The Official Anthem AVM 60 thread - Page 324 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9691 of 9762 Old 09-28-2019, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
Let me know if you need 1.1.0.9006 for Windows. I think I still have the install.
Thank you sir...I have it downloaded and ready to run.
I probably won't have time till next weekend but will let you know how it goes.

Thanks again...much appreciate it.

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post #9692 of 9762 Old 09-30-2019, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
Version 9006 was a really stable version that really didn't have any complaints other than the same thing Genesis has had since day one(speakers levels high). The current version 1.1.1.9105 was a beta and people noticed that the tilt didn't work right anymore. Then suddenly without fixing the tilt issue 1.1.1.9105 was suddenly the release version. I just prefer to use the last version without any known bugs than the next one with bugs.
Legairre,
I would like a copy of 9006, as well. Could you e-mail me? Also, seemingly stupid question, but isn't Anthem aware that the channel levels are hot? I feel the same with ARC. I can barely stand to be in my theater with the level above about -9 or -8, and I know that reference should be higher than that, nominally 0.0 dB in the absence of dialog normalization. I'm not a slave to a number, but I just don't know why reference isn't "reference".

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post #9693 of 9762 Old 09-30-2019, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by WOKNROX View Post
Thank you sir...I have it downloaded and ready to run.
I probably won't have time till next weekend but will let you know how it goes.

Thanks again...much appreciate it.
Hey no problem, you are very welcome.

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post #9694 of 9762 Old 09-30-2019, 05:36 PM
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Legairre,
I would like a copy of 9006, as well. Could you e-mail me? Also, seemingly stupid question, but isn't Anthem aware that the channel levels are hot? I feel the same with ARC. I can barely stand to be in my theater with the level above about -9 or -8, and I know that reference should be higher than that, nominally 0.0 dB in the absence of dialog normalization. I'm not a slave to a number, but I just don't know why reference isn't "reference".
Sure, I'd be happy so send it to you. PM me your email and I'll send it right away. People have been telling Anthem about the levels since the initial release of Genesis, but they are either unable or unwilling to fix it. There's got to be a lot of code in Genesis and changing the levels probably throws off a lot of other variables and parameters so it's probably not as easy a fix as most of us think it would be.

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post #9695 of 9762 Old 09-30-2019, 05:42 PM
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I just received an email from Anthem saying they are working on a fix for the level issue.

Also, I have a question about crossover slopes.

Genesis says the slope for the mains is 12dB Octave, whereas the recommendation for most situations is 24dB.

When I was running ARC 1 & 2, the room correction would combine with the bass management to give the correct slope. Does this still occur with Genesis?

Also, does anyone have the old Genesis firmware for a Mac?

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post #9696 of 9762 Old 09-30-2019, 06:08 PM
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I just received an email from Anthem saying they are working on a fix for the level issue.

Also, I have a question about crossover slopes.

Genesis says the slope for the mains is 12dB Octave, whereas the recommendation for most situations is 24dB.

When I was running ARC 1 & 2, the room correction would combine with the bass management to give the correct slope. Does this still occur with Genesis?

Also, does anyone have the old Genesis firmware for a Mac?
Thanks for contacting Anthem. Let's hope they fix the levels. Where do yo u see the 12dB Octave slope for your speakers. I've never been able to find it. I know it says send bass to sub but I don't see the slope of 12dB Octave.

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post #9697 of 9762 Old 09-30-2019, 06:46 PM
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The crossover slope is mentioned in the Advanced Genesis Targets section:

https://www.anthemarc.com/arc-genesi...st-targets.php

The way ARC 2 gives you a 24dB slope is discussed (at great length) here:

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...g-a-subwoofer/

Basically, even though ARC said they had a 12dB slope, it actually measured at 24dB when combined with bass management.

