The "OFFICIAL" 2015 Denon "S-series" / "X-series" AVR Owner's thread + FAQ (HDCP 2.2) - Page 579 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17341 of 17516 Old 03-20-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
One possibility that I didn't see mentioned: When Audyssey is on, Dynamic EQ (DEQ) is also on and it may be boosting lower frequencies to beyond what that modest sub is capable of. OP, have you tried leaving Audyssey on but turning DEQ off? If not, give that a try.

-- Edit --
To expand a bit:
1. Re-run Audyssey so that in the speaker set-up menu...
- the levels of the speakers are at ~0dB; and
- the level of the sub is below but to within ~6dB of the level of the speakers.

2. Set all speakers to "small" and all x-over settings to 80Hz. (Leave LPF of LFE at 120Hz.)

3. Turn DEQ (and Dynamic Volume) "off" and re-run your audio tests.
Thank you very much on your in-detail reply!
One thing I don't quite understand though; you mean that I should run Audyssey's audio calibration test again or do I make an audio test literally by listening to something?
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post #17342 of 17516 Old 03-20-2019, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Dwalker112 View Post
I don’t think the subwoofer would be the problem because as you stated before in “Direct Mode” everything works correctly. So I would imagine that whatever setting enabled on the Receiver is giving you bad boosted signals instead of clean lower frequencies.


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Thank you, I must say that I agree with you - I really doubt that something's wrong with the sub exactly because everything is fine in 'Direct Mode'... I'll try adjusting settings suggested by 'eljaycanuck'...
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post #17343 of 17516 Old 03-20-2019, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Ivan Čujko
… you mean that I should run Audyssey's audio calibration test again or do I make an audio test literally by listening to something?
If the speaker and sub levels are as I suggested, I wouldn't re-run Audyssey but I would check and/or adjust the other parameters (speakers set to "small", DEQ is "off", etc.) and then listen to the same movie clips that are currently causing you problems.

If the speaker and sub levels are grossly different from what I suggested, I would re-run Audyssey first, then check/adjust the rest, then listen to the movie clips.

Last edited by eljaycanuck; 03-20-2019 at 11:45 AM.
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post #17344 of 17516 Old 03-21-2019, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
If the speaker and sub levels are as I suggested, I wouldn't re-run Audyssey but I would check and/or adjust the other parameters (speakers set to "small", DEQ is "off", etc.) and then listen to the same movie clips that are currently causing you problems.

If the speaker and sub levels are grossly different from what I suggested, I would re-run Audyssey first, then check/adjust the rest, then listen to the movie clips.
Thanx again 4 all your suggestions!

I adjusted the settings yesterday as you suggest and I must say - it worked!
Although, I'm not completely satisfied.

First of all, I didn't manage to find out at which volume are my speakers set because when I enter the Speakers menu in the settings all that is given is 'Start Test Tone' and 'Reset defaults'. So it's not possible to see the volume of the speakers (or am I missing something?).

So I did it 'by ear'!

I found the result of my audio tests to be satisfying at sub volume set all the way down to -11db! More than I expected. I turned off the Dynamic EQ, even tried turning off the Dynamic volume but I found turning off the Dynamic volume being unnecessary...

I tried Audyssey in both settings - 'Reference' and 'L/R Bypass' and that didn't make a noticeable difference.

Reciever was turned up to -15 db (out of +18db max) and that seems to be the borderline for the sub to sound normal, without flobbing, at these applied setttings. All higher volumes result with sub sounding badly again.

My conclusion is that my brand new Yamaha sub is obviously weak and I should have purchased something 'stronger'...
What do you guys think?
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post #17345 of 17516 Old 03-21-2019, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Čujko View Post
Thanx again 4 all your suggestions!

I adjusted the settings yesterday as you suggest and I must say - it worked!
Although, I'm not completely satisfied.

First of all, I didn't manage to find out at which volume are my speakers set because when I enter the Speakers menu in the settings all that is given is 'Start Test Tone' and 'Reset defaults'. So it's not possible to see the volume of the speakers (or am I missing something?).

So I did it 'by ear'!

I found the result of my audio tests to be satisfying at sub volume set all the way down to -11db! More than I expected. I turned off the Dynamic EQ, even tried turning off the Dynamic volume but I found turning off the Dynamic volume being unnecessary...

I tried Audyssey in both settings - 'Reference' and 'L/R Bypass' and that didn't make a noticeable difference.

