The Official Anthem AVM 60 thread - Page 290 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8671 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 09:33 AM
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Hey guys. Been playing with ARC a lot this week. I have a 5.2.4 setup and find it curious that ARC doesn’t treat my subs as separate speakers and calibrates a “sub”. My second sub is quite a bit closer to my head then the front one and unless I’m doing something wrong ARC sets their levels the same.

Any advice?
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post #8672 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post
Hey guys. Been playing with ARC a lot this week. I have a 5.2.4 setup and find it curious that ARC doesn’t treat my subs as separate speakers and calibrates a “sub”. My second sub is quite a bit closer to my head then the front one and unless I’m doing something wrong ARC sets their levels the same.

Any advice?
The AVM-60 has only a single sub channel, despite 2 sub-out connectors on the back of the unit. Many subs have a way to mess with additional delay and/or phase, which you can use on your closest sub to delay it to that of your further away sub. There are tools like REW which can help in measuring/checking actual delays. Subs can be very tricky to setup. I personally would not mess with phasing to solve delay issues, as that can only solve the problem at a specific frequency while messing with other frequencies.
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post #8673 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 10:30 AM
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I find this concerning. Why would they do this if there are clearly two sub outputs? Many much less expensive units can do two subs. I noticed when I ran ARC with no subs my 9 other speakers came out beautiful very powerful. I tried adding the subs, ran arc and I lost something from the mains. Maybe I will just run arc on the 9’s and manually calibrate my subs.
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post #8674 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post
Hey guys. Been playing with ARC a lot this week. I have a 5.2.4 setup and find it curious that ARC doesn’t treat my subs as separate speakers and calibrates a “sub”. My second sub is quite a bit closer to my head then the front one and unless I’m doing something wrong ARC sets their levels the same.

Any advice?
Are your two subs gain matched before running ARC so that both produce the same output at your MLP?

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post #8675 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 10:39 AM
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Yes both JTR 2400 ULF’s are at max gain.
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post #8676 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 10:48 AM
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No not max gain, gain matched.
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post #8677 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 11:25 AM
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I can do that pretty easily with an SPL meter. They aren’t living in their final locations yet so right now I’m just trying to understand this.
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post #8678 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 12:15 PM
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I can do that pretty easily with an SPL meter. They aren’t living in their final locations yet so right now I’m just trying to understand this.
Make sure you gain match and not level match them. Use the gain/volume control on the back or front of your subs and not the AVM 60 sub level control. Once gain matched each sub would produce the same output with the mic close to the woofer and act as one sub and it won't matter if ARC sets the level as a single sub because once gain matched they play as a single sub the way dual subs should.

Edit: If you want to level match do the same thing except place the mic at the MLP instead of close to the woofers.

This is from page 21 of the AVM 60 manual for multiple subs.

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MULTIPLE SUBWOOFERS: If setting up the traditional way, play the subwoofer test noise with only one subwoofer connected at a time. Set its input level dial so the SPL meter reads 71 dB from the listening area if using two subs, or 67 dB if using four subs. Repeat this for the remaining subs. When all are connected the result should be around 75 dB – make final adjustment in the level calibration menu.

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post #8679 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 12:21 PM
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But they are not equal distance from the MLP. Just use delays on the subs?
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post #8680 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 12:49 PM
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But they are not equal distance from the MLP. Just use delays on the subs?
When the signal gets there doesn't matter(delay), because whether the signal arrives earlier or later than the other sub the level is still the same. 75dB is still 75dB no matter when it arrives. Delay doesn't change decibels.

Now if you mean the phase on the sub then that's different. You want the phase switch on the back or front of each sub set so that the sub measures it's loudest. For instance measure the level of each sub (individually) with the phase knob or switch at 0. Then don't change anything just change the phase knob or switch to 180. Which ever position displayed the loudest on the SPL meter is the position you want the phase switch in.

