The Official Anthem AVM 60 thread - Page 264 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7891 of 9585 Old 10-07-2018, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MajorTendonitis View Post
I was waiting for that . Here’s a comparison of my two subwoofers ,which are both Paradigm 12” woofers , but one is my old one with one huge rear firing port,and the new one with two smaller front firing ports .
This is at the beginning when you run the quick test . The graphs at some points are bang on,but my old PW2200 is represented by the purple lone , and it goes lower. This is before room correction takes place
Here's my sub graph from a recent ARC run. It shows FR down to 15 Hz as well as correction by ARC, which in this case, brings a lot to the party. YMMV.
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post #7892 of 9585 Old 10-07-2018, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
Here's my sub graph from a recent ARC run. It shows FR down to 15 Hz as well as correction by ARC, which in this case, brings a lot to the party. YMMV.
If in fact the line truly looks like that . I’m sure it’s helping though. . In my case I don’t like what ARC did to my bass response .
I think I prefer a hump at 30- 50 hz. It’s sure interesting seeing what the response looks like though .
I’m thinking the quick test should show a null created by dual subs if there cancelling one another out , and I should be able to watch the response on my laptop , and change the phase on the rear sub to compensate.

I do have gentleman coming over this afternoon to buy my stage piano , who went to university for a degree in audio engineering. I will have to shoot a few ideas past him

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post #7893 of 9585 Old 10-07-2018, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by MajorTendonitis View Post
If in fact the line truly looks like that . I’m sure it’s helping though. . In my case I don’t like what ARC did to my bass response .
I think I prefer a hump at 30- 50 hz. It’s sure interesting seeing what the response looks like though .
I’m thinking the quick test should show a null created by dual subs if there cancelling one another out , and I should be able to watch the response on my laptop , and change the phase on the rear sub to compensate.

I do have gentleman coming over this afternoon to buy my stage piano , who went to university for a degree in audio engineering. I will have to shoot a few ideas past him
Point of curiosity...

So when you run ARC, it flattens your 50 Hz hump, yes? It seems like increasing bass on the remote would lift a lot more of your LF, potentially giving you the lift you're seeking? Or it could be as simple as the 50 Hz hump sounds better in your room?

Not sure what all is down at 50 Hz. Certainly bass guitar, piano, double bass, probably special effects?

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post #7894 of 9585 Old 10-07-2018, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
Point of curiosity...

So when you run ARC, it flattens your 50 Hz hump, yes? It seems like increasing bass on the remote would lift a lot more of your LF, potentially giving you the lift you're seeking? Or it could be as simple as the 50 Hz hump sounds better in your room?

Not sure what all is down at 50 Hz. Certainly bass guitar, piano, double bass, probably special effects?
Music is night and day better with ARC off , as are music videos . I did have my phase set wrong,but now that I have that corrected ,there’s still no improvement with ARC .

I’d like to do another test and leave the subwoofer out of the equation . Apparently it can be done by changing 9th order to flat in the drop down.
Guess I could save it as profile 2 , and do an A B comparison.

I think I’m going to be at this for a long time lol

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post #7895 of 9585 Old 10-07-2018, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorTendonitis View Post
Music is night and day better with ARC off , as are music videos . I did have my phase set wrong,but now that I have that corrected ,there’s still no improvement with ARC .

I’d like to do another test and leave the subwoofer out of the equation . Apparently it can be done by changing 9th order to flat in the drop down.
Guess I could save it as profile 2 , and do an A B comparison.

I think I’m going to be at this for a long time lol
^I may have missed it -- things have been a bit crazy here. Are you using a miniDSP with your subs? Never used this device myself but with ARC off, this might help your situation.

Re: being at this a long time, I'm at 21 months and counting. But to be fair, I've fixed a heck of a lot of major problems with my space and gear that held the AVM 60 back.

Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #7896 of 9585 Old 10-07-2018, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
^I may have missed it -- things have been a bit crazy here. Are you using a miniDSP with your subs? Never used this device myself but with ARC off, this might help your situation.

