The Official Anthem AVM 60 thread - Page 313 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9361 of 9734 Old 05-27-2019, 07:49 PM
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Hi guys,

Been extremely pleased with the new GENESIS Software, however I am contemplating on purchasing a Trinnov Altitude 16 as an upgrade. Have anyone here ever heard a Trinnov and if so how does it compare to the AVM 60 interms of sound quality? Thank you

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post #9362 of 9734 Old 05-28-2019, 12:23 AM
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Sorry if this has been asked in the past, and sorry if this is not allowed. I have been interested in the avm60 for years, but since it is getting long in tooth from a technology standpoint at this point and with genesis being released is it reasonable to think we will see a replacement in the next 6 months? just debating if I should hold off.
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post #9363 of 9734 Old 05-28-2019, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyTom83 View Post
Sorry if this has been asked in the past, and sorry if this is not allowed. I have been interested in the avm60 for years, but since it is getting long in tooth from a technology standpoint at this point and with genesis being released is it reasonable to think we will see a replacement in the next 6 months? just debating if I should hold off.
I had the same question some pages back. I'm also waiting because this is almost 3 years old and I know if I buy one that a new one will come out right after lol

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post #9364 of 9734 Old 05-28-2019, 10:11 AM
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Could I get your thoughts on the results of my first ARC Genesis run?

Software version 1.0.2 (8867) was used in automatic mode. The mic was at ear level for the MLP, 6" lower for the front pair of measurements and 6" higher for the back pair. Distance from the MLP was slightly more than 2'. Everything worked and it seemed straightforward.

Resulting sound quality is pretty good, with more detail than ARC-2 and output level all boosted as well… pretty much what everyone has been posting here and on the other Anthem thread.

But I have some reservations.

Guidance sometimes posted is to never EQ above Shroder. Under ARC-2 MaxEQ was set to 500 because my in-room response was pretty flat above 500 Hz. Here it defaults to 5K and there's a drop in the 5k to 20k range that's new. Is this something to worry about or is ARC Genesis a fundamentally different thing?

What changes / tweaks would be good to try? It's not clear what the next step should be and it feels a bit like tinkering without enough info.


Other thoughts and suggestions welcome!
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Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #9365 of 9734 Old 05-28-2019, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
Could I get your thoughts on the results of my first ARC Genesis run?

Guidance sometimes posted is to never EQ above Shroder.
Ignore that "common wisdom."

Quote:
Under ARC-2 MaxEQ was set to 500 because my in-room response was pretty flat above 500 Hz. Here it defaults to 5K and there's a drop in the 5k to 20k range that's new. Is this something to worry about or is ARC Genesis a fundamentally different thing?
The measurements look quite plausible. Is this the same mic pattern you used in the past?

Quote:
What changes / tweaks would be good to try? It's not clear what the next step should be and it feels a bit like tinkering without enough info.
If it were my kit, I would leave Profile 1 alone, and activate a second profile (Set Up Speaker Profiles) with some changes to try out:

1) In Set Speaker Levels, add 2 dB to the L and R channels, and 1 dB to C channel. This in order to better align the measured curves to the target curve above 5 kHz.

2) In Adjust Targets, set Room Gain to 0.00.

3) Set the Crossover Frequency for C speaker to 80 Hz

4) Leave the Max EQ at 5 kHz for all.

Give it a listen and compare it to Profile 1. The difference will be subtle, probably most evident on music.

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post #9366 of 9734 Old 05-28-2019, 01:01 PM
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^This mic pattern is new for me. Best results in the past were mic positions in a big "U", with the bottom of the "U" being the MLP. Depending on what Anthem did to ARC, that might be worth a try again... or it might not.

I like your ideas on a second profile and will give that a try.

Thanks, Roger.

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post #9367 of 9734 Old 05-29-2019, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
Hi guys,

Been extremely pleased with the new GENESIS Software, however I am contemplating on purchasing a Trinnov Altitude 16 as an upgrade. Have anyone here ever heard a Trinnov and if so how does it compare to the AVM 60 interms of sound quality? Thank you

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
While I think ARC does a fine job, Trinnov is just on another level in every way. The altitude SHOULD take you to another level though for the price of entry... But regardless, Trinnov is special.

