The "OFFICIAL" 2015 Denon "S-series" / "X-series" AVR Owner's thread + FAQ (HDCP 2.2) - Page 288 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8611 of 17771 Old 06-01-2016, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
It's much easier to speak in terms of Audyssey in an Audyssey thread rather than having to address each mfr that has used Audyssey over the years.

No doubt that not everyone prefers using Audyssey ... however, to say that in "100's of setups" something as minor as the distance has been set wrong ... yeh ... more than likely a procedural error to be sure.
If you'd like to explain what "procedural" errors are when it comes to plonking a mic on a tripod in between home theater seats in a dead silent environment... I'm all ears - pun intended!
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post #8612 of 17771 Old 06-01-2016, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
If you'd like to explain what "procedural" errors are when it comes to plonking a mic on a tripod in between home theater seats in a dead silent environment... I'm all ears - pun intended!
I once saw a guy hand holding the mic and physically pointing it at each speaker as it was chirping. He swore he was doing it correctly. Another guy was getting wacky readings because he didn't realize his mic was located directly below his AC vent and blowing air over the mic. One guy I know swore off Audessey forever when he couldn't get accurate reading from a room with only 3 walls. Audyssey isn't perfect, neither are the consumers trying to implement it.
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post #8613 of 17771 Old 06-01-2016, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mborner View Post
I once saw a guy hand holding the mic and physically pointing it at each speaker as it was chirping. He swore he was doing it correctly. Another guy was getting wacky readings because he didn't realize his mic was located directly below his AC vent and blowing air over the mic. One guy I know swore off Audessey forever when he couldn't get accurate reading from a room with only 3 walls. Audyssey isn't perfect, neither are the consumers trying to implement it.
Well, that's clearly not the case here.

I just don't trust a calibration that doesn't get things right that I CAN see. Who can say what is wrong that I CAN'T see, you know?
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post #8614 of 17771 Old 06-01-2016, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
Also, let me link this to you:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...a-1726.html#e5

"e)5. Audyssey has set my satellite speaker distances incorrectly - should I just change them?

Incorrect distance settings for the satellite speakers usually indicates a procedural error when measuring, and the subsequent EQ is likely to be poor. Be sure to read the relevant section of the FAQ or '101' and then run Audyssey again. If the problem persists even when you are sure you are using the correct procedure, post your problem in the Official Audyssey Thread for expert help."

That basically rules out Audyssey completely as a viable calibration tool. I've never once seen it provide accurate distances for speakers. Not once. And I've set up probably 100 home theater environments in my years doing stuff like this. Unless somehow I've been doing it wrong each and every time...

As I said, the whole Audyssey thing seems like a bunch of smoke and mirrors to me - snake oil, if you will. I'm happy to be proven wrong, of course, but until then... I like my ears. They work well.
From your last several messages, it's clear you're anti-Audyssey. But I would recommend trying it one more time with the XT32 on the X4200 when you get it. For me, it was night and day better than the regular XT, so perhaps you'll have better results if you have an open mind.

All I have to "adjust" after it's done is changing the LR speakers back to small and bumping up my center channel +2 db (personal preference.)
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post #8615 of 17771 Old 06-01-2016, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by williamwallace View Post
From your last several messages, it's clear you're anti-Audyssey. But I would recommend trying it one more time with the XT32 on the X4200 when you get it. For me, it was night and day better than the regular XT, so perhaps you'll have better results if you have an open mind.

All I have to "adjust" after it's done is changing the LR speakers back to small and bumping up my center channel +2 db (personal preference.)
I will definitely try it on the X4200 and see if I notice any improvements, of course. I'm not anti-anything. I think if the tech were more transparent, maybe it would make more sense to many of us. No doubt, to me at least, it needs a user interface overhaul to provide more information on what it's actually doing.

For giggles, I pulled out the mic from my 3313CI, and ran another couple of calibrations just now. It's still seeing odd difference in speaker distances that make zero sense to me. My surrounds, for example, are positioned around 5.5 feet from the center seat in my room, on either side of the listener. The MultiEQ XT is picking one up as 4.2 feet, and the other at 6.5 feet. I repeated this reading over and over multiple times. There's no "procedural" error here, except that the procedure doesn't work for me, because... reasons.

