The Official Anthem AVM 60 thread - Page 319 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9541 of 9745 Old 07-24-2019, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
ChadB did my video, and yes, he's excpetional.

I notice you have a lot of +12 levels in your report, which is problematic.
Shoot, forgot to mention that Chad reduced all settings by about -10 dB post ARC. Evidently it’s a known issue/bug that Genesis measures hot. I’ll try to take pics of my speaker levels in the Setup screen. And I also asked him to have one profile with more gain, hence the 4.5db room gain.

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post #9542 of 9745 Old 07-24-2019, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Delija View Post
50 Hz seems a little low for crossover - according to measurements.

4.5 dB for room gain is also a little questionable. In my system, even 3 dB is not good for midbass.
Shoot, forgot to mention that Chad reduced all settings by about -10 dB post ARC. Evidently it’s a known issue/bug that Genesis measures hot. I’ll try to take pics of my speaker levels in the Setup screen. And I also asked him to have one profile with more gain, hence the 4.5db room gain.

I have Klipsch RF-7III and RC-64III as my L/C/R. They have some big drivers and can handle quite a bit of bass, hence the lower crossovers.
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post #9543 of 9745 Old 07-24-2019, 06:19 AM
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12+ Post calibration

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Originally Posted by mamsterla View Post
I joined the multi-sub miniDSP bandwagon finally. I really got my subs smooth with miniDSP prior to running ARC Genesis. I had no problems and it really helped flesh out the bass on both movies and music to have the dual subs integrated with the miniDSP and speaking to the AVM60 through a single subwoofer output.

One question I have is that even after leveling everything, ARC Genesis sets all my speaker adjustments from +5 to +12 based on a system reference of 75db. I don't really understand why ARC Genesis is going so high. My subs are +12 as are my front L+R my surrounds are +7 and rears are +5. It just seems to be at the top of the headroom and I don't want clipping.

The graphs are great for the most part. miniDSP time and phase alignment got rid of some annoying dips and easily managed the peaks.
With ARC, I followed the rule of ignoring sub too hot warning and got negative calibration number. With Genesis, of course, that is no longer possible. Except for my sub, all my levels are at 12+. The sub is 6, but with 3.5 gain, it is 10 in AVM60. My surrounds actually need 15+, so I raised level trim by 3. AVM volume is between -20 and -8 depending on material. Most often at -15. No clipping whatsoever. Hope this is reassuring.
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post #9544 of 9745 Old 07-24-2019, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by erizock View Post
Shoot, forgot to mention that Chad reduced all settings by about -10 dB post ARC. Evidently it’s a known issue/bug that Genesis measures hot. I’ll try to take pics of my speaker levels in the Setup screen. And I also asked him to have one profile with more gain, hence the 4.5db room gain.
It measures hot by about 3 dB.

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post #9545 of 9745 Old 07-24-2019, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WLC View Post
With ARC, I followed the rule of ignoring sub too hot warning and got negative calibration number. With Genesis, of course, that is no longer possible. Except for my sub, all my levels are at 12+. The sub is 6, but with 3.5 gain, it is 10 in AVM60. My surrounds actually need 15+, so I raised level trim by 3. AVM volume is between -20 and -8 depending on material. Most often at -15. No clipping whatsoever. Hope this is reassuring.
Did you measure the av outputs for clipping with a scope? There's no way to tell if there is clipping otherwise as it will likely be a soft clip at least initially and won't be very audible, but you can't make that statement without really scoping the outputs.

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post #9546 of 9745 Old 07-24-2019, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by anilpani View Post
Hello all,

I have an issue with Dolby Atmos processing that I think is related to the AVM60. I am currently watching The Martian 4K BluRay via an Oppo-203 which is feeding my AVM60 that is running a 5.1 system (height and back channels are OFF in the AVM60 speaker configuration).