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Guidance sometimes posted is to never EQ above Shroder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Ignore that "common wisdom."
Ignore findings of one of audio's most scholarly and studied acousticians and scientists in the past 40 years? Perfectly fine to suggest that but why not set up a third profile with the EQ limited to 500hz and see what sounds better for Bill? I did the same thing on my avm60 and the results spoke for themselves. When starting with a very accurate speaker, it's worth a shot.
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post #9368 of 9734 Old 05-29-2019, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Ignore findings of one of audio's most scholarly and studied acousticians and scientists in the past 40 years?
Not I.

Quote:
Perfectly fine to suggest that but why not set up a third profile with the EQ limited to 500hz and see what sounds better for Bill? I did the same thing on my avm60 and the results spoke for themselves. When starting with a very accurate speaker, it's worth a shot.
Emphasis added. That's the key premise upon which all such advice about limiting correction range is based. So do we agree that it is permissible to extend the correction range when the speakers are not so accurate?

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post #9369 of 9734 Old 05-29-2019, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Not I.

Emphasis added. That's the key premise upon which all such advice about limiting correction range is based. So do we agree that it is permissible to extend the correction range when the speakers are not so accurate?
Ok, missed the facetiousness of the comment there and glad we are on the same page. I would agree it is permissible to extend if the speakers aren't so accurate, maybe even for your non-Harman Adam's (This was totally in jest)

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post #9370 of 9734 Old 05-29-2019, 01:50 PM
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Ok, missed the facetiousness of the comment there and glad we are on the same page. I would agree it is permissible to extend if the speakers aren't so accurate, maybe even for your non-Harman Adam's (This was totally in jest)
I was not being facetious when I advised Bill-99 to ignore. The key in his post was to "never" EQ above Schroeder. Never say never!

On the matter of my Adam L/C/R, I have ARC MaxEQ set to the lowest frequency possible, 200 Hz. Love that new feature of Genesis.
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post #9371 of 9734 Old 05-29-2019, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
Hi guys,

Been extremely pleased with the new GENESIS Software, however I am contemplating on purchasing a Trinnov Altitude 16 as an upgrade. Have anyone here ever heard a Trinnov and if so how does it compare to the AVM 60 interms of sound quality? Thank you

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
Trinov's mic is far superior to Anthem's and combined with their on board processing adds more customisation to the sound profile that can be tuned to your liking (Trinnov tell us dealers its our 'special sauce')
Another thing you need to add to your Trinnov purchase is the 3D audio codec.
Without it you'll be limited to the standard HD Audio codecs.
If your running anything less then 7.1.4 then it may be slightly excessive unless you really want to add more precise timing control and bass management.
It is an amazing product that you won't need to worry about being redundant when new standards and codecs come to market.
I've not compared directly but for me the AVM60 gives enough for my 7.1.2 setup.

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post #9372 of 9734 Old 05-29-2019, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wtabram View Post
Trinov's mic is far superior to Anthem's and combined with their on board processing adds more customisation to the sound profile that can be tuned to your liking (Trinnov tell us dealers its our 'special sauce')
Another thing you need to add to your Trinnov purchase is the 3D audio codec.
Without it you'll be limited to the standard HD Audio codecs.
If your running anything less then 7.1.4 then it may be slightly excessive unless you really want to add more precise timing control and bass management.
It is an amazing product that you won't need to worry about being redundant when new standards and codecs come to market.
I've not compared directly but for me the AVM60 gives enough for my 7.1.2 setup.

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Thank you for your input. The 3D codecs are free with the Altitude 16 at least that's what I have been told.. Thank you

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post #9373 of 9734 Old 05-29-2019, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
While I think ARC does a fine job, Trinnov is just on another level in every way. The altitude SHOULD take you to another level though for the price of entry... But regardless, Trinnov is special.











Ignore findings of one of audio's most scholarly and studied acousticians and scientists in the past 40 years? Perfectly fine to suggest that but why not set up a third profile with the EQ limited to 500hz and see what sounds better for Bill? I did the same thing on my avm60 and the results spoke for themselves. When starting with a very accurate speaker, it's worth a shot.
Thanks Beast, do you still own the Anthem AVM60? Have you considered the Trinnov? How do they compare in terms of sound quality when watching movies..?

