The "OFFICIAL" 2015 Denon "S-series" / "X-series" AVR Owner's thread + FAQ (HDCP 2.2) - Page 49 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1441 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 04:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by crimsonblue View Post
Any word on when the 6200 will be posted with official specs and when it will be shipping? My credit card is twitching with anticipation.
No clue when Denon will be updating the X6200W webpage, but dealers are receiving the X6200W this week.
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post #1442 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
No, the X4200W can only do a 5.2.4 with added 2CH amp, rather the X6200W or SR7010 would be required for a 7.2.4 setup w/2CH amp.
Thanks

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post #1443 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
It doesn't happen with bluray but at the same time it's a different cable.
I looked and nothing is loose.
With handshake issues does it get fixed with updates or would I need to exchange the unit?

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
I had exactly same thing. Blu-rays worked fine but when BD player was set to 4:4:4 and I played a *DVD* I got frequent dropouts for pic for a few secs. Switching to 4:2:2 fixed it (temporarily), but new HDMI cable solved it permanently

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post #1444 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Those of you with 4k TVs and longer than 10' HDMI cable runs would be well served watching the YouTube video that batpig linked to a few posts back as some of you will most likely find, that when you purchase a new 4k/UHD Blu Ray player, you will have to upgrade your cables to better quality High Speed cables (if an off brand cable has been purchased).

Hi JD

Just curious, what are your preferred HDMI brands (esp. for longer runs)?

I've had good experiences for Aurum Ultra and Accell

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post #1445 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 07:43 AM
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Windows 8.1/10/Windows Phone remote app

Have to give this guy props for his remote control application for Denon:

MyDenon Remote
https://www.microsoft.com/store/apps/9wzdncrfj824

I love that the whole of my house can be controlled from the comfort of my PC. All 4 Denon's show up and work smoothly. From what I know, this app will control AVRs from the 11 or 12 series forward. Only requirement is that your phone/PC and AVR are on the same network.

Just a high quality app.
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post #1446 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalevolentHamster View Post
Hi JD

Just curious, what are your preferred HDMI brands (esp. for longer runs)?

I've had good experiences for Aurum Ultra and Accell
Cables provided by forum sponsors Monoprice and Blue Jeans Cables are generally very good quality. Some have been able to use the Monoprice 50' HDMI non-Redmere cables with 1080p video without having to use an HDMI extender to boost the signal strength. 4k video will be a different animal all together requiring far more bandwidth and although technically an existing High Speed cable should work just fine, some will likely have issues with poor quality cables. If you can confirm those cables work with 4k/HDCP 2.2 content, I will add them to my post 4 on page 1.
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post #1447 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by buffalofloyd View Post
Received my x4200W in the mail yesterday. Hooked it up and calibrated the speakers with Audyssey, all good. Sound is pretty excellent so far with my 7.1 setup with front heights. Waiting to get my speaker mounts to expand to 9.1 with rear heights. Two things I don't like already.

1. With my PC hooked up through HDMI and Video Conversion set to ON, text looks quite terrible, I'm not exactly sure how to describe it but it just looks bad to me. This was not an issue compared to my 2313CI and 2311CI where everything looked really nice and text was nice and crisp. Now I would ideally never use Video Conversion because I have a good GPU and would let the TV do what it does but with it set to OFF I lose the On Screen Display on top of whatever is playing, but the picture looks great, as it should. There is a 3-4 second delay while the screen goes black and then I only get the OSD. So moving to the x4200W I have lost my OSD on the PC which is my primary media source and was one of my favorite features.

I use a media center as my primary source on my home theater as well. HDMI out. I did a lot of testing with video processing and only concluded that it was the color that changed. The text and detail are identical. Odd you are getting that.
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post #1448 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Cables provided by forum sponsors Monoprice and Blue Jeans Cables are generally very good quality. Some have been able to use the Monoprice 50' HDMI non-Redmere cables with 1080p video without having to use an HDMI extender to boost the signal strength. 4k video will be a different animal all together requiring far more bandwidth and although technically an existing High Speed cable should work just fine, some will likely have issues with poor quality cables. If you can confirm those cables work with 4k/HDCP 2.2 content, I will add them to my post 4 on page 1.
Thanks JD

Only tried the Aurum Ultra so far with 4:4:4. Don't have a 4K source yet (other than TV's internal apps), so I HDCP2.2 doesn;t come into play ye (I guess)

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post #1449 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MalevolentHamster View Post
Thanks JD

Only tried the Aurum Ultra so far with 4:4:4. Don't have a 4K source yet (other than TV's internal apps), so I HDCP2.2 doesn;t come into play ye (I guess)
AFAIK, the only external (reasonably priced) HDCP 2.2/4k source is the Sony FMP-X10 4K Ultra HD Media Player.
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post #1450 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 09:03 AM
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Quick question?

