The "OFFICIAL" 2015 Denon "S-series" / "X-series" AVR Owner's thread + FAQ (HDCP 2.2) - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #271 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 06:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sikclown View Post
Awesome! Any word on pre-order time frame for either of them?
AVScience will be taking pre-orders on both models starting tomorrow although still no ETA on the X3200W other than August and the X4200W other than September/October.
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post #272 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 09:20 AM
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AVScience will be taking pre-orders on both models starting tomorrow although still no ETA on the X3200W other than August and the X4200W other than September/October.
Perfect. I guess now the Million Dollar Question I have to ask myself is 3200 or 4200?

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post #273 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by provenflipper View Post
Looks like this is finally the year to upgrade my AVR and TV. I currently have a 7.1 setup in my media room and I'm going to add in-ceiling speakers for Atmos. Due the small size of the room, the couch being on the back wall, and fairly high ceilings, I'm thinking I only "need" two overhead speakers.

My question is, should I just add the two extra speakers to my current setup, giving me a 7.1.2 setup? Or would I most likely get the same benefit from a 5.1.2 setup? The major difference being whether or not I need to upgrade to the x4200, or if the x3200 will suffice. Having to add an additional power amp to the x4200 already had me leaning towards "settling" for the x3200.

Thanks in advance for all of your guidance.
If your couch is on the back wall, where are you rear surrounds? Do you get any real benefit from using them? Or are you using Front Wides? If you decide on only 2 height speakers the X2200W or X3200W would work just fine. However, you may also want to consider adding 2 more (total 4) ceiling speakers above or slightly forward of the FL/FR speakers which would require the X4200W and the 2CH external amp.
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post #274 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by sikclown View Post
Perfect. I guess now the Million Dollar Question I have to ask myself is 3200 or 4200?
Easy answer: 6200. (Hint: you'll get change back from your $1,000,000.)

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post #275 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 09:57 AM
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Easy answer: 6200. (Hint: you'll get change back from your $1,000,000.)
Hahaha true. I had the 5200 in my living room but sold it and bought a 7200wa. This one would be for my secondary setup so a 6200 will likely be overkill and actually the 4200 is probably as well.

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post #276 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by sikclown View Post
Hahaha true. I had the 5200 in my living room but sold it and bought a 7200wa. This one would be for my secondary setup so a 6200 will likely be overkill and actually the 4200 is probably as well.
In that case, you might want to consider a refurbished X4100 from A4L at ca. $800.

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post #277 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 12:54 PM
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I have to say, I'm not enamored with the display on the X2200w. There's not a heck of a lot of point on being able to rename your inputs if 70% of the display area is devoted showing the sound mode.

I mean, say I'm watching Netflix on my Chromecast.

The display will show "DD+ +DD S Chrom" (where DD is the Dolby symbol). Seems like they really should have went with separate icons on the display to represent the different sound modes. I also miss my input channels and output channels icon on the display. Yeah, you can get them on the OSD, but that involves hitting the info button and covering up what you are watching. I just always like to have a quick glance at the display when I start watching something in case something defaulted to a lower sound mode.

I gives me a chuckle about just how BAD all of these companies are at interfaces. You'd think they would be able to hire a few UI specialists to help them figure these things out in this day and age. I was impressed with the nice setup wizard the thing had and the main setup menu, but any of the OSDs are hilariously dated for 2015. Huge font, blocky graphics, and very limited use of transparency. It gets the job done, but it ain't pretty. The Denon app is pretty bad too and isn't very cohesive.

All minor nits to be sure, the sound quality is great and that's what really matters. It just almost makes it feel like an anachronism, throwbacks to the days where only hardcore enthusiasts had home theater systems. There's the reason why the phrase "This reads like stereo instructions!" exists.

One minor thing that I wish this receiver could do but I can't seem to find a way, pass audio via HDMI to the TV while using a different audio source for the speakers. I like to watch rifftrax and it's nice to be able to have two audio sources without having to rig up something else. In this example, if I could passthrough video/audio of the movie I'm watching to the TV and then select a different audio source to send out the AVR speakers. Couldn't do it with any of my previous AVRs either. It is a pretty niche use case.