Re: being at this a long time, I'm at 21 months and counting. But to be fair, I've fixed a heck of a lot of major problems with my space and gear that held the AVM 60 back.
I’m in my living room ,so I don’t have a lot of options to change speaker locations etc. I’m sure I can improve upon what I have now .
May take a while but I’ll get it . As I mentioned,it’s pretty darn good as long as ARC is off . It just takes one hell of a dive with it on.
For the improvement I’m seeing with UHD Blu- Ray ,or lack of , I would have kept my present system and just let the Oled upscale Blu Ray movies if I were to do it all again.
Live and learn I guess

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post #7897 of 9585 Old 10-07-2018, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorTendonitis View Post
I have my Bass and Sub gain programmed in a newly purchased Harmony Elite remote , and can change things on the fly extremely fast .
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Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
+1 on Harmony higher end remotes.

But, but.....I think my coffee table looks cooler and more hi-tech with the 5 remotes sitting there all lined up next to each other.......
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7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
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2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59

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post #7898 of 9585 Old 10-07-2018, 12:40 PM
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But, but.....I think my coffee table looks more cool and hi-tech with the 5 remotes sitting there all lined up next to each other.......

lol, I still keep the Anthem remote close by

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post #7899 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 02:14 AM
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So I change amp from my Cary 7.125w to the ATI Ncore 8x200w wich is feed by the AVM60.

To my surprise I still have the hiss issue from my speakers. I have tried different options and have now contacted my dealer for warranty.



1. I have tried the Ground lift on the XLR cable.

2. Switch from XLR to RCA wich gave me more problem.

3. Switch the outlet and tried on different fuses.

4. I have tried grounding the ATI to the chassi on AVM60.

5. Removed the input XLR but still connected with the speaker cable, wich gave me dead silence with no hiss.

5. Remove all the connections to the the AVM60, ( hdmi, digital etc) still have the hiss.

6. Turn off all the electronic in the room warming cables, eletronic recliners, dimmer to lightning etc, no sucess.


The strange thing is that I have a Rotel wich is dead silence on the 4x Atmos speaker. I have the ATI under the Rotel with a shelf between them and the ATI is standing on the floor. Could the placement be the problem? Before I have the Marantz 8801 and the Cary on the same speaker and placement with no hiss problem.

I am really out of options, really a pain in the but.

Added to the list;

8. Removed the Rotel in case of interference between the two amps, no luck.





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post #7900 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by johnnygrandis View Post
So I change amp from my Cary 7.125w to the ATI Ncore 8x200w wich is feed by the AVM60.

.
Have you noticed a difference in sound quality between the two amps? How do you like that ATN Ncore amp?
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post #7901 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 03:58 AM
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Have you noticed a difference in sound quality between the two amps? How do you like that ATN Ncore amp?
The ATI is great and a big step up, better dynamics, more airy, extremely liquid sound and better seperations.
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post #7902 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 04:15 AM
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This is also something I don`t understand.

The ARC calibrations test tone is extremely loud on the the 7 ground channel and when it swich to the Rotel wich is connected to my Atmos 4 speaker the spl goes down about 15db.

When I see the spesifications I would assume there is something off.

Rotel:

Rotel Input impedance/sensitivity:33kohms/1.5V
Signal/noise: 115dB, A-weighted


ATI:

AT52Xnc - 1.5V input for 200W RMS Signal/noise:123db

This causes the Rotel to get a +8db boost and the ATI is backed off to about -8db.To my knowledge this should make the ATI more quieter but the in this case the ATI have the hiss sound but the Rotel is dead quiet

Edit; the Atmos speakers have about the same sensitivity.





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post #7903 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 04:30 AM
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Where do I find the mic calibration file?
When I downloaded the ARC software I entered the serial number but the calibration file doesn’t seem to be in the “USB drivers” folder. I’ve read it could be on a CD that came with the device but I 1) don’t remeber seeing a CD 2) don’t have a computer with a disk drive.
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post #7904 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnygrandis View Post
So I change amp from my Cary 7.125w to the ATI Ncore 8x200w wich is feed by the AVM60.

