The "OFFICIAL" 2015 Denon "S-series" / "X-series" AVR Owner's thread + FAQ (HDCP 2.2) - Page 246 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7351 of 17458 Old 04-05-2016, 06:33 PM
 
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Curious - what are your all's experience with DTS:X on the X4200 and above receivers so far? I am loving my 5.1.4 setup with Atmos, but found The Last Witch Hunter pretty underwhelming. Additionally, when I did the DTS:X test tones located on that bluray, there was massive bleed between all the height and surround speakers.
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post #7352 of 17458 Old 04-05-2016, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cswiger View Post
The Denon 4200 has 7 power amps and can process 9 channels-- driving the last pair with an external 2-channel amp.

Otherwise, you can connect two pairs of surround speakers in parallel so long as they are 8+ ohm speakers. This isn't a very desirable configuration, because it puts quite a load on the AVR and you will be getting comb filtering distortion, but I suppose that is up to your preference.
I had a 3808ci and I was able to do with my using surround speakers A + B. I can no longer do this? There were not connected in parallel, they all had their own speaker terminal. Surround A + Surround B + Surround Back. The 3808 was also a 7.1 system.
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post #7353 of 17458 Old 04-05-2016, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
You may have to run two HDMI cables from the player. HDMI 1 to the tv and HDMI 2 to the AVR. This will split the video and audio from the k8500. This is the only fix that works for my and my x2200w. I get random errors otherwise.
Random errors as in no picture at all? Kind of a kludgy solution.

Anyone have a K8500 and have it working with their 2015 Denon?
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post #7354 of 17458 Old 04-05-2016, 08:20 PM
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Just got the AVR-x3200W and while I love it, my wife doesn't like that it displays the volume on screen when you change it... my old Pioneer just displayed it on the front of the receiver, not the actual TV... any way to do this?

Never mind, finally found it in Settings, Video, On Screen Display....

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post #7355 of 17458 Old 04-05-2016, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by frodbonzi View Post
Just got the AVR-x3200W and while I love it, my wife doesn't like that it displays the volume on screen when you change it... my old Pioneer just displayed it on the front of the receiver, not the actual TV... any way to do this?
Page 179 of the manual: Settings > Video > On Screen Display > Volume OFF
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post #7356 of 17458 Old 04-05-2016, 08:47 PM
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I have 9 speakers all in the ceiling in a long rectangle shaped room. Left, Center, Right directly above the tv in the ceiling with 3 speakers on each side of the room running from the front to the back. The 1st two ceiling speakers are in between the tv and the main listening area, the next two are lined up to the main listing area (couch), the last two are behind the main listening area. Which setup should I use for the x-6200W, I also have another two speakers outside for which I am using an external amp, I am wondering if I can stop using this.

Thank You
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post #7357 of 17458 Old 04-05-2016, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy Anonymous View Post
Random errors as in no picture at all? Kind of a kludgy solution.

Anyone have a K8500 and have it working with their 2015 Denon?
I've been able to use the 1 HDMI setup option out of the K8500 into my X4200W from day 1, without any issues whatsoeve. I turned off all video processing.

Edit: also of note, I used the same 5+year-old HDMI cables that were already in place from all older equipment (albeit rather thick 10' runs)

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post #7358 of 17458 Old 04-05-2016, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
I've been able to use the 1 HDMI setup option out of the K8500 into my X4200W from day 1, without any issues whatsoeve. I turned off all video processing.

Edit: also of note, I used the same 5+year-old HDMI cables that were already in place from all older equipment (albeit rather thick 10' runs)
Huh. So if there's no universal compatibility issue, it has to be either a setting, or my cables (doubtful; they work to transmit the signal from the K8500 directly to the TV and I just bought them in December), or a firmware issue (they are both up to date as far as I know), or... I don't know. I'm back to square one.
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post #7359 of 17458 Old 04-05-2016, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy Anonymous View Post
Huh. So if there's no universal compatibility issue, it has to be either a setting, or my cables (doubtful; they work to transmit the signal from the K8500 directly to the TV and I just bought them in December), or a firmware issue (they are both up to date as far as I know), or... I don't know. I'm back to square one.
Did you also test the HDMI cable from your AVR to your TV? When you say your cable works from the player to the TV, I would imagine you're using the same one to the AVR?