Is it better to use a conventional 2 Chanel stereo AMP or a dedicated AMP(Audisource AMP-100)
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post #1451 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
No clue when Denon will be updating the X6200W webpage, but dealers are receiving the X6200W this week.
Awesome.. Any pricing info?

Mike
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post #1452 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
AFAIK, the only external (reasonably priced) HDCP 2.2/4k source is the Sony FMP-X10 4K Ultra HD Media Player.
The Nvidia Shield TV is HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 and 4K. I am running two of them
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post #1453 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
Quick question?

Is it better to use a conventional 2 Chanel stereo AMP or a dedicated AMP(Audisource AMP-100)
Doesn't matter as long as the 2CH stereo amp can be set to DIRECT mode (ie. no signal processing).
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post #1454 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by sikclown View Post
The Nvidia Shield TV is HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 and 4K. I am running two of them
Yeah Nvidia Shield is pretty amazing (super fast too) although pretty much limited to Netflix and Youtube for 4k content at the moment. They need to support more providers....
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post #1455 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MikeK78 View Post
Awesome.. Any pricing info?

Mike
As was the case last year, the X6200W, SR7010, and AV7200MKII all have the same MSRP, only this year it increased $200 to $2199 USD.
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post #1456 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Although it has 9CH, the SR7010 is actually the sister model to the X4200W so in that sense it is better.
Ok, thx!

Do you, or anyone know is Marantz will be offering a higher end sister model to the 62/7200? And if so, would it also be considered lower quality?

On a side note, I'm pretty sure I've settled on a 6200 or 7200. I'm planning on 4 ATMOS speakers (not sure if up-firing or in-ceiling, but probably the latter).

What do others in that same setup use for the other 2 channels as a power source?

Can anyone recommend an amp that's comparative in wattage output to the Denon's?

Or, as I've been reading, if I went with a 5 channel amp as apposed to two, I could have two other options that would be better:

1. Run the LCR's off the external amp plus two others. That would free up more power to the other channels on the Denon's amp and not cause it to work so hard. Do I have that right?

2. Bi-amp the LCR's. Is that worth it? Has anyone tried that?

What's everyone's thoughts on those 3 routes I mentioned above?
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post #1457 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The X6200W will be using the same 32 bit DAC as on the SR7010, but not the same 32bit DAC as used on the X7200WA. The X6200W also uses better quality amps than are on the SR7010 and is mfr'd in Japan while the SR7010 is mfr'd in China along with the other lower Denon and Marantz models.
Getting close to decision time, with the release of the X6200W. So, the DAC for the X7200WA is more capable than that on the X6200W. Do you have an opinion on how the Yamaha 3050 will rank among those two? I really like the Yamaha DSP programs and wonder if the complexity they require may result in a very capable DAC, as well?

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post #1458 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
Getting close to decision time, with the release of the X6200W. So, the DAC for the X7200WA is more capable than that on the X6200W. Do you have an opinion on how the Yamaha 3050 will rank among those two? I really like the Yamaha DSP programs and wonder if the complexity they require may result in a very capable DAC, as well?
No reviews out yet, however, both would be very comparable models.
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post #1459 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
Ok, thx!

Do you, or anyone know is Marantz will be offering a higher end sister model to the 62/7200? And if so, would it also be considered lower quality?

On a side note, I'm pretty sure I've settled on a 6200 or 7200. I'm planning on 4 ATMOS speakers (not sure if up-firing or in-ceiling, but probably the latter).

What do others in that same setup use for the other 2 channels as a power source?

Can anyone recommend an amp that's comparative in wattage output to the Denon's?

Or, as I've been reading, if I went with a 5 channel amp as apposed to two, I could have two other options that would be better:

1. Run the LCR's off the external amp plus two others. That would free up more power to the other channels on the Denon's amp and not cause it to work so hard. Do I have that right?

2. Bi-amp the LCR's. Is that worth it? Has anyone tried that?

What's everyone's thoughts on those 3 routes I mentioned above?
a. No, as the SR7010 is the highest level Marantz AVR to be released for 2015.
b. Depends on what speakers you want to amp. If only the additional 2 height speakers, an AudioSource Amp100 will work just fine.

1. Yes, if using a 5CH amp (eg. Emotiva XPA-5), power the FL/C/FR and 2 additional speakers to free up more headroom on the AVR.
2. No, not worth it as doing so provides no additional power to the speakers.
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post #1460 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
a. No, as the SR7010 is the highest level Marantz AVR to be released for 2015.
b. Depends on what speakers you want to amp. If only the additional 2 height speakers, an AudioSource Amp100 will work just fine.