Anyway, I'll wait till the X4200 appears on sale again, and pick one up. I'll hopefully have better luck with that calibration, but won't hold my breath.
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post #8616 of 17771 Old 06-01-2016, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
You'll need to do a few microprocessor resets in a row and if no joy, send it in for warranty repair.
Well I did multiple microprocessor resets, no joy. It was brand new (10 days ). Fry's swapped it out today and still the same. I have an x4000 and 2 older Denon's as well so the 4200 is not my first Denonrodeo just the first Denon to be quarrelsome.

Any other ideas?

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post #8617 of 17771 Old 06-01-2016, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by gtgray View Post
Well I multiple microprocessor resets, no joy. It was brand new (10 days ). Fry's swapped it out today and still the same. I have an x4000 and 2 older Denon's as well so the 4200 is not my first Denonrodeo just the first Denon to be quarrelsome.

Any other ideas?
gtgray - where are you located? If you're in Seattle...
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post #8618 of 17771 Old 06-01-2016, 05:56 PM
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gtgray - where are you located? If you're in Seattle...
In Houston.
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post #8619 of 17771 Old 06-01-2016, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by gtgray View Post
In Houston.
Bit of a schlep, or I'd offer to come help.
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post #8620 of 17771 Old 06-01-2016, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
Bit of a schlep, or I'd offer to come help.
Appreciate the offer. Time to investigate the source I guess. I can't imagine both of these units being bad. Much more likely something else is amiss. Both units' firmware was updated at the end of setup.
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post #8621 of 17771 Old 06-01-2016, 07:06 PM
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New coax adapters installed, sub is now working. What a PITA! They are a bit fiddly and I may still go wireless for the sub to clean up the install. Thanks for your help everyone.
Some people have reported that using a wireless connection introduces more of a delay in the audio coming from the sub (or other wireless speakers) than the receiver can compensate for. There's a big delay in converting to and from the wireless RF signal.
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post #8622 of 17771 Old 06-01-2016, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
According to the Audyssey FAQ, that's not Denon doing the distance etc - that's Audyssey doing it... So you have me more confused. See my above post before yours.

Maybe if the setup provided some interesting technical info about what it is doing, there wouldn't be so many discussions about its validity?
William, I don't know what is going on with your theater(s), but Audyssey, and then AccuEQ have always set my distances very correctly. I even put a tape measure on it to check.

There is one exception--the subwoofer. I believe that I saw somewhere that the processor is actually measuring the time delay...makes sense. So, I set that by tape.

Cross-overs--no, neither of them set those correctly...80 Hz across the board, except for height speakers...120 Hz.

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post #8623 of 17771 Old 06-01-2016, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdwilly3 View Post
William, I don't know what is going on with your theater(s), but Audyssey, and then AccuEQ have always set my distances very correctly. I even put a tape measure on it to check.

There is one exception--the subwoofer. I believe that I saw somewhere that the processor is actually measuring the time delay...makes sense. So, I set that by tape.

Cross-overs--no, neither of them set those correctly...80 Hz across the board, except for height speakers...120 Hz.
Interesting, Audyssey guide suggests not changing that sub distance....

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...a-1726.html#e4
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post #8624 of 17771 Old 06-01-2016, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

