The Official Anthem AVM 60 thread - Page 315 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9421 of 9522 Old 06-07-2019, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kansashoops View Post
Seems doubtful. There's really no reason for them to replace it until some new technology comes out that they can't support with a firmware update. Plus they essentially just did a new major upgrade of it when they released ARC Genesis.
I agree here. There's nothing that feels "old" about it now, and with Genesis, they've added more dynamics and better bass response to the already good room correction in place. It does feel like a new preamp in that regard, and it works flawlessly with the material available today.

If I'm Anthem, I don't start cranking out new preamps with HDMI 2.1 until the broadcast and blu ray source material is actually producing 120+ Hz refresh rates and native 4K as a standard. And with streaming taking over in it's compressed garbage form, that makes it even more problematic.

If broadcast television will skip the 1080p level and go straight to 4K with high refresh rates, that would be the real ticket. Streaming would have to catch up, including in the audio area with pure Atmos capability.

That seems no time soon. Probably 5+ years away.
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post #9422 of 9522 Old 06-07-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
If broadcast television will skip the 1080p level and go straight to 4K with high refresh rates, that would be the real ticket. Streaming would have to catch up, including in the audio area with pure Atmos capability.

That seems no time soon. Probably 5+ years away.
I was just thinking about this Wednesday night while watching the NBA finals. While the actual game looked decent enough, some lower res 1080i or 720 commercials were coming on and I was thinking, how in the world did anyone think streaming 4K/HDR/Atmos would be done right when they still can't get a quality 1080P signal via cable or satellite providers with billions of dollars on the line?
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post #9423 of 9522 Old 06-07-2019, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I was just thinking about this Wednesday night while watching the NBA finals. While the actual game looked decent enough, some lower res 1080i or 720 commercials were coming on and I was thinking, how in the world did anyone think streaming 4K/HDR/Atmos would be done right when they still can't get a quality 1080P signal via cable or satellite providers with billions of dollars on the line?
Therein lies the problem.

The industry hasn't dialed in what these 30-under folks are going to actually want and buy. So they do nothing, which is a HUGE mistake. If they could broadcast a 4K or 8K picture with a 240Hz refresh rate, Dolby Vision/HDR10+, and full Atmos capability, they'd get their market back.

Instead, they're content to lag two resolutions behind with compressed 5.1 audio and lightning storm service interruptions. It's still 2005 in their world. The equipment is waiting for them to get off their collective ass.
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post #9424 of 9522 Old 06-07-2019, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
Therein lies the problem.

The industry hasn't dialed in what these 30-under folks are going to actually want and buy. So they do nothing, which is a HUGE mistake. If they could broadcast a 4K or 8K picture with a 240Hz refresh rate, Dolby Vision/HDR10+, and full Atmos capability, they'd get their market back.

Instead, they're content to lag two resolutions behind with compressed 5.1 audio and lightning storm service interruptions. It's still 2005 in their world. The equipment is waiting for them to get off their collective ass.
You're also talking about a generation of folks many of which don't even have TV's. They watch TV on their phones. No point in broadcasting 4K when a large portion of their audience is streaming it to a 4" screen.

I predict we are going to see the mid-level AV gear market start to die out. The newer generations aren't into rooms full of speakers, uncompressed hi-res audio and 4K projectors with 130" screens. They walk around with their compressed iTunes tracks pumped through god-awful sounding Beats headphones. I think in about 10 or 15 years you'll see very little of the mid-level AV gear we talk about today. It'll either be low-budget soundbars or ultra high-end boutique stuff. No in-between. </soapbox>
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post #9425 of 9522 Old 06-07-2019, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by HarleyRider View Post
You're also talking about a generation of folks many of which don't even have TV's. They watch TV on their phones. No point in broadcasting 4K when a large portion of their audience is streaming it to a 4" screen.

I predict we are going to see the mid-level AV gear market start to die out. The newer generations aren't into rooms full of speakers, uncompressed hi-res audio and 4K projectors with 130" screens. They walk around with their compressed iTunes tracks pumped through god-awful sounding Beats headphones. I think in about 10 or 15 years you'll see very little of the mid-level AV gear we talk about today. It'll either be low-budget soundbars or ultra high-end boutique stuff. No in-between. </soapbox>
I say this frequently around here as well.

Hopefully, we're both wrong and this is just a blip in the evolutionary process where our species went brain-dead for a generation.

