low. My sub trim is usually around -4. I suspect something is wrong, but can't think of a reason why Dirac would be coming up with this result. With a trim that low, are you actually hearing sound come from the subs after the calibration has completed? Does the Dirac measurement sweep for the sub channel sound excessively loud as the calibration is being conducted?
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post #17440 of 17482 Old 05-25-2020, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
-28??? I have never seen a trim this low. My sub trim is usually around -4. I suspect something is wrong, but can't think of a reason why Dirac would be coming up with this result. With a trim that low, are you actually hearing sound come from the subs after the calibration has completed? Does the Dirac measurement sweep for the sub channel sound excessively loud as the calibration is being conducted?



Here are my results.

during Dirac measurement sweep, sub channel sounded normal and when completed the sound is normal too. nothing too soft or too loud.

im puzzled too.

PS. the input gain is slight above 0 db. i capture this just now without doing calibration.
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post #17441 of 17482 Old 05-25-2020, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by beyond3r View Post
Here are my results.

during Dirac measurement sweep, sub channel sounded normal and when completed the sound is normal too. nothing too soft or too loud.

im puzzled too.

PS. the input gain is slight above 0 db. i capture this just now without doing calibration.
If the top screenshot is the level-setting screen immediately prior to running the calibration, then you are doing things incorrectly.

First of all, the input gain is way too low. You should start the process by setting all individual channel level sliders to zero. Next, set the master output slider to its lowest setting. Then gradually raise the input gain until it just starts registering on the indicator. Typically the input gain should fall between zero and +20, closer to +20. Once the input level is set properly, start the test tone for the left channel and gradually raise the master output slider until the signal is in the middle of the green area (or -12 on the indicator). Then, without changing the input level or the master output level, check all the other channels to see if they also register close to -12. If any of the main channels are significantly lower than -12, you may use the individual channel level slider to adjust the output. Do NOT use the sub channel slider if the sub channel is higher or lower than -12--exit DLCT and adjust the sub gain matching higher or lower as required. Then start DLCT again and see if the sub level is correct. Repeat the process until the sub level reaches -12 without any adjustment in the channel level slider.

I have a calibration guide linked in my sig. Evidently you did not refer to the guide when you ran your calibration. Start over.
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post #17442 of 17482 Old 05-25-2020, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
If the top screenshot is the level-setting screen immediately prior to running the calibration, then you are doing things incorrectly.

First of all, the input gain is way too low. You should start the process by setting all individual channel level sliders to zero. Next, set the master output slider to its lowest setting. Then gradually raise the input gain until it just starts registering on the indicator. Typically the input gain should fall between zero and +20, closer to +20. Once the input level is set properly, start the test tone for the left channel and gradually raise the master output slider until the signal is in the middle of the green area (or -12 on the indicator). Then, without changing the input level or the master output level, check all the other channels to see if they also register close to -12. If any of the main channels are significantly lower than -12, you may use the individual channel level slider to adjust the output. Do NOT use the sub channel slider if the sub channel is higher or lower than -12--exit DLCT and adjust the sub gain matching higher or lower as required. Then start DLCT again and see if the sub level is correct. Repeat the process until the sub level reaches -12 without any adjustment in the channel level slider.

I have a calibration guide linked in my sig. Evidently you did not refer to the guide when you ran your calibration. Start over.
ok i will try to re-do.

anyway, i only can shift the input gain slight above 0 when it starts to register on the indicator. i am doing at at night, very quiet. i do not have any room treatment.

do u mean to start the channel volume at 0db which is the highest point??

also, how to adjust indivudal channel level when is significantly lower than -12db when the level is already at its highest point of 0db?

Last edited by beyond3r; 05-25-2020 at 08:20 AM.
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post #17443 of 17482 Old 05-25-2020, 08:19 AM
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ok i will try to re-do.

anyway, i only can shift the input gain slight above 0 when it starts to register on the indicator. i am doing at at night, very quiet. i do not have any room treatment.
Slightly above zero is OK, as long as you see it registering in the level indicator. Clearly better than all the way to the left as shown in your screenshot. And don't use the individual channel sliders unless absolutely necessary, and never for the sub channel under any circumstance.
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post #17444 of 17482 Old 05-25-2020, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Slightly above zero is OK, as long as you see it registering in the level indicator. Clearly better than all the way to the left as shown in your screenshot. And don't use the individual channel sliders unless absolutely necessary, and never for the sub channel under any circumstance.
i mentioned in my previous post that the photo shown is i taken just now without doing calibration, did not plug in the umik and ddrc88a hence all the way to the left.

i have to use individual channel slider to adjust for them to be at -12db. or is it ok that they are within the green zone, on need to be at -12db

i did sub gain matching using AVR test tones. having the avr volume at 0db and channel level setting at 0db.

using REW spl meter to check for spl.

there is some issue with my umik or REW, it is registering 80dbA or 88dbc in a quiet environment.