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post #9374 of 9734 Old 05-29-2019, 03:15 PM
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Thank you for your input. The 3D codecs are free with the Altitude 16 at least that's what I have been told.. Thank you

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Just checked and yes your correct, 3D audio is included with the altitude 16.
Pretty sure it Limited to the 16 channels though. So if you did want to expand beyond 16 channels you would have to upgrade to an Altitude 32. One option albeit a more expensive one would be to use an Altitude 32-16. That way you can add expansion cards for when you decide to add those extra channels...
Given the right scenario I'm sure Tom ( there's not a lot he doesn't know about immersive audio) would even support you in the Configuration and setup.

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post #9375 of 9734 Old 05-29-2019, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by wtabram View Post
Just checked and yes your correct, 3D audio is included with the altitude 16.
Pretty sure it Limited to the 16 channels though. So if you did want to expand beyond 16 channels you would have to upgrade to an Altitude 32. One option albeit a more expensive one would be to use an Altitude 32-16. That way you can add expansion cards for when you decide to add those extra channels...
Given the right scenario I'm sure Tom ( there's not a lot he doesn't know about immersive audio) would even support you in the Configuration and setup.

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Thank you. Sorry who is Tom?
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post #9376 of 9734 Old 05-30-2019, 01:36 AM
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Thank you. Sorry who is Tom?
Tom Garrett is the sales manager for the EMEA Region.


Taken from a press release

Over his career, he has worked across all sectors of the industry but is best known for launching and building the Anthem AV solutions business in the UK as its Technical Director with brands including Trinnov, Anthem, Paradigm and SIM2



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post #9377 of 9734 Old 05-30-2019, 01:51 AM
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StormAudio can be up to 32 channels. Decoding goes up to 16 channels
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post #9378 of 9734 Old 05-30-2019, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
Thanks Beast, do you still own the Anthem AVM60? Have you considered the Trinnov? How do they compare in terms of sound quality when watching movies..?

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I do still own the anthem but it hasn't been in my rack for some time now. I moved on to the Lexicon MC-10, but next step for me after I win the lotto is to bump further up to the sdp-75 which will then grant me full access to JBL's SFM calibration and trinnov to boot. I have not heard a trinnov processor yet but the reviews of anyone who has are pretty unanimous when it comes to trinnov's room calibration compared to all others: It's just better.


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StormAudio can be up to 32 channels. Decoding goes up to 16 channels
Storm audio uses dirac however....just for clarification.
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post #9379 of 9734 Old 05-30-2019, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I do still own the anthem but it hasn't been in my rack for some time now. I moved on to the Lexicon MC-10, but next step for me after I win the lotto is to bump further up to the sdp-75 which will then grant me full access to JBL's SFM calibration and trinnov to boot. I have not heard a trinnov processor yet but the reviews of anyone who has are pretty unanimous when it comes to trinnov's room calibration compared to all others: It's just better.




Storm audio uses dirac however....just for clarification.
I can confirm after recently owning 8802a, 8805, Bryston Sp4 (Storm) and now Trinnov. The optimizer/room calibration abilities of the Trinnov are light years ahead of anyone else. The price of entry is steep but they have something no one else can compete with at this point IMO.
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post #9380 of 9734 Old 05-30-2019, 08:44 AM
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I can confirm after recently owning 8802a, 8805, Bryston Sp4 (Storm) and now Trinnov. The optimizer/room calibration abilities of the Trinnov are light years ahead of anyone else. The price of entry is steep but they have something no one else can compete with at this point IMO.
It's these same type of comments that I hear almost EVERY time someone transitions to a trinnov processor of any sort. Ugh, I need to sell some things. You know, public transportation in my home town is pretty nice. I don't REALLY need a car.

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post #9381 of 9734 Old 05-30-2019, 06:06 PM
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Hey all,

I just moved from an Integra DHC-80.2 to the AVM60 this weekend. Im finding my way through some of the idiosyncrasies but I did manage to get Genesis running successfully.

If anyone is feeling charitable, I too would love to hear impressions/tips based on this first and only pass through the Auto setup.

Cheers

-J
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post #9382 of 9734 Old 05-30-2019, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Ignore that "common wisdom."

