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The Official Anthem AVM 60 thread

1M views 11K replies 722 participants last post by  maestreaux 
#1 · (Edited)
#6 ·
When .1 came home people started saying:

- "I want the subs to play in stereo."

Response: It can be arranged but to hear them in stereo, your system will have to be moved outside and ten feet off the ground. In a room, bass is non-directional even with one sub, and since multiple subs affect frequency response interactively, group eq as final eq is a necessity.

More recently, a couple more reasons surfaced:

- "I would like to set delay separately per sub as a means of taming resonances."

Response: ARC flattens them. This is what equalization is for.

- "My more capable sub plays to 20 Hz and the other two only go to 30 Hz."

Response: Subs are normally designed to block frequencies too low / levels too high for their own good. Warnings that say, "Connect only to a sub-out that doesn't play lower than 30 Hz" are unheard of.

Multiple sub channels so far: A solution in search of a hypothetical problem.
 
#9 ·
^ Start two pages earlier, where MRX gen 1 is mentioned. Key take-away:

www.hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles-and-editorials/technical-articles-and-editorials/audio-video-receiver-build-quality-part-ii-design-of-high-performance-avrs-and-pre-pros/page-2-electronic-volume-controls-that-enhance-performance.html

"The difference between the THD of the best IC-based volume control ICs (Integrated Circuits) and typical AVR LSIs (Large Scale Integrated Circuits) is 2.5 bits using measurements sourced from data sheets with the control set to unity gain."

...and not much to do with AVM 60 since it doesn't use the cited parts.
 
#13 ·
[quoting Dr. David Rich]
"The difference between the THD of the best IC-based volume control ICs (Integrated Circuits) and typical AVR LSIs (Large Scale Integrated Circuits) is 2.5 bits using measurements sourced from data sheets with the control set to unity gain."

...and not much to do with AVM 60 since it doesn't use the cited parts.
2.5 bits is a 15dB difference in signal/noise ratio, right? That's certainly not nothing!

Now, if you want to say that either way we're above the threshold of audibility, I agree that is more likely than not the case. Here, the coverup is far worse than the "crime" (building an pre-pro off of an AVR LSI). But you seem oddly threatened by things that don't 100% toe the company line from someone basically on Team Anthem and it's a little puzzling.
 
#10 ·
@Nick @ Anthem Any info when we can see this unit on the market? I am highly interested in this unit or an updated MRX with DTSX and Atmos. I was so close to buying the MRX710, but no Atmos was the reason why I did not get it. I was actually going to get the 510 and boost the front stage up with another amp. Hope to see something soon.
 
#20 ·
Will a Statement product follow soon after the AVM goes to market and are you looking to go beyond the typical run of the mill receiver limited Atmos/dts:X channel count? In other words will you be implementing a minimum of 16 channels i.e. DataSat RS20i and possibly going out to 24 i.e. Theta Casablanca V when it arrives and possibly more i.e. Trinnov Altitude32?

I just feel that the SSP's should be separating themselves from the receivers by offering more channels than the receivers and at a very minimum dual sub outs. Just my opinion.
 
#23 ·
Will a Statement product follow soon after the AVM goes to market and are you looking to go beyond the typical run of the mill receiver limited Atmos/dts:X channel count? ... and at a very minimum dual sub outs.
A Statement prepro is not in sight and I'm wondering whether another player is needed in 16+ channel, $20K+.

DIYers also mention three subs and custom installations often use four so on one hand, why stop at two preamp channels but on the other, in-room peaks and valleys become flatter on their own as more subs are added. It comes back to which problem needs fixing and under what circumstances.

If anyone has an .arc2 file from a setup with two or more subs and the sub channel result is non-flat after running ARC per directions, please send it to tech support. I've never seen such a file and if there's an ARC-related case where individual delay would be the only solution, I'd probably recommend an external delay unit. It's cheaper in the grand scheme and there's no limit to channel count.
 
#22 ·
^ These days, keeping it is a win-win because using an existing HDMI+VP circuit board means lower cost and time to market while providing OSD and less handshake time when source resolution changes e.g. transitions between channels, inputs, splash screen, menu, main title and bonus material.

As well, all our current models have passthrough option in setup, as will the AVM 60.
 
#24 ·
I don't necessairly see why 16+ channels has to equate to $20K+ SSP's. Part of why Trinnov and Datasat are so expensive is the inclusion of the highly coveted EQ in those platforms. The Theta Casablanca was already very expnesive before Atmos, etc. so nothing really changes there, they were already in a different market than Anthem.

Anthem has their own proprietary much less expensive EQ so I don't see the huge price jump here from what
 
#30 · (Edited)
I can see that. Personally i was really hoping for 9.1.4.

Generally i think we will see 9.1.4 in a year or two.Maybe (9.1.6), not necessary because everyone needs all the channels, but because of the option/flexibility. But i also belive products with support for channels beyond (9.1.6) is going to be very few, and probably "niche" products.
 
#28 ·
So you think to expand out to 16, 24 or 32 channels would take your products out beyond $20k then?


One additional advantage of the higher channel count which many overlook as we tend to fixate on discrete channels is that the channels don't need to be used for physically more speakers but are great for speakers that can be bi-amped or tri-amped so a 7.1.6 array for example becomes 27 channels in a bi-amped system and that of course doesn't even allow for multiple subs, just the one. I admit those looking to go to 16 discrete channels and beyond are few and far between as would those who would want to take advantage of the extra channels to bi/tri amp but having more options to do that and cheaper options then Trinnov, Datasat and Theta would indeed be welcomed by many.