Last edited by beyond3r; 05-25-2020 at 09:04 AM.
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post #17445 of 17482 Old 05-25-2020, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by beyond3r View Post
i mentioned in my previous post that the photo shown is i taken just now without doing calibration, did not plug in the umik and ddrc88a hence all the way to the left.

i have to use individual channel slider to adjust for them to be at -12db. or is it ok that they are within the green zone, on need to be at -12db

i did sub gain matching using AVR test tones. having the avr volume at 0db and channel level setting at 0db.

using REW spl meter to check for spl.

there is some issue with my umik or REW, it is registering 80dbA or 88dbc in a quiet environment.
As I said, use channel volume sliders only if there is a significant difference among the speakers. If the levels are in the green, that is OK. When I gain-match my subs with the mic placed immediately in front of the dust cap, the level is usually around 95dB. The combined level reaches -12 in DLCT without using the channel adjustment.
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post #17446 of 17482 Old 05-25-2020, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
As I said, use channel volume sliders only if there is a significant difference among the speakers. If the levels are in the green, that is OK. When I gain-match my subs with the mic placed immediately in front of the dust cap, the level is usually around 95dB. The combined level reaches -12 in DLCT without using the channel adjustment.
i found out my mistake after re-read your guide.

i gain match the subs wrongly. i gain matched with the 2x4 in the chain. i should have connect directly to the sub frm avr

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post #17447 of 17482 Old 05-25-2020, 07:33 PM
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i found out my mistake after re-read your guide.

i gain match the subs wrongly. i gain matched with the 2x4 in the chain. i should have connect directly to the sub frm avr
Not sure why that would be a problem. But I suppose that depends on the settings in the 2x4. Have you re-run the Dirac calibration? If yes, can you share a screen shot of the final trims and delays? I am interested in seeing what the values for the sub channel are.
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post #17448 of 17482 Old 05-25-2020, 09:50 PM
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Not sure why that would be a problem. But I suppose that depends on the settings in the 2x4. Have you re-run the Dirac calibration? If yes, can you share a screen shot of the final trims and delays? I am interested in seeing what the values for the sub channel are.
i find that when 2x4 is in the chain, the volume is quite soft when avr volume is at 0db

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post #17449 of 17482 Old 05-26-2020, 06:21 AM
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i tried to gain match my subs at 97db each to achieve 75db at MLP using REW SPL, however when i go to DLCT channel leveling page, the indicator is over the chart.

should i gain match much lower in order for the sub indicator to show -12db without adjusting the channel volume?
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post #17450 of 17482 Old 05-26-2020, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by beyond3r View Post
i tried to gain match my subs at 97db each to achieve 75db at MLP using REW SPL, however when i go to DLCT channel leveling page, the indicator is over the chart.

should i gain match much lower in order for the sub indicator to show -12db without adjusting the channel volume?
Yes! Finding the correct gain-matched level setting that produces exactly -12 in DLCT is a trial-and-error process. The level that works for me may be too high or too low for you because of our different setups and room characteristics. Never use the individual channel adjustment for the sub channel.
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post #17451 of 17482 Old 05-26-2020, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by beyond3r View Post
i find that when 2x4 is in the chain, the volume is quite soft when avr volume is at 0db
What are your voltage settings? With proper voltage settings, the output level should not be soft. And did you implement gain management in the 88A? Something could be wrong with the gain management settings.

If using balanced connections, the 88A has an input voltage of 8v, and a selectable output voltage of 2v or 8v.

If using the balanced 2x4, the input voltage is selectable 1.8v or 4.0v, and the output is selectable 2v or 4v.

If using the unbalanced 2x4, the input is selectable .9v or 2.0v, and the output is fixed at .9v.

Please tell me your voltage settings. I know you told me which 2x4 you have, but I don't remember.
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post #17452 of 17482 Old 05-26-2020, 07:23 AM
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Yes! Finding the correct gain-matched level setting that produces exactly -12 in DLCT is a trial-and-error process. The level that works for me may be too high or too low for you because of our different setups and room characteristics. Never use the individual channel adjustment for the sub channel.
I always though is about achieving 75dB at MLP in the REW SPL.
So it's actually achieving -12dB at MLP in the DLCT level page.

