The Official Anthem AVM 60 thread - Page 203 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6061 of 9734 Old 01-17-2018, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Oh well, try rationalizing how "once" is NOT spelled starting with a "w".

Yep. "Won" and "one". Huh?

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post #6062 of 9734 Old 01-17-2018, 09:41 AM
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^Too funny! Some of those are like an ice pick in the ear. Fully disclosure: Although they often bother me, I am also guilty.

Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #6063 of 9734 Old 01-17-2018, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
It's only harsh with ARC off and the sound is "untamed", and it's not for all sources. The best way to describe it is that the "s" sounds are more pronounced with some material, and the dialog volume is more variable. ARC does tame that.
Interesting development.

I called a local AV dealer to talk about speakers their company carries () and we started talking about the problem in more detail. He suggested that adjusting the center channel volume on select disks might help. Huh! Good idea. After hanging up, I also realized that I hadn't tried upping treble. A couple of quick tests showed that these changes can help with some disks.

My current opinion is that this is predominantly a production values issue. It occurs too frequently with blu ray disks, but it also occurs with TV. All I can think of doing is calling out the bad players in reviews.

Mind, I'm still going to listen to some speakers. Just in case.

Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #6064 of 9734 Old 01-17-2018, 01:19 PM
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Hey folks

Just spoke to anthem customer support and Jamie said that equalization upto 20,000 hz is not something they support. He said, the system lets you put 20,000 hz but it really only equalizes upto 5000. Quite confused now, because I too felt the system sounded better after equalizing to 20,000 Hz.

Thanks
Meyy
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post #6065 of 9734 Old 01-17-2018, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyy Arunachalam View Post
Hey folks

Just spoke to anthem customer support and Jamie said that equalization upto 20,000 hz is not something they support. He said, the system lets you put 20,000 hz but it really only equalizes upto 5000. Quite confused now, because I too felt the system sounded better after equalizing to 20,000 Hz.

Thanks
Meyy
Probably placebo. Unless rerunning a calculation changed slightly from the previous with 20k selected even though ARC stops at 5k
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post #6066 of 9734 Old 01-17-2018, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyy Arunachalam View Post
Hey folks

Just spoke to anthem customer support and Jamie said that equalization upto 20,000 hz is not something they support. He said, the system lets you put 20,000 hz but it really only equalizes upto 5000. Quite confused now, because I too felt the system sounded better after equalizing to 20,000 Hz.

Thanks
Meyy
That makes absolutely no sense what so ever.
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post #6067 of 9734 Old 01-17-2018, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyy Arunachalam View Post
Hey folks

Just spoke to anthem customer support and Jamie said that equalization upto 20,000 hz is not something they support. He said, the system lets you put 20,000 hz but it really only equalizes upto 5000. Quite confused now, because I too felt the system sounded better after equalizing to 20,000 Hz.

Thanks
Meyy
I feel like it's more "airy" when you leave it down around the Schroeder level (200 Hz), but some say that's a bit placebo as well. It's either on at 5000 Hz, or off altogether, according to some folks.

I find that for really well-mixed discs - such as The Martian or The Revenant - there's an atmospheric benefit to leaving it off. However, with TV or lesser blu rays, which is most of them, it's better to have it on.

But I still want to do more testing. I look forward to using Blade Runner 2049 to test further. It apparently has an excellent sound mix.

Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
Audio: Anthem AVM60 preamp, Anthem MCA525 amp, B&K Reference 125.7 amp
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post #6068 of 9734 Old 01-17-2018, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
I feel like it's more "airy" when you leave it down around the Schroeder level (200 Hz), but some say that's a bit placebo as well. It's either on at 5000 Hz, or off altogether, according to some folks.

I find that for really well-mixed discs - such as The Martian or The Revenant - there's an atmospheric benefit to leaving it off. However, with TV or lesser blu rays, which is most of them, it's better to have it on.

But I still want to do more testing. I look forward to using Blade Runner 2049 to test further. It apparently has an excellent sound mix.
I just bought bladerunner 2049. Going to test it now. And compare with my NAD with Dirac processing.
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post #6069 of 9734 Old 01-17-2018, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
No, not directed at you, per se, just in general. It's used (misused) FAR too often for it to be a typo or voice-text issue- not that either would really apply anyway, as a "typo" really isn't the same as adding an extra letter to a word.

I'm 99% sure it's the "coo" "boo" "moo" "zoo' "too" "woo" phonetic-thing. People hear the "double o" in "lose" and spell it that way: loose.