The Datasat LS10 is aimed to bridge the gap I suppose by allowing for 13.1 but does so without the Dirac EQ found in the RS20i. I suspect your AVM60 will be priced similarly, perhaps a bit lower and obviously offer EQ but with 2 fewer channels. So on the positive there are going to be more than one SSP and I'm sure more will follow suite.
 
#29 ·
I would imagine any company has to ask a few questions to build a product like this.


1. Is there going to me any material for more than 11 channels? Although, HDMI 2 can have more audio channels whether they are going to be used in material has yet to be seen.


2. How much of a market is there for more than 11 channels? You can have more channels for bi-amping, multiple surrounds or re-mapping like Trinnov is there going to be a big desire for these products.


3. If there is enough desire can it be developed the unit so it can be prices competitively?


4. Will there be enough sales of these to be profitable?


Whether it is Anthem or any other company they have to factor these basic questions. There is a reason these specialty processors cost so much. If Datasat or other specialty company had hundreds of thousands of units like Onkyo receivers than the cost could be much less. In the lower price range of products the majority of consumers will only do 5.1, fewer do 7.1 and even fewer will do Atmos/ DTS-X. In fact receiver sales are down as more consumers are using sound bars instead of surround sound:eek: As an enthusiast, I want it all! But, I understand a company waiting to see what products are going to be in demand before manufacturing new products that might not sell. I doubt D2s have been flying off the shelf.
 
#34 ·
Few more questions:)

-Will we be able to use IOS(Apple) running ARC on AVM 60 ?
-Can ARC on AVM60 correct up to 20khz ?
 
#36 ·
I thought Atmos on current Blu-Rays was made for 7.1.4 speaker layout and that is why they give recommendations for 7.1.4 speaker placement? I am hoping with HDMI 2 with more possible audio tracks and true object based audio, the processor should know where the speakers are positioned and angled to give the best presentation regardless of placement and number of speakers for Atmos and DTS-X.
 
#37 ·
7.1.4 was probably chosen to make the transition as easy as possible for both the manufacturing/production side and to the public. But it is not mandatory, manufacturers can chose how many speakers they want within the Atmos/DtsX spec.
 
#45 ·
Maybe not important if ARC on AVM60 can correct up to 20khz, but i would really like ARC to support IOS(Apple)
 
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#54 ·
Not really, there is a placement referred to as Top Middle that has a pair above the main listener with the speakers the same width apart on the ceiling as your main L/R speakers are. My only concern there is we are not as sensitive to sounds coming from directly above us. Atmos compensates for this by spreading the speakers out as opposed to a single speaker directly above you. I haven't heard an Atmos setup with only the Top Middle speakers (every demo and my room use 4 speakers on the ceiling in the Top Front and Top Rear positions) so I don't know how effective that layout would be. Only one way to find out really.
 
#56 ·
I guess this is all good news to know that Anthem is moving in the right direction although a little slow. I'm years and years away from getting a pre\pro so hopefully by the time I am ready I will be in a new house and Anthem will have a new Statement product available. In the mean time I need to get a P5 and P2 (well, not a need. A want!) And other things need to happen to be able to run that P5 like new elec service, new box or sub panel, new power run into the room, etc... And I don't want to spend too much money on this house cause I want to be out in the next 4 1/2 years so going back to my original statement, it will be years and years.
 
#59 ·
And other things need to happen to be able to run that P5 like new elec service, new box or sub panel, new power run into the room, etc.
Not necessarily. Using the same volume, speakers, and bass management as with existing amp (if class AB) there's no huge impact on circuit requirement. Net effect during short-lasting musical peaks: They get by without being clipped where they might have been by a less powerful amp. On the other hand, idle consumption goes up with the increased number of transistors. Changing to lower impedance speakers and playing louder would of course change current draw considerably.

Circuit breakers are like slow-blow fuses, typically letting 10x rated current through for a second. It's not enough heat buildup to damage the wires. Appliance motors wouldn't be able to turn on otherwise.
 

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#58 ·
FWIW I think we'll see two possible groups for 98-99% of what's offered to the market by most all manufactures.


The first group, 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 for 10 channels total. The second group 7.1.4 or 9.1.2 for 12 channels total. Maybe they will throw in 1 extra redundant subwoofer channel to bring the total to 11 or 13 channels respectfully. And I expect 7.1.4 will be the sweet spot for sales and installations.


I expect this will happen or be true largely because Dolby says that these are the recommended configurations for home theater and DTS says that they don't really care because their codec, DTS:X, is flexible and will work with almost any layout.


Sixteen channel and up pre-pros will be more specialized, read expensive, or flag ship models.
 
#61 ·
^ P5 has five power supplies - one per channel. One cord feeds three channels, the other feeds two plus the control circuit (whole amp turns off if this is one disconnected). Connecting the two surrounds to this side can help distribute the overall load if this cord is connected to the same circuit as the Sub2 since two surrounds normally don't work as hard as three fronts, likely not even close with your speaker models.

Two 15A circuits are needed if sustained full-output use from all channels is expected, but you'd have be playing considerably louder than at present. If it's a 20A circuit, it may be enough for the entire P5 plus another major component other than the Sub2.

(as the AVM 60 thread natives may be getting restless, please contact tech support if additional info is needed)
 
#67 ·
$3k?! That would be awesome. I'm not going to hold my breath on that though. Considering the MRX710 goes for $2k and is an eight channel unit, I'd be surprised if this 12 channel unit really gets that low. Wouldn't that be the least expensive pre-pro Anthem has ever done?
 
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