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post #278 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
In that case, you might want to consider a refurbished X4100 from A4L at ca. $800.
Nah, I only buy new and the latest and greatest. I am a tech whore/snob in that regard Besides I need HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0 for my setup.

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post #279 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 02:30 PM
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Any early reactions to the 910? I see that it is in stock and shipping at a bunch of stores. I need to replace my defective Onkyo tx-nr636 (which I annoyingly bought refurbished 4 years ago and is now useless for anything involving HDMI)

(wow, after posting this, I realize I've been a lurker for a long time....)
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post #280 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Skisax22 View Post
Any early reactions to the 910? I see that it is in stock and shipping at a bunch of stores. I need to replace my defective Onkyo tx-nr636 (which I annoyingly bought refurbished 4 years ago and is now useless for anything involving HDMI)

(wow, after posting this, I realize I've been a lurker for a long time....)
Wow! 11 years for your first post. Yup. You win the award of longest lurker.
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post #281 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 02:40 PM
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Pass Thru - Source Memory

I have a quick question about the Pass thru on the X2200W. If watching a Blu-ray and turn the receiver off I assume the defined pass thru source kicks in. Meaning if the DirectTV box is on the TV will begin displaying and outputting audio. If I then turn the receiver on again does it remember that it was functioning as a pass-thru or does it go back to the Blue-ray source?

I would like for it to always default back to TV if there is an option for such things. I have to admit I have not looked at the manual.

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post #282 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Skisax22 View Post
Any early reactions to the 910?
For the most part, I think you can substitute in AVR-X2200W reviews for the AVR-S910W. Most of the differences (such as warranty) have no impact on the operation of the unit. The only real differences relate to the MultEQ XT and Zone 2 stuff.

So, for regular sound quality, the only real difference would be whatever difference MultEQ XT makes over MultEQ.

Had I not managed to snag my X2200W for a scant $40 over the S910W (short lived deal), I would probably would have just gone with the S910W. I think I would probably have to extensively A/B in the same room between MultEQ and MultEQ XT to really spot the differences.
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post #283 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by daviper1996 View Post
I have a quick question about the Pass thru on the X2200W. If watching a Blu-ray and turn the receiver off I assume the defined pass thru source kicks in. Meaning if the DirectTV box is on the TV will begin displaying and outputting audio. If I then turn the receiver on again does it remember that it was functioning as a pass-thru or does it go back to the Blue-ray source?

I would like for it to always default back to TV if there is an option for such things. I have to admit I have not looked at the manual.
Correct. The factory default pass through source is CBL/SAT which can be changed to another source if you prefer. When powering back on, the AVR will remember the last source used so if the BDP is still ON, the AVR will select it.
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post #284 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post
For the most part, I think you can substitute in AVR-X2200W reviews for the AVR-S910W. Most of the differences (such as warranty) have no impact on the operation of the unit. The only real differences relate to the MultEQ XT and Zone 2 stuff.

So, for regular sound quality, the only real difference would be whatever difference MultEQ XT makes over MultEQ.

Had I not managed to snag my X2200W for a scant $40 over the S910W (short lived deal), I would probably would have just gone with the S910W. I think I would probably have to extensively A/B in the same room between MultEQ and MultEQ XT to really spot the differences.
Yeah, for my purposes the 910 is even overkill. I've got a 2.1 system comprised of two Ascend Acoustics bookshelves and an SVS sub, but anticipate upgrading to a 4k TV this fall, so figured I should get something a bit more future proof to replace the onkyo. Still annoyed by the lemon situation w/r/t the onkyo
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post #285 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by provenflipper View Post
Looks like this is finally the year to upgrade my AVR and TV. I currently have a 7.1 setup in my media room and I'm going to add in-ceiling speakers for Atmos. Due the small size of the room, the couch being on the back wall, and fairly high ceilings, I'm thinking I only "need" two overhead speakers.

My question is, should I just add the two extra speakers to my current setup, giving me a 7.1.2 setup? Or would I most likely get the same benefit from a 5.1.2 setup? The major difference being whether or not I need to upgrade to the x4200, or if the x3200 will suffice. Having to add an additional power amp to the x4200 already had me leaning towards "settling" for the x3200.