Oh well, try rationalizing how "once" is NOT spelled starting with a "w". "Wince" , "wit" , "what" , "when" , "won't" , "wag" , "work" , "wool" , "word" ... "once"

I guess I'm ruthless, lol, carrying on now...
This is all starting to remind me of Stewie and Brian arguing about "Cool Whip".....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyy Arunachalam View Post
I just bought bladerunner 2049. Going to test it now. And compare with my NAD with Dirac processing.
Look forward to hearing your report on this!
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7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
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post #6070 of 9734 Old 01-17-2018, 07:12 PM
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So all we got was better looking graphs? That doesn't seem very useful. Nuts.

Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #6071 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 03:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
Can I overlay an optical 2 channel PCM input over an HDMI video input on this?
Yes. When you define an input, you separately select the audio from the video. See p.23 of manual.

Thanks for this. So then switching from the HDMI audio to PCM audio on the fly may be a bit of a to do? Not a big deal, it?s just fairly quick and easy on my current Marantz.

Thanks
James

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post #6072 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
So all we got was better looking graphs? That doesn't seem very useful. Nuts.
I question the reply from Anthem. Either the question was not understood or the answer is being misinterpreted.

Why would they go through the trouble of calculating corrections but not download them? Makes zero sense.

Why announce something that does not actually work?
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post #6073 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
Thanks for this. So then switching from the HDMI audio to PCM audio on the fly may be a bit of a to do? Not a big deal, it?s just fairly quick and easy on my current Marantz.

Thanks
James
Have two inputs setup to use the same HDMI for video. Set one to use HDMI for audio, the other your PCM source. Simply switch between those two inputs to change audio source.

Edit: A nice advantage of this approach is that you can set the default sound mode for two-channel audio to something like Dolby Surround for the input using HDMI audio and the default mode to None or AnthemLogic-Music for the input using PCM audio.

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post #6074 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 07:10 AM
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I recently added the AVM 60 to my home theater and with the supplied USB cable (approximately 12 feet), I can’t reach all the seating positions from my HTPC that I’m running ARC on. I would need a total of about 25 feet. I’ve been told that USB is unreliable beyond 12 feet, has anyone used an extension successfully?
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post #6075 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamie Hauser View Post
I recently added the AVM 60 to my home theater and with the supplied USB cable (approximately 12 feet), I can’t reach all the seating positions from my HTPC that I’m running ARC on. I would need a total of about 25 feet. I’ve been told that USB is unreliable beyond 12 feet, has anyone used an extension successfully?
Do you have a laptop with a USB port?

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Audio: Anthem AVM60 preamp, Anthem MCA525 amp, B&K Reference 125.7 amp
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post #6076 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
Interesting development.

I called a local AV dealer to talk about speakers their company carries () and we started talking about the problem in more detail. He suggested that adjusting the center channel volume on select disks might help. Huh! Good idea. After hanging up, I also realized that I hadn't tried upping treble. A couple of quick tests showed that these changes can help with some disks.

My current opinion is that this is predominantly a production values issue. It occurs too frequently with blu ray disks, but it also occurs with TV. All I can think of doing is calling out the bad players in reviews.

Mind, I'm still going to listen to some speakers. Just in case.
I put in a good 6 hours last night of testing on multiple familiar scenes, and I think I've arrived at what I think works best for my room. I looked for scenes that had a lot of surround detail, others with big sound, others that were indoor/outdoor dialog, and still others that had music both soft and prominent in the background. I put them through all the paces with all sorts of combinations on my Anthem 60.

One of the difficult factors to work through is that when you turn off ARC, you initially hear a "fuller" sound, but a big percentage of that difference lies in just the volume jump of having ARC turned off. You have to bump up the volume by 3-4 dB with ARC on to get a fair comparison, and when you do, that difference largely falls away. So what's better?

First off, I think the differences are pretty small if you have a symmetrical dedicated room like I have. But there are differences, and some benefit each in different ways.

My conclusion: I feel like the best sound I was able to achieve across multiple scenes as a whole was with ARC max EQ set to 250 Hz (Schroeder) with a +3 applied to the room gain measurement after measurement and before calculation, AND adding a +2 in the treble on the Anthem remote. I also re-leveled my speakers with an SPL to 75 dB after running and applying ARC.

That last change, the treble, brought the dynamics back into the room that seemed slightly dampened with ARC on. I chose to ignore the dip at 500 Hz because, frankly, I can't hear anything in content that demonstrates it. However, with ARC off, there are some blu rays that get boomy on the low end with ARC off completely, so I can definitely see the value of using room correction for that low end. Some discs don't need it, but many do.