I hope this is still the case.
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post #9698 of 9762 Old 09-30-2019, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
Version 9006 was a really stable version that really didn't have any complaints other than the same thing Genesis has had since day one(speakers levels high). The current version 1.1.1.9105 was a beta and people noticed that the tilt didn't work right anymore. Then suddenly without fixing the tilt issue 1.1.1.9105 was suddenly the release version. I just prefer to use the last version without any known bugs than the next one with bugs.
Ah, good to know. I haven't really tried the new software. Thanks!

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post #9699 of 9762 Old 10-01-2019, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by HiFiGuy1 View Post
Legairre,
I would like a copy of 9006, as well. Could you e-mail me? Also, seemingly stupid question, but isn't Anthem aware that the channel levels are hot? I feel the same with ARC. I can barely stand to be in my theater with the level above about -9 or -8, and I know that reference should be higher than that, nominally 0.0 dB in the absence of dialog normalization. I'm not a slave to a number, but I just don't know why reference isn't "reference".
The reason for that is reference is what is used to calibrate much larger commercial spaces. Reference is supposed to be loud in general, but once you cram reference down into a small domestic room like pretty much every person on avs has, then true reference becomes even louder with walls much closer to your seating position and less room for the sound to dissipate. This is why only the very well treated and designed rooms can go to reference nicely and 90% of the spaces around here still sound almost unbearable. Once you account for all of the above, to perceive the same loudness or "reference" in a commercial space in a domestic room instead, you'd actually be around -4 to -6 to have both presentations be perceived as the same loudness.
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post #9700 of 9762 Old 10-01-2019, 08:56 AM
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So i am not the only one who is questioning the reference level post Genesis calibration.

After calibration, each channel levels seem higher than usual with my LCR at +2, surrounds at +5, and height channels at +7. I wondered what ARC has set reference to so i put my Disney WOW disc and see where the 85db test tones come in at and each channels levels are at -10db on the main level as reference. So what i am hearing is that ARC should be setting 0db main volume as reference? But depending on source material the extra headroom may be needed. Always thought it is not good to go beyond 0 on the main dial.

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post #9701 of 9762 Old 10-01-2019, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
The reason for that is reference is what is used to calibrate much larger commercial spaces. Reference is supposed to be loud in general, but once you cram reference down into a small domestic room like pretty much every person on avs has, then true reference becomes even louder with walls much closer to your seating position and less room for the sound to dissipate. This is why only the very well treated and designed rooms can go to reference nicely and 90% of the spaces around here still sound almost unbearable. Once you account for all of the above, to perceive the same loudness or "reference" in a commercial space in a domestic room instead, you'd actually be around -4 to -6 to have both presentations be perceived as the same loudness.
Beast,
That has not been my experience over my career. I completely understand that achieving 75 dB @ 3m from a channel in a home theater requires different things from 75 dB @ 12m or even 15m in the good seats in a commercial theater, but at the listening position, 75 dB is 75 dB. The gain and dynamics should also largely scale, as long as both systems are capable and have adequate headroom. My understanding and experience are that though you need less power and/or sensitivity to achieve "reference" levels in these different environments, though I understand your point about it "adding up" more quickly in an untreated small environment. For the sake of discussion, my demo room is not fully treated on all surfaces, but has a significant start on a full treatment package, so it's not particulary "bouncy" or live. I can't quantify, because I don't think I have RT60 measuring ability, but it's a gut from doing this for 25+ years.

And just for another point of information, my normal comfortable listening level is around -12 dB in this room, and I like it rowdy, so I am not scared of a volume knob.

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post #9702 of 9762 Old 10-01-2019, 09:15 AM
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but at the listening position, 75 dB is 75 dB.
From the perspective of measurements, yes. However, the perception of that sound pressure level is different in different rooms.
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post #9703 of 9762 Old 10-01-2019, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by scanido View Post
So i am not the only one who is questioning the reference level post Genesis calibration.