To my surprise I still have the hiss issue from my speakers. I have tried different options and have now contacted my dealer for warranty.



1. I have tried the Ground lift on the XLR cable.

2. Switch from XLR to RCA wich gave me more problem.

3. Switch the outlet and tried on different fuses.

4. I have tried grounding the ATI to the chassi on AVM60.

5. Removed the input XLR but still connected with the speaker cable, wich gave me dead silence with no hiss.

5. Remove all the connections to the the AVM60, ( hdmi, digital etc) still have the hiss.

6. Turn off all the electronic in the room warming cables, eletronic recliners, dimmer to lightning etc, no sucess.


The strange thing is that I have a Rotel wich is dead silence on the 4x Atmos speaker. I have the ATI under the Rotel with a shelf between them and the ATI is standing on the floor. Could the placement be the problem? Before I have the Marantz 8801 and the Cary on the same speaker and placement with no hiss problem.

I am really out of options, really a pain in the but.

Added to the list;

8. Removed the Rotel in case of interference between the two amps, no luck.





that's annoying. I have the the same ATI and get dead silence on my revels.



- How sensitive are the speakers you are running?

- you've moved the balanced/unbalanced selector switch on the ATI?
- have you tried disconnecting the coax/cable (if you have one?0
- have you tried removing the wall dimmer entirely? I had a ground loop that taking one out of 2 wall dimmer out and just putting in a standard switch removed
- reading you're previous posts it seems like the Cary gave you a similar issues. Taking that with you don't get any hiss when the ATI is silent when just connected to the speakers without XLR or RCA attached to it seems to point at it not being the culprit
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post #7905 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 05:17 AM
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that's annoying. I have the the same ATI and get dead silence on my revels.



- How sensitive are the speakers you are running?

- you've moved the balanced/unbalanced selector switch on the ATI?
- have you tried disconnecting the coax/cable (if you have one?0
- have you tried removing the wall dimmer entirely? I had a ground loop that taking one out of 2 wall dimmer out and just putting in a standard switch removed
- reading you're previous posts it seems like the Cary gave you a similar issues. Taking that with you don't get any hiss when the ATI is silent when just connected to the speakers without XLR or RCA attached to it seems to point at it not being the culprit
I think something is off in the AVM60 with gain levels. Its seems to me it have some extreme boost when I try to calibrate wich gives me readings way above 100db on the ground channnel. When it switch to the four Atmos speakers we are down about 15db and the speccs are about the same for the amps. My dealer also think something is off with the gain levels and have sendt Anthem a request.

Do you remember the levels (db) you get when ARC is calibrating with you ATI ?

btw thanks for your suggestions it is all been tried out beside the dimmer wich isnt the problem I can assure you. The problem startet when the AVM60 was bought.





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post #7906 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 05:23 AM
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btw, it seems to me it has a wrong gain structure on the ground levels wich causes these problems and on the Atmos wich is "the right" structure is dead silence. I am almost convinced that there is here the problem lies.





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post #7907 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 06:03 AM
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"5. Remove all the connections to the the AVM60, ( hdmi, digital etc) still have the hiss."

IMO this is pretty conclusive. If the amp with no connections is dead silent, and if the AVM 60 is then connected to the amp with no other connections and hiss is then audible, it seems to point to the AVM 60 as the source of the hiss.

