The "OFFICIAL" 2015 Denon "S-series" / "X-series" AVR Owner's thread + FAQ (HDCP 2.2) - Page 221 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6601 of 17719 Old 03-12-2016, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine Doss View Post
😀 well no but it's more inter connection crap to possibly deal with
There shouldn't be any change to passive HDMI cables if they can honestly meet the current 18 Gbps bandwidth spec.
Active cables ("Redmere" seems to be a common example) would or will need to be updated.

As for HDCP issues, well, that's the movie/content industry inflicting limitations upon their legitimate customers.

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post #6602 of 17719 Old 03-12-2016, 01:17 PM
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Settings help

Hi. I have an x4200w running as 5.1. I'm using a goldenear SuperCinema 3D array XL as r/c/l, velodyne 1200r series sub and 2 rear in wall surrounds. Not sure if brand of surrounds.

I ran audessey against the suggestion of goldenear but have bypassed front l/r. Sounding a bit hollow, echoey with vocals or tv dialogue. Also a tad bright at times. Reviews have been mesmerizing and I'm not mesmorized so I'm wondering I I need any further tuning? I did alter crossovers to 120hz on all fronts and surrounds. Sound ok/good but not great.

I can bypass audessey all together and have but its not dynamic enough.

Any suggestions from the experts?
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post #6603 of 17719 Old 03-12-2016, 01:20 PM
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For anyone interested in the HDCP issues I've expressed concerns with when running the Samsung K8500 UHD Blu-Ray Player through my Denon x2200w AVR and out to an HDR TV I have some new information. It would appear that the only movies that give any sort of HDCP handshake issues are Warner Brothers titles. I currently own The Martian, The Peanuts Movie, Hitman Agent 47, Kingsman from fox. Chappie and The Amazing Spiderman 2 from Sony, Enders Game and Sicario from Lionsgate, and Mad Max, San Andreas, and The Lego Movie from Warner. Only the warner titles display any HDCP error at the menu (and even then not each time) and/or display a black screen randomly during the movie or have some skipping. The black screen and skipping happens completely randomly and after a couple of times it will not do it again. In Mad Max it gave me a couple skips and 2 black screens in the first 45minutes. Then for the rest of the movie it never displayed any issue whatsoever. The same happens in San Andreas and The Lego Movie. None of the other titles I own from other studios have any errors or problems whatsoever.

So it would seem to be a problem with the way Warner is manufacturing the discs or encoding the video than anything wrong with the hardware or firmware in either the player or AVR. When I run the video directly to the TV I get no errors whatsoever, but since only Warner titles exhibit any issues I am not going to blame the AVR for the problems.

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post #6604 of 17719 Old 03-12-2016, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wassy View Post
Hi. I have an x4200w running as 5.1. I'm using a goldenear SuperCinema 3D array XL as r/c/l, velodyne 1200r series sub and 2 rear in wall surrounds. Not sure if brand of surrounds.

I ran audessey against the suggestion of goldenear but have bypassed front l/r. Sounding a bit hollow, echoey with vocals or tv dialogue. Also a tad bright at times. Reviews have been mesmerizing and I'm not mesmorized so I'm wondering I I need any further tuning? I did alter crossovers to 120hz on all fronts and surrounds. Sound ok/good but not great.

I can bypass audessey all together and have but its not dynamic enough.

Any suggestions from the experts?
Just for a baseline I'd set audyssey to reference and see how that sounds to you. I am personally not a fan of soundbars, even very high end soundbars. However it should not sound like an echo(to use your term). So I'd attempt setting audyssey to reference and might consider running the calibration over again. Are you using Dynamic EQ or Dynamic Volume as well? These also tend to change the sound and not always in a desirable way depending on expectations and equipment.

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post #6605 of 17719 Old 03-12-2016, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
I've used Airplay across multiple Denon receivers (2113CI, X4000, X5200, X6200, as well as a 4311 and a 1912 I set up for friends) and never had any issues. It works fine for most people.

