**miniDSP DDRC-88A Official Thread**8-channel AI/AO Dirac Live in a box - Page 590 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17671 of 17726 Old 06-25-2020, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew Evans View Post
Yes I can. Very baffling I agree. I can make changes to the channel configuration and zones through the display icon in the 88a utility. I've selected unused for channels 7 and 8. When I select the start dirac on the 88a utility, I notice that the 88a utility disconnects as the dirac 3 splash screen pops up. Is this normal?
Yes, the disconnecting is normal behavior and not the reason you cannot connect to the 88A. Let’s see what MiniDSP has to say. Please share their answer with us.
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post #17672 of 17726 Old 06-25-2020, 04:11 PM
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U mentioned there wasn't any significant difference or improvement upon REW measurement.
Didn't mentioned about the difference that make u smile.

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post #17673 of 17726 Old 06-25-2020, 04:48 PM
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U mentioned there wasn't any significant difference or improvement upon REW measurement.
Didn't mentioned about the difference that make u smile.

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I said that the current results of my latest calibration are very pleasing to me. I don’t think I attributed that to a specific improvement in Dirac 3.0. As I said in my feedback, the upgrade is completely risk-free. You can revert to Dirac 1.0 at any time.
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post #17674 of 17726 Old 06-25-2020, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew Evans View Post
Yes I can. Very baffling I agree. I can make changes to the channel configuration and zones through the display icon in the 88a utility. I've selected unused for channels 7 and 8. When I select the start dirac on the 88a utility, I notice that the 88a utility disconnects as the dirac 3 splash screen pops up. Is this normal?
Make sure you're not running any other programs that listen on port 8080 as Dirac uses this port.
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post #17675 of 17726 Old 06-25-2020, 05:08 PM
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Make sure you're not running any other programs that listen on port 8080 as Dirac uses this port.
? Give an example of a program that could be using port 8080 at the same time Dirac is trying to connect to the 88A. I would like to validate that this might be an issue.
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post #17676 of 17726 Old 06-25-2020, 06:10 PM
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Well I got it figured out- it was a virus protection software blocking dirac and not notifying me. F#&%!
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post #17677 of 17726 Old 06-25-2020, 06:24 PM
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Well I got it figured out- it was a virus protection software blocking dirac and not notifying me. F#&%!
OK, moving on...
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post #17678 of 17726 Old 06-25-2020, 06:58 PM
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? Give an example of a program that could be using port 8080 at the same time Dirac is trying to connect to the 88A. I would like to validate that this might be an issue.
On my system it was a small web server running that I had configured the use 8080 - it could be any number of applications or processed that are configured to use 8080, it’s a common web service port.
As soon as I quit the service using 8080, Dirac sees the 88A. This was also noted on miniDSPs forum by another user.

Edit: A quick check as to which application is using port 8080 revealed that it’s actually the miniDSP plugin - must use this as an authentication/communication service to Dirac.
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post #17679 of 17726 Old 06-25-2020, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by astr0b0y View Post
On my system it was a small web server running that I had configured the use 8080 - it could be any number of applications or processed that are configured to use 8080, it’s a common web service port.
As soon as I quit the service using 8080, Dirac sees the 88A. This was also noted on miniDSPs forum by another user.

Edit: A quick check as to which application is using port 8080 revealed that it’s actually the miniDSP plugin - must use this as an authentication/communication service to Dirac.
The OP’s connectivity issue has been resolved, so this is no longer relevant.
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post #17680 of 17726 Old 06-25-2020, 08:42 PM
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Cutting as usual, AustinJerry. Hopefully it helps someone else, it was helpful to me to get Dirac 3 working.
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post #17681 of 17726 Old 06-26-2020, 08:53 AM
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2 DDRC-88As in a 7.2.6 HT system

Hello all,

I am in the process of building a 7.2.6 HT system and would like to add Dirac Live REQ. I experienced Dirac Live on an Emotiva XMC-1 and was very impressed--to the degree that I'd like to integrate this into my new HT if possible.

I've been reading and learning about the best way to accomplish this, and I found this thread about the DDRC-88A to be especially helpful. Because my application is a bit specific, I'm hoping that you guys can help focus my further reading.

