The "OFFICIAL" 2015 Denon "S-series" / "X-series" AVR Owner's thread + FAQ (HDCP 2.2) - Page 210 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6271 of 17508 Old 03-01-2016, 09:36 AM
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I have the 2200w on order, should have it in a few days. Very excited to check out Dolby Atmos.

Two questions:

1) In the manual it says if you have a 5.1 configuration to have your surround speakers slightly behind the listening position, my understanding is the left and right surrounds should be directly to the left and right of listening position, is this not the case? If not, how far is 'slightly'?

2) For 5.1.2 setups is the the best option to setup top middle speakers directly above the listening position or setup top fronts?

Thanks!
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post #6272 of 17508 Old 03-01-2016, 09:45 AM
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See the atmos website. Ot explains alot about positioning

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post #6273 of 17508 Old 03-01-2016, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
All of mine are Nakamichi purchased off e-bay and they have the same offset set screw arrangement. But, I think the Eastone jacks pointed out by Koishikin are better than the Nakamichi. The plastic "handles" are smaller diameter making them easier to grip among a whole line of them and have the superior connector interface. I've put the Eastone connectors on my Amazon wish list for the next time I buy these--seems like I'm always adding speakers.
Good observation about the plastic shrouds.

The Eastone BFA's also use two set screws on opposites sides of the shaft. Pics attached. BTW, the pics say "Nakamichi" which were sent to me for my first order for the "Eastone" BFA plugs. Eastone sent me "Eastone" labeled plugs in a subsequent order. Regardless of whether they're labeled "Nakamichi" or "Eastone", they are exactly the same plugs.



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Denon AVR-X6200W, Outlaw Audio 7125 Amp, Oppo UDP-203, Oppo BDP-103, Amazon Fire TV Stick, Tivo Roamio Pro, Pioneer Elite Andrew Jones Dolby Atmos Enabled EFS-73 Fronts/EBS-73 Surrounds, Chane A2.4 Center, SVS SB-2000 Sub, Panasonic Plasma TH-58PX600
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post #6274 of 17508 Old 03-01-2016, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ctiq21 View Post
I have the 2200w on order, should have it in a few days. Very excited to check out Dolby Atmos.

Two questions:

1) In the manual it says if you have a 5.1 configuration to have your surround speakers slightly behind the listening position, my understanding is the left and right surrounds should be directly to the left and right of listening position, is this not the case? If not, how far is 'slightly'?

2) For 5.1.2 setups is the the best option to setup top middle speakers directly above the listening position or setup top fronts?

Thanks!
1. The Dolby Digital recommended 5.1 configuration for "side" surrounds is 90 - 110 degrees.



2. Top Middle - directly above and slightly (1') forward of the MLP.
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post #6275 of 17508 Old 03-01-2016, 10:43 AM
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Incorrect Dolby pix; the above doesn't show the 2 overhead speakers


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post #6276 of 17508 Old 03-01-2016, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
1. The Dolby Digital recommended 5.1 configuration for "side" surrounds is 90 - 110 degrees.

2. Top Middle - directly above and slightly (1') forward of the MLP.
Of course if you have room behind your seating, placing the Surround speakers more toward the rear helps to provide sound from behind you, which is desirable when you don't have the additional Rear Surround speakers.
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post #6277 of 17508 Old 03-01-2016, 10:50 AM
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post #6278 of 17508 Old 03-01-2016, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctiq21 View Post
I have the 2200w on order, should have it in a few days. Very excited to check out Dolby Atmos.

Two questions:

1) In the manual it says if you have a 5.1 configuration to have your surround speakers slightly behind the listening position, my understanding is the left and right surrounds should be directly to the left and right of listening position, is this not the case? If not, how far is 'slightly'?

2) For 5.1.2 setups is the the best option to setup top middle speakers directly above the listening position or setup top fronts?

Thanks!
1) In a 5.1 setup you don't have back surrounds, so there is no speaker to image stuff behind you. Therefore, those two surround speakers have to cover both the side and rear zones. This is why the recommendation for a 5.1 setup is to have the surrounds ~20 degrees behind you (i.e. ~110 degrees azimuth from center). If you had a 7.1 setup, then there would be a dedicated pair of speakers to cover the area behind you, and then you can move the side surrounds closer to directly to the sides to create more side vs. rear separation.

2) Yes, for a 5.1.2 setup Top Middle is the correct assignment, however you can still physically place the speakers a few feet forward to help close the gap with the front soundstage. In a typical home setup the ceiling height is only 8-9ft, so having the speakers DIRECTLY above you will make them a bit overbearing and "hot spot" for the closest listener.