Thanks in advance for all of your guidance.
If your couch is on the back wall, where are you rear surrounds? Do you get any real benefit from using them? Or are you using Front Wides? If you decide on only 2 height speakers the X2200W or X3200W would work just fine. However, you may also want to consider adding 2 more (total 4) ceiling speakers above or slightly forward of the FL/FR speakers which would require the X4200W and the 2CH external amp.
My rear surrounds are on stands right between the couch and the wall. I've never really felt like I've gotten a great deal of benefit from them and that's why I'm considering dropping them.

Would adding ceiling speakers above the fronts benefit me any if they're not directly above me due to the couch being against the rear wall?
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post #286 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by sikclown View Post
Hahaha true. I had the 5200 in my living room but sold it and bought a 7200wa. This one would be for my secondary setup so a 6200 will likely be overkill and actually the 4200 is probably as well.
4200 will have XT32 though.... great for EQing two subs!
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post #287 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by provenflipper View Post
My rear surrounds are on stands right between the couch and the wall. I've never really felt like I've gotten a great deal of benefit from them and that's why I'm considering dropping them.

Would adding ceiling speakers above the fronts benefit me any if they're not directly above me due to the couch being against the rear wall?
If you're only adding 2 height speakers they would go directly above you. If you want to add 4 speakers, in addition to the 2 directly above you. there would be 2 more above the FL/FR speakers.
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post #288 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by provenflipper View Post
My rear surrounds are on stands right between the couch and the wall. I've never really felt like I've gotten a great deal of benefit from them and that's why I'm considering dropping them.

Would adding ceiling speakers above the fronts benefit me any if they're not directly above me due to the couch being against the rear wall?
If you're only adding 2 height speakers they would go directly above you. If you want to add 4 speakers, in addition to the 2 directly above you. there would be 2 more above the FL/FR speakers.
I'm definitely going to add a pair directly above my couch. Would the front ceiling pair still add significant benefits being they would be about 6 feet in front of the MLP? My room is only about 10'x10'.
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post #289 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm definitely going to add a pair directly above my couch. Would the front ceiling pair still add significant benefits being they would be about 6 feet in front of the MLP? My room is only about 10'x10'.
Yes, as it would provide additional height information moving from front to back as opposed to just above you at one shot of sound.
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post #290 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 05:08 PM
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The consensus is mo speakers mo better. Get as many speakers as you can reasonably afford and make work within your room constraints. Size is one constraint of course but just because a room is small doesn't mean you won't benefit from the additional spatial resolution and immersion provided by the extra speakers.

If 5.1.2 is all you can manage, by all means enjoy it. But if you manage more speakers it will definitely provide benefit.

Keith for example has a high end 5.1.4 setup in a room about that size.

I'm up to 7.1.2 in my new house with in ceiling speakers as TM basically directly above couch. I definitely hear the "gap" in the front elevated zone where there aren't any speakers. Every extra pair of speakers I've added has increased the overall cohesion and immersion of the aurround bubble.

If I only had two overheads (x.x.4 has always been the plan) I would have placed the two ceiling speakers a bit further forward as opposed to nearly directly overhead to help tie the overhead sound better to the screen and front soundstage.

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post #291 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 06:10 PM
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Just had to drop a quick note for JD at AVScience. I can't stress enough to give the dude a call if you're buying one of these receivers. His knowledge and patience is incredible. I really appreciate that he took the time to talk to me about my specific setup and what I was trying to accomplish in my home even though I can find most of the info online. He had no issue stopping and explaining very simple concepts to a big home theater noob without making me feel dumb. I also guarantee you that you won't find better pricing. After talking things over with him I am very confident in making the right choice in the 3200.... Now to play the waiting game to preorder and wait for it to arrive.
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post #292 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Yes, as it would provide additional height information moving from front to back as opposed to just above you at one shot of sound.
So if I buy the little onkyo upfiring speaker pair would I want those on top of my fronts or rears for 5.1.2 with the 3200?
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post #293 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by doctor15 View Post
Has anyone received an x1200 or x2200 yet who has listened to the Onkyo 646? I have a few days left to return my 646 and am wondering if I might be better off with the Denon. The specs are relatively similar, at least for my uses.