Thanks. i was so depressed as I finally decided on a refurb x6200


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post #6606 of 17719 Old 03-12-2016, 02:48 PM
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AirPlay on my x2200w works but if I start fast forwarding a lot and skipping songs constantly it may have a connection issue and I need to reconnect. Other than that it's fine.

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post #6607 of 17719 Old 03-12-2016, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
Just for a baseline I'd set audyssey to reference and see how that sounds to you. I am personally not a fan of soundbars, even very high end soundbars. However it should not sound like an echo(to use your term). So I'd attempt setting audyssey to reference and might consider running the calibration over again. Are you using Dynamic EQ or Dynamic Volume as well? These also tend to change the sound and not always in a desirable way depending on expectations and equipment.

Thanks. It is set to reference. Dynamic eq is on. Ive tried both ways. And dynamic volume is off always. I have the front l/r bypassed at this point. Running audessey doesn't allow me to set reference or flat prior, only after. I've run it 5 times regardless. Also shows a 200hz crossover where they tell me to use 120hz if on shelf or in cabinet.
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post #6608 of 17719 Old 03-12-2016, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wassy View Post
Hi. I have an x4200w running as 5.1. I'm using a goldenear SuperCinema 3D array XL as r/c/l, velodyne 1200r series sub and 2 rear in wall surrounds. Not sure if brand of surrounds.

I ran audessey against the suggestion of goldenear but have bypassed front l/r. Sounding a bit hollow, echoey with vocals or tv dialogue. Also a tad bright at times. Reviews have been mesmerizing and I'm not mesmorized so I'm wondering I I need any further tuning? I did alter crossovers to 120hz on all fronts and surrounds. Sound ok/good but not great.

I can bypass audessey all together and have but its not dynamic enough.

Any suggestions from the experts?
Is Dynamic EQ on in Audessey? That can make the surrounds very active. Try with Dyn EQ off.
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post #6609 of 17719 Old 03-12-2016, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by doctorwizz View Post
Is Dynamic EQ on in Audessey? That can make the surrounds very active. Try with Dyn EQ off.
Tried both ways. Slightly improved with it off but this is on music where its most Pronounced. Tv or movies sound good, but then again, I'm wondering if I can get it sounding better with music it will sound great with tv? Lol. This soundbar should sound better than it does in my opinion.

What I'm missing is a solidness of the sound. It plays loud and efficiently but sounds like something a little different than with bookshelves or towers. Not volume. It's loose, hollow. Not sure I know the correct jargon. Maybe smooth is the word I'm looking for or more mellow but without losing any tunes, instruments etc.

This is a large room about 19'x25 and 13-14' ceiling so big volume. Sitting area since the room extends further out than viewing area, is about 18-19x17-18. I don't use any of the movie or music tone buttons. Also, changing crossovers up or down a bit doesn't seem to really change anything to my war. No extra bass from speakers and no loss of anything either, best I can tell. Even when testing the bass as either lfe or lfe+main didn't change bass or smoothness of bass across the sound bytes.

I'm sure something, somewhere is going to be as easy as a flick of a switch and it'll be a whole new ball game. :-). Lol
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post #6610 of 17719 Old 03-12-2016, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wassy View Post
Thanks. It is set to reference. Dynamic eq is on. Ive tried both ways. And dynamic volume is off always. I have the front l/r bypassed at this point. Running audessey doesn't allow me to set reference or flat prior, only after. I've run it 5 times regardless. Also shows a 200hz crossover where they tell me to use 120hz if on shelf or in cabinet.

Well audyssey measures what it picks up on the microphone and ignores whatever specs the manufacturer states (which are often lies). So beyond what I said I don't have anything else to suggest. When you run audyssey you set the calibration mode after it calculates the room characteristics and delay etc.