Anyway, I'll wait till the X4200 appears on sale again, and pick one up. I'll hopefully have better luck with that calibration, but won't hold my breath.
I use to feel the same way as you. I would always use my trusty Radio Shack sound meter and dial it in myself. That was before I tried Audyssey XT-32 on my Denon 4200. I have a horrible room for sound with a huge open space, 18' from the front speakers and 20'ceilings. The Audyssey did a better job than I could ever do. Only things I changed were the crossovers and added 3.0 on the dialog level adjust. Curious to see your thoughts after giving it go...
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post #8625 of 17771 Old 06-01-2016, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Angry Neighbors View Post
I use to feel the same way as you. I would always use my trusty Radio Shack sound meter and dial it in myself. That was before I tried Audyssey XT-32 on my Denon 4200. I have a horrible room for sound with a huge open space, 18' from the front speakers and 20'ceilings. The Audyssey did a better job than I could ever do. Only things I changed were the crossovers and added 3.0 on the dialog level adjust. Curious to see your thoughts after giving it go...
Good to know. Just waiting for Fry's now.
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post #8626 of 17771 Old 06-01-2016, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdwilly3 View Post
There is one exception--the subwoofer. I believe that I saw somewhere that the processor is actually measuring the time delay...makes sense. So, I set that by tape.
You need to trust Audyssey on the sub distance because of the sub's electronics/DSP. Since there is a delay in modern day subs, Audyssey needs to set them further away from their actual distance to speed up the signal.
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post #8627 of 17771 Old 06-02-2016, 03:35 AM
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I am looking for some help. I have the following setup.

LG 65OLEDG6V
Panasonic UB900 UHD Blu-Ray player
X6200W setup as 6.1.2

Issue
No signal is detected on the TV when connected to its UHD enabled ports on HDMI 1 & 2 and playing and Blu-Ray from the Panasonic through the X6200 via its monitor 1 output. If you connect the player directly to the TV you get full UHD on the TV without issue. Also if you connect the secondary HDMI Audio out to the Amp it fails to detect sound. If I bypass the amp again all works.

Has anyone experienced these issues.

- Firmware version and serial number of the AVR-X6200
Firmware 6772-4801-3251-04, DTS V3.90.35.00
- Make and model of the Panasonic player including firmware version
Blue-Ray: Panasonic UB900 Firmware 1.04
- Make and model of TV including firmware version
TV: LG OLED65G6V, Firmware 03.10.06-Z, Dolby Vision SW:0.5.100;GPU:1
- Details on cabling and connectivity, please include any details on forms of video distribution, length of cable and connection used
HDMI Cables are 2Mtr supporting 4K
- Any video settings made on the source device
Blu Ray player set to 4K and 4.4.4
Blu Ray also tried Auto
Denon setup to I/P scaling off
LG no control on this setting. Fail to get Picture on HDMI 1 and
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post #8628 of 17771 Old 06-02-2016, 04:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ruesha81 View Post
I am looking for some help. I have the following setup.

LG 65OLEDG6V
Panasonic UB900 UHD Blu-Ray player
X6200W setup as 6.1.2

Issue
No signal is detected on the TV when connected to its UHD enabled ports on HDMI 1 & 2 and playing and Blu-Ray from the Panasonic through the X6200 via its monitor 1 output. If you connect the player directly to the TV you get full UHD on the TV without issue. Also if you connect the secondary HDMI Audio out to the Amp it fails to detect sound. If I bypass the amp again all works.

Has anyone experienced these issues.

- Firmware version and serial number of the AVR-X6200
Firmware 6772-4801-3251-04, DTS V3.90.35.00
- Make and model of the Panasonic player including firmware version
Blue-Ray: Panasonic UB900 Firmware 1.04
- Make and model of TV including firmware version
TV: LG OLED65G6V, Firmware 03.10.06-Z, Dolby Vision SW:0.5.100;GPU:1
- Details on cabling and connectivity, please include any details on forms of video distribution, length of cable and connection used
HDMI Cables are 2Mtr supporting 4K
- Any video settings made on the source device
Blu Ray player set to 4K and 4.4.4
Blu Ray also tried Auto
Denon setup to I/P scaling off
LG no control on this setting. Fail to get Picture on HDMI 1 and

Ensure you are using the more current "Premium" 4k/18Gbps HDMI cables.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/pre...n_Program.aspx

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store...hdmi-cable.htm
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post #8629 of 17771 Old 06-02-2016, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
If you'd like to explain what "procedural" errors are when it comes to plonking a mic on a tripod in between home theater seats in a dead silent environment... I'm all ears - pun intended!
Definitely a puzzler then if using a tripod as the Audyssey mic (if not defective) has been known to provide very accurate results (in regards to speaker distance) since first being released 10 years ago.
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post #8630 of 17771 Old 06-02-2016, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
You need to trust Audyssey on the sub distance because of the sub's electronics/DSP. Since there is a delay in modern day subs, Audyssey needs to set them further away from their actual distance to speed up the signal.
It has been awhile since I did that with the sub...actually, I think last time that I just left it alone.