When playing the Dolby Atmos audio track the main dialog audio is routed to the left surround channel rather than the center channel. This occurs when the HDMI audio output from the Oppo is set to Auto. When I switch the Oppo HDMI audio output to LPCM, the audio is routed correctly.

Anyone have any ideas what is going wrong? Is there a setting I am missing? I attempted to switch surround modes on the AVM60 when the Oppo was sending the undecoded Atmos signal to the AVM60, but it was locked to "Dolby Atmos" in the Anthem OSD. Normally I have it set to "Dolby Surround."

I have noticed similar weird channel routing when running audio tests from the AIX Records Audio Calibration Disc.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
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I'm surprised your AVM60 is reporting it is playing a Dolby Atmos Bitstream since you have the Height speakers disabled -- i.e., you don't have an Atmos speaker configuration enabled. I would expect it to instead report it is playing a Dolby TrueHD 7.1 Bitstream (into your 5.1 speaker configuration). Atmos is a TrueHD 7.1 track with extra data which should be ignored when you don't have an Atmos speaker configuration enabled.

I'd recommend getting in touch with Anthem Tech Support. They'll likely ask you to check which firmware version you have installed in your AVM60.
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post #9547 of 9745 Old 07-24-2019, 07:26 PM
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No Scope

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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Did you measure the av outputs for clipping with a scope? There's no way to tell if there is clipping otherwise as it will likely be a soft clip at least initially and won't be very audible, but you can't make that statement without really scoping the outputs.
I'm afraid I've only got my ears.
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post #9548 of 9745 Old 07-25-2019, 06:46 AM
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And the reason I reduced all my channels - 10db post ARC is becausethis will get me to correct spl level at 0db on master volume level (will be real 75db ref)

Anthem for some weird reason uses -10db on master volume control as 75db ref (unlike almost every other company that uses 0db as ref.. Lol) ... Hence why it sets all channels ARC high...

I asked this same question way back even with arc2... They said - 10db is their reference.
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post #9549 of 9745 Old 07-25-2019, 06:53 AM
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Hello friends!

I haven’t been in the thread for some time. I suppose that’s natural with getting everything tweaked and doing the “set and forget” and just enjoying music and movies after while

Anyway, fast forward a few years and I’ve just recently installed a boat load of acoustic paneling. I see Genesis is out and skimming the last few pages it seems just running the calibration isn’t likely to deliver the best results (seeing mention of trimming 10db each channel etc)

My question, is there a solid write up or workflow or FAQ to guide through using genesis the first time? Or is it so new people are sort of just asking questions ad hoc as they work through the setups?

Very curious to hear (hehe) impressions from folks who recalibrated with Genesis as well. Big difference before and after?

Cheers!


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post #9550 of 9745 Old 07-25-2019, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedlineRonin View Post
Hello friends!

My question, is there a solid write up or workflow or FAQ to guide through using genesis the first time?
https://www.anthemarc.com/arc-genesis/users-guide.php is pretty good.

Quote:
Big difference before and after?
Yes. Most noticeably for surrounds and bass.

A few days back, I knocked down a couple of peaks that Genesis wasn't able to completely tame (in excess of 20 dB originally) using PEQ filters from running REW and loaded it into the minidsp unit after ARC. Just one word: Wow!
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post #9551 of 9745 Old 07-25-2019, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by liverpool_for_life View Post
https://www.anthemarc.com/arc-genesis/users-guide.php is pretty good.







Yes. Most noticeably for surrounds and bass.



A few days back, I knocked down a couple of peaks that Genesis wasn't able to completely tame (in excess of 20 dB originally) using PEQ filters from running REW and loaded it into the minidsp unit after ARC. Just one word: Wow!


Okay awesome, that’s helpful thanks.

I see everyone knocking 10db off their channels in this thread? Why’s that?


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post #9552 of 9745 Old 07-26-2019, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by RedlineRonin View Post
I see everyone knocking 10db off their channels in this thread?
One of two reasons:
1) To calibrate the volume control so that -30 dBFS produces 75 dB SPL, which corresponds with cinema calibration.