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post #7360 of 17458 Old 04-05-2016, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
Did you also test the HDMI cable from your AVR to your TV? When you say your cable works from the player to the TV, I would imagine you're using the same one to the AVR?
That's correct. I'm using the same model of Monoprice cable, bought together back in December, both from the player to the AVR and from the AVR to the TV. When I tested the player direct to the TV, I unplugged the cable I had been trying to run to the AVR and plugged it into the TV, and got a picture. The one going from AVR to TV shouldn't be a problem because I've been viewing other sources hooked up to the AVR through it. Also, I've tried swapping the two, and had the same results: no video from the K8500 (but fine on audio); video and audio from all other sources.
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post #7361 of 17458 Old 04-05-2016, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Anonymous View Post
Huh. So if there's no universal compatibility issue, it has to be either a setting, or my cables (doubtful; they work to transmit the signal from the K8500 directly to the TV and I just bought them in December), or a firmware issue (they are both up to date as far as I know), or... I don't know. I'm back to square one.
The cable you linked a few posts back is to an active Redmere cable, they're known to not play nicely with various newer receivers, JVC 4k capable projectors, and a few other devices. Redmere is planning on releasing a newer chipset that fully supports 18Gbps for UHD at 4:4:4, but the current cables on the market aren't guaranteed to do so. If at all possible, switch the cables to good quality high speed passive cables for both player to receiver and receiver to display. The length you linked to is only 10ft, which is a common length for passive cables, no need to go active cables, unless you need it to be super thin.
The K8500 is also known to be very finicky/quirky, it's very first gen in that regard.

Lots of good info here about HDMI cables that really work at 18Gbs:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-hd...eep-color.html
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post #7362 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Anonymous View Post
Random errors as in no picture at all? Kind of a kludgy solution.

Anyone have a K8500 and have it working with their 2015 Denon?
My errors were HDCP related. The K8500 is a mess. Many people have various issues including getting no picture even when running directly to their display. They released a new firmware and within a day removed it because it broke what was working for some people. I bet it's not the AVR. People with the same AVR having no problems and others with many problems using the same hardware makes no sense. Even using cables verified to work for others can sometimes not function correctly.

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post #7363 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 04:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jaseman View Post
Remember that the TV, if it's an LCD panel. will always show the image at its native resolution. I have the Denon x4200w going into a Vizio M80-C3. I have tried using the upscaling ability of the Denon and I have tried it with straight pass through and it is hard to tell any difference, at least to my eyes. However, I tend to believe the general consensus that the TV will probably do a better job at up-scaling since that is what it was designed to do. Whereas a receiver is really designed for Audio more than video. So I always just pass through the video on HDMI and let the TV do any up-scaling. YMMV
Just an FYI .. but whatever you have listed at the bottom of your signature is not readable as it's in "yellow."
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post #7364 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 04:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JC7727 View Post
I have 9 speakers all in the ceiling in a long rectangle shaped room. Left, Center, Right directly above the tv in the ceiling with 3 speakers on each side of the room running from the front to the back. The 1st two ceiling speakers are in between the tv and the main listening area, the next two are lined up to the main listing area (couch), the last two are behind the main listening area. Which setup should I use for the x-6200W, I also have another two speakers outside for which I am using an external amp, I am wondering if I can stop using this.

Thank You
1. Certainly not ideal with all in ceiling speakers, however, one possible configuration (as there are several you can experiment using) is shown below from front to back:

1st three: FL/C/FR
Next two: Top Front
Next two: Surround
Next two: Top Rear


2. The X6200W is a 9CH AVR so if you plan on running all 9 speakers in the main room, you would have to continue using the external amp for the two Zone 2 (outside) speakers.
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post #7365 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Count on late spring and if it comes sooner, great!
Having bought the receiver almost 8 months ago now It's pretty ridiculous how long they've taken in my opinion. I understand it's not Denon (D&M's) fault, but maybe they shouldn't have advertised a product upgrade that won't arrive literally for a year.

DTS really dropped the ball with all the bugs and delays. Their DTS Headphone X didn't take nearly as long and came out in 2014 iirc.

