The "OFFICIAL" 2015 Denon "S-series" / "X-series" AVR Owner's thread + FAQ (HDCP 2.2) - Page 511 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15301 of 17916 Old 03-04-2018, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
No, it is impossible for the passthrough to not touch the stream. That would need straight "electrical connection passthrough" which hasn't been used for many years.

These days, there's technically no such thing as "passthrough" with HDMI now. There's only decode, process, and re-encode. What happens is this: the incoming signal from the "input" HDMI socket is decoded and unpacked. The original input bitstream has now gone forever. The AVR will then re-package up (only) the parts of the signal that it understands, without the audio because the AVR is doing the audio, into a brand new HDMI bitstream that is then sent out of the "output" HDMI socket and onwards to the TV.

By the way, the parts of the signal that it doesn't understand are just thrown away because it doesn't know how to re-package them up. This is why firmware upgrades were needed to enable this "pass-through" (it isn't really, see above, but it's easier to just call it pass-through) of dolby vision and HLG signals. It meant that Denon was given the specs on how to re-package up those particular signals.

It also means that every single time there's a new change or enhancement to the HDMI signal which Denon's firmware doesn't know about, it won't be "passed through" without yet another firmware upgrade. We didn't even get the dolby/HLG one without a very forceful campaign - they really, really didn't want to do it for us.

HTH
Mr Tick,

Thanks for the explanation. This whole idea is looking dimmer all the time. Would any of what you have said have anything to do with my 3200 not properly handling the Directv 4k signal on its way to my 4K Vizio. If I hook the Directv hdmi cable to the Denon and the output to the Vizio I get a message that says the TV is only 1080P. So D* down rez's the 4k to 1080P. When I hook it stright to the Vizio and use the optical out on the tv back to the Denon for sound the 4K works fine. I really don't like this arrangement as it eliminates the use of the Denon as a switcher.

Jack
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post #15302 of 17916 Old 03-04-2018, 08:04 PM
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X1200W... getting old?

Hi Experts... so I have a X1200W and I'm not very knowledgeable in audio/video technology. I only use it to power a 5.1 speaker system for my cable box, xbox one x, apple 4k tv, sonos, etc. Not really using all the bells and whistles it has.

In the past, I've typically upgraded TV's 2 or 3 times before I upgrade my receiver. I'm considering upgrading my main tv in the coming year. It will most likely be the next Sony flagship (whatever is post Z9D or A1E). Is the technology in the X1200W still appropriate to pass the signal without losing anything important.. HDR... etc?
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post #15303 of 17916 Old 03-05-2018, 12:11 AM
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Managed to solve my SHIELD issues by swapping the cable going out of the amp to the TV input... It was brand new from a few weeks ago... Glad i ordered one 'just in case'.
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post #15304 of 17916 Old 03-05-2018, 02:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jimmycrank View Post
Hi Experts... so I have a X1200W and I'm not very knowledgeable in audio/video technology. I only use it to power a 5.1 speaker system for my cable box, xbox one x, apple 4k tv, sonos, etc. Not really using all the bells and whistles it has.

In the past, I've typically upgraded TV's 2 or 3 times before I upgrade my receiver. I'm considering upgrading my main tv in the coming year. It will most likely be the next Sony flagship (whatever is post Z9D or A1E). Is the technology in the X1200W still appropriate to pass the signal without losing anything important.. HDR... etc?
Although these 2015 models (to include your X1200W) can pass 4k/HDR, they are not scheduled to receive the Dolby Vision + HLG update until later this summer.
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post #15305 of 17916 Old 03-05-2018, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by JackB View Post
Mr Tick,

Thanks for the explanation. This whole idea is looking dimmer all the time. Would any of what you have said have anything to do with my 3200 not properly handling the Directv 4k signal on its way to my 4K Vizio. If I hook the Directv hdmi cable to the Denon and the output to the Vizio I get a message that says the TV is only 1080P. So D* down rez's the 4k to 1080P. When I hook it stright to the Vizio and use the optical out on the tv back to the Denon for sound the 4K works fine. I really don't like this arrangement as it eliminates the use of the Denon as a switcher.
I have similar equipment, Vizio M-60/DirecTV/Denon 6200 - here's how I have my system setup
DirecTV box via HDMI to HDMI 5 on Vizio
Vizio HDMI2 to Denon Sat/Cable

As an example - I have a Roku 3 connected to the Denon via HDMI for streaming. I only use the Optical Out to utilize the Vizio internal apps (Amazon/Netflix etc for 4K programming)

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post #15306 of 17916 Old 03-05-2018, 07:30 AM
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After how long does Denon usually post the update files to their website? I have twice tried to update my S710W but both attempts failed (once over wifi, once over wireless). I have to end up doing a factory reset to get out of the update retry loop, don't want to try again until the firmware can be installed via usb.

Thanks
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post #15307 of 17916 Old 03-05-2018, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by LRZNole View Post
Well it seems as if something died in the S910W as changed cables and still no picture being passed throught the unit. For a replacement what would you prefer an X2300W for $449 or an S930H for $499?
Neither.