My AVM 60 is connected to an Anthem A5 (BJC Belden 1800F balanced cables). After selecting my blu ray input (BJC Series-FE HDMI connection) with no content and then increasing volume as far is it will go ("00") there is barely audible hiss -- guessing in the 10 to 20 dB range. You have to put your ear 1 to 2 inches from the drivers to hear it -- from 3 feet out, it's inaudible. It's never been a problem in use, but there's no question that hiss is there and it would be nice if it wasn't.
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Last edited by Bill-99; 10-08-2018 at 06:09 AM.
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post #7908 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 07:42 AM
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^ If you have room lighting dimmers in the theater room or adjacent rooms, try removing them from power and see if the “hiss” goes away. Don’t just turn them down; either turn off the power breaker feeding them or use the mechanical switch on the dimmer that disconnects them from power (often described as the switch to use before changing bulbs). Dimmers are a common source of RF interference leading to “hiss”.

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Originally Posted by MajorTendonitis View Post
I’m not understanding the four profiles that much . At least I don’t think you can save four independent ARC curves?
What I do see is the ability to save differant gains and distances on speakers .

One thing I wish they had ,was a volume maximum setting for each input. The Play Fi App could easily blow your speakers or ears if someone inadvertently slid the volume control on my iPad to its highest setting .
When I change my Max volume so this can’t happen , then my movies can’t go loud enough .
There’s there’s a few things I’d tweak if I were an engineer

The Play Fi app volume burst happened to me I almost got my eardrums damaged!!!
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Where do I find the mic calibration file?
When I downloaded the ARC software I entered the serial number but the calibration file doesn’t seem to be in the “USB drivers” folder. I’ve read it could be on a CD that came with the device but I 1) don’t remeber seeing a CD 2) don’t have a computer with a disk drive.
When you see this window here , you click on Browse and in my case I had to scroll up to find the Mic in the folders . I couldn’t find it either till they helped me figure it out. Sorry if this isn’t the issue your having .
Just a note . Get used to choosing the Mic a lot ,as it’s not very well written software
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post #7911 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 09:02 AM
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Not any concern about the gain being so different on the channels?

Question, what db are you calibrating at with ARC, I understand its amp/speaker related but are you getting different readings and extreme different volumes on the different channels ?

I think Anthem have a function problem boosting the gain on the grown speaker (7 channel) and with that extreme boosting of the gain the hiss sound is more present. When then Anthem is connecting to the Atmos speaker the ARC sweep is "normal" like I have experienced with Audyssey and Dirac, and like I said the Atmos speaker is dead quiet even when turning my ear 1cm from them.

The hiss from the rest of the speakers is clearly audible in sweespot with silent scenes and music.





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post #7912 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 09:08 AM
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The Play Fi app volume burst happened to me I almost got my eardrums damaged!!!
I was doing dishes ,and as my iPad Pro was sitting on the kitchen counter , when I went to turn the volume down it went up . Was afraid to try again ,so I made a beeline to the AVM60’s volume control .
Shame they can’t do a firmware update to give the independent inputs separate max volumes

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post #7913 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ If you have room lighting dimmers in the theater room or adjacent rooms, try removing them from power and see if the “hiss” goes away. Don’t just turn them down; either turn off the power breaker feeding them or use the mechanical switch on the dimmer that disconnects them from power (often described as the switch to use before changing bulbs). Dimmers are a common source of RF interference leading to “hiss”.

—Bob
Thank you Bob

I have tried to wipe out all eletronics beside the avm and the amp, still have the hiss.

Three different system have passed in the same enviroment without a problem before the AVM60 turns up making the hiss.
NAD/Marantz/Dirac have had no problem here. I am really liking the AVM60 a lot and it is one of the best performance prosessor in my room so I hope the Anthem will let me try a new one.





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post #7914 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 09:18 AM
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When you see this window here , you click on Browse and in my case I had to scroll up to find the Mic in the folders . I couldn’t find it either till they helped me figure it out. Sorry if this isn’t the issue your having .
Just a note . Get used to choosing the Mic a lot ,as it’s not very well written software
thanks. i actually downloaded the file and was staring right at it like an idiot before i realized what it was.
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post #7915 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 09:20 AM
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thanks. i actually downloaded the file and was staring right at it like an idiot before i realized what it was.
I had a similar issue . Was getting pretty upset and thought I’d never get a test running .
I don’t know how I missed such a simple thing ,as it’s not my first rodeo lol , but these guys came to my rescue
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Anthem AVM60 , Anthem MCA525 .
Panasonic DP-UB820 UHD player .
Paradigm Studio CC690 V5 centre channel , Studio 100 V5’s front and rear . Paradigm PW-2200 subwoofer