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Last edited by beyond3r; 05-26-2020 at 07:37 AM.
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post #17453 of 17482 Old 05-26-2020, 07:37 AM
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here is my re-calibrated result.

any comments?
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post #17454 of 17482 Old 05-26-2020, 07:39 AM
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Yes. The objective is to give DLCT the proper sub channel level in relation to the mains. DLCT will then set the appropriate trim level as part of the calibration. Hopefully it won't be -28 this time!
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post #17455 of 17482 Old 05-26-2020, 07:39 AM
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here is my re-calibrated result.

any comments?
That looks like a perfectly normal set of trims and delays. How does it sound?
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post #17456 of 17482 Old 05-26-2020, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
What are your voltage settings? With proper voltage settings, the output level should not be soft. And did you implement gain management in the 88A? Something could be wrong with the gain management settings.

If using balanced connections, the 88A has an input voltage of 8v, and a selectable output voltage of 2v or 8v.

If using the balanced 2x4, the input voltage is selectable 1.8v or 4.0v, and the output is selectable 2v or 4v.

If using the unbalanced 2x4, the input is selectable .9v or 2.0v, and the output is fixed at .9v.

Please tell me your voltage settings. I know you told me which 2x4 you have, but I don't remember.
i have yet to digest the gain management guide.

i am using the unbalance 2x4.
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post #17457 of 17482 Old 05-26-2020, 07:50 AM
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That looks like a perfectly normal set of trims and delays. How does it sound?
sounded fine. Just that center kinda soft and bass kind heavy.
Using spotify and Dolby surround on denon x7200wa
do u mind help to look and my re-calibrated house curve?
i used the one that u previously plotted for me, however i have since shifted the speaker further apart.

here is my proj file if u dont mind. thanks alot!!
https://we.tl/t-P4pV5Zl3Mp

Last edited by beyond3r; 05-26-2020 at 08:27 AM.
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post #17458 of 17482 Old 05-26-2020, 08:54 AM
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sounded fine. Just that center kinda soft and bass kind heavy.
Using spotify and Dolby surround on denon x7200wa
do u mind help to look and my re-calibrated house curve?
i used the one that u previously plotted for me, however i have since shifted the speaker further apart.

here is my proj file if u dont mind. thanks alot!!
https://we.tl/t-P4pV5Zl3Mp
Looking at the Project, what I see:

- The left and right speakers have quite different measurements, possibly because your room is not symmetric. Dirac has don a good job of correcting the differences.
- The center measures very similar to the left speaker. Again, well corrected by Dirac.
- Surrounds look good.
- Dirac is struggling trying to boost certain sections of the bass response curve. Probably not a big issue.

In general, I think the results are pretty good. Some improvements that you could focus on:

- Using REW, measure the sub response with Dirac off. Use the measurement to see if you can develop REW PEQ to flatten the sub response prior to running Dirac. Load the PEQ into the 2x4 and then re-run Dirac.
- Lower the current 6.5dB bass boost using a new target curve if the bass is too strong. Remember, if you modify the bass target curve, the mains target curves nee to be adjusted as well. Let me know if you need my help.
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post #17459 of 17482 Old 05-26-2020, 12:06 PM
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@AustinJerry

You are the man. I know I appreciate all the work you have put into helping others. I did order a laptop with HDMI output per your suggestion. I am working with Mini support in the meantime to figure out the issue between my Mac and the DLCT. In the meantime, I am reading and re-reading your guides.

Perhaps an easy question... probably obvious, but I am prone to miss the forest for the trees. Before I run the DLCT, don't I need to follow your Bass Management guide to setup the subs in order for the DLCT to get accurate readings?

Video: 65" Sony 900X XBR; Sony X800M2 Blue Ray; OTA Tivo Roamio; Apple TV 4K
Audio Electronics: Rotel Pre-amp RSP-1066, RMB-1075 120x5 Amp; Schiit Modi 2 Uber DAC; Denon 2930CI DVD; MiniDSP DDRC-88A/BM
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post #17460 of 17482 Old 05-26-2020, 01:56 PM
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@AustinJerry

You are the man. I know I appreciate all the work you have put into helping others. I did order a laptop with HDMI output per your suggestion. I am working with Mini support in the meantime to figure out the issue between my Mac and the DLCT. In the meantime, I am reading and re-reading your guides.

Perhaps an easy question... probably obvious, but I am prone to miss the forest for the trees. Before I run the DLCT, don't I need to follow your Bass Management guide to setup the subs in order for the DLCT to get accurate readings?
Bass Management, specifically the configuration of crossover types and values, happens in the “LFE Mgt” tab in the 88A. This tab is “before” the Dirac block, so these settings have no effect on the calibration. However, once the calibration has completed, you would want to immediately make sure speakers in the AVR are set to large, all AVR trims and distances are set to zero, and then proceed with setting up bass management settings. And, of course, before starting anything on the 88A, your subs should be positioned optimally in your listening room, and be properly gain-managed.

The section in the guide titled “Gain Management” is an advanced section that does not need to be followed at this time. Gain Management can be implemented at any time, and does not affect bass management or the Dirac calibration.
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