One of the greatest features of the 910W was the analogue to HDMI conversion. Both of those models don't support that.
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post #15308 of 17916 Old 03-05-2018, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by apachehavok View Post
Neither.

One of the greatest features of the 910W was the analogue to HDMI conversion. Both of those models don't support that.
I no longer require the analog conversion so that doesn't matter to me anymore.
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post #15309 of 17916 Old 03-05-2018, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fattest View Post
After how long does Denon usually post the update files to their website? I have twice tried to update my S710W but both attempts failed (once over wifi, once over wireless). I have to end up doing a factory reset to get out of the update retry loop, don't want to try again until the firmware can be installed via usb.

Thanks
It can take 1-2 months.
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post #15310 of 17916 Old 03-05-2018, 12:33 PM
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Anyone having problems having Alexa connect to Denon Bluetooth? My wife has been complaining that she can never get the connection. I've repaired and it plays fine but next time she goes to listen to music it doesn't connect.

Family Room - Samsung JS8000 Denon X1200 NHT SuperZero and SuperCenter Front Speaker Stage Athena Micra Back Surrounds and Front Heights (5.1.2)
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post #15311 of 17916 Old 03-05-2018, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by APorter View Post
Anyone having problems having Alexa connect to Denon Bluetooth? My wife has been complaining that she can never get the connection. I've repaired and it plays fine but next time she goes to listen to music it doesn't connect.
Where is Alexa in relation to the AVR? Distance? Location? Although the 2016 and newer "H" series models are upgraded to near 100' Bluetooth reception, these non-H models only have about 30' Bluetooth reception.
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post #15312 of 17916 Old 03-05-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by locob View Post
I've just read a review of a newer Denon in "Sound & Vision" and was intrigued by the "DTS Virtual:X" feature. As I have cathedral ceiling in the HT area, I can't install ceiling speakers nor would the reflective type Atmos speakers work. Any chance our 2015 models will get the DTS Virtual:X feature in an upgrade or update or do we lack certain hardware?


Sorry for the bump, but does anyone have any info on the requirements for DTS Virtual:X and if there is any possibility for our avr's to get it in an update or upgrade?
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post #15313 of 17916 Old 03-05-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Where is Alexa in relation to the AVR? Distance? Location? Although the 2016 and newer "H" series models are upgraded to near 100' Bluetooth reception, these non-H models only have about 30' Bluetooth reception.
Echo Dot is sitting right next to the AVR.

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post #15314 of 17916 Old 03-05-2018, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by locob View Post
Sorry for the bump, but does anyone have any info on the requirements for DTS Virtual:X and if there is any possibility for our avr's to get it in an update or upgrade?
Sorry, but zero chance. Only available on the 2017 and newer models.
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post #15315 of 17916 Old 03-05-2018, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by APorter View Post
Echo Dot is sitting right next to the AVR.
Ensure the WiFi/Bluetooth antennas are securely fitted and pointing up. Also refer to post 5 of this thread and try doing a "soft reset".
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post #15316 of 17916 Old 03-05-2018, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ggsantafe View Post
I have similar equipment, Vizio M-60/DirecTV/Denon 6200 - here's how I have my system setup
DirecTV box via HDMI to HDMI 5 on Vizio
Vizio HDMI2 to Denon Sat/Cable

As an example - I have a Roku 3 connected to the Denon via HDMI for streaming. I only use the Optical Out to utilize the Vizio internal apps (Amazon/Netflix etc for 4K programming)
What is the Vizio HDMI2 to Denon Sar/Cable? Is that supposed to be audio going back to the receiver?

Jack
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post #15317 of 17916 Old 03-05-2018, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by JackB View Post
What is the Vizio HDMI2 to Denon Sar/Cable? Is that supposed to be audio going back to the receiver?
Exactly - I've always avoided ARC options, and this way the Denon has access to all available sound options.

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post #15318 of 17916 Old 03-06-2018, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
I think there's a lot of confusion indeed.

I'll spell it out super clearly, because we may be talking about different things.

In my case, I want Dolby Digital 5.1 to just be 5.1 I want DTS 5.1 to be... DTS 5.1. I want Atmos to be Atmos, and DTS: X to be DTS: X, without having to press anything on the remote. Makes sense, right? Just have whatever the receiver is receiving - played.

What's actually happening in e.g. Movie (button on the remote) is that Dolby Digital 5.1 is playing DD 5.1 + DSU and DTS 5.1 is playing DTS 5.1 Neural X. Atmos is still Atmos, and DTS: X is DTS: X, but when you have those object channels enabled (cycling the "Movie" button the remote), it's enabling the object channels for ALL sources, whether they have object streams or not.

In "Auto" mode, ALL sources have the object channels enabled, in my (and others') experience.

So, this means that when using "Movie" mode, to get movies to play in their "original" stream mode (i.e. DD 5.1 in DD 5.1, and Atmos in Atmos), I have to be sure I've got the object channels disabled for e.g. DD 5.1 (by cycling the Movie mode sound options), and then re-enabled for Atmos movies, or it just plays the TrueHD sub-stream.