1. Yes, if using a 5CH amp (eg. Emotiva XPA-5), power the FL/C/FR and 2 additional speakers to free up more headroom on the AVR.
2. No, not worth it as doing so provides no additional power to the speakers.
The AudioSource Amp100 I found on big river states only 50 watts at 8 ohms. Is that comparative to the 62/7200? Are they really only pushing out that with all channels driven?

Perhaps I'm not understanding bi-amping. Isn't that when you connect 2 channels on the amp to double the power for 1 speaker channel?
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post #1461 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
The AudioSource Amp100 I found on big river states only 50 watts at 8 ohms. Is that comparative to the 62/7200? Are they really only pushing out that with all channels driven?
No, it's not as powerful as the internal amps but that's why JD suggested it's a good idea if you want to use it for a pair of height speakers which shouldn't receive too much action.

Basically there are two paths to take: (1) use an inexpensive (weaker) amp for the back heights, which are the least important speakers, and let the stronger amps in the receiver handle the rest. Or (2) get a more powerful amp for the most important speakers (LCR front soundstage) and then the internal amps power the other speakers.

Which path you choose depends on a lot of variables -- your budget, room size, speaker sensitivity, desired volume levels, etc.


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Perhaps I'm not understanding bi-amping. Isn't that when you connect 2 channels on the amp to double the power for 1 speaker channel?
Yes but it does NOT double the power really. This is what's known as "passive bi-amping" since you aren't bypassing the internal passive crossover components in the speaker. True bi-amping means having an active external crossover and then optimizing the amplifiers to work with the speaker drivers they are tasked with driver. Your typical speaker that has two pairs of binding posts is probably just splitting the woofer and tweeter, and the tweeter takes up very, very little power. And the signal is identical to each pair of binding posts (the receiver just copies it) so it still has to be filtered through the internal crossover in the speaker. The net results is you really don't get any actual power increase... MAYBE a tiny bit of extra headroom. But nothing likely to be audible at all.

The best thing to do is simply get an amplifier that is adequate to power the speakers you are trying to drive and not worry about "passive bi-amping". All of the above basically means it's a waste of resources for those two extra amp channels. Or just save the money if you can find an equivalent 3ch amp instead of the 5ch amp.

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post #1462 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
The AudioSource Amp100 I found on big river states only 50 watts at 8 ohms. Is that comparative to the 62/7200? Are they really only pushing out that with all channels driven?

Perhaps I'm not understanding bi-amping. Isn't that when you connect 2 channels on the amp to double the power for 1 speaker channel?
BiAmping is where you drive the woofer with one amp and tweeters with another. Minimizes the impact of the two different spectrums on each other.
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post #1463 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 01:20 PM
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I use a media center as my primary source on my home theater as well. HDMI out. I did a lot of testing with video processing and only concluded that it was the color that changed. The text and detail are identical. Odd you are getting that.
Well, I can tell a difference for sure between the 4200 and my 2313. Nothing seemed to change at all with the 2313. I didn't do extensive testing myself but when I noticed that text on web pages and and in Word looked off I immediately turned off the video processing and noticed an improvement. So now I've just decided to turn off all video processing on all sources, which is annoying when I want to adjust or check something but it will have to do.

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post #1464 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by buffalofloyd View Post
Well, I can tell a difference for sure between the 4200 and my 2313. Nothing seemed to change at all with the 2313. I didn't do extensive testing myself but when I noticed that text on web pages and and in Word looked off I immediately turned off the video processing and noticed an improvement. So now I've just decided to turn off all video processing on all sources, which is annoying when I want to adjust or check something but it will have to do.
Try setting the Video Conversion back ON and instead set the Video Mode (p. 209 Owner's manual) to GAME instead of AUTO.
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post #1465 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 02:02 PM
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Try setting the Video Conversion back ON and instead set the Video Mode (p. 209 Owner's manual) to GAME instead of AUTO.
Thanks, but already had all sources set to game. I will check again for the fun of it.

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post #1466 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 04:12 PM
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DAC Questions

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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The X6200W will be using the same 32 bit DAC as on the SR7010, but not the same 32bit DAC as used on the X7200WA.

Sorry if these are basic questions, but:


(1) When do a receiver's DACs come into play (i.e., with what sources, and what do they do)? I assume that most external components either do not require a DAC (e.g., analog turntable), or have their own built-in DACs (e.g., CD player). Are a receiver's DACs used for playing MP3 or FLAC files from a computer? Are a receiver's DACs involved in processing HDMI audio and/or video signals from DVD player, satellite box, etc.? Do they perform other functions?