The industry isn't helping. Content is woefully lagging along. Most movies today are childish. Political agenda is dictating what films are being made and how.

Again, I hope it's just a phase.
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post #9426 of 9522 Old 06-08-2019, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
Hopefully, we're both wrong and this is just a blip in the evolutionary process where our species went brain-dead for a generation.

Though the evidence is anecdotal (for now....), I believe this is the case. I weep for this current generation on so many levels, decent audio and video aside......

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post #9427 of 9522 Old 06-08-2019, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
I agree here. There's nothing that feels "old" about it now, and with Genesis, they've added more dynamics and better bass response to the already good room correction in place. It does feel like a new preamp in that regard, and it works flawlessly with the material available today.

If I'm Anthem, I don't start cranking out new preamps with HDMI 2.1 until the broadcast and blu ray source material is actually producing 120+ Hz refresh rates and native 4K as a standard. And with streaming taking over in it's compressed garbage form, that makes it even more problematic.

If broadcast television will skip the 1080p level and go straight to 4K with high refresh rates, that would be the real ticket. Streaming would have to catch up, including in the audio area with pure Atmos capability.

That seems no time soon. Probably 5+ years away.
After watching four movies since my Genesis calibration on Monday night, I couldn't agree more in regards to the feeling of having a "new" pre-amp. Everything just sounds "cleaner" and more dynamic, even with the issues we had in regards to getting all my subs set up correctly. Once that gets done, I can only imagine how the overall performance will be.

We just watched a heavy dialog movie tonight and it was amazing.... guess it also is like getting new speakers too.
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post #9428 of 9522 Old 06-09-2019, 04:25 PM
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Another Genesis post.... I did just default with no edits. Sounds so much better for atmos content!


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post #9429 of 9522 Old 06-10-2019, 11:45 AM
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I'd love some form of release notes on exactly how Anthem changed the algorithms to get the results you guys are now getting. That would be some great info.
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post #9430 of 9522 Old 06-12-2019, 06:37 PM
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Bad microphone?

My ARC curves looked surprising - a nearly identical 5dB suckout from 1khz to 5khz on all my speakers, including atmos overheads of a different brand than the mains.

So, I did an arc genesis "quick measure" with the power amps turned off to see what silence sounded like to my mic, picture attached.

This looks utterly broken to me - is there something I don't understand about the measurement process?

Has anyone else tried measuring their mic with no sound like this?
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post #9431 of 9522 Old 06-12-2019, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ManMower View Post
My ARC curves looked surprising - a nearly identical 5dB suckout from 1khz to 5khz on all my speakers, including atmos overheads of a different brand than the mains.

So, I did an arc genesis "quick measure" with the power amps turned off to see what silence sounded like to my mic, picture attached.

This looks utterly broken to me - is there something I don't understand about the measurement process?

Has anyone else tried measuring their mic with no sound like this?
All of your speakers? Could it be your mic?

Try reloading ARC-2 and running it again and see what you get. If it doesn't have that dip with the old ARC, kill the Genesis app and reload it.

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post #9432 of 9522 Old 06-12-2019, 07:11 PM
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Something that I never have understood with ARC.

I could run Genesis 4 times with the mic positions in the same positions, and I'd get 3 or 4 different different subwoofer low extensio slope settings. It's a crapshoot of which order I get set to (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th).

With ARC-2, I usually got 3rd or 4th. With Genesis, it's usually 1st or 2nd, maybe 3rd.

Why the inconsistency? In other measurements like crossovers and channel levels, it's very consistent. But not in sub settings. They end to vary.

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post #9433 of 9522 Old 06-13-2019, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
Something that I never have understood with ARC.

I could run Genesis 4 times with the mic positions in the same positions, and I'd get 3 or 4 different different subwoofer low extensio slope settings. It's a crapshoot of which order I get set to (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th).

With ARC-2, I usually got 3rd or 4th. With Genesis, it's usually 1st or 2nd, maybe 3rd.

Why the inconsistency? In other measurements like crossovers and channel levels, it's very consistent. But not in sub settings. They end to vary.
Sub response is difficult enough to measure. Then toss in a run-of-the-mill $10 mic and you'll see some discrepancies. The mic is still nicer than the $5 audyssey mics, but it's still just a little pill mic...with a calibration file or not, you won't get results like you will with an aco-pacific. It's just too bad you can't BYO mic for calibration.