Hopefully that makes sense.
I'm having this exact issue, did you ever find a way to get this fixed? Apologies to bring this back up, but I find the situation really frustrating. I have a 5.1 Bi-amped setup and no matter what I do, or how many times I correct this using the mode movie button, it always defaults back to +DSU at the next restart.
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post #15319 of 17916 Old 03-06-2018, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Welsh Rarebit View Post
I'm having this exact issue, did you ever find a way to get this fixed? Apologies to bring this back up, but I find the situation really frustrating. I have a 5.1 Bi-amped setup and no matter what I do, or how many times I correct this using the mode movie button, it always defaults back to +DSU at the next restart.
I think I just live with it.
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post #15320 of 17916 Old 03-06-2018, 09:16 AM
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I think I just live with it.
I was afraid you'd say that. In my sole 5.1 setup it really should not apply this processing. It's very irritating to re-do every time!

Thanks for the reply.
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post #15321 of 17916 Old 03-06-2018, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by locob View Post
Sorry for the bump, but does anyone have any info on the requirements for DTS Virtual:X and if there is any possibility for our avr's to get it in an update or upgrade?
DTS Virtual X is only useful if you are using a soundbar right? If you have say a 5.1.4 setup, its not a feature to be missed?

THanks
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post #15322 of 17916 Old 03-06-2018, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by apachehavok View Post
DTS Virtual X is only useful if you are using a soundbar right? If you have say a 5.1.4 setup, its not a feature to be missed?

THanks
Or if you have a 5.1 or less setup.
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post #15323 of 17916 Old 03-06-2018, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Welsh Rarebit View Post
I'm having this exact issue, did you ever find a way to get this fixed? Apologies to bring this back up, but I find the situation really frustrating. I have a 5.1 Bi-amped setup and no matter what I do, or how many times I correct this using the mode movie button, it always defaults back to +DSU at the next restart.
If you only have a 5.1 setup, doesn't matter what it says.
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post #15324 of 17916 Old 03-06-2018, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by apachehavok View Post
DTS Virtual X is only useful if you are using a soundbar right? If you have say a 5.1.4 setup, its not a feature to be missed?

THanks
Most likely not missed. Virtual X is more like a DSP. Do you miss DSP?

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post #15325 of 17916 Old 03-06-2018, 10:48 AM
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Well its offical. I can't leave ARC on when I am not usong it on my s710 because my reciever will turn pn randomally. Wish Denon could fix that.

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post #15326 of 17916 Old 03-06-2018, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
Most likely not missed. Virtual X is more like a DSP. Do you miss DSP?

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Originally Posted by apachehavok View Post
DTS Virtual X is only useful if you are using a soundbar right? If you have say a 5.1.4 setup, its not a feature to be missed?

THanks
I would be interested in trying it with my Denon 5.1 HT as I have cathedral ceiling and not able to install overhead speakers or probaby ineffective for Atmos up-firing speakers.


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post #15327 of 17916 Old 03-06-2018, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsh Rarebit View Post
I'm having this exact issue, did you ever find a way to get this fixed? Apologies to bring this back up, but I find the situation really frustrating. I have a 5.1 Bi-amped setup and no matter what I do, or how many times I correct this using the mode movie button, it always defaults back to +DSU at the next restart.
If you only have a 5.1 setup, doesn't matter what it says. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
But it really does... DSU kills the sound fidelity and sounds awful when overlayed onto a standard 5.1 setup, be that HD audio or standard DD/DTS. It's night and day when switched.

I think it's a processing bug. There is no reason for it to keep adding DSU to a 5.1 arrangement, and when it does it sounds terrible...

Last edited by Welsh Rarebit; 03-06-2018 at 11:57 PM.
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post #15328 of 17916 Old 03-07-2018, 08:16 AM
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Anyone use Kodi here with their 2015 Denon models?

I have a 5.1.4 setup and DTSX and ATMOS pass to the receiver just fine but wondering what I should set my Kodi to in its speaker options? I just has 5.1, 7.1, 9.1 etc listed...

Or if the receiver says ATMOS or DTS-X while playing a video it ignores all that and just detects what speaker are being used?

Thanks!
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post #15329 of 17916 Old 03-07-2018, 10:09 AM
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I have twice tried to update my S710W but both attempts failed (once over wifi, once over wireless).
What is the difference between wi-fi and wireless? would seem the same to me.
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post #15330 of 17916 Old 03-07-2018, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by apachehavok View Post
Anyone use Kodi here with their 2015 Denon models?

I have a 5.1.4 setup and DTSX and ATMOS pass to the receiver just fine but wondering what I should set my Kodi to in its speaker options? I just has 5.1, 7.1, 9.1 etc listed...

Or if the receiver says ATMOS or DTS-X while playing a video it ignores all that and just detects what speaker are being used?

Thanks!
The numeric settings in Kodi are for when you use Kodi to modify the audio, doing its own audio upmixing. Those settings are irrelevant since for Atmos and DTS:X to work you need Kodi to "passthrough" the audio, sending unmodified audio to the receiver.
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