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post #6611 of 17719 Old 03-12-2016, 04:17 PM
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Samsung K8500 UHD Blu-Ray Player when playing uhd discs
Can it output Dolby Atmos when it's video output is set for 1080p?
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post #6612 of 17719 Old 03-12-2016, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wassy View Post
Tried both ways. Slightly improved with it off but this is on music where its most Pronounced. Tv or movies sound good, but then again, I'm wondering if I can get it sounding better with music it will sound great with tv? Lol. This soundbar should sound better than it does in my opinion.

What I'm missing is a solidness of the sound. It plays loud and efficiently but sounds like something a little different than with bookshelves or towers. Not volume. It's loose, hollow. Not sure I know the correct jargon. Maybe smooth is the word I'm looking for or more mellow but without losing any tunes, instruments etc.

This is a large room about 19'x25 and 13-14' ceiling so big volume. Sitting area since the room extends further out than viewing area, is about 18-19x17-18. I don't use any of the movie or music tone buttons. Also, changing crossovers up or down a bit doesn't seem to really change anything to my war. No extra bass from speakers and no loss of anything either, best I can tell. Even when testing the bass as either lfe or lfe+main didn't change bass or smoothness of bass across the sound bytes.

I'm sure something, somewhere is going to be as easy as a flick of a switch and it'll be a whole new ball game. :-). Lol
If you haven't already, please take the time to look through the Audyssey 101/FAQ.

Using a boom microphone stand, closely adjacent microphone positions and properly toe-ing in the speakers are some of the major contributors to getting good results. Putting the microphone in the right positions is very important.

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post #6613 of 17719 Old 03-12-2016, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
If you haven't already, please take the time to look through the Audyssey 101/FAQ.

Using a boom microphone stand, closely adjacent microphone positions and properly toe-ing in the speakers are some of the major contributors to getting good results. Putting the microphone in the right positions is very important.
Link is confusing me. . Is it correct?

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post #6614 of 17719 Old 03-13-2016, 03:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Link is confusing me. . Is it correct?

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Should be yes, however, some browsers may react differently and direct to the top of the page instead of post 51778 in the "stickied" Audyssey thread.
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post #6615 of 17719 Old 03-13-2016, 05:13 AM
 
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Should be yes, however, some browsers may react differently and direct to the top of the page instead of post 51778 in the "stickied" Audyssey thread.
That link goes to a very short thread on CRT projectors. Try again.

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post #6616 of 17719 Old 03-13-2016, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wassy View Post
Thanks. It is set to reference. Dynamic eq is on. Ive tried both ways. And dynamic volume is off always. I have the front l/r bypassed at this point. Running audessey doesn't allow me to set reference or flat prior, only after. I've run it 5 times regardless. Also shows a 200hz crossover where they tell me to use 120hz if on shelf or in cabinet.
It's definitely not a good idea to lower the crossover to 120 if Audyssey measures 200. Whether it should or not for those speakers I don't have a comment, but as an experiment try to bring them out from an enclosed cabinet if that is where they are. Also try the tightly spaced mike positions. And is there anything marginal about the listening position, like being against a back wall? You won't have good results unless you can get a lower recommended crossover from the calibration run.

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post #6617 of 17719 Old 03-13-2016, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kherman View Post
Link is confusing me. . Is it correct?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzledbiker View Post
That link goes to a very short thread on CRT projectors. Try again.

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Unfortunately, many internal AVS links only work if you use the Forum's default number of posts per page. If you've changed that setting in your personal profile to increase or decrease the number of AVS Forum posts that your browser shows at a single time, then such links often won't work.

Ideally, the introduction in post no. 51778 is linked to by this url: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post21782993

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post #6618 of 17719 Old 03-13-2016, 07:03 AM
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Which option do i have to disable on the 4200 so the video from my sources is completely untouched by the avr? Thanks.
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post #6619 of 17719 Old 03-13-2016, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Should be yes, however, some browsers may react differently and direct to the top of the page instead of post 51778 in the "stickied" Audyssey thread.
Ahhhh,
Strange. not sure what browser I was using yesterday. But today it is working. Weird.
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post #6620 of 17719 Old 03-13-2016, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Yiorgos759 View Post
Which option do i have to disable on the 4200 so the video from my sources is completely untouched by the avr? Thanks.
You will need to turn "Video Conversion" off:

http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX4200W/N...OKNRMLggknewrb

Note that this disables the i/p scaler and the OSD overlay.