The measurements look quite plausible. Is this the same mic pattern you used in the past?

If it were my kit, I would leave Profile 1 alone, and activate a second profile (Set Up Speaker Profiles) with some changes to try out:

1) In Set Speaker Levels, add 2 dB to the L and R channels, and 1 dB to C channel. This in order to better align the measured curves to the target curve above 5 kHz.

2) In Adjust Targets, set Room Gain to 0.00.

3) Set the Crossover Frequency for C speaker to 80 Hz

4) Leave the Max EQ at 5 kHz for all.

Give it a listen and compare it to Profile 1. The difference will be subtle, probably most evident on music.
Roger, a quick follow up...

I tried the changes you suggested and that didn't turn out so good. It introduced a layer of distortion. So I dropped back to profile1 for now. The game plan is to live with this a while and get used to how it sounds as a first step (the Anthem recommendation), and then resume the tweaking.

For a sanity check, I dropped back to my best ARC-2 settings which now seem a step backward -- flatter and less detailed, I think. It was back to ARC Genesis tonight which was a sonic relief.

Regardless, thanks for the ideas. No doubt I'll be revisiting them around mid June.
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post #9383 of 9734 Old 05-30-2019, 07:17 PM
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ARC Genesis and MiniDSP 2x4HD issues?

Anyone try tuning multiple subwoofers that aren’t equidistant from the main listener with the new ARC Genesis software while also using a MiniDSP 2x4HD? The main purpose for using the MiniDSP being that it can allow independent time delay controls for more than one subwoofer and also allow parametric equalization (PEQ) to flatten bass response.

The big issue with using ARC-2 to tune my subs was that the corrected graph showed that ARC had flattened the bass response. But when I pulled up my mic and REW to measure the actual bass frequency it was anything but flat, unlike what ARC-2 showed!

Anyone have insight on the proper way to combine ARC and a MiniDSP? Has ARC Genesis improved on calibrating multiple subs? Lastly, if one wants to run PEQ’s through their MiniDSP is ARC run before or afterwards? TIA.

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post #9384 of 9734 Old 05-30-2019, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by leehan76 View Post
Anyone try tuning multiple subwoofers that aren’t equidistant from the main listener with the new ARC Genesis software while also using a MiniDSP 2x4HD? The main purpose for using the MiniDSP being that it can allow independent time delay controls for more than one subwoofer and also allow parametric equalization (PEQ) to flatten bass response.
I'm doing that. The front pair of subs has different EQ and delay than the rear pair. Then Genesis has very little to do.

Quote:
The big issue with using ARC-2 to tune my subs was that the corrected graph showed that ARC had flattened the bass response. But when I pulled up my mic and REW to measure the actual bass frequency it was anything but flat, unlike what ARC-2 showed!
Even if you made 5 measurements with REW, it probably does not use the same algorithm to determine the composite error curve. No single REW sweep will look like the ARC curve.

Quote:
Anyone have insight on the proper way to combine ARC and a MiniDSP? Has ARC Genesis improved on calibrating multiple subs? Lastly, if one wants to run PEQ’s through their MiniDSP is ARC run before or afterwards? TIA.
Do the adjustments in the MiniDSP first. Then measure with ARC and see what it will add to the sub. If you want to alter it, there are the various adjustments in the target window. If you want to tell ARC to be hands off, you can set the Min EQ Frequency to 120 Hz (or thereabouts) and it will not do anything below that.
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Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win10 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
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post #9385 of 9734 Old 05-30-2019, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
I'm doing that. The front pair of subs has different EQ and delay than the rear pair. Then Genesis has very little to do.

Even if you made 5 measurements with REW, it probably does not use the same algorithm to determine the composite error curve. No single REW sweep will look like the ARC curve.

Do the adjustments in the MiniDSP first. Then measure with ARC and see what it will add to the sub. If you want to alter it, there are the various adjustments in the target window. If you want to tell ARC to be hands off, you can set the Min EQ Frequency to 120 Hz (or thereabouts) and it will not do anything below that.
I fully agree that the REW measurements and even post-ARC measurements can look nothing alike! Last time I applied PEQ on the MiniDSP together w/ ARC the bass got botched big time w/ output getting reduced tremendously after ARC-2 did it’s corrections.