After calibration, each channel levels seem higher than usual with my LCR at +2, surrounds at +5, and height channels at +7. I wondered what ARC has set reference to so i put my Disney WOW disc and see where the 85db test tones come in at and each channels levels are at -10db on the main level as reference. So what i am hearing is that ARC should be setting 0db main volume as reference? But depending on source material the extra headroom may be needed. Always thought it is not good to go beyond 0 on the main dial.
The master volume and the trim levels all work in concert with each other when it comes to output voltage. take 10 off the trim levels, you theoretically gain 10dB headroom on the MV...assuming the output voltage was below clipping to start with.

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Beast,
That has not been my experience over my career.....

And just for another point of information, my normal comfortable listening level is around -12 dB in this room, and I like it rowdy, so I am not scared of a volume knob.
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From the perspective of measurements, yes. However, the perception of that sound pressure level is different in different rooms.
LFL got what I was going after. Perception will be different (Similar, but different) between the two scenarios all other things being equal. That has at least been my own experience, but to each his own I also believe where you are coming from as well.

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post #9704 of 9762 Old 10-01-2019, 08:59 PM
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For you music listeners... Do you turn ARC Genesis on or off for music? I heard somewhere music doesn’t do as well with RC on. What’re the reasons for this? TIA.

Speakers: KEF R300 (R,L), KEF R600C (C), JBL 306p mkII (Surrounds), KEF Ci160QR (In-Ceiling) Subs: JTR Captivator S1 x2 Processor/Amps: Anthem AVM60, ATI AT4003, Rotel RB985 mkII Misc: ATV 4k, Sony PS4, Samsung K8500, MiniDSP 2x4HD Video: BenQ HT2050, 100” Screen Room: 2500 cu sq. ft. sealed on suspended floor
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post #9705 of 9762 Old 10-02-2019, 05:49 AM
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For you music listeners... Do you turn ARC Genesis on or off for music? I heard somewhere music doesn’t do as well with RC on. What’re the reasons for this? TIA.
I have ARC on for everything. It doesn't matter whether it is music or movies, accurate sound is accurate sound.

You may find, however, that limiting correction to below the room mode region (usually under 500Hz) is better than having it go higher.

Check your ARC charts to see where the biggest response are.

I do have a different profile for music, with a lower crossover.

There is no rational reason for this, it is just the audiophool in me.
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post #9706 of 9762 Old 10-02-2019, 08:56 AM
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I do have a different profile for music, with a lower crossover.

There is no rational reason for this, it is just the audiophool in me.
There is actually a very rational reason for it, and it is far from "phoolish" if you will. Your ears are much more capable than any single microphone could ever be. Even one that has measured from multiple locations such as Genesis does. Your mind has an inherent ability to "Hear through the room" as Floyd Toole would put it. If you take a well designed speaker with a near flat anechoic response and good sound power and toss it in a room, as you said, it shouldn't need any correction above schroeder. Flat sweep be darned, let your ears do the testing, not a pretty graph.
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post #9707 of 9762 Old 10-02-2019, 01:15 PM
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For you music listeners... Do you turn ARC Genesis on or off for music? I heard somewhere music doesn’t do as well with RC on. What’re the reasons for this? TIA.

I have it on for everything, even vinyl. What I do differently for music is I have separate profiles for different things though. Like the bass boost for my movie profile is higher than the one I use for music. I also use the AnthemLogic-Music preset for 2-channel digital music, but not surround channel music and not for vinyl. However, ARC is still on for everything.
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For those that have seperate profiles assigned for music and movies with different x-over points on the front channels. How does that impact the phase of the sub on the profile that you do not calibrate with?

For example, if I calibrate ARC with a 70hz xover on my LCR channels for movies, and then adjust my subs phase at this frequency; how is the sub integration impacted if i use the Music profile with a LCR x-over at 40hz? Can we assume the phase b/w the speaker and subs would be aligned at both profiles? This would not be an issue if AVM60 and ARC would also factor in phase.....maybe with its successor? For this reason i keep my xover points the same b/w profiles.