But, my recollection is that it actually measured it as closer than farther away. My sub is the original model of the SVS PB12-Plus, that is, pre-builtin DSP. My recollection is that I put the sub into bypass mode so that the AVR is supposed to run it.

I will get my X6200 this Monday and start over, so we will see. I will try to doucument everything so that I can keep track of it and report back here. It will be interesting, as always...
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post #8631 of 17771 Old 06-02-2016, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Definitely a puzzler then if using a tripod as the Audyssey mic (if not defective) has been known to provide very accurate results (in regards to speaker distance) since first being released 10 years ago.
All I can say is I'm looking forward to trying the X4200.
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post #8632 of 17771 Old 06-02-2016, 10:28 AM
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(x3200w). I’m havingan issue with pass through and standby, which I hope you guys can helpwith. With the TV (new Visio P65) on, Ican turn off the 3200 and pass through still works. Without touching the 3200, if I turn off theTV and then back on, I get no signal detected on my TV. I believe this started with the Visio. My old Panny plasma worked fine. I know this could be related to the Visio,but I’m wondering if anyone had any suggestions to try. I’ve tried changing use last source vs aspecific port. Changing ARC settingsmade no difference.
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post #8633 of 17771 Old 06-02-2016, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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(x3200w). I’m havingan issue with pass through and standby, which I hope you guys can helpwith. With the TV (new Visio P65) on, Ican turn off the 3200 and pass through still works. Without touching the 3200, if I turn off theTV and then back on, I get no signal detected on my TV. I believe this started with the Visio. My old Panny plasma worked fine. I know this could be related to the Visio,but I’m wondering if anyone had any suggestions to try. I’ve tried changing use last source vs aspecific port. Changing ARC settingsmade no difference.
Try using a different input on the TV as long as not using ARC.
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post #8634 of 17771 Old 06-02-2016, 11:41 AM
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Is there any chance of a big countdown clock, can't be long now till we get the DTS:X update.
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post #8635 of 17771 Old 06-02-2016, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there any chance of a big countdown clock, can't be long now till we get the DTS:X update.
Should be released by August when the 2016 models get it as well.
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post #8636 of 17771 Old 06-02-2016, 12:18 PM
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Quick question. If I'm running all of my speakers with an external amp except for my rear surrounds, would it make sense to use the eco mode to further keep temps down? (X6200w)
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post #8637 of 17771 Old 06-02-2016, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quick question. If I'm running all of my speakers with an external amp except for my rear surrounds, would it make sense to use the eco mode to further keep temps down? (X6200w)
Yup.
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post #8638 of 17771 Old 06-02-2016, 12:58 PM
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Yup.
Lol kewl
What exactly is going on though when eco is engaged? Just lower amp power?
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post #8639 of 17771 Old 06-02-2016, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
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Yup.
There are also a number of computer cooler fans that have something like a 10,000 MTBF life.

I have 2 sitting on top of my TX-NR 1030 that run 24/7. They are very, very quiet.

Cheap insurance...
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post #8640 of 17771 Old 06-02-2016, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMacFunkin View Post
Is there any chance of a big countdown clock, can't be long now till we get the DTS:X update.
Countdown to DTS-X Firmware update (maybe)

http://www.7is7.com/otto/countdown.html?year=2016&month=08&date=31&ts=24&hr s=23&min=59&sec=59&lang=en&show=dhms&mode=t&cdir=d own&bgcolor=%23CCFFFF&fgcolor=%23000000&title=Coun tdown%20To%20DTS-X

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