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post #6279 of 17508 Old 03-01-2016, 11:52 AM
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Neural:X gain

This is a question just out of curiosity--not complaint. I have a 6200w that I just upgraded with the new, available software. No problems with the download nor the installation. When playing back some newer BluRays, of course the Neural:X software kicks in. No problem with that. What seems to be different now is, the audio level seems to be much higher. I'm guessing anywhere from 5 to 7 db hotter. There is not distortion, just a "hotter" audio level than before I did the software upgrade. Am I imagining this, or have others also noticed this? I did a search on this thread and did not come across anybody else that has asked/noticed this. I'm running a 7.2 system on the 6200w. Once again--this is not a complaint, just curiosity. Thanks for any responses.
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post #6280 of 17508 Old 03-01-2016, 12:21 PM
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Interesting. When I compared DSU vs. Neural:X (using a 5.1 PCM track from an HD DVD) I didn't notice any level differences.

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post #6281 of 17508 Old 03-01-2016, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
Incorrect Dolby pix; the above doesn't show the 2 overhead speakers


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Hardly incorrect when my answer was specifically directed to the "side surrounds" only.
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post #6282 of 17508 Old 03-01-2016, 12:36 PM
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Sure thing JD; but I was responding to your #2 reply which mentioned the Top Middle overheads, that's all


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post #6283 of 17508 Old 03-01-2016, 12:48 PM
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Hello, I recently purchased my Denon x1200w. I hooked up a front Left, front Right, Center channel and my PC to the receiver which is hooked up to my Vizio 55" tv, Model number xvt553sv. The speakers I bought are the Energy 5.1 Take Classics. I have my back left and right speakers mounted but not wired yet. My question here is when I run audio tests on the right, left and center they work perfectly. I did the auto calibration through the set up wizard and i heard sound out of all 3 speakers. But when I play anything. Movies, Games, Tv shows the sound only comes out of the right and left Unless I press the options button on the Denon remote and set it to "All Zone Stereo" mode. If I do that I hear sound out of all 3 speakers. I set my PC to accept sound through center channel and I even went under the CEC settings on my Vizio tv and turn on "CEC Function On" and "System Audio Control" then searched for a device and it found my receiver, then I turned TV sound off under my vizio tv settings so it would accept the speakers for sound. Why wont the sound come through my center channel normally without having to turn on the "All Zone Stereo" fuction with the denon remote?

I'm using the 5.1 setting but only because if I use the stereo setting it doesn't show a center channel. If I use the 5.1 setting I can uncheck the surround speakers and keep the front left and right and center box checked but then the only way I hear sound from the center is setting "All Zone Stereo" on the Receiver. Same goes for using the PS4, if "All Zone Stereo" is set to off I do not hear sound from my center but if it's set to on I do. But it resets to Off every time I turn the receiver off.
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post #6284 of 17508 Old 03-01-2016, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidop View Post
This is a question just out of curiosity--not complaint. I have a 6200w that I just upgraded with the new, available software. No problems with the download nor the installation. When playing back some newer BluRays, of course the Neural:X software kicks in. No problem with that. What seems to be different now is, the audio level seems to be much higher. I'm guessing anywhere from 5 to 7 db hotter. There is not distortion, just a "hotter" audio level than before I did the software upgrade. Am I imagining this, or have others also noticed this? I did a search on this thread and did not come across anybody else that has asked/noticed this. I'm running a 7.2 system on the 6200w. Once again--this is not a complaint, just curiosity. Thanks for any responses.
Is the audio level only hotter/louder when utilizing Neural:X (vs DTS:X, or DSU, or Dolby Atmos)?

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post #6285 of 17508 Old 03-01-2016, 04:39 PM
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That's actually not the purpose at all. The point is that if the subwoofers are elevated in level with a 60-80Hz crossover to the main speakers by way of the speaker crossover points, the LFE channel will also be elevated. While elevating the <80Hz range is often desirable, it can be a little much subjectively at the top end of the recorded LFE channel, especially since the soundtrack was recorded with the expectation of the subs and speakers having a relatively equal balance in SPL.

Again it is a preference and certainly falls into the category of fine tuning, but both Roger and I had seen enthusiasts making the incorrect assumption that setting the LFE crossover anything other than 120Hz was somehow "throwing away" intended content. That is not at all the case, as we have described, and there are many cases where an 80-100Hz setting will make perfect sense and be more pleasing subjectively.
Ah, thanks. It's funny, and I was guilty at a point, people think of xovers as brick walls. I tinkered around with REW and my umik and it kinda helped me understand a little more.

With my internal Denon xover for LFE set at 80hz, they are actually flat to 100 and then roll off.