I won't like a bugged firmware release either, but it's pretty sad that a new 2016 product cycle is about to come out and the 2015 still hasn't gotten the promised DTS:X update (which is a very essential selling point).

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post #7366 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 04:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JC7727 View Post
Hello,

Quick question, I have to drive 9 speakers can I use the X4200? In my current system I have the rear four speakers producing the same sound this is know as surrounds A+B. Can I still do this on the X4200, the manual is not clear.

Thank You
Yes, using an external 2CH amp connected to the X4200W you can drive all 9 speakers, however, not in your former A+B configuration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC7727 View Post
I had a 3808ci and I was able to do with my using surround speakers A + B. I can no longer do this? There were not connected in parallel, they all had their own speaker terminal. Surround A + Surround B + Surround Back. The 3808 was also a 7.1 system.
Denon has dropped that configuration feature and so is no longer available on current models. You would be better served moving the second pair of "side surrounds" up to the ceiling if possible and configure them as Top Middle or Top Rear.

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post #7367 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by TheCoolDoc View Post
Having bought the receiver almost 8 months ago now It's pretty ridiculous how long they've taken in my opinion. I understand it's not Denon (D&M's) fault, but maybe they shouldn't have advertised a product upgrade that won't arrive literally for a year.

DTS really dropped the ball with all the bugs and delays. Their DTS Headphone X didn't take nearly as long and came out in 2014 iirc.

I won't like a bugged firmware release either, but it's pretty sad that a new 2016 product cycle is about to come out and the 2015 still hasn't gotten the promised DTS:X update (which is a very essential selling point).

Essential might be a strong word because there are not that many DTS:X soundtracks out there. At least when you compare it to Atmos which I forsee will be the immersive audio standard. I don't think DTS will be able to push Dolby out this time.
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post #7368 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 04:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TheCoolDoc View Post
Having bought the receiver almost 8 months ago now It's pretty ridiculous how long they've taken in my opinion. I understand it's not Denon (D&M's) fault, but maybe they shouldn't have advertised a product upgrade that won't arrive literally for a year.

DTS really dropped the ball with all the bugs and delays. Their DTS Headphone X didn't take nearly as long and came out in 2014 iirc.

I won't like a bugged firmware release either, but it's pretty sad that a new 2016 product cycle is about to come out and the 2015 still hasn't gotten the promised DTS:X update (which is a very essential selling point.


Exactly. No brand mfr realized how long DTS would delay in releasing the firmware not to mention didn't expect it to be buggy.
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post #7369 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 06:12 AM
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My New S910W

Hello all, I just got the S910W (am expecting it Friday). It will be paired with my 2014 model Samsung UN65HU8550 4K TV and the new K8500 UHD player. I also bought the Samsung SEK-3500 (the "one connect evolution kit" that is supposed to give my 2014 model TV HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2). In theory this should all work flawlessly and give me 4K and HDR all around. In practice we will have to see. Does anyone else have this setup or something similar?
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post #7370 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by blaket81 View Post
Hello all, I just got the S910W (am expecting it Friday). It will be paired with my 2014 model Samsung UN65HU8550 4K TV and the new K8500 UHD player. I also bought the Samsung SEK-3500 (the "one connect evolution kit" that is supposed to give my 2014 model TV HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2). In theory this should all work flawlessly and give me 4K and HDR all around. In practice we will have to see. Does anyone else have this setup or something similar?
You'll likely need to purchase the new 4k/UHD 18gbps HDMI cables (non-Redmere which are causing issues).
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post #7371 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
As JD mentioned previously, you'll need to get a 3rd party HDMI-to-Component (or composite) converter. They aren't absurdly expensive.
We have run into this issue because many of our clients prefer that all the "ugly hardware" be in the basement, with only the TV and speakers upstairs. One solution that we have considered to ease reading of the menus is a cheap (<$100) flat-panel TV that would simply become a part of our tool kit, and thus travel with us to all client sites.
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post #7372 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
You'll likely need to purchase the new 4k/UHD 18gbps HDMI cables (non-Redmere which are causing issues).
Thanks for reminding me jd, I bought amazon basics labeled "latest standard" with HDMI 2.0 support and rated 18gbps, I hope these suffice. I bought two of them, one will go from receiver to SEK (the SEK basically replaces all the inputs for the TV and connects to the TV via a proprietary "one connect" cable which suspiciously looks like display port). The other cable will go to the UHD player. All my other devices are HDMI 1.4 and don't even have any 4K upscaling of any kind, so I see no reason to replace those.
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post #7373 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
We have run into this issue because many of our clients prefer that all the "ugly hardware" be in the basement, with only the TV and speakers upstairs. One solution that we have considered to ease reading of the menus is a cheap (<$100) flat-panel TV that would simply become a part of our tool kit, and thus travel with us to all client sites.
Yup .. that works and also used by PJ only owners who don't want to fire up the PJ by simply placing a small 12" flat panel in their rack room.
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post #7374 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 08:20 AM
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I want to connect a sacd player with a denon x1200.
Do you know if denon x1200 supports dsd over hdmi?
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post #7375 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I want to connect a sacd player with a denon x1200.
Do you know if denon x1200 supports dsd over hdmi?
It does not, rather the X3200W is the lowest model with that feature. You can however, connect via USB if able.
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post #7376 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
Again that's not true. People have used cables that are confirmed to work for someone else and get random errors for seemingly no reason. I think the player has issues doing the HDCP handshake because it is random. Like I said, same movie played two times gives different results with no changes. If the cables were to blame it would always happen. Sometimes I get the HDCP error on the main menu and I can stop it, then start it again and get no error. It's like the player just decides to throw a fit.
I don't think that is true. With some cheap cables they worked fine with my original setup (Sony receiver and various components). When I switched out some components, I started running into various problems but not all the time. Replacing the cable fixed the problems.