Reciever was turned up to -15 db (out of +18db max) and that seems to be the borderline for the sub to sound normal, without flobbing, at these applied setttings. All higher volumes result with sub sounding badly again.

My conclusion is that my brand new Yamaha sub is obviously weak and I should have purchased something 'stronger'...
What do you guys think?
Indeed. An 8", 120W sub would only be appropriate for a very small room.
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post #17346 of 17516 Old 03-21-2019, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Čujko
Thanx again 4 all your suggestions!

I adjusted the settings yesterday as you suggest and I must say - it worked!
Excellent!

Quote:
… First of all, I didn't manage to find out at which volume are my speakers set because when I enter the Speakers menu in the settings all that is given is 'Start Test Tone' and 'Reset defaults'. So it's not possible to see the volume of the speakers (or am I missing something?). …
Select Start Test Tone and you should:
- hear a test tone; and
- see a screen listing all the active speakers + sub(s) and the levels to which they have been set by Audyssey; and
- be able to adjust those levels.

I suggest you re-run Audyssey to get a fresh "starting point" and then tweak your system from there.

Quote:
… I turned off the Dynamic EQ, even tried turning off the Dynamic volume but I found turning off the Dynamic volume being unnecessary...
I agree that turning off DV was unnecessary but I figured that you might as well, for good measure, while trying to diagnose the problem with your sub.

Quote:
… I tried Audyssey in both settings - 'Reference' and 'L/R Bypass' and that didn't make a noticeable difference. …
L/R Bypass "disables" Audyssey only to your front L & R speakers. It doesn't affect Audyssey settings for the remaining speakers + sub(s).

Quote:
… Reciever was turned up to -15 db (out of +18db max) and that seems to be the borderline for the sub to sound normal, without flobbing, at these applied setttings. All higher volumes result with sub sounding badly again.

My conclusion is that my brand new Yamaha sub is obviously weak …
There's only so much a modest sub can do. That said, if the Yamaha performs well at the volumes at which you would normally run your system, keep using it. Otherwise, consider swapping it for a more-powerful / more-capable sub.

Last edited by eljaycanuck; 03-21-2019 at 07:09 AM.
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post #17347 of 17516 Old 03-21-2019, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
Excellent!


Select Start Test Tone and you should:
- hear a test tone; and
- see a screen listing all the active speakers + sub(s) and the levels to which they have been set by Audyssey; and
- be able to adjust those levels.

I suggest you re-run Audyssey to get a fresh "starting point" and then tweak your system from there.


I agree that turning off DV was unnecessary but I figured that you might as well, for good measure, while trying to diagnose the problem with your sub.


L/R Bypass "disables" Audyssey only to your front L & R speakers. It doesn't affect Audyssey settings for the remaining speakers + sub(s).


There's only so much a modest sub can do. That said, if the Yamaha performs well at the volumes at which you would normally run your system, keep using it. Otherwise, consider swapping it for a more-powerful / more-capable sub.
Thank you very much for all your help, I really appreciate it... Your tips really helped me and I'm very grateful!

I'll try to adjust speaker levels today, I'm looking forward to it as I would also like to increase a bit volume of my rear spekers...
I own a similar sub by JBL, which is being repaired so I'll try with 2 subs once it's back from a repair shop...
Maybe that will fix my overall sub experience and bring it to a higher level....

Thanks again and have a nice day!
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post #17348 of 17516 Old 03-21-2019, 08:31 AM
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I'm happy to have been helpful. Hopefully integrating the JBL into your system will help improve your current bass situation.
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post #17349 of 17516 Old 03-30-2019, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Čujko View Post
Hello!
I've decided to start this topic because I don't want to carry either my reciever or subwoofer to authorized service before I find out what's actually causing this issue....

Recently I've purchased used Denon AVR-X1200W and hooked up 2 front floorstanding speakers, 2 rear bookshelf speakers and a brand new Yamaha NS-SW200 subwoofer to it.

I've calibrated the system using Audyssey, set the reciever on LFE+Main for the beginning, and noticed that the bass on Adyssey AUTO mode is distorted, even at low volume, producing some kind of a 'flobbing' sound on low frequencies like explosions at movies etc... When I play the same scene at the same, or much higher volume on 'DIRECT' mode, the bass is ok, flobbing sound is gone, but all the good sides of Audyssey's digital processing such as dynamic volume are also gone, ofcourse...