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post #6621 of 17719 Old 03-13-2016, 11:26 AM
 
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Hey guys, I snagged a X4200W today in Fry's Sunday Sale (insane price), so I will be joining your ranks very soon! It should be here on Friday, which gives me a chance to read the thread and catch up.
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post #6622 of 17719 Old 03-13-2016, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Yiorgos759 View Post
Which option do i have to disable on the 4200 so the video from my sources is completely untouched by the avr? Thanks.
Go into setup>video>output settings>ip scaler. Turn that off. You can leave video conversion on. Video conversion will convert any non-HDMI signal (like component video) and output it over the HDMI monitor out and video conversion is what allows your GUI to overlay on the screen.
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I have had my 910 for about a month now and for the most part I love it but I have a few issues that are driving me crazy.

1. The audio sync seems to be off with some Blu Rays. It is worse with 2.0 channel or mono PCM sound tracks. I have noticed it with multi channel DTS HD MA as well but not as much or as noticeable.

2. Not sure if this is related but when an audio track is in 2.0 channel DTS MA the receiver shows that as stereo, when looking at the info on screen it says DTS MA 2.0 but sound shows stereo, it looks as if it's adding the subwoofer. Other surround modes show up correctly. Is there a way to have it stay in DTS or does it even matter?

The audio sync issue is really driving me crazy though really hoping to get that fixed. I have tried it with the auto lip sync on and off not sure that either is any better.

Blu Ray player is a region free Sony BDP S5200 and the TV is a Samnsung JS8500.
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post #6624 of 17719 Old 03-13-2016, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian
Right now, with most products, you have no choice.

With DTS signals you MUST use Neural X (DSU no longer available). Likewise with Dolby signals you can only use DSU (Neural X will not be available).

Only way around this limitation is to output PCM signals from the Blu-ray player. However, if you do this you will have to re-enable bitstream output from the player to decode native Atmos or DTS:X content.

Are there any updates or hints if/when D&M will enable ability of Neural X to work on a dolby digital signal, without switching the source to PCM before sending to the avr?


The reason I ask is that I'd like to be able to use Neural X rather than DSU when watching network shows off my TIVO, the TIVO can output PCM to the avr , but it down converts the Dolby 5.1 which are most network hd programs to a 2 channel PCM, which would then be converted in the avr with Neural X to the 7.1.4. I would think, maybe I'm wrong here, but down converting dolby 5.1 to 2 channel PCM, then back up to multichannel via Neural X would lose something compared to Neural X decoding a dolby 5.1 soundtrack to the multichannel layout of 7.1.4. Any ideas on this?
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post #6625 of 17719 Old 03-13-2016, 01:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by junkie88 View Post
I have had my 910 for about a month now and for the most part I love it but I have a few issues that are driving me crazy.

1. The audio sync seems to be off with some Blu Rays. It is worse with 2.0 channel or mono PCM sound tracks. I have noticed it with multi channel DTS HD MA as well but not as much or as noticeable.

2. Not sure if this is related but when an audio track is in 2.0 channel DTS MA the receiver shows that as stereo, when looking at the info on screen it says DTS MA 2.0 but sound shows stereo, it looks as if it's adding the subwoofer. Other surround modes show up correctly. Is there a way to have it stay in DTS or does it even matter?

The audio sync issue is really driving me crazy though really hoping to get that fixed. I have tried it with the auto lip sync on and off not sure that either is any better.

Blu Ray player is a region free Sony BDP S5200 and the TV is a Samnsung JS8500.
Yeah lovin' my s710w so far as well. 'cept noticed today the audio suddenly cut out from HoC played via the K8500. Restarting the player fixed it. strange.
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post #6626 of 17719 Old 03-13-2016, 02:08 PM
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Sorry for asking this but...