So it looks like I'd need to use 2 DDRC-88As for a 7.2.6 HT system. I read through a tutorial on this by Keith Barnes in this thread and am planning on following it. Although I have a few questions:
  1. Because bass management must involve all channels (spanning the two DDRC-88As), can I not use the DDRC-88BM bass management plug-in for the DDRC-88As?
  2. Instead, must I perform bass management entirely in my Marantz AV8805, then output all 15 channels (13 speakers + 2 subs) to 2 DDRC-88s via balanced connections, then output all channels to amplifiers via balanced connections?
  3. Given my setup, will the DDRC-88As provide any useful features to achieve proper sub integration (applying crossovers, optimizing bass response across 2 subs)?
  4. I see some mention of running a single sub output from the processor through the DDRC-88A to a miniDSP Balanced 2x4 then to multiple subs. Is this configuration preferable?

I am a relative newbie, so thanks in advance for sharing your wisdom!
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post #17682 of 17726 Old 06-26-2020, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Cooksons View Post
Hello all,

I am in the process of building a 7.2.6 HT system and would like to add Dirac Live REQ. I experienced Dirac Live on an Emotiva XMC-1 and was very impressed--to the degree that I'd like to integrate this into my new HT if possible.

I've been reading and learning about the best way to accomplish this, and I found this thread about the DDRC-88A to be especially helpful. Because my application is a bit specific, I'm hoping that you guys can help focus my further reading.

So it looks like I'd need to use 2 DDRC-88As for a 7.2.6 HT system. I read through a tutorial on this by Keith Barnes in this thread and am planning on following it. Although I have a few questions:
  1. Because bass management must involve all channels (spanning the two DDRC-88As), can I not use the DDRC-88BM bass management plug-in for the DDRC-88As?
  2. Instead, must I perform bass management entirely in my Marantz AV8805, then output all 15 channels (13 speakers + 2 subs) to 2 DDRC-88s via balanced connections, then output all channels to amplifiers via balanced connections?
  3. Given my setup, will the DDRC-88As provide any useful features to achieve proper sub integration (applying crossovers, optimizing bass response across 2 subs)?
  4. I see some mention of running a single sub output from the processor through the DDRC-88A to a miniDSP Balanced 2x4 then to multiple subs. Is this configuration preferable?

I am a relative newbie, so thanks in advance for sharing your wisdom!
The 88BM implementation guide linked in my sig has a section titled "Using the 88BM in Immersive Sound (Atmos) Configurations", which should give you a good starting point for a two-88A configuration.

Why are you not considering one of the several processors that have 16 channels with Dirac 3.0 processing, as well as Dirac Live Bass Control? One example would be the Monolith HTP-1. The 88A will unfortunately never have Dirac Live Bass Control, and a single-processor solution is much less complex.

HTP-1 thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...rs-thread.html

Last edited by AustinJerry; 06-26-2020 at 01:04 PM.
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post #17683 of 17726 Old 06-26-2020, 01:17 PM
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Hello all,

So it looks like I'd need to use 2 DDRC-88As for a 7.2.6 HT system. I read through a tutorial on this by Keith Barnes in this thread and am planning on following it. Although I have a few questions:

I am a relative newbie, so thanks in advance for sharing your wisdom!
See this post here.

It includes a PDF with Dual Setup, and using BM (different to the Keith Barnes solution).
EDIT:
The "limit" mentioned in the PDF about specific v1.0 software no longer applies - Dirac/MiniDSP resolved the "Channel 3 / Sub" bug in the latest v1.0 SW.
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post #17684 of 17726 Old 06-26-2020, 07:53 PM
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See this post here.

It includes a PDF with Dual Setup, and using BM (different to the Keith Barnes solution).
Nice. If you don’t mind, I will add a link to your post to the 88BM setup guide. Did you do the diagrams in the PDF? If yes, what tool did you use to create the diagrams?
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post #17685 of 17726 Old 06-27-2020, 04:26 AM
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Nice. If you don’t mind, I will add a link to your post to the 88BM setup guide. Did you do the diagrams in the PDF? If yes, what tool did you use to create the diagrams?
They were done in Microsoft Visio. I can Dropbox you the files if you have the software.