I've tried all kinds of settings like just LFE, all speakers set to small, crossover frequency at 80 hz, but nothing helped. The subwoofer produces distorted, flobbing-like sound when AUDYSSEY is turned on.

So, I'm wondering what's causing this... Is it the LFE output on the reciever? Could the sub pre-out be in malfunction? Or is it the subwoofer?

Thank you very much in advance...

I am having the same issue with my AVR-S910W.


All of a sudden the bass at certain frequency is distorted. Sounds terrible. I thought my sub was bad.

Also, the system keeps setting my sub to -12db after Audyssey setup. It didn't do that in the past. I have set the level at half, when I calibrate, like I always do. I even tried setting it lower.

(Denon wants me to buy another receiver)

Also, sometimes when I enter the online setup page, its says "AVR-X2200" not AVR-S910W (it goes back and forth)

I've downloaded and reinstalled the firmware and re-calibrated many times, but nothing works.

I am on firmware Version 4400-6451-4035, DTS Version 3.90.50.00

Now today, I noticed that whenever I pull the power cord, the Audyssey calibration gets deleted. Is that normal?

I am going to do one more full initialization and re-calibration.

EDIT. One more, Zone 2 is not showing on the online setup web page.

Last edited by kmd1970; 03-30-2019 at 08:41 AM.
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post #17350 of 17516 Old 03-30-2019, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kmd1970 View Post
I am having the same issue with my AVR-S910W.


All of a sudden the bass at certain frequency is distorted. Sounds terrible. I thought my sub was bad.

Also, the system keeps setting my sub to -12db after Audyssey setup. It didn't do that in the past. I have set the level at half, when I calibrate, like I always do. I even tried setting it lower.

(Denon wants me to buy another receiver)

Also, sometimes when I enter the online setup page, its says "AVR-X2200" not AVR-S910W (it goes back and forth)

I've downloaded and reinstalled the firmware and re-calibrated many times, but nothing works.

I am on firmware Version 4400-6451-4035, DTS Version 3.90.50.00

Now today, I noticed that whenever I pull the power cord, the Audyssey calibration gets deleted. Is that normal?

I am going to do one more full initialization and re-calibration.

EDIT. One more, Zone 2 is not showing on the online setup web page.
No, not normal for Audyssey EQ to be deleted by simply pulling the power cord. Something is clearly messed up with your unit's firmware. Refer to post 5 and reset the microprocessor and start setup and calibration over again.
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post #17351 of 17516 Old 03-30-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
No, not normal for Audyssey EQ to be deleted by simply pulling the power cord. Something is clearly messed up with your unit's firmware. Refer to post 5 and reset the microprocessor and start setup and calibration over again.
Thanks, I will give it a try.


EDIT: Looks like that fixed the Audyssey EQ delete issue and the bass sounds much better.

THANKS Jdsmoothie!
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Last edited by kmd1970; 03-30-2019 at 06:01 PM.
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post #17352 of 17516 Old 03-31-2019, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
No, not normal for Audyssey EQ to be deleted by simply pulling the power cord. Something is clearly messed up with your unit's firmware. Refer to post 5 and reset the microprocessor and start setup and calibration over again.

WOW! That processor reset really removed all the cobwebs in my AVR-S910W, it's working perfect now.



I guess i can wait for longer eARC and HDMI 2.1. (edit)



THANKS AGAIN Jdsmoothie!
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Last edited by kmd1970; 04-01-2019 at 08:01 AM.
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post #17353 of 17516 Old 04-01-2019, 12:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kmd1970 View Post
WOW! That processor reset really removed all the cobwebs in my AVR-S910W, it's working perfect now.



I guess i can wait for longer eARC and HDMI 2.0.



THANKS AGAIN Jdsmoothie!
eARC is already available on the 2017 (X3400H and higher) and 2018 (X3500H and higher) models. Look for HDMI 2.1 models to be released in 2020.
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post #17354 of 17516 Old 04-01-2019, 08:10 AM
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eARC is already available on the 2017 (X3400H and higher) and 2018 (X3500H and higher) models. Look for HDMI 2.1 models to be released in 2020.

Sorry, I meant HDMI 2.1. I thought HDMI 2.1 was required for eARC to work?



Yes, I was looking at the X3500H or X4400H, but I might just wait until 2020, since my AVR-S910W is now working great.
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post #17355 of 17516 Old 04-01-2019, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kmd1970 View Post
Sorry, I meant HDMI 2.1. I thought HDMI 2.1 was required for eARC to work?