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post #8681 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 12:54 PM
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Ok I’ve never actually tried that. I’ll give it a shot.
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post #8682 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 01:18 PM
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Ok I’ve never actually tried that. I’ll give it a shot.
Also go back and look at my post about matching. I had to edit it because I was typing too fast. The procedure's are the same except if you are gain matching you put the mic close to the woofers to eliminate the room and when level matching you put the mic at the MLP.

Anthem describes using level matching with ARC because they say place the mic at the listening area which would be the MLP vs placing the mic directly in front of the woofer like gain matching.

Also remember in simplest terms the phase switch controls whether the drivers move in or out of phase with the rest of your system while the delay controls when the signal arrives at your MLP. They are related but different.

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post #8683 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 02:19 PM
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Ok cool. Sorry for not quoting I’m on my phone. So how do I level match in the anthem UI? My Arc setting has my sub level at -3 do I just match them with that test tone or should I use config 2 which is yet to be calibrated and match them at 0 the re-run arc? Sorry I’m just confused....
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post #8684 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 02:56 PM
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Ok cool. Sorry for not quoting I’m on my phone. So how do I level match in the anthem UI? My Arc setting has my sub level at -3 do I just match them with that test tone or should I use config 2 which is yet to be calibrated and match them at 0 the re-run arc? Sorry I’m just confused....
You would need to level match the subs before running ARC. Use an SPL meter to level or gain match each sub individually to 70 or 71dB and then when you check them together they will be around 75dB. You can use an SPL and the test tones from the AVM 60 to level or gain match the two subs. Then run ARC.

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post #8685 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 03:19 PM
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But they are not equal distance from the MLP. Just use delays on the subs?

Did you add the two different distances and divide by two and use the result for the set distance? Mine are not equidistant either, and that's what I did. Not a huge difference in the two distances, but it does seem to work just fine...
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7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
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post #8686 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 03:26 PM
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You guys are geniuses. I level set them ran arc and boom. Sounds great now! I’ll try that distance hack too.
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post #8687 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 03:38 PM
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Ah while I’m at it is there a way to set the AVM up so it automatically switches profiles depending on which input is being used? I have two profiles, one with subs on one without and would like them off only when watching cable as the audio is generally terrible anyway.
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post #8688 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 03:41 PM
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Ah while I’m at it is there a way to set the AVM up so it automatically switches profiles depending on which input is being used? I have two profiles, one with subs on one without and would like them off only when watching cable as the audio is generally terrible anyway.
Yes.

You can create several inputs with the same HDMI source and do different within each.

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post #8689 of 9734 Old 03-09-2019, 04:11 PM
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Ah while I’m at it is there a way to set the AVM up so it automatically switches profiles depending on which input is being used? I have two profiles, one with subs on one without and would like them off only when watching cable as the audio is generally terrible anyway.
Go to the input setup menu and select the input you want to use. In there you'll see Profile Name. Set that to the profile you want to use. You can set every input to any of the four profiles.

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post #8690 of 9734 Old 03-10-2019, 08:30 AM
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You guys are geniuses. I level set them ran arc and boom. Sounds great now! I’ll try that distance hack too.
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Did you add the two different distances and divide by two and use the result for the set distance? Mine are not equidistant either, and that's what I did. Not a huge difference in the two distances, but it does seem to work just fine...

I just wanted to point out that if you have multiple subs at different distances like I do, the correct distance to use in the Anthem is probably not going to be obvious. My two subs are at I think 8 and 12 feet from the MLP, but I found, by using REW, that the best distance setting to use in the Anthem was actually 19 feet. See below. The only difference between each reading is the distance setting used in the Anthem. After doing the comparisons, it became obvious that using a distance setting of 19 feet was the best one since it had the flattest response.



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7.2.4 Setup | Display: LG 77" C8 OLED | Blu-ray: Oppo UDP-203 | Processor: Anthem AVM60 | Amps: Outlaw 7700, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2 | Speakers: Paradigm Prestige (2) 95F's, 55C, (4) 15B's, (4) CI-Elite E65-R (Atmos) | Subs: (2) Rythmik F25's

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post #8691 of 9734 Old 03-10-2019, 08:49 AM
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I just wanted to point out that if you have multiple subs at different distances like I do, the correct distance to use in the Anthem is probably not going to be obvious. My two subs are at I think 8 and 12 feet from the MLP, but I found, by using ARC, that the best distance setting to use in the Anthem was actually 19 feet. See below. The only difference between each reading is the distance setting used in the Anthem. After doing the comparisons, it became obvious that using a distance setting of 19 feet was the best one since it had the flattest response.