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post #17686 of 17726 Old 06-27-2020, 06:25 AM
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They were done in Microsoft Visio. I can Dropbox you the files if you have the software.
No need to Dropbox the files. I have linked your post. I have Visio as well, thanks.
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post #17687 of 17726 Old 06-27-2020, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by wl1 View Post
See this post here.

It includes a PDF with Dual Setup, and using BM (different to the Keith Barnes solution).
EDIT:
The "limit" mentioned in the PDF about specific v1.0 software no longer applies - Dirac/MiniDSP resolved the "Channel 3 / Sub" bug in the latest v1.0 SW.

How are you addressing the delay because the LFE is going through 2 88a's where as the regular speakers and redirected bass are only going through 1 88a?

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Processor: Marantz AV8802a & Dual MiniDSP DDRC-88a BM's - 7.1.4 ATMOS Setup
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post #17688 of 17726 Old 06-27-2020, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by wl1 View Post
See this post here.

It includes a PDF with Dual Setup, and using BM (different to the Keith Barnes solution).
EDIT:
The "limit" mentioned in the PDF about specific v1.0 software no longer applies - Dirac/MiniDSP resolved the "Channel 3 / Sub" bug in the latest v1.0 SW.

According to @markus767 :


Looks about right. After running DL don't forget to compensate for time differences not only caused by the general time difference between the units but also caused by resending the redirected LF out of unit 1 into unit 2. One is done at the 88BM outputs the other needs to be done in the AVR.


This was the only thing left to figure out in order to do bass management in my dual 88a's

Display: LG 65" OLED C7P + OPPO UDP-203 4K UHD Blu-ray Player
Processor: Marantz AV8802a & Dual MiniDSP DDRC-88a BM's - 7.1.4 ATMOS Setup
Speakers: (6) B&W 685 S2 - L,R,SR,SL,SBR,SBL + (1) B&W HTM61 S2 - Center + (4) B&W CCM 682 - Atmos
Amps: (1) Rotel RMB-1585 + (3) Rotel RB-1582 MKII -- Subs: (4) SVS PC-2000's
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Thank you all for the excellent guidance! I've read the sections that you recommended and have a few more questions

@AustinJerry and @wl1 : Thanks for suggesting those clever "cascading DDRC-88A/BM" setups. @MBrown2020 makes a great point about needing to compensate for the 88-1 delay in all "LF+LFE" signals that pass through both 88-1 and 88-2. I've thought about this but can't figure out specifically how to measure and compensate for these delays in the 88BM outputs and AVR. I apologize, but could someone please elaborate?

@AustinJerry : You make a great point about why not just buy a 16-channel Dirac 3.0 processor instead of making my life complicated. Well, I already own a Marantz AV8805 (which people seem to love) and recently began looking for a reasonable way to add on Dirac Live processing. I didn't realize that there were 16-channel Dirac processors out there in the ~$5k price range. I hadn't seen the Monoprice Monolith HTP-1 until you linked it. I've bought lots of nice inexpensive cables and TV mounts from Monoprice, but developing a HT processor seems like a BIG step up in technical expertise. As an aside, I owned Emotiva's UMC-1 (their first processor?) and fought with its bugs until I finally sold it. I'm wary about having the same issues with the HTP-1, but maybe this isn't justified. Do people generally like this processor, and are there others in its price range that I should consider vs. "forcing" this A8805+2x DDRC-88A solution?

It seems that unless I go the single Dirac processor route, I will sacrifice Dirac Live Bass Control. Sigh, I wish I could better gauge how much I'm losing there.

Lastly, it seems like an easy way to avoid compensating for cascading delays in a "cascading DDRC-88A/BM" setup would be to perform BM in the AV8805 and run all channels through the two 88As unmixed. What functionality would I lose there? It seems like I could even independently route the 2 sub outputs of the AV8805 through 2 channels on an 88A and then out to the subs. Is there a downside to running Dirac on multiple sub channels in parallel? My subs have on-board PEQ, phase, and gain control settings, so I could do my best to integrate them before running Dirac.