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post #6286 of 17508 Old 03-01-2016, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dmankey1 View Post
On your first question, I don't have the S710W so I can't speak on it. I do have the Sewell Dual Band InjectIR and love it. Like you said, it can not turn the receiver on which sucks but I keep all my equipment in a closet thats in our hallway off the living room so I just manually power it on. I don't like the idea of leaving it running 24/7.
Oh hey I was right. Enabling HDMI pass-through allows the HDMI remote IR repeater to work even when the receiver is off. Hooray.
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post #6287 of 17508 Old 03-01-2016, 05:06 PM
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Oh hey I was right. Enabling HDMI pass-through allows the HDMI remote IR repeater to work even when the receiver is off. Hooray.
Good to know, thanks. I will try it out

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post #6288 of 17508 Old 03-02-2016, 06:35 AM
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Amplifier to run top speakers

I´ve got a x4200w and I like it very much so far. Currently my setup is 5.1.2 (two front heights).

I want to expand to a 5.1.4 setup (adding two top speakers) and made a good deal on a Nad C 245BEE 4-Channel amplifier

h ttp://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C-245BEE-Four-Channel-Amplifier

Could somebody please advise me if the Nad is up to the job?

Thanks :-)

(Im not allowed to post links yet)
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post #6289 of 17508 Old 03-02-2016, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malsec View Post
I´ve got a x4200w and I like it very much so far. Currently my setup is 5.1.2 (two front heights).

I want to expand to a 5.1.4 setup (adding two top speakers) and made a good deal on a Nad C 245BEE 4-Channel amplifier

h ttp://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C-245BEE-Four-Channel-Amplifier

Could somebody please advise me if the Nad is up to the job?

Thanks :-)

(Im not allowed to post links yet)

Should be yes, but if not, just use it for the 2 "ceiling" (Top Middle) speakers.
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post #6290 of 17508 Old 03-02-2016, 08:01 AM
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Is the audio level only hotter/louder when utilizing Neural:X (vs DTS:X, or DSU, or Dolby Atmos)?
I've only just noticed this. I haven't experimented switching between DSU & Neural:X yet. But, it SEEMS that only Neural:X makes it louder. An example--I was watching a BR of "Batman-The Dark Knight Rises". I thought that I used to listen to this at ~ -12 on my 6200. But, now, with Neural:X, I have the MV at -18. Any higher than that is WAY too loud. Once again-perhaps my memory is faulty concerning what levels I used to use. I will try switching between the formats and see if this is just my imagination. Thanks for your comeback!
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post #6291 of 17508 Old 03-02-2016, 08:22 AM
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I've put the Eastone connectors on my Amazon wish list for the next time I buy these--seems like I'm always adding speakers.
I have used several varieties of banana plugs and jacks over the past 55 years and have never found any that are better than these.

They are available from several vendors for $3.24 in small quantities. They do not suffer from the constant loosening of the conductors over time like some of the glamorous brands. They do not become loose in the banana jacks. There is a strain-relief designed in for the cable that also provides a handy spot to grab when removing them so the cables are not stressed. They are available in several colors--I just use red for right and black for left.
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post #6292 of 17508 Old 03-02-2016, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
That's actually not the purpose at all. The point is that if the subwoofers are elevated in level with a 60-80Hz crossover to the main speakers by way of the speaker crossover points, the LFE channel will also be elevated. While elevating the <80Hz range is often desirable, it can be a little much subjectively at the top end of the recorded LFE channel, especially since the soundtrack was recorded with the expectation of the subs and speakers having a relatively equal balance in SPL.