I have read and re-read all the Zone 2 instructions and thought I had it figured out. But I cant get this to work.

My blu ray player is hooked up to my X2200 via HDMI on the "DVD" input. But then I ALSO connected red/white RCAs from my Audio Out on blu ray player to the Red/White for DVD Input on the back of the receiver.

Now, when I select "DVD" and start playing a CD in the blu ray player, shouldnt I be able to hear music playing back through both the main zone and the Zone 2 (I have powered on Zone 2 and turned up the volume). From what I read in an old batpig post I thought this dual-connection setup should work but I cant get any sound out...

(fyi if I chose Option > All Zone Stereo then I do get music in the Zone 2, but not when I try to just select Zone 2 without using All Zone).

Thanks.
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post #6627 of 17719 Old 03-13-2016, 03:14 PM
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Hey guys, I snagged a X4200W today in Fry's Sunday Sale (insane price), so I will be joining your ranks very soon! It should be here on Friday, which gives me a chance to read the thread and catch up.
Ya I seen the deal too on slickdeals I almost jumped in but the networking issues kept me away.

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post #6628 of 17719 Old 03-13-2016, 03:34 PM
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I've configured my 4200 like that and can select "DTS-HD + Neural:X" from the menu after pressing "Movie" on the remote. Input signal is "DTS-HD MSTR".
I do have the latest firmware. Had to do a "Network Reset" (see post 5) because of some strange behavior. Maybe you should do the same? Don't forget to save your configuration first.
Here's the update: I have failed! I reset my receiver numerous times, and every time I am not able to see a choice of DTS-HD MSTR + Neural:X. Like I've said before, every other DTS format with the exception of DTS:X (I have no media to test that) gives me a Neural:X choice. You said your amp assignment was the same as mine. Does that include Front Dolby on a 9.1 system, like mine? I definitely get sound out of my Atmos speakers when upmixing the other DTS formats. It's puzzling to me. If you have any other ideas, they are definitely welcome. Thanks again for hanging with me.

For everyone else out there, when you play a DTS-HD MSTR disc, do you get a choice of DTS-HD MSTR + Neural:X? If so, what is your amp assignment? Inquiring minds want to know!

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me!

EDIT: I forgot to post that I own a x4200w. Thanks!

Catdaddy

Last edited by Catdaddy327; 03-13-2016 at 03:47 PM.
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post #6629 of 17719 Old 03-13-2016, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Catdaddy327 View Post
Here's the update: I have failed! I reset my receiver numerous times, and every time I am not able to see a choice of DTS-HD MSTR + Neural:X. Like I've said before, every other DTS format with the exception of DTS:X (I have no media to test that) gives me a Neural:X choice. You said your amp assignment was the same as mine. Does that include Front Dolby on a 9.1 system, like mine? I definitely get sound out of my Atmos speakers when upmixing the other DTS formats. It's puzzling to me. If you have any other ideas, they are definitely welcome. Thanks again for hanging with me.

For everyone else out there, when you play a DTS-HD MSTR disc, do you get a choice of DTS-HD MSTR + Neural:X? If so, what is your amp assignment? Inquiring minds want to know!

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me!
I reconfigured my 4200 with the amp assign you had listed and could select DTS-HD + Neural:X with a DTS-HD MSTR input signal.
My actual configuration is 5 floor speaker and 4 Dolby speaker. Here DTS-HD + Neural:X is also available.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
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post #6630 of 17719 Old 03-13-2016, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
I reconfigured my 4200 with the amp assign you had listed and could select DTS-HD + Neural:X with a DTS-HD MSTR input signal.
My actual configuration is 5 floor speaker and 4 Dolby speaker. Here DTS-HD + Neural:X is also available.
And that's the kind of stuff that drives me crazy. You're able to do it, and I can't. I've even changed out HDMI cables between my BD player and my amp. I know my BD is spitting out bitstream because the amp always shows the correct format that I've chosen. For some reason, it's not happening for me.

Catdaddy
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