2) ARC has set the level trims for some channels to +12 which may suggest the trim did not have sufficient range to achieve calibration.

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post #9553 of 9745 Old 07-26-2019, 03:14 AM
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If ARC has set the values to +12 dB, you get nothing by lowering these values. You don't know whether the original value should have been +12 dB or +15 dB.

Usually, too high subwoofer gain/volume causes this.
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post #9554 of 9745 Old 07-26-2019, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
One of two reasons:

1) To calibrate the volume control so that -30 dBFS produces 75 dB SPL, which corresponds with cinema calibration.



2) ARC has set the level trims for some channels to +12 which may suggest the trim did not have sufficient range to achieve calibration.


Ahhhh, very interesting. This is the exact same issue that I had with Audyssey in the mid 2000s.

To be clear, in your second point, if they were +12, you’d actually want to separately increase the level for that channel and run again? Iirc, when this occurred in Audyssey, if you had either a +12 or -12 the assumption was that the system would have further increased/decreased the channel but it was limited to only the 12 steps, similar to ARC, so if it was +12 you’d increase, -12 you’d decrease, and run again.


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post #9555 of 9745 Old 07-26-2019, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delija View Post
If ARC has set the values to +12 dB, you get nothing by lowering these values. You don't know whether the original value should have been +12 dB or +15 dB.
Yes. I thought someone mentioned that rather than looking at the values in the product menu, one might see the full intended value either in the ARC report or the ARC tool -- but not sure. Failing that, one can check with an SPL meter.

Quote:
Usually, too high subwoofer gain/volume causes this.
Yes. I have thought that adjusting the sub level might help ARC better achieve channel balance, but have not confirmed it myself. It's one of the easiest things to try, though.

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post #9556 of 9745 Old 07-26-2019, 09:32 AM
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I have a simple question, but I can't find the answer. I have a big discrepancy in my sound levels between my inputs. My turntable is much quieter than my other sources. If I listen to it and then forget to change the value of the volume before switch sources, I am greeted with a very loud other channel. Is there a way to offset this source volume so that all my sources are more even? If so, can you tell me where to find it in the menu. Thanks in advance.

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post #9557 of 9745 Old 07-26-2019, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamsterla View Post
I have a simple question, but I can't find the answer. I have a big discrepancy in my sound levels between my inputs. My turntable is much quieter than my other sources. If I listen to it and then forget to change the value of the volume before switch sources, I am greeted with a very loud other channel. Is there a way to offset this source volume so that all my sources are more even? If so, can you tell me where to find it in the menu. Thanks in advance.
Hi,
I do not have such issue.
The signal is analogue and you have to cancel the processing. Hence, no ARC here. Pass through signal.
Hope to help you.
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post #9558 of 9745 Old 07-26-2019, 02:09 PM
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Hi,
I do not have such issue.
The signal is analogue and you have to cancel the processing. Hence, no ARC here. Pass through signal.
Hope to help you.
Thanks, but that is not what I was asking. I know how to bypass ARC if I want. I just want to have more parity between different sources. I believe on my old Integra pre/pros there was a way to assign each source a different offset so that as you switch between sources, the volume does not jump around as much.

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post #9559 of 9745 Old 07-26-2019, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mamsterla View Post
Thanks, but that is not what I was asking. I know how to bypass ARC if I want. I just want to have more parity between different sources. I believe on my old Integra pre/pros there was a way to assign each source a different offset so that as you switch between sources, the volume does not jump around as much.
On the 60 there isn't a way to assign volume per input.

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post #9560 of 9745 Old 07-26-2019, 02:20 PM
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I think the Anthem AVM 60 is the absolute best preamplifier/processor on the market in its price range.