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post #9434 of 9522 Old 06-13-2019, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Sub response is difficult enough to measure. Then toss in a run-of-the-mill $10 mic and you'll see some discrepancies. The mic is still nicer than the $5 audyssey mics, but it's still just a little pill mic...with a calibration file or not, you won't get results like you will with an aco-pacific. It's just too bad you can't BYO mic for calibration.
Is there a recommended "order" we should change our measurements to? Is there a "best" order for home theater surround?

I also notice the low pass is set anywhere between 20 Hz and 25 Hz randomly.

Is any of this even audible in the end?

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post #9435 of 9522 Old 06-13-2019, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
Is there a recommended "order" we should change our measurements to? Is there a "best" order for home theater surround?

I also notice the low pass is set anywhere between 20 Hz and 25 Hz randomly.

Is any of this even audible in the end?
Having not used genesis myself I can only comment on what worked with the prior version for me but that was to cluster the measurements a little closer around the MLP. No mic positions any further than 12" from the first measurement point that should be dead center and ear-level to the MLP. If this puts your mic below the headrest of your seat/couch, you may want to place a blanket over the seat to quell any direct reflections off the sofa/chair.

The first measurement is by far the most important so peg that and the rest follow the above suggestion, whilst varying the height of the mic slightly. The "order" is inconsequential really, just follow ARC's suggestions.

For the second part, are you telling me ARC is setting a LPF for your sub? I would hope that wouldn't be the case and is something already built in to the sub if it even needs a LPF. TBH I would NEVER use a room EQ system that sets a LPF on its own and would defeat anything set in almost any case. There is TON of content between 20 and 25hz in action movies, and as well, plenty of stuff below 20hz too. Keep in mind from 15-25hz is almost a full octave.
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post #9436 of 9522 Old 06-14-2019, 05:23 AM
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Hi! I'm sure this has been answered before but to save me hours of reading this thread, has anyone figured out how to convert the Anthem's trigger to pulse with every state change? My amps use pulsed triggers and the Anthem uses on and off.

BTW, for all your Genesis questions, there's a dedicated thread for those and the link is in my sig

Thanks
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post #9437 of 9522 Old 06-14-2019, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mitchlampert View Post
Hi! I'm sure this has been answered before but to save me hours of reading this thread, has anyone figured out how to convert the Anthem's trigger to pulse with every state change? My amps use pulsed triggers and the Anthem uses on and off.
Feel like a DIY project? I cooked this up as a non-powered option. Would need to use relays with low current coils.
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post #9438 of 9522 Old 06-14-2019, 07:24 PM
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dual subs setup questions...

I just upgraded from a single subwoofer to 2 subwoofers and I am unsure of the settings.

So... should i be seeing 2 subwoofers in the Speaker Setup section? The reason I ask is when I ran arc genesis only one subwoofer was calibrated with the tones. When I ran test tones both speakers received tones. So this confused me.

Also, in listener position, I was unable to set the distance to the subwoofers. It was 'N/A'. The very helpful JL Audio tech ran me through the calibration process for the subs and one of the steps in the process was to set the correct distance.

I have a few arc genesis questions regarding the calibration of the subs which I will ask once I get this setup straightened out.

Thank you!
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post #9439 of 9522 Old 06-14-2019, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbynw View Post
I just upgraded from a single subwoofer to 2 subwoofers and I am unsure of the settings.

So... should i be seeing 2 subwoofers in the Speaker Setup section?
No.

Quote:
The reason I ask is when I ran arc genesis only one subwoofer was calibrated with the tones. When I ran test tones both speakers received tones. So this confused me.
Are you sure one of the subs was silent when you ran ARC? Try disconnecting one at a time and trying quick measure to see if you hear it.

Quote:
Also, in listener position, I was unable to set the distance to the subwoofers. It was 'N/A'.
Make sure the speaker setup menu has the subwoofer enabled. Otherwise, not sure what's wrong.

Quote:
I have a few arc genesis questions regarding the calibration of the subs which I will ask once I get this setup straightened out.
Maybe this thread will have the info you seek.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...is-thread.html

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post #9440 of 9522 Old 06-15-2019, 05:21 AM
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I've been researching processors for what seems like months now. I'm constantly drawn back to the AVM 60 as the one to beat. One of my main lingering doubts is ARC vs. Dirac. It's slim pickings for Dirac 7.1.4 processors right now, but it's possible that the new Monoprice unit will be a winner, and there is still a (small) chance that Emotiva will get their train wreck back on the rails.