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post #9709 of 9762 Old 10-02-2019, 05:27 PM
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The crossover point doesn't affect phase.
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The crossover point doesn't affect phase.
Agreed. It is when trying to align the bass timing between the main and sub. So if I understand correctly once the sub phase is dialed in with the front speakers it is optimal for any xover point used?
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post #9711 of 9762 Old 10-04-2019, 02:58 AM
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I have been having HDMI handshaking issues between my Apple TV4K and Anthem AVM 60. When select a show and press play/pause OR when I switch between shows within an app OR when I switch between apps (say, Netflix and HBO Go), I lose video and get a gray static screen that flashes a couple of times then goes to my TV’s screensaver.
I have the Apple TV 4K connected to my AVM 60 with a high speed, compliant HDMI cable. And I have my LG B7 OLED connected via high speed, compliant HDMI cable to the Audio Return Channel HDMI input on the back of my AVM 60.
Every other source I have connected (DIRECTV, 4K Blu-ray player, TV) seems to work.
And basically, this recurring issue seems to arise when there’s is a start, pause or switch between shows or apps as I see the front display on the AVM 60 momentarily switch between “no signal” and then whatever format of the show or stream (e.g., ”4K” & ”Dolby 3/2”).
As of now, the best remedy is to switch back and forth between the Apple TV 4K and another source and then back to the Apple TV 4K to “wake up” or “refresh” the connection between the the Apple TV 4K and AVM 60.
In terms of settings on the AVM 60, I have Audio Return enabled as well as CEC Control enabled for both ON and OFF.
I seem to think it may have something to do with the AVM 60’ s HDMI 2.0a & HDCP 2.2 compliancy. I’ve also read on the forums that others have experienced HDMI handshaking issues so please advise on a solution as it quite frustrating. Thanks in advance.
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post #9712 of 9762 Old 10-05-2019, 06:30 AM
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I have been having HDMI handshaking issues between my Apple TV4K and Anthem AVM 60. ... Thanks in advance.
I read on the video forums that people love these devices as they solve a lot of HDMI sync issues... I do not own one but would if I were having issues. I just upgraded to the AVM60 from an Onkyo 5508 and had read the Apple devices where problematic to sync correctly. I had this page bookmarked ...just in case.

https://www.hdfury.com/

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-video-processors/

(knocking on wood...) I have not had AppleTV HDMI Handshake / sync issues. I'm running the latest AppleTV unit with all the latest firmware on the AVM60 + AppleTV + Sony. Since this was a rip-replace install of a non-4K capable setup, I replaced every HDMI cable with Monoprice Certified Premium 4K cables and recycled the older ones so they would not get mixed in. I kept the cables as short as feasible and was very careful about bending them. While they don't specify bending radius, just be careful. Working in the computer industry I've seen bending both copper and optical cables too tightly or beyond their bend specs cause data loss issues - especially at higher data rates.

Peace.

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post #9713 of 9762 Old 10-05-2019, 06:44 AM
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The Official Anthem AVM 60 thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by erizock View Post
I have been having HDMI handshaking issues between my Apple TV4K and Anthem AVM 60. When select a show and press play/pause OR when I switch between shows within an app OR when I switch between apps (say, Netflix and HBO Go), I lose video and get a gray static screen that flashes a couple of times then goes to my TV’s screensaver.

I have the Apple TV 4K connected to my AVM 60 with a high speed, compliant HDMI cable. And I have my LG B7 OLED connected via high speed, compliant HDMI cable to the Audio Return Channel HDMI input on the back of my AVM 60.

Every other source I have connected (DIRECTV, 4K Blu-ray player, TV) seems to work.

And basically, this recurring issue seems to arise when there’s is a start, pause or switch between shows or apps as I see the front display on the AVM 60 momentarily switch between “no signal” and then whatever format of the show or stream (e.g., ”4K” & ”Dolby 3/2”).

As of now, the best remedy is to switch back and forth between the Apple TV 4K and another source and then back to the Apple TV 4K to “wake up” or “refresh” the connection between the the Apple TV 4K and AVM 60.