Yes, I'm bias because I have one on order. However, I chose it carefully after extensively researching every other alternative out there.
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post #9561 of 9745 Old 07-26-2019, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamsterla View Post
I have a simple question, but I can't find the answer. I have a big discrepancy in my sound levels between my inputs. My turntable is much quieter than my other sources. If I listen to it and then forget to change the value of the volume before switch sources, I am greeted with a very loud other channel. Is there a way to offset this source volume so that all my sources are more even? If so, can you tell me where to find it in the menu. Thanks in advance.
The problem is the electrical signal from your turntable is much lower than "line level" -- i.e., the expected electrical signal from other stereo Analog audio source devices. This is normal. Some AVRs have a special "Phono" input for use when connecting a turntable, but the AVM 60 does not.

That means you need to use a "Phono pre-amp" between the turntable and the AVM60. These are available at a wide range of price points and quality. The job of the Phono pre-amp is to raise the electrical signal from the turntable to "line level". This is a delicate task to accomplish without adding noise, which is why these are sold as separate boxes -- both for noise isolation and so that you don't have to build the high cost of a superior Phono pre-amp into the price of the AVR itself.

If you are ALREADY using a Phono pre-amp, then odds are you haven't set it to match the type of cartridge you are using in your turntable. For example, Moving Coil and Moving Magnet cartridges produce different voltage levels.

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The AVM 60 does not include individual level adjustments for its stereo Analog audio inputs.
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post #9562 of 9745 Old 07-28-2019, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
The problem is the electrical signal from your turntable is much lower than "line level" -- i.e., the expected electrical signal from other stereo Analog audio source devices. This is normal. Some AVRs have a special "Phono" input for use when connecting a turntable, but the AVM 60 does not.

That means you need to use a "Phono pre-amp" between the turntable and the AVM60. These are available at a wide range of price points and quality. The job of the Phono pre-amp is to raise the electrical signal from the turntable to "line level". This is a delicate task to accomplish without adding noise, which is why these are sold as separate boxes -- both for noise isolation and so that you don't have to build the high cost of a superior Phono pre-amp into the price of the AVR itself.

If you are ALREADY using a Phono pre-amp, then odds are you haven't set it to match the type of cartridge you are using in your turntable. For example, Moving Coil and Moving Magnet cartridges produce different voltage levels.

-------------------

The AVM 60 does not include individual level adjustments for its stereo Analog audio inputs.
--Bob
Of course I have a phono pre-amp. C'mon guys, I have been doing audio for a long time. The output levels are just a lot lower from the phono pre amp than my digital sources and it mean when I switch, I get blasted - if there is no source offset, I will just live with it.

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post #9563 of 9745 Old 07-29-2019, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamsterla View Post
Of course I have a phono pre-amp. C'mon guys, I have been doing audio for a long time. The output levels are just a lot lower from the phono pre amp than my digital sources and it mean when I switch, I get blasted - if there is no source offset, I will just live with it.

Generally, I find I need to turn up the volume a bit more for TT than for digital sources for similar vol level. From your post, though, it sounds like you have a very significant difference.


Anyways, which phono pre-amp & cartridge are you using? It would be helpful for diagnostic suggestions.

You may want to double check that the pre-amp's gain is set for type of cartridge you are using, as Bob suggested. Depending on how the gain switch is set up (assuming your preamp has one), might have accidently switched the setting. If you are using a MM cartridge and your preamp has different gain settings, have you tried a higher gain?


If a tube pre-amp, perhaps tubes are at end of life?


Is Dolby Volume disabled in your TT input set-up?


Not sure if this may be a work around, but maybe try turning Dolby Volume on and increasing the Dolby Vol level?

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post #9564 of 9745 Old 07-29-2019, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamsterla View Post
Of course I have a phono pre-amp. C'mon guys, I have been doing audio for a long time. The output levels are just a lot lower from the phono pre amp than my digital sources and it mean when I switch, I get blasted - if there is no source offset, I will just live with it.