I’ve indeed been setting the min. Eq. Frequency to 120 Hz so that ARC doesn’t flatten the response below 120. Absolutely love what the MiniDSP can do in terms of using PeQ’s for bass quality. Just wary about what improvements Genesis has brought to the table for people like you and me with multiple subwoofers non-equidistant. I think I will indeed try to various adjustments in the target window as you mentioned. Thanks for that. I don’t believe that was a feature of ARC-2

Speakers: KEF R300 (R,L), KEF R600C (C), JBL 306p mkII (Surrounds), KEF Ci160QR (In-Ceiling) Subs: JTR Captivator S1 x2 Processor/Amps: Anthem AVM60, ATI AT4003, Rotel RB985 mkII Misc: ATV 4k, Sony PS4, Samsung K8500, MiniDSP 2x4HD Video: BenQ HT2050, 100” Screen Room: 2500 cu sq. ft. sealed on suspended floor

Last edited by leehan76; 05-30-2019 at 08:55 PM.
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post #9386 of 9734 Old 05-30-2019, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by leehan76 View Post
I fully agree that the REW measurements and even post-ARC measurements can look nothing alike! Last time I applied PEQ on the MiniDSP together w/ ARC the bass got botched big time w/ output getting reduced tremendously after ARC-2 did it’s corrections.
Have you tried adding "Deep Bass Boost"? I have it set for 5 dB so that it creates a tilt upward as frequency drops.
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post #9387 of 9734 Old 05-31-2019, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I do still own the anthem but it hasn't been in my rack for some time now. I moved on to the Lexicon MC-10, but next step for me after I win the lotto is to bump further up to the sdp-75 which will then grant me full access to JBL's SFM calibration and trinnov to boot. I have not heard a trinnov processor yet but the reviews of anyone who has are pretty unanimous when it comes to trinnov's room calibration compared to all others: It's just better.









Storm audio uses dirac however....just for clarification.
The SDP 75 is the OEM version of the Altitude 32 so it essentially a Trinnov albeit more expensive due to the JBL name on it..

How do you compare the Lexicon MC10 with the Anthem?

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post #9388 of 9734 Old 05-31-2019, 02:47 AM
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Folks, your assistance please. I am trying to download the beta version of ARC Genesis to my iMac. I uninstalled the original version but when I try to install the new beta version I get “ARC Genesis v1.1.0.8908.pkg” can’t be opened because Apple cannot check it for malicious software. I called Anthem yesterday and they said it was because I had not uninstalled the original version. Very frustrating.
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post #9389 of 9734 Old 05-31-2019, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Hairsonfire View Post
Folks, your assistance please. I am trying to download the beta version of ARC Genesis to my iMac. I uninstalled the original version but when I try to install the new beta version I get “ARC Genesis v1.1.0.8908.pkg” can’t be opened because Apple cannot check it for malicious software. I called Anthem yesterday and they said it was because I had not uninstalled the original version. Very frustrating.
Oops, never mind, I figured it out. Apparently, you can ignore that and continue to install it . . . I feel stupid now . . . well, more than usual.
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post #9390 of 9734 Old 05-31-2019, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by leehan76 View Post
Anyone try tuning multiple subwoofers that aren’t equidistant from the main listener with the new ARC Genesis software while also using a MiniDSP 2x4HD? The main purpose for using the MiniDSP being that it can allow independent time delay controls for more than one subwoofer and also allow parametric equalization (PEQ) to flatten bass response.

The big issue with using ARC-2 to tune my subs was that the corrected graph showed that ARC had flattened the bass response. But when I pulled up my mic and REW to measure the actual bass frequency it was anything but flat, unlike what ARC-2 showed!

Anyone have insight on the proper way to combine ARC and a MiniDSP? Has ARC Genesis improved on calibrating multiple subs? Lastly, if one wants to run PEQ’s through their MiniDSP is ARC run before or afterwards? TIA.
I have a minidsp with Dirac in the chain between source and DAC in my stereo 2.2 system. It does a great job. Although ARC2 did not do the same job with my 7.4 surround system with 4 subs that are not equidistant, Genesis does an equally good job as Dirac. All I did was adjust sub phase and level match before Genesis. Results are terrific. For me, no need for minidsp with Genesis.
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