I've just about eliminated Marantz (reliability concerns, too much unnecessary crapola on board, and Audyssey seems to be second rate).
Onkyo/Integra does not have good room correction, and does not have parametric EQ. Also reliability concerns.
I've considered a Yamaha AX-5200 with outboard miniDSP Dirac units, but that pushes the cost up into Arcam territory. And no factory rack mount kit for the Yamaha. And it's a complicated "three box" solution.

So back to the AVM 60:
Is ARC good enough? I have a good sounding room and can do treatments, so not a lot of correction needed anyway.
Is HDMI switching reliable and reasonably quick?
Does audio cut out when switching format (DD5.1 to DD2.0, for example) and does it chop of the very beginning of songs like so many processors do?
Is the IP control protocol comprehensive and bug free?

I won't be ready to buy for a while yet since the theater is still a work in progress. I'm probably looking at fourth quarter before I need to make a decision.

thanks in advance.
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post #9441 of 9522 Old 06-15-2019, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
No.

Are you sure one of the subs was silent when you ran ARC? Try disconnecting one at a time and trying quick measure to see if you hear it.

Make sure the speaker setup menu has the subwoofer enabled. Otherwise, not sure what's wrong.

Maybe this thread will have the info you seek.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...is-thread.html
Thank you - I did a factory reset and started over and was able to set the sub distances along with the rest of the speakers. Ran the ARC Genesis and am very happy - and yes, both subs were simultaneously calibrated. One of my subs needed to be set to "variable" so i could adjust the master volume. I will need to re-do it again to properly adjust phase but I at least figured out the process now.

One other question - if i had a third sub could i connect it to the rca output with the 2 fronts connected with xlr? Or would i have to use an xlr splitter for the 2 front which are connected by xlr and then use the rca (which is prewired through my wall to the rear location for convenience)?
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post #9442 of 9522 Old 06-15-2019, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post
I've been researching processors for what seems like months now. I'm constantly drawn back to the AVM 60 as the one to beat. One of my main lingering doubts is ARC vs. Dirac. It's slim pickings for Dirac 7.1.4 processors right now, but it's possible that the new Monoprice unit will be a winner, and there is still a (small) chance that Emotiva will get their train wreck back on the rails.

I've just about eliminated Marantz (reliability concerns, too much unnecessary crapola on board, and Audyssey seems to be second rate).
Onkyo/Integra does not have good room correction, and does not have parametric EQ. Also reliability concerns.
I've considered a Yamaha AX-5200 with outboard miniDSP Dirac units, but that pushes the cost up into Arcam territory. And no factory rack mount kit for the Yamaha. And it's a complicated "three box" solution.

So back to the AVM 60:
Is ARC good enough? I have a good sounding room and can do treatments, so not a lot of correction needed anyway.
Is HDMI switching reliable and reasonably quick?
Does audio cut out when switching format (DD5.1 to DD2.0, for example) and does it chop of the very beginning of songs like so many processors do?
Is the IP control protocol comprehensive and bug free?

I won't be ready to buy for a while yet since the theater is still a work in progress. I'm probably looking at fourth quarter before I need to make a decision.

thanks in advance.
ARC is not the old ARC anymore. It's been significantly improved with the new Genesis version that was released a few weeks ago.

I've heard others say that this improvement had Dirac in mind. Not sure about that, but I know that I liked ARC before much better than Audessey, and now I REALLY like it. Superb dynamics.

Otherwise, you'd be getting an AVM60 that has had all the bugs worked out and just does a terrific job of playing audio the way it's meant to be played. I absolutely love mine, and I've had Martantz, Denon, Integra, B&K, and Sony receivers in the past.

You get the audio capability of a much more expensive receiver at a much reduced price because they removed all the unnecessary and costly extras for video and power.

Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
Audio: Anthem AVM60 preamp, Anthem MCA525 amp, B&K Reference 125.7 amp
Subs: dual SVS PC-12 cylinders
Speakers: Jamo 626k4 in-wall mains, Jamo 631k4 bi/dipole surrounds, DefTech DI6.5R heights
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post #9443 of 9522 Old 06-15-2019, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by nbynw View Post
One other question - if i had a third sub could i connect it to the rca output with the 2 fronts connected with xlr?
Yes.