Apologies for any dumb questions. I've tried to read up on this stuff, but there's so much. Many thanks for your time.
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post #17690 of 17726 Old 06-27-2020, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Cooksons View Post
Thank you all for the excellent guidance! I've read the sections that you recommended and have a few more questions

Lastly, it seems like an easy way to avoid compensating for cascading delays in a "cascading DDRC-88A/BM" setup would be to perform BM in the AV8805 and run all channels through the two 88As unmixed. What functionality would I lose there? It seems like I could even independently route the 2 sub outputs of the AV8805 through 2 channels on an 88A and then out to the subs. Is there a downside to running Dirac on multiple sub channels in parallel? My subs have on-board PEQ, phase, and gain control settings, so I could do my best to integrate them before running Dirac.

This exactly what I am doing now, bass management in the AVR. I would like to figure out how to move it into the 88a, but am also stuck on how to reliably measure the delays needed.


1)measure the delay of the first 88a and convert that to feet so I could input into the AVR height speakers to delay the input signal to the second 88a???
2)measure the delay of the first 88a and enter that ms value into the 7 speakers on the output tab of first 88a???


Maybe @markus767 can help us with this, I know it was him who was discussing this back before he left the forums.
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Display: LG 65" OLED C7P + OPPO UDP-203 4K UHD Blu-ray Player
Processor: Marantz AV8802a & Dual MiniDSP DDRC-88a BM's - 7.1.4 ATMOS Setup
Speakers: (6) B&W 685 S2 - L,R,SR,SL,SBR,SBL + (1) B&W HTM61 S2 - Center + (4) B&W CCM 682 - Atmos
Amps: (1) Rotel RMB-1585 + (3) Rotel RB-1582 MKII -- Subs: (4) SVS PC-2000's
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post #17691 of 17726 Old 06-27-2020, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Cooksons View Post
Thank you all for the excellent guidance! I've read the sections that you recommended and have a few more questions

@AustinJerry and @wl1 : Thanks for suggesting those clever "cascading DDRC-88A/BM" setups. @MBrown2020 makes a great point about needing to compensate for the 88-1 delay in all "LF+LFE" signals that pass through both 88-1 and 88-2. I've thought about this but can't figure out specifically how to measure and compensate for these delays in the 88BM outputs and AVR. I apologize, but could someone please elaborate?

@AustinJerry : You make a great point about why not just buy a 16-channel Dirac 3.0 processor instead of making my life complicated. Well, I already own a Marantz AV8805 (which people seem to love) and recently began looking for a reasonable way to add on Dirac Live processing. I didn't realize that there were 16-channel Dirac processors out there in the ~$5k price range. I hadn't seen the Monoprice Monolith HTP-1 until you linked it. I've bought lots of nice inexpensive cables and TV mounts from Monoprice, but developing a HT processor seems like a BIG step up in technical expertise. As an aside, I owned Emotiva's UMC-1 (their first processor?) and fought with its bugs until I finally sold it. I'm wary about having the same issues with the HTP-1, but maybe this isn't justified. Do people generally like this processor, and are there others in its price range that I should consider vs. "forcing" this A8805+2x DDRC-88A solution?

It seems that unless I go the single Dirac processor route, I will sacrifice Dirac Live Bass Control. Sigh, I wish I could better gauge how much I'm losing there.

Lastly, it seems like an easy way to avoid compensating for cascading delays in a "cascading DDRC-88A/BM" setup would be to perform BM in the AV8805 and run all channels through the two 88As unmixed. What functionality would I lose there? It seems like I could even independently route the 2 sub outputs of the AV8805 through 2 channels on an 88A and then out to the subs. Is there a downside to running Dirac on multiple sub channels in parallel? My subs have on-board PEQ, phase, and gain control settings, so I could do my best to integrate them before running Dirac.

Apologies for any dumb questions. I've tried to read up on this stuff, but there's so much. Many thanks for your time.
The HTP-1 is designed and engineered by one of the more reputable electronics companies out there. If you are concerned about Monoprice as a brand, check out the reviews for their Monolith amplifiers, which have been very well received (and are made by the same company as the HTP-1). Before passing judgement, you should read the HTP-1 thread.