Otherwise, the Anthem 60 is such a good processor, it simply doesn't need that much help beyond those tweaks, IMO.
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Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
Audio: Anthem AVM60 preamp, Anthem MCA525 amp, B&K Reference 125.7 amp
Subs: dual SVS PC-12 cylinders
Speakers: RBH SV-661R and SV-661CR fronts, Jamo 626k4 side/rear surrounds, DefTech DI6.5R heights

Last edited by Erod; 01-18-2018 at 07:38 AM.
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post #6077 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGLeduc View Post
I question the reply from Anthem. Either the question was not understood or the answer is being misinterpreted.

Why would they go through the trouble of calculating corrections but not download them? Makes zero sense.

Why announce something that does not actually work?
It's easy to convince myself that something is or isn't true in audio so the placebo effect had to at least be considered. When in doubt, it's useful to measure things if at all possible. In this case, it was pretty easy.

Using an old Radio Shack Sound Level Meter mounted on a stand with the Stereophile Test CD #2 warble tones on track 18, I measured the sound level output using firmware with no correction above 5k and with firmware with correction to 11k. Comparing test results, certain frequencies varied by 4 to 5 decibels.

Not sure who the Anthem person was that said there was no correction above 5k but he/she doesn't seem to have the correct information.
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Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #6078 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Hauser View Post
I recently added the AVM 60 to my home theater and with the supplied USB cable (approximately 12 feet), I can’t reach all the seating positions from my HTPC that I’m running ARC on. I would need a total of about 25 feet. I’ve been told that USB is unreliable beyond 12 feet, has anyone used an extension successfully?
Deja vu.

I was in the same boat early last year when I bought my AVM 60. I bought a premium 25' USB 2.0 to mini-B USB cable from Amazon. Yes, it's longer than the USB spec says is legit -- a limit I didn't know about at the time of purchase. It seems to work. That said, if I needed to buy a solution today 2 cables and a self-powered usb hub would be more appropriate.

YMMV

Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #6079 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 07:55 AM
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I have installed many of these using a longer cable w/o a problem. A powered hub should do the trick as well.

BTW, just had a client cancel a purchase (for the time being), so have NIB unit FS if anyone's interested.

HT/Music Atmos setup with Scaena line arrays and Storm Audio processor

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post #6080 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyy Arunachalam View Post
Hey folks

Just spoke to anthem customer support and Jamie said that equalization upto 20,000 hz is not something they support. He said, the system lets you put 20,000 hz but it really only equalizes upto 5000. Quite confused now, because I too felt the system sounded better after equalizing to 20,000 Hz.

Thanks
Meyy
I'm surprised an Anthem rep said that setting it to 20,000 makes no difference, because if you run the graphs with it set to 5000 you can see it's only EQ-ed up to 5000, and everything after 5000 is all over the place, but if you then change it to 20,000 the lines are flat up to 20,000 and it either dips or raises after that. The rep has no idea what they are talking about because the 5000 and 20,000 graphs show it does work up to 20,000.
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"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"
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post #6081 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 09:18 AM
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I'm surprised an Anthem rep said that setting it to 20,000 makes no difference, because if you run the graphs with it set to 5000 you can see it's only EQ-ed up to 5000, and everything after 5000 is all over the place, but if you then change it to 20,000 the lines are flat up to 20,000 and it either dips or raises after that. The rep has no idea what they are talking about because the 5000 and 20,000 graphs show it does work up to 20,000.
Do you apply correction to 20,000?

Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
Audio: Anthem AVM60 preamp, Anthem MCA525 amp, B&K Reference 125.7 amp
Subs: dual SVS PC-12 cylinders
Speakers: RBH SV-661R and SV-661CR fronts, Jamo 626k4 side/rear surrounds, DefTech DI6.5R heights
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post #6082 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 09:29 AM
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Do you apply correction to 20,000?
Sorry I forgot to add the 5000 and 20,000 pics of the graphs. I just added them. Yes I do correct up to 20,000.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"
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post #6083 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 09:48 AM
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Sorry I forgot to add the 5000 and 20,000 pics of the graphs. I just added them. Yes I do correct up to 20,000.
I ran mine to 20,000, but I find it dampens the high end too much. I just correct the Schroeder frequency in my room.

My graphs look like yours (other than a weird dip I get at 500 Hz), but my ears prefer no correction beyond 250 Hz.