(2) Assuming modern, good-quality DACs (which I assume are used in the 6200, and probably most or all of the Denon/Marantz line), is there any audible (or otherwise clear) benefit to the better DACs used in the 7200? My guess is that differences between the DACs used in the various Denon (and other quality) receivers would be impossible to reliably detect in double-blind testing. Is this a reasonable assumption?


Thanks


Doug
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post #1467 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 04:18 PM
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Sorry if these are basic questions, but:


(1) When do a receiver's DACs come into play (i.e., with what sources, and what do they do)? I assume that most external components either do not require a DAC (e.g., analog turntable), or have their own built-in DACs (e.g., CD player). Are a receiver's DACs used for playing MP3 or FLAC files from a computer? Are a receiver's DACs involved in processing HDMI audio and/or video signals from DVD player, satellite box, etc.? Do they perform other functions?


(2) Assuming modern, good-quality DACs (which I assume are used in the 6200, and probably most or all of the Denon/Marantz line), is there any audible (or otherwise clear) benefit to the better DACs used in the 7200? My guess is that differences between the DACs used in the various Denon (and other quality) receivers would be impossible to reliably detect in double-blind testing. Is this a reasonable assumption?
1) DAC's are nearly always in play, as they are the final step in the audio chain before the signal is sent to the amplifiers (whether internal or external). The signal sent to the amps is an analog waveform, so pretty much by definition the conversion from digital to analog MUST happen as the last step before amplification.

In these modern receivers, ALL processing is digital, operating on the decoded "raw" PCM signals. The ONLY exception to this is if your receiver offers a "pure analog path" for analog connected components, e.g. plugging in a CD player with analog RCA's and using the PURE DIRECT mode will bypass digital stuff, meaning the signal is analog the whole way through and thus doesn't have to pass through a DAC. But be aware that even if the input signal is analog, if you do ANY processing (bass management, Audyssey EQ, tone controls, etc) then it goes through an ADC step (analog to digital), gets processed, then goes back to analog (DAC).

2) Yes, that's a reasonable assumption. The differences in modern, commoditized DAC's are vanishingly small and most of the time will be inaudible.
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post #1468 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 05:28 PM
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Got my Denon X4200 2 days ago(my 4th straight Denon), got it all setup without incident. I have the same 7.1 speaker setup as before without any Atmos extra speakers. Tonight I sat down to watch Mad Max Fury Road, the movie starts and the screen on the receiver says Blu-Ray - Dolby Atmos. The disc audio menu only has languages. I recall the receiver asked during initial setup if I had Atmos and I said no. I'm not complaining, it sounds great! Does the receiver compensate for the lack of height speakers? Maybe someone has some insight.
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post #1469 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 05:35 PM
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I can now narrow down the issue that I'm having with my new X1200w. When playing an Atmos disc ( I have Mockingjay Part 1, Jupiter Ascending and a copy of Dolby's 2014 Atmos Demo disc), if you change chapters or pause/unpause and there is any decent level of volume on what is playing, there is a very noticeable, loud audio pop or glitch as the change occurs. This happens ONLY on Atmos audio. It does not happen on Dolby True or DTS Master audio nor does it happen when Dolby Surround is up scaling 2 track audio or 5.1 audio. I was on the line with a Denon rep an hour ago and over the phone she very clearly heard the audio popping. She had me turn Dynamic Volume off, and then set it to Heavy but neither had any effect on the pops. She was checking with the higher level techies when, of course, the line hung on me and I couldn't get back through for 30 minutes and gave up. On my own, I've changed the HDMI cable between my Sony S7200 BDP and the X1200 and then tried it with a Sony S6200 BDP, both excellent units and still no change. I'll call Denon back tomorrow to continue the conversation. This appears to be a decoder problem of some kind. Would a microprocessor reset have any chance of fixing this? If not, back to Best Buy it goes, perhaps for another X1200 (the Atmos sound, even with the small Onkyo 410 Dolby Front speakers, is impressive) but I may be leery at this point.
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post #1470 of 17682 Old 09-14-2015, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newjack View Post
Got my Denon X4200 2 days ago(my 4th straight Denon), got it all setup without incident. I have the same 7.1 speaker setup as before without any Atmos extra speakers. Tonight I sat down to watch Mad Max Fury Road, the movie starts and the screen on the receiver says Blu-Ray - Dolby Atmos. The disc audio menu only has languages. I recall the receiver asked during initial setup if I had Atmos and I said no. I'm not complaining, it sounds great! Does the receiver compensate for the lack of height speakers? Maybe someone has some insight.
The receiver still recognizes that it's receiving an Atmos bitstream and reports that as the input signal / surround mode. However with a standard 7.1 speakers setup you are just hearing the "core" 7.1 TrueHD channel based mix.

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