I have the Marantz 8802a, and agree that the Marantz+88A pair well together. However, I only have a 7.1 setup, which makes things much more straight-forward. Running bass management on the 88A provides a number of benefits, so moving bass management back to the AVR defeats one of the best features of the 88A, IMO. I’lll let others assist you on how to proceed.

And as for whether Dirac Live Bass Control provides a better solution than integrating multiple subs manually, the jury is still out. It is such a new technology that I have yet to see anyone implement it successfully enough that I would say the results are better than what I have now. I remain open minded.
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post #17692 of 17726 Old 06-27-2020, 06:00 PM
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Lastly, it seems like an easy way to avoid compensating for cascading delays in a "cascading DDRC-88A/BM" setup would be to perform BM in the AV8805 and run all channels through the two 88As unmixed.
That's the easiest way to deal with your set-up. Connect all speakers to the two 88A units and Dirac them. They will be time aligned and level matched, as well as EQ'd over their entire range. Then do an Audyssey calibration on your 8805.

Since Dirac already calibrated all your speakers, they will all appear to Audyssey the same distance away and the same level. IF there is any difference in latency between the two 88A units, Audyssey delays will compensate for that. Then turn off Audyssey EQ, leaving only the delay & level settings in place on your 8805.

Doing bass management on your 8805 means that bass from ALL channels will be routed to the subwoofer output. With two 88A units, how do you get the bass from the channels in one unit to the subwoofer outputs on the other unit? Also, since Dirac EQ'd the full range of your speakers, you are free to adjust crossover settings on your 8805 whenever you want.
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It seems like I could even independently route the 2 sub outputs of the AV8805 through 2 channels on an 88A and then out to the subs.
Generally not a good idea. You never listen to each of your subs separately, so you should not EQ them separately. One of the reasons to use multiple subs is because they can fill in each other's peaks & dips. Since you're always listening to the interaction of your subs, it makes more sense to EQ their interaction (i.e., connect ALL your subs to one Dirac channel).

If you're willing to spend the time doing subwoofer optimization (adjusting level, phase and EQ on each sub to improve their interaction) before Dirac does it's EQ, then that can be helpful. Keep in mind that there can be thousands of combinations of level, phase and EQ between a pair of subs, so trying every one to find the best combination can take years.
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post #17693 of 17726 Old 06-27-2020, 09:03 PM
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@AustinJerry : You make a great point about why not just buy a 16-channel Dirac 3.0 processor instead of making my life complicated. Well, I already own a Marantz AV8805 (which people seem to love) and recently began looking for a reasonable way to add on Dirac Live processing. I didn't realize that there were 16-channel Dirac processors out there in the ~$5k price range. I hadn't seen the Monoprice Monolith HTP-1 until you linked it. I've bought lots of nice inexpensive cables and TV mounts from Monoprice, but developing a HT processor seems like a BIG step up in technical expertise. As an aside, I owned Emotiva's UMC-1 (their first processor?) and fought with its bugs until I finally sold it. I'm wary about having the same issues with the HTP-1, but maybe this isn't justified. Do people generally like this processor, and are there others in its price range that I should consider vs. "forcing" this A8805+2x DDRC-88A solution?
You really should take a closer look at the Monoprice HTP-1. I had DDRC-88A-BM (one unit, still own it) system and now I'm using the HTP-1. You get much improved noise floor, no issues with setting gains, no extra A-D/D-A conversion, no 1st channel whining noises, easy connection without extra wiring, much easier setup. And later Dirac Live Bass Control. At this time I wouldn't buy a new DDRC-88A, used maybe if they are cheap enough and you have lots of time tinkering with your system.
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post #17694 of 17726 Old 06-29-2020, 01:12 PM
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Completed a full 17 point calibration last night. Went smoothly. Interestingly, with Dirac 3, my sub channel did not clip when running measurements near a side wall. With Dirac 1 I would have to either reposition the mic, or go back a screen and adjust the master volume of the test levels.