There is no option to adjust the gain by source in the AVM, and I doubt it is common in other pre/pros either. If you have that big a level difference between other sources and that of phono, I would be a bit suspicious if your phono preamp is setup correctly, or matched to the type of cartridge you are using.


Have you checked the manual for your phono preamp? My PS Audio phono preamp as an example, allows me to set cartridge loading and gain separately. Each has a number of settings. Between the two settings, I can dial in virtually any MM or MC cartridge. After determining an appropriate cartridge loading, I had to test with a number of records to get the best average gain level, as the output level does vary somewhat between records. The result is that I do not have to adjust volume substantially when switching to/from records.
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post #9565 of 9745 Old 07-29-2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by madrac View Post
Generally, I find I need to turn up the volume a bit more for TT than for digital sources for similar vol level. From your post, though, it sounds like you have a very significant difference.


Anyways, which phono pre-amp & cartridge are you using? It would be helpful for diagnostic suggestions.

You may want to double check that the pre-amp's gain is set for type of cartridge you are using, as Bob suggested. Depending on how the gain switch is set up (assuming your preamp has one), might have accidently switched the setting. If you are using a MM cartridge and your preamp has different gain settings, have you tried a higher gain?


If a tube pre-amp, perhaps tubes are at end of life?


Is Dolby Volume disabled in your TT input set-up?


Not sure if this may be a work around, but maybe try turning Dolby Volume on and increasing the Dolby Vol level?
The phono is Lounge Audio LCR III Gold. https://www.loungeaudio.com/product-...m-phono-preamp It is an MM only phono stage and I have a Grace F-9E which is pretty good output at 3.5mv. So to give a reference. I usually watch TV at volume level -40db and I listen to music via turntable at about -25db to be at a similar volume. It just means I have to change between them. I suspect that the gain on the LCR III Gold is just on the low-ish side for MM and that is the whole of the issue. I can continue to live with it - it is not a deal breaker.

Anthem AVM60 - ATI 2005 - ATI NC528 - Linkwitz LX521 Mains - Monitor Audio Gold C250 Center - Dynaudio Audience 42 Surround - Dynaudio Audience 52 rears - Velodyne DD-15 - Rythmik Audio F15HP - Oppo BDP-105D - Oppo UDP-203 - Sony PS4 Pro - Xbox One X - Layer3tv - LG OLED65E8PUA - Thorens TD-124 - Lounge Audio Gold phono preamp - PS Audio Premier power
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post #9566 of 9745 Old 07-29-2019, 02:14 PM
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And the reason I reduced all my channels - 10db post ARC is becausethis will get me to correct spl level at 0db on master volume level (will be real 75db ref)

Anthem for some weird reason uses -10db on master volume control as 75db ref (unlike almost every other company that uses 0db as ref.. Lol) ... Hence why it sets all channels ARC high...

I asked this same question way back even with arc2... They said - 10db is their reference.
This link below is the closest explanation I've found regarding the Anthem master volume control. When I have my Anthem set to -20 on the master control volume, I get 85 dB SPL for normal frequencies and approximately 105 dB for the subs (I run them hot and get room gain, normal calibration would only yield 95 dB for the subs when the other speakers are at 85 dB), which corresponds with what the link below is talking about. Anthem's volume control is reporting the input level basically. A -20 dB signal is reference level.

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/201...ference-level/

"Reference level for all channels except low frequency effects is calibrated by adjusting the audio chain such that a pink noise signal recorded at -20dB relative to full scale (0dB) creates 85dB sound pressure level as measured with a C weighted SPL meter at the seating locations."