It seems some equipment combinations tolerate borderline cables better than others.
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post #7377 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post
I don't think that is true. With some cheap cables they worked fine with my original setup (Sony receiver and various components). When I switched out some components, I started running into various problems but not all the time. Replacing the cable fixed the problems.

It seems some equipment combinations tolerate borderline cables better than others.
Very true.
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post #7378 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by blaket81 View Post
Thanks for reminding me jd, I bought amazon basics labeled "latest standard" with HDMI 2.0 support and rated 18gbps, I hope these suffice. I bought two of them, one will go from receiver to SEK (the SEK basically replaces all the inputs for the TV and connects to the TV via a proprietary "one connect" cable which suspiciously looks like display port). The other cable will go to the UHD player. All my other devices are HDMI 1.4 and don't even have any 4K upscaling of any kind, so I see no reason to replace those.
I use these two brands (if you use Redmere cables, you must be sure there's only one in the chain otherwise you'll have problems):

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13592

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_865HDMI...t.html?tp=2398
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post #7379 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by JC7727 View Post
I have 9 speakers all in the ceiling in a long rectangle shaped room. Left, Center, Right directly above the tv in the ceiling with 3 speakers on each side of the room running from the front to the back. The 1st two ceiling speakers are in between the tv and the main listening area, the next two are lined up to the main listing area (couch), the last two are behind the main listening area. Which setup should I use for the x-6200W, I also have another two speakers outside for which I am using an external amp, I am wondering if I can stop using this.



Thank You


I fear you're not going to be all that pleased with the sound you're going to get from having all your speakers in the ceiling. Don't expect any sort of atoms/dtsx immersiveness, there's no height variables at play.

Is there any way you can use on floor or on wall for your LCR and a pair of surrounds?
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post #7380 of 17458 Old 04-06-2016, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
My errors were HDCP related. The K8500 is a mess. Many people have various issues including getting no picture even when running directly to their display. They released a new firmware and within a day removed it because it broke what was working for some people. I bet it's not the AVR. People with the same AVR having no problems and others with many problems using the same hardware makes no sense. Even using cables verified to work for others can sometimes not function correctly.


See this article - it seems to describe exactly what your going through - and it turns out to be cable related. "The Samsung player's home splash screen (above) gets output at a resolution of 3840 x 2160P at 60Hz with a YCbCr 4:4:4 8-bit signal type. This is the maximum resolution provided for in the HDMI spec and it requires a bandwidth of just under 18 Gbps!". Many HDMI cables (as mentioned by another poster) including the current Redmere chip won't handle this. The article then testes various cables and reports on the ones that work.

Read more at http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...4CRV7PBcTBH.99
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...B5hEX2vVADk.97
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