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post #9444 of 9522 Old 06-15-2019, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
ARC is not the old ARC anymore. It's been significantly improved with the new Genesis version that was released a few weeks ago.

I've heard others say that this improvement had Dirac in mind. Not sure about that, but I know that I liked ARC before much better than Audessey, and now I REALLY like it. Superb dynamics.

Otherwise, you'd be getting an AVM60 that has had all the bugs worked out and just does a terrific job of playing audio the way it's meant to be played. I absolutely love mine, and I've had Martantz, Denon, Integra, B&K, and Sony receivers in the past.

You get the audio capability of a much more expensive receiver at a much reduced price because they removed all the unnecessary and costly extras for video and power.
I finally pulled the trigger yesterday...last day for the 20% off deal. Should have it a week or so...
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post #9445 of 9522 Old 06-17-2019, 07:18 AM
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I finally pulled the trigger yesterday...last day for the 20% off deal. Should have it a week or so...
Enjoy it. It's simple and solid as can be, especially with the new Genesis room correction. I always had to add about 3 dB for room gain before, but not with Genesis. The center channel clarity is better, and the overall bass response is much improved over ARC-2.

Piece of advice. You have to set your own speaker distances with ARC, which is simple enough. Add a couple of feet to your measurement for your subwoofers.

Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
Audio: Anthem AVM60 preamp, Anthem MCA525 amp, B&K Reference 125.7 amp
Subs: dual SVS PC-12 cylinders
Speakers: Jamo 626k4 in-wall mains, Jamo 631k4 bi/dipole surrounds, DefTech DI6.5R heights
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post #9446 of 9522 Old 06-17-2019, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
Enjoy it. It's simple and solid as can be, especially with the new Genesis room correction. I always had to add about 3 dB for room gain before, but not with Genesis. The center channel clarity is better, and the overall bass response is much improved over ARC-2.

Piece of advice. You have to set your own speaker distances with ARC, which is simple enough. Add a couple of feet to your measurement for your subwoofers.

Eh, everyone should really do measurements at every subwoofer distance in the AVM60 between about 5 and 23 feet to see which one has the flattest response. It's never really obvious which distance will be the best.

7.2.4 Setup | Display: LG 77" C8 OLED | Blu-ray: Oppo UDP-203 | Processor: Anthem AVM60 | Amps: Outlaw 7700, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2 | Speakers: Paradigm Prestige (2) 95F's, 55C, (4) 15B's, (4) CI-Elite E65-R (Atmos) | Subs: (2) Rythmik F25's
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post #9447 of 9522 Old 06-17-2019, 04:11 PM
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Eh, everyone should really do measurements at every subwoofer distance in the AVM60 between about 5 and 23 feet to see which one has the flattest response. It's never really obvious which distance will be the best.
I assume you can do this using Quick Measure?
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post #9448 of 9522 Old 06-17-2019, 04:29 PM
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I assume you can do this using Quick Measure?
You can use quick measure when integrating multiple subs with each other. But if you trying to adjust sub distance to blend subs with the main channels, you can't easily optimize subwoofer distance using quick measure because it only sends a test tone to one channel at a time. Adjusting sub distance to integrate the mains and sub(s) at the crossover point requires a tone being played on main channel(s) and sub(s) at the same time. This is why a lot of guys end up using REW to send the L/R+Sub (or center + sub) signals through the processor and adjusting the sub distance via frequency response and/or impulse response.

Here's a good read on the subject.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...ow-thread.html

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post #9449 of 9522 Old 06-18-2019, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Bittermidget View Post
You can use quick measure when integrating multiple subs with each other. But if you trying to adjust sub distance to blend subs with the main channels, you can't easily optimize subwoofer distance using quick measure because it only sends a test tone to one channel at a time. Adjusting sub distance to integrate the mains and sub(s) at the crossover point requires a tone being played on main channel(s) and sub(s) at the same time. This is why a lot of guys end up using REW to send the L/R+Sub (or center + sub) signals through the processor and adjusting the sub distance via frequency response and/or impulse response.

Here's a good read on the subject.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...ow-thread.html
thanks for the reply and link.
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post #9450 of 9522 Old 06-18-2019, 06:39 AM
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I’m new to the AVM 60 so I have a basic question... If I set an input preference to Dolby Surround for multichannel input, will it automatically switch to atmos or DTS:X if detected?
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