Yeah, I think I remember you doing this way back! I've not tried this myself. Maybe when the new ARC releases next month. FWIW, mine are at 7 and 9 feet, so that 8 foot average was kind of a no brainer, but it still merits some new experimentation.

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
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Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
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Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
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post #8692 of 9734 Old 03-10-2019, 08:58 AM
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Yeah, I think I remember you doing this way back! I've not tried this myself. Maybe when the new ARC releases next month. FWIW, mine are at 7 and 9 feet, so that 8 foot average was kind of a no brainer, but it still merits some new experimentation.

If my subs are at 8 and 12 feet, the average would be 10 feet. Take a look at the results of comparing 10 feet and 19 feet in ARC using REW. Pretty noticeable difference.



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7.2.4 Setup | Display: LG 77" C8 OLED | Blu-ray: Oppo UDP-203 | Processor: Anthem AVM60 | Amps: Outlaw 7700, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2 | Speakers: Paradigm Prestige (2) 95F's, 55C, (4) 15B's, (4) CI-Elite E65-R (Atmos) | Subs: (2) Rythmik F25's
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post #8693 of 9734 Old 03-10-2019, 11:51 AM
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If my subs are at 8 and 12 feet, the average would be 10 feet. Take a look at the results of comparing 10 feet and 19 feet in ARC using REW. Pretty noticeable difference.

Yeah it is!! Where are your subs located? I've got mine at the sides of the room, not quite exactly opposite one another (and the room is asymmetric which doesn't help). Alas, they are stuck where they are due to other specific constraints. Still, when the new ARC comes out, I'm gonna do some more investigation along your lines....

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #8694 of 9734 Old 03-10-2019, 07:01 PM
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Yeah it is!! Where are your subs located? I've got mine at the sides of the room, not quite exactly opposite one another (and the room is asymmetric which doesn't help). Alas, they are stuck where they are due to other specific constraints. Still, when the new ARC comes out, I'm gonna do some more investigation along your lines....

My subs are located at roughly the 1/4 points on the side walls, front right and rear left from the MLP. Those were the best locations both using the REW Room Simulation and from actual measurements using the ARC tool that shows real time updates. It looks something like what is shown below. See that 60 Hz null? That showed up in the actual REW measurements as well until I turned the front right sub around 180 degrees to face the wall. Once I did that the 60 Hz null improved by at least 15 db with no other negative effects to the frequency response. I was shocked at how much of an improvement having that one sub face the wall created.


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7.2.4 Setup | Display: LG 77" C8 OLED | Blu-ray: Oppo UDP-203 | Processor: Anthem AVM60 | Amps: Outlaw 7700, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2 | Speakers: Paradigm Prestige (2) 95F's, 55C, (4) 15B's, (4) CI-Elite E65-R (Atmos) | Subs: (2) Rythmik F25's

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post #8695 of 9734 Old 03-11-2019, 06:48 AM
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I just wanted to point out that if you have multiple subs at different distances like I do, the correct distance to use in the Anthem is probably not going to be obvious. My two subs are at I think 8 and 12 feet from the MLP, but I found, by using REW, that the best distance setting to use in the Anthem was actually 19 feet. See below. The only difference between each reading is the distance setting used in the Anthem. After doing the comparisons, it became obvious that using a distance setting of 19 feet was the best one since it had the flattest response.