But I'm sure my placebo screw will come loose soon, and I'll change my damn mind again

Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
Audio: Anthem AVM60 preamp, Anthem MCA525 amp, B&K Reference 125.7 amp
Subs: dual SVS PC-12 cylinders
Speakers: RBH SV-661R and SV-661CR fronts, Jamo 626k4 side/rear surrounds, DefTech DI6.5R heights
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post #6084 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 09:54 AM
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I ran mine to 20,000, but I find it dampens the high end too much. I just correct the Schroeder frequency in my room.

My graphs look like yours (other than a weird dip I get at 500 Hz), but my ears prefer no correction beyond 250 Hz.

But I'm sure my placebo screw will come loose soon, and I'll change my damn mind again
To be honest I’ve never really compared how it sounds going from 5000 to 20,000. My room sounded great at 5000, and still sounds great at 20,000. The graphs show there’s definitely a difference going from one to the other but I never really sat down and switched back and forth to compare them.

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post #6085 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
Deja vu.

I was in the same boat early last year when I bought my AVM 60. I bought a premium 25' USB 2.0 to mini-B USB cable from Amazon. Yes, it's longer than the USB spec says is legit -- a limit I didn't know about at the time of purchase. It seems to work. That said, if I needed to buy a solution today 2 cables and a self-powered usb hub would be more appropriate.

YMMV
Thanks for all the replies.

I found I had a Belkin High-Speed USB 2.0 Mini Hub F5U215-MOB (I’m assuming that it’s considered self-powered) lying around and can get a 10’ extension pretty cheap so I’ll try that.

I did get a response back from Anthem Tech. Support:

“USB is unreliable beyond 12 feet, you can definitely try using a longer cable but you may have connection issues. If it works, then it works – the quality won’t be in question.”
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post #6086 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
To be honest I’ve never really compared how it sounds going from 5000 to 20,000. My room sounded great at 5000, and still sounds great at 20,000. The graphs show there’s definitely a difference going from one to the other but I never really sat down and switched back and forth to compare them.
Have you ever dropped your max EQ down to 200 Hz and listened? Your speakers already perform well, so you might want to give that a listen.

Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
Audio: Anthem AVM60 preamp, Anthem MCA525 amp, B&K Reference 125.7 amp
Subs: dual SVS PC-12 cylinders
Speakers: RBH SV-661R and SV-661CR fronts, Jamo 626k4 side/rear surrounds, DefTech DI6.5R heights
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Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
I'm surprised an Anthem rep said that setting it to 20,000 makes no difference, because if you run the graphs with it set to 5000 you can see it's only EQ-ed up to 5000, and everything after 5000 is all over the place, but if you then change it to 20,000 the lines are flat up to 20,000 and it either dips or raises after that. The rep has no idea what they are talking about because the 5000 and 20,000 graphs show it does work up to 20,000.
I find the different target curves above 10k interesting. I wonder exactly how they're determined by ARC. Your targets are ruler flat at the listening position, although it looks like there is a natural rolloff except where it spikes up at around 20k.

My targets appear to follow the natural room rolloff of my speakers. My curves are corrected up to 500Hz.


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post #6088 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
Have you ever dropped your max EQ down to 200 Hz and listened? Your speakers already perform well, so you might want to give that a listen.
A real long time ago I tried 500 Hz but I seemed to loose the air in my system. Things just didn't sounds a open and spacious.

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post #6089 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
I find the different target curves above 10k interesting. I wonder exactly how they're determined by ARC. Your targets are ruler flat at the listening position, although it looks like there is a natural rolloff except where it spikes up at around 20k.

My targets appear to follow the natural room rolloff of my speakers. My curves are corrected up to 500Hz.


I run Monitor Audio Silver speakers for my fronts and center and they have a response up to 30,000 kHz. I wonder if the fronts and center graphs show a spike past 20,000 kHz because they are capable of 30,000kHz while most speakers go up to 20,000kHz. I had Axiom QS8 for my surrounds which go up to 20,000kHz and the surround graph doesn't show a spike past 20,000.

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post #6090 of 9734 Old 01-18-2018, 06:23 PM
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The Official Anthem AVM 60 thread

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Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
So all we got was better looking graphs? That doesn't seem very useful. Nuts.


That makes absolutely no senses the graph wouldn’t change if they didn’t add any bands. The reason it sometimes looks better with 500 setting is they use all the bands from 15hrz to 500 so the curve conforms better. When you raise it to 2000 you have the same amount of bands but 15-2000 hrz to adjust.


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