In terms of settings on the AVM 60, I have Audio Return enabled as well as CEC Control enabled for both ON and OFF.

I seem to think it may have something to do with the AVM 60’ s HDMI 2.0a & HDCP 2.2 compliancy. I’ve also read on the forums that others have experienced HDMI handshaking issues so please advise on a solution as it quite frustrating. Thanks in advance.


Whenever I have enabled CEC for only On/Off for convenience on my AVM 60 and Sony TV I always had issues. By turning off the CEC all my issues were resolved. My speaker can block the TV IR sensor depending on angle so I really wanted CEC on/off to work (ended up with and an IR emitter instead). You may want to try this before trying another cable.

On a different system in my family room I have had video issues with my Yamaha Receiver / AppleTV 4K / Samsung Tv using a compliant Blue Jeans cable and the video issues resolved by using a monoprice compliant cable. All my other cables in my basement are Blue Jeans so I think it can just be slight differences in the cable and combinations of hardware because their implementation? TV and audio is so finicky these days and can be very frustrating!


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post #9714 of 9762 Old 10-05-2019, 12:28 PM
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Just reading up about Genesis and wanted to update my AVM60 only to realize it hasn't been connected in a while to wireless.

Now it seems to either never connect to my wireless (just says connecting forever), or when it try again simply says it finds no wireless networks available.

There is an EAP225v3 Linksys access point literally right next to the AVM.

Seem to recall this unit always being finicky with wireless... Are others still having this same issue?
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post #9715 of 9762 Old 10-05-2019, 02:12 PM
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Just reading up about Genesis and wanted to update my AVM60 only to realize it hasn't been connected in a while to wireless.

Now it seems to either never connect to my wireless (just says connecting forever), or when it try again simply says it finds no wireless networks available.

There is an EAP225v3 Linksys access point literally right next to the AVM.

Seem to recall this unit always being finicky with wireless... Are others still having this same issue?
Have you tried using a physical connection instead of wifi to see if you have any networking capability? Could be your network card has failed. Or it could be something else entirely.


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post #9716 of 9762 Old 10-05-2019, 02:51 PM
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Have you tried using a physical connection instead of wifi to see if you have any networking capability? Could be your network card has failed. Or it could be something else entirely.
Seems the third reboot was the charm.. Connected wirelessly. Though I then realized the only way to update these units is via USB. So did it that way!
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post #9717 of 9762 Old 10-06-2019, 06:47 AM
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So for Genesis, do we run the program and then use the AVMs test tones to set the levels of the speakers to 75db at the LP? Does Genesis have the same level issue with the subwoofers? I usually set each to 72db individually (have duals) before running ARC.

 

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post #9718 of 9762 Old 10-06-2019, 07:21 AM
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Seems the third reboot was the charm.. Connected wirelessly. Though I then realized the only way to update these units is via USB. So did it that way!
To be sure we're on the same page:
- The only way to update firmware is via a USB stick.
- ARC sends updates via the network connection.
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post #9719 of 9762 Old 10-06-2019, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by pbc View Post
So for Genesis, do we run the program and then use the AVMs test tones to set the levels of the speakers to 75db at the LP? Does Genesis have the same level issue with the subwoofers? I usually set each to 72db individually (have duals) before running ARC.
Just wanted to mention that there's a dedicated ARC Genesis thread. You might get ARC answers more quickly there.


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post #9720 of 9762 Old 10-06-2019, 08:21 AM
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Just wanted to mention that there's a dedicated ARC Genesis thread. You might get ARC answers more quickly there.
Thanks Bill, will check the thread. Unfortunately I'm stuck at step 0, which is "locating my ARC Mic"! Haven't used it since I purchased the unit. Trying to remember, did the mic itself come in its own plastic case?

Found the original white box, the stand, seems to have come with a Cat5 cable for some reason, but can't find the mic itself!

 

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