Again it is a preference and certainly falls into the category of fine tuning, but both Roger and I had seen enthusiasts making the incorrect assumption that setting the LFE crossover anything other than 120Hz was somehow "throwing away" intended content. That is not at all the case, as we have described, and there are many cases where an 80-100Hz setting will make perfect sense and be more pleasing subjectively.
So if the Satellites are crossed over at 80-100, would it make sense to set this LFE setting to match the maximum crossover and reduce the setting to say 100 since my max crossover is 100, i would imagine both of this settings could be in conflict.
Also i read some more articles about subwoofer setup and configuration from Martin Logan including Utube, from that i gained that while for Movie soundtrack LFE is best but for Music, line in and additional connections should be considered to subwoofer as Music does not have LFE specific out, do i miss out on the Bass if i am only using LFE, can the receiver optimize for Music via LFE out to sub ?
Specifically for music what are your recommendations ?
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post #6293 of 17508 Old 03-02-2016, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Slannder View Post
Hello, I recently purchased my Denon x1200w. I hooked up a front Left, front Right, Center channel and my PC to the receiver which is hooked up to my Vizio 55" tv, Model number xvt553sv. The speakers I bought are the Energy 5.1 Take Classics. I have my back left and right speakers mounted but not wired yet. My question here is when I run audio tests on the right, left and center they work perfectly. I did the auto calibration through the set up wizard and i heard sound out of all 3 speakers. But when I play anything. Movies, Games, Tv shows the sound only comes out of the right and left Unless I press the options button on the Denon remote and set it to "All Zone Stereo" mode. If I do that I hear sound out of all 3 speakers. I set my PC to accept sound through center channel and I even went under the CEC settings on my Vizio tv and turn on "CEC Function On" and "System Audio Control" then searched for a device and it found my receiver, then I turned TV sound off under my vizio tv settings so it would accept the speakers for sound. Why wont the sound come through my center channel normally without having to turn on the "All Zone Stereo" fuction with the denon remote?
Most likely this is happening because your sound sources probably are providing a 5.1 signal but are putting sounds only in the front two speaker channels. If the media player software in your computer is using DirectSound, it'll always send as many channels as you've configured in the Sound menu, but when you play a stereo (two channel) soundfile, only the front two main speaker channels will be used. The other three will be silent. If that's what's happening, you need to consider using a media player which supports WASAPI instead.(*) Such media players bypass the Sound menu settings and send exactly the same number of audio channels to the receiver as are in the soundtrack that they're playing. Similarly, many cable TV channels botch their soundtracks in the same way: they embed a stereo signal in a 5.1 surround-sound carrier, providing silent center and surround channels.

One way to verify this is to press the Info button on the receiver's remote. The on-screen display will show you what kind of input audio it's seeing, which incoming channels are active, and which speakers are active. For the examples I mention above, it'll show it's getting a 5.1 channel input signal, not a stereo (2 channel) input signal.

To verify that this is what's happening, configure the HDMI entry in the Sound menu in your computer to output a stereo (2 channel) signal. Then it'll only send two audio channels all of the time. The receiver will see only two channels coming in, and you'll be able to select the receiver's "+Surround" option to upmix those two channels to use all three of your speakers

Quote:
I'm using the 5.1 setting but only because if I use the stereo setting it doesn't show a center channel. If I use the 5.1 setting I can uncheck the surround speakers and keep the front left and right and center box checked but then the only way I hear sound from the center is setting "All Zone Stereo" on the Receiver. Same goes for using the PS4, if "All Zone Stereo" is set to off I do not hear sound from my center but if it's set to on I do. But it resets to Off every time I turn the receiver off.
____
* - For some example of free media players which use WASAPI, see the thread https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-hom...-channels.html

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post #6294 of 17508 Old 03-02-2016, 02:15 PM
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Any word yet on when the next round of updates are going to be appearing, especially for the 2200?
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post #6295 of 17508 Old 03-02-2016, 10:39 PM
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I have an Audyssey setup with avr x6200 question. I am putting the 6200 into play this weekend and am wondering if it's best to disable Dynamic EQ + Dynamic Volume before running the calibrations in Audyssey or, just leave them off all the time?

TIA.

John

Last edited by jcp2; 03-02-2016 at 10:45 PM.
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post #6296 of 17508 Old 03-02-2016, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jcp2 View Post
I have an Audyssey setup with avr x6200 question. I am putting the 6200 into play this weekend and am wondering if it's best to disable Dynamic EQ + Dynamic Volume before running the calibrations in Audyssey or, just leave them off all the time?

TIA.

John
Doesn't matter. As if you run AUDY setup, the previous setup will be erase (assuming this is not the first time doing audyssey).

After the process, the setup will asked whether you will like to turn on/off DEQ and Dyn Vol.
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post #6297 of 17508 Old 03-03-2016, 12:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vollans View Post
Any word yet on when the next round of updates are going to be appearing, especially for the 2200?
I haven't heard anything official yet .... however, might be delayed until the current DTS:X update issues are resolved.
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post #6298 of 17508 Old 03-03-2016, 12:24 AM
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Thanks for that. Shame - there's a big difference between end of 2015 and now looking at Q2 2016

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post #6299 of 17508 Old 03-03-2016, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by eloquentsilencee View Post
Doesn't matter. As if you run AUDY setup, the previous setup will be erase (assuming this is not the first time doing audyssey).

After the process, the setup will asked whether you will like to turn on/off DEQ and Dyn Vol.
^^^^!

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post #6300 of 17508 Old 03-03-2016, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for that. Shame - there's a big difference between end of 2015 and now looking at Q2 2016
The DTS:X implementation has been much more difficult to implement then expected.
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