Subjectively, I hear an improvement with the sound. Especially with classical music. Music featuring a single piano or instrument image more clearly- the sound does not "dance" as much between the speakers.Overall, I'm quite impressed with the updated program.
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post #17695 of 17726 Old 06-29-2020, 08:13 PM
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I'm late in replying, but thank you everyone. I would be willing to drop $2k on 2 DDRC-88As if I was confident that they were the optimal path to getting better sound. After @AustinJerry and @TimoJ vouching for the HTP-1, I'm no longer feeling that way. Especially if the 88As introduce degradations due to extra ADC/DAC conversions and a raised noise floor, which I wasn't aware of.

Now I'm feeling that I should finish building my setup with my AV8805 and give Audyssey a shot while I spend more time reading up on this stuff.

And thanks @sdurani for the dual subwoofer setup tip. Makes perfect sense.
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post #17696 of 17726 Old 06-30-2020, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Evans View Post
Completed a full 17 point calibration last night. Went smoothly. Interestingly, with Dirac 3, my sub channel did not clip when running measurements near a side wall. With Dirac 1 I would have to either reposition the mic, or go back a screen and adjust the master volume of the test levels.

Subjectively, I hear an improvement with the sound. Especially with classical music. Music featuring a single piano or instrument image more clearly- the sound does not "dance" as much between the speakers.Overall, I'm quite impressed with the updated program.
I feel the same with my system. With a simple piano and female vocalist, in particular, the soundstage and clarity seem to be as good as I have heard with v3 compared to v1, although I cannot support that claim with facts.

Video: 65" Sony 900X XBR; Sony X800M2 Blue Ray; OTA Tivo Roamio; Apple TV 4K
Audio Electronics: Rotel Pre-amp RSP-1066, RMB-1075 120x5 Amp; Schiit Modi 2 Uber DAC; Denon 2930CI DVD; MiniDSP DDRC-88A/BM
Speakers: Klipsch Forte III, CDT-5800 II (Surround); B&K Sounds CSC-1 (Center); Dual SVS SB 3000's
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post #17697 of 17726 Old 06-30-2020, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooksons View Post
I'm late in replying, but thank you everyone. I would be willing to drop $2k on 2 DDRC-88As if I was confident that they were the optimal path to getting better sound. After @AustinJerry and @TimoJ vouching for the HTP-1, I'm no longer feeling that way. Especially if the 88As introduce degradations due to extra ADC/DAC conversions and a raised noise floor, which I wasn't aware of.

Now I'm feeling that I should finish building my setup with my AV8805 and give Audyssey a shot while I spend more time reading up on this stuff.

And thanks @sdurani for the dual subwoofer setup tip. Makes perfect sense.
I have not been as concerned with the noise floor and the extra A/D/A conversions in the 88A. However, to be fair, I have not had the chance to evaluate a processor like the HTP-1 to see if I could actually hear a difference in audio quality. But if I had a setup that required two 88A’s (recall I have a 7.1 configuration), I would certainly think twice before going that route. I think your conservative approach makes perfect sense.
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post #17698 of 17726 Old 07-01-2020, 02:16 AM
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i will like to inquire regarding measurement

i have a high back sofa, so my MLP ear level will be below the back of the sofa.
i know that the mic must be at the line-of-sight to all speakers, so i have raised it above the sofa.
how high should i raise for MLP so that some of the other measurements point that is lower than the MLP?

also for dirac 3.0, i should set all speaker to small/bass managed right and at the routing page set Dirac 3 to ON, only set to OFF and direct to lfe mgt after calibration.

Does Dirac 3.0 allow to load other people's filter?

Last edited by beyond3r; 07-01-2020 at 02:46 AM.
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post #17699 of 17726 Old 07-01-2020, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by beyond3r View Post
Does Dirac 3.0 allow to load other people's filter?
Why would you want to load a filter that is only really valid for the speakers and acoustics of someone else?

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post #17700 of 17726 Old 07-01-2020, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by beyond3r View Post
how high should i raise for MLP so that some of the other measurements point that is lower than the MLP?

Does Dirac 3.0 allow to load other people's filter?
Consider reclining the seats if possible., and perhaps cover any hard leather seats with a towel to prevent mis-measuring the room response.....

Do you mean load other peoples Target Curves (not Filters)? YES - that is normal - and is hidden in the top left menu...."Load target Curves" IIRC.

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