7.2.4 Setup | Display: LG 77" C8 OLED | Blu-ray: Oppo UDP-203 | Processor: Anthem AVM60 | Amps: Outlaw 7700, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2 | Speakers: Paradigm Prestige (2) 95F's, 55C, (4) 15B's, (4) CI-Elite E65-R (Atmos) | Subs: (2) Rythmik F25's
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post #9567 of 9745 Old 07-29-2019, 02:25 PM
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Just want to sing the praises of professional audio and video calibrator, Chad B. (http://www.hdtvbychadb.com)!
I recently had him come to my home for his "Advanced Audio Calibration" service for my AVM 60-controlled home theater. I tried to do what I could on my own but Chad really opened up my sound and got my dual subs (SVS PB-2000) totally locked in. And he used his measurements to set up custom profiles with and without gain and for 2-channel music listening. Attached is PDF of my final settings and profiles. I know my set up and settings are unique to me and my space, but I highly recommend his services. I enjoy my home theater even more!

Chad is coming to my place to calibrate my LG C8 in a couple weeks. It will be my first calibration, so I'm looking forward to what he can do and it's good to hear about good experiences with him from others. I don't plan on having him calibrate my audio though since I'm pretty happy with it.

7.2.4 Setup | Display: LG 77" C8 OLED | Blu-ray: Oppo UDP-203 | Processor: Anthem AVM60 | Amps: Outlaw 7700, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2 | Speakers: Paradigm Prestige (2) 95F's, 55C, (4) 15B's, (4) CI-Elite E65-R (Atmos) | Subs: (2) Rythmik F25's
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post #9568 of 9745 Old 07-29-2019, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mamsterla View Post
The phono is Lounge Audio LCR III Gold. https://www.loungeaudio.com/product-...m-phono-preamp It is an MM only phono stage and I have a Grace F-9E which is pretty good output at 3.5mv. So to give a reference. I usually watch TV at volume level -40db and I listen to music via turntable at about -25db to be at a similar volume. It just means I have to change between them. I suspect that the gain on the LCR III Gold is just on the low-ish side for MM and that is the whole of the issue. I can continue to live with it - it is not a deal breaker.


Nice cartridge and preamp. As you probably know, preamp has variable gain (0-47 db). That should be pretty good for a MM cartridge. Gain not turned down a bit, by chance?
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post #9569 of 9745 Old 07-29-2019, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mamsterla View Post
Of course I have a phono pre-amp. C'mon guys, I have been doing audio for a long time. The output levels are just a lot lower from the phono pre amp than my digital sources and it mean when I switch, I get blasted - if there is no source offset, I will just live with it.
NEVER had a receiver or pre-amp that had phono signal as strong as other inputs... and that's going back over 4 decades, owning dozens from low end to $$$$ Hi-Fi and everything in between.
So many variables involved- the cartridge- mc vs mm, brand to brand differences, phono preamp strength, sensitivity, impedance match, etc.
You may need an outboard phono preamp that is adjustable. I believe Emotiva builds one.

Anthem AVM-60, Emotiva XPA5 gen2, Monitor Audio Silver, Integra DTR 50.4, Sony UBP-X800, Sony MDR-1A2 cans, Volumio server, Roku 3

Last edited by ZICK; 07-29-2019 at 06:16 PM.
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post #9570 of 9745 Old 07-29-2019, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by madrac View Post
Nice cartridge and preamp. As you probably know, preamp has variable gain (0-47 db). That should be pretty good for a MM cartridge. Gain not turned down a bit, by chance?
I will definitely double check. Would not be unheard of that I bumped or had it set low. That would be funny if it came down to it. Thanks on the compliment. It is a very nice retro setup - Thorens TD-124 turntable, SME 3009 IIi arm and the Grace F-9E and Lounge Audio LCR III. I find it really musical and probably all the analog rig I will ever need.

Anthem AVM60 - ATI 2005 - ATI NC528 - Linkwitz LX521 Mains - Monitor Audio Gold C250 Center - Dynaudio Audience 42 Surround - Dynaudio Audience 52 rears - Velodyne DD-15 - Rythmik Audio F15HP - Oppo BDP-105D - Oppo UDP-203 - Sony PS4 Pro - Xbox One X - Layer3tv - LG OLED65E8PUA - Thorens TD-124 - Lounge Audio Gold phono preamp - PS Audio Premier power
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