May be too late for your return but in my indecisiveness I purchased both a 646 and pioneer SC-91 and returned them both. I just didn't feel the quality in the 646, hands on and sound, and the SC-91 sounded waaaay better to me. In the end I idiotically made the mistake of not realizing the SC-91 wasn't DTS-X capable so it went back too.

I can't compare the 646 to the 1200 or 2200 for you but for the pricing that JD gives on them I would have to give you my OPINION and go with the 1200 or 2200 and snag some of the Audessy love. Or at least call JD and talk it over with him.
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post #294 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 06:33 PM
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@JD, I just wanted to point out to you that on post #1 you have specs listed as "all models."

In there you say 4k/60. I saw on at least the 2200 its specs show 4k/30. Which is part of the reason as well for me holding out for the 3200... By the time 4k projectors are affordable its probably time for a new receiver anyways but ya never know.
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post #295 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Correct. The factory default pass through source is CBL/SAT which can be changed to another source if you prefer. When powering back on, the AVR will remember the last source used so if the BDP is still ON, the AVR will select it.
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@JD, I just wanted to point out to you that on post #1 you have specs listed as "all models."

In there you say 4k/60. I saw on at least the 2200 its specs show 4k/30. Which is part of the reason as well for me holding out for the 3200... By the time 4k projectors are affordable its probably time for a new receiver anyways but ya never know.
I believe the 2200 can pass 4k/60 on all inputs but can only upscale to 4k/30 from a 1080p source for example. I let all the video pass through and let the TV upscale if needed.

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post #296 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 06:44 PM
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I believe the 2200 can pass 4k/60 on all inputs but can only upscale to 4k/30 from a 1080p source for example. I let all the video pass through and let the TV upscale if needed.

Ah see, there I go again not knowing what I'm talking about. Thanks for the correction.
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post #297 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 07:58 PM
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So, I just had the DSU trip up.

I only have a 5.1 setup. So, with 5.1 content there's really no reason to have the DSU on. But that's what it defaults to.

I was flipping around the channels and noticed that Star Trek:TMP was on Epix. I decided to jump to that and see what it sounded like on the new setup. I noticed that the dialog was bleeding across all 3 front channels which was odd. Checked the input stream and it was descrete 5.1. I threw the receiver into Pure mode and sure enough the dialog was anchored in the center. Switched back to movie mode, Dolby Digital + Dolby Surround, and the dialog bled across all 3 front channels. Switched it then to just Dolby Digital without the DSU and the sound was correct. Later on, I switched the DSU back on and the dialog was correct.

So, It seems that the DSU still does "something" if you have the same number of input channels as speakers and the result may not be correct. Something in the sound mix of this movie tripped it up big time. There is a decent amount of background hiss in the soundtrack at times, so possibly that had something to do with it.

So, I think I'm going to leave the DSU off if my input channels match my output channels to ensure that what I'm hearing is correct.
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post #298 of 17570 Old 07-16-2015, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by daviper1996 View Post
I believe the 2200 can pass 4k/60 on all inputs but can only upscale to 4k/30 from a 1080p source for example. I let all the video pass through and let the TV upscale if needed.
Yep, I let my new Samsung do the video upscaling and leave the 2200 to work its audio magic. 😃
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post #299 of 17570 Old 07-17-2015, 03:12 AM - Thread Starter
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So if I buy the little onkyo upfiring speaker pair would I want those on top of my fronts or rears for 5.1.2 with the 3200?
Most likely on the FL/FR speakers although as others have learned, placing them on top of the speakers as designed may not be the ideal location as some have placed them on stands 2-3' forward of the FL/FR speakers while others have simply placed a wedge in the back to angle them more forward.
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post #300 of 17570 Old 07-17-2015, 03:16 AM - Thread Starter
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@JD, I just wanted to point out to you that on post #1 you have specs listed as "all models."

In there you say 4k/60. I saw on at least the 2200 its specs show 4k/30. Which is part of the reason as well for me holding out for the 3200... By the time 4k projectors are affordable its probably time for a new receiver anyways but ya never know.
Thanks. I've edited the post ##1 to be more clear as "pass through" and also discuss the "upscaling" capability of the various models in post ##7.
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