Last edited by MajorTendonitis; 10-08-2018 at 09:41 AM.
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post #7916 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ If you have room lighting dimmers in the theater room or adjacent rooms, try removing them from power and see if the “hiss” goes away. Don’t just turn them down; either turn off the power breaker feeding them or use the mechanical switch on the dimmer that disconnects them from power (often described as the switch to use before changing bulbs). Dimmers are a common source of RF interference leading to “hiss”.

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I have 4 dimmers in my house. All switches off, the hiss remains.

Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #7917 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 12:50 PM
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MT said: "This seems very odd to me ,as there’s really not a lot of room correction going on when your only aligning 20-500 hz?"

In my system, that'd be 15 Hz. Other systems go even lower.

What you're saying is essentially correct though there's another way to look at it: ARC lets you correct a problem area in your system rather correct things that aren't issues. It's useful to remember, too, that human speech, singing, and most musical instruments all have some or all of their range at or below 500 Hz. It's a pretty important piece of the audio spectrum.
Let's go to 8hz for fun just to simulate a point that incorporates 16hz (Commonly the lowest not via natural instrument of the pipe organ) on the botton:

8-16hz - Octave 1
16-32hz - Octave 2
32-64hz - Octave 3
64-128hz - Octave 4
128-256hz - Octave 5
256-512hz - Octave 6
512 - 1024hz - Octave 7
1024-2048hz - Octave 8
2048- 4096 -Octave 9
4096-8192 - Octave 10
8192 - 16384 - Octave 11 and essentially the threshold for upper hearing in a middle-aged male.

So center freq. residing up to and through the 7th octave out of 11 total is under 1000hz or 1khz. That's a lot more than you'd think and where the lions share of content is going to reside.
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post #7918 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 01:27 PM
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Well my audio specialist buddy was here briefly , and he’s dead set against running a sub in the front and another in the rear because of phasing issues .
The sub I’d like from SVS is way to deep size wise , and won’t work well where I want it unfortunately.
Guess I’ll make due with what I have for now ,and continue to tweak ARC

LG OLED65B7P.
Anthem AVM60 , Anthem MCA525 .
Panasonic DP-UB820 UHD player .
Paradigm Studio CC690 V5 centre channel , Studio 100 V5’s front and rear . Paradigm PW-2200 subwoofer

Last edited by MajorTendonitis; 10-08-2018 at 01:31 PM.
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post #7919 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MajorTendonitis View Post
Well my audio specialist buddy was here briefly , and he’s dead set against running a sub in the front and another in the rear because of phasing issues .
The sub I’d like from SVS is way to deep size wise , and won’t work well where I want it unfortunately.
Guess I’ll make due with what I have for now ,and continue to tweak ARC
If you have the ability to adjust the phase/delay/distance then I don't know why he'd say that. Subs spread appropriately around a room is the absolute BEST way to get rid of room modes. You can't EQ through a 15dB room null, you CAN add subs in alternate locations to fix it.

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post #7920 of 9585 Old 10-08-2018, 01:50 PM
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If you have the ability to adjust the phase/delay/distance then I don't know why he'd say that. Subs spread appropriately around a room is the absolute BEST way to get rid of room modes. You can't EQ through a 15dB room null, you CAN add subs in alternate locations to fix it.
Well that’s kinda what I thought , but he went to school for this and all

But my theory is , all the gears sitting here anyways ,so what’s to lose if I try ?

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Anthem AVM60 , Anthem MCA525 .
Panasonic DP-UB820 UHD player .
Paradigm Studio CC690 V5 centre channel , Studio 100 V5’s front and rear . Paradigm PW-2200 subwoofer
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