After messing with adjusting phase for my 4 sealed subs after level matching, I followed Ed Mullen's suggestion and adjusted phase for flatness rather than loudness. Interestingly, this got me back to Anthem's instruction of just level matching and leaving phase at 0 for all 4. I run ARC with the subs 10 dbs hot, ignoring the warning. ARC calibrates to 5000 hz. ARC set the sub calibration at -8. I then raise the volume in each sub by 6 dbs.
Afterwards, I use REW to adjust the distance in Anthem. Although the actual distances vary between 9-15 ft., the best distance is 22 ft.
I don't know what to make of all this, but the sound in my 5100^3, which is also open at back to the side, is terrific.
I have attached my FR graph.
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post #8696 of 9734 Old 03-12-2019, 05:18 PM
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Strange problem

Hi
I just encountered a strange problem on my AVM 60. I turned off my system with my universal remote, but the AVM 60 did not turn off (the TV did) but my AVM 60 did not. Instead of turning off the AVM 60 just changed to a different input. I never had this problem in the year and a half that I have owned the unit. I have the latest firmware. I powered the AVM 60 up again and duplicated what I did and it was fine. This has only happened the once, but any input would be appreciated.


Thanks


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post #8697 of 9734 Old 03-14-2019, 08:43 PM
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New AVM 60 Owner

Just replaced my Emo XMC-1 with an AVM 60 last Friday, and am feeling quite pleased with my decision to make the switch, even though I’ve had minimal time thus far to enjoy the new unit.
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post #8698 of 9734 Old 03-15-2019, 08:18 AM
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HiI just encountered a strange problem on my AVM 60. I turned off my system with my universal remote, but the AVM 60 did not turn off (the TV did) but my AVM 60 did not. Instead of turning off the AVM 60 just changed to a different input. I never had this problem in the year and a half that I have owned the unit. I have the latest firmware. I powered the AVM 60 up again and duplicated what I did and it was fine. This has only happened the once, but any input would be appreciated.

Only once, probably wouldn't be overly concerned. The occasional booger is to be expected in my opinion. Be sure the remote batteries are good.


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Just replaced my Emo XMC-1 with an AVM 60 last Friday, and am feeling quite pleased with my decision to make the switch, even though I’ve had minimal time thus far to enjoy the new unit.

Well, that's what this weekend is for.....
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7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #8699 of 9734 Old 03-15-2019, 03:48 PM
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Hi
I just encountered a strange problem on my AVM 60. I turned off my system with my universal remote, but the AVM 60 did not turn off (the TV did) but my AVM 60 did not. Instead of turning off the AVM 60 just changed to a different input. I never had this problem in the year and a half that I have owned the unit. I have the latest firmware. I powered the AVM 60 up again and duplicated what I did and it was fine. This has only happened the once, but any input would be appreciated.


Thanks


Rob
You might be on the edge of not having enough delay between the power off command to the prior device and the one to the AVM 60, so the AVM 60 got confused. Typically this would cause the command to the AVM 60 to just be ignored, but I suppose it could have been mistakenly seen as an input change command.

Another possibility is that HDMI CEC (remote control over the HDMI cables) got in the way of the power off -- requesting the AVM 60 stay powered up for that other input. If you have HDMI CEC enabled in the AVM 60, and the problem happens again, try disabling it to test.
--Bob
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post #8700 of 9734 Old 03-16-2019, 02:15 PM
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Running Atmos with 2 overhead speakers

Hey guys. The attached diagram from Anthem’s manual shows the 2 in-ceiling speakers in front of the MLP. So in this case, would in-ceilings be “middle” or “front” in ARC’s settings if my speakers are 5 feet in front of my seats? Also, if I’m to run a 5.1.2 Atmos configuration is it better to have the in-ceilings in front of or Behind the listening position? Which typically sounds better? TIA
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Speakers: KEF R300 (R,L), KEF R600C (C), JBL 306p mkII (Surrounds), KEF Ci160QR (In-Ceiling) Subs: JTR Captivator S1 x2 Processor/Amps: Anthem AVM60, ATI AT4003, Rotel RB985 mkII Misc: ATV 4k, Sony PS4, Samsung K8500, MiniDSP 2x4HD Video: BenQ HT2050, 100” Screen Room: 2500 cu sq. ft. sealed on suspended floor
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