Yes, I was looking at the X3500H or X4400H, but I might just wait until 2020, since my AVR-S910W is now working great.
Nope.
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post #17356 of 17516 Old 04-02-2019, 12:39 PM
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I connected the Parasound HCA 2ch to my x4200 and I cannot tell a difference in sound from one amp to the other while listening to music or movies.
Could it be the Denon is acting as prepro ahead of either the Parasound amp or internal Denon amps?

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post #17357 of 17516 Old 04-02-2019, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
I connected the Parasound HCA 2ch to my x4200 and I cannot tell a difference in sound from one amp to the other while listening to music or movies.
Could it be the Denon is acting as prepro ahead of either the Parasound amp or internal Denon amps?
Many cannot which is why an external amp is really only beneficial in those cases when powering hard to drive speakers.
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post #17358 of 17516 Old 04-02-2019, 04:22 PM
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Why do you think you should hear a difference? Would have to be some crappy amp if so. Its taking what’s being sent to it and passing it along. Should sound the same and if not THEN something is wrong.
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post #17359 of 17516 Old 04-02-2019, 05:07 PM
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Why do you think you should hear a difference? Would have to be some crappy amp if so. Its taking what’s being sent to it and passing it along. Should sound the same and if not THEN something is wrong.
Well as you know there is always a debate whether you can hear a difference between amps. To my ears I can't hear a diff. I'll try in multch and see if I can tell. If not oh well at least it will take the load of the x4200.

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Well I think I know why I dont hear a difference from my parasound hca 1500a 2ch amp and x4200. The LR do not come on while connected to the x4200. I'm not sure how long it's been like this but a week ago it was working. I know this because my kids watched Spongebob in stereo with the x4200.
This explains why I don't hear the difference. All this time while watching in atmos and going back and forth between amps it disguised the LR. The high levels created a phantom.

UPDATE: solved I had to change the amp assignment to get sound from the front LR.
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Does anyone know if there is something in the x4200 2 CH setting aside from setting the speakers to Large that needs to be set to in order to get more bass from an external amp? I was doing A/B comparison in Stereo with the speakers set to Large and there is way more bass from the x4200 compared to the Parasound?
Could the Denon preouts have something to do with this?

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Originally Posted by asere View Post
Does anyone know if there is something in the x4200 2 CH setting aside from setting the speakers to Large that needs to be set to in order to get more bass from an external amp? I was doing A/B comparison in Stereo with the speakers set to Large and there is way more bass from the x4200 compared to the Parasound?
Could the Denon preouts have something to do with this?
There are numerous settings available with the "2CH Playback" mode. Refer to pp. 246-248 in the Owner's manual.
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post #17363 of 17516 Old 04-06-2019, 06:56 AM
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There are numerous settings available with the "2CH Playback" mode. Refer to pp. 246-248 in the Owner's manual.
Thanks. The issue was the polarity. One speaker wire was crossed. With the x4200 the binding posts are R,B,R,B and parasound B,R,R,B got it mixed up on the parasound. Came alive now.

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post #17364 of 17516 Old 04-07-2019, 01:33 PM
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No Optical?

I have a X4200W. I believe i tried everything, but can not make TV Audio - via optical - work.

My AVR was at rest for a few months after an AVR upgrade. Last month I decided to assemble a new 5.1 at my room, so I plugged in the 4200 again. I updated the firmware, and connected everything. All worked well for a few minutes until the AVR turned off and red power light started to blink. The same would then happen every few seconds after I turned the AVR on. I then Factory (microprocessor) Reset it. The same. I then unplugged everything. Still the same. I then sent to Technical Assistance. It stayed there for a week, but they said it was working OK there. I insisted, more two weeks, they said the same. I received it back yesterday. Plugged in, turned on and... voilá: it was working. I then Factory reset to start anew, did all the setup, Audissey, all speakers working nicely. Cable TV via the AVR was sounding great.

I then went on to watch Netflix and Amazon via the Smart TV, thus the Optical Input (TV Out to AVR TV Audio in), but the sound was intermittent. It would stop every now and then, i.e., it will take longer than normal to start (a few second and only the comes sound and DD on the AVR visor), it will play some (could be a few seconds, 1 or 2 minutes) then the AVR would seem to lose the signal from the optical, then start again... I tried to change TV Audio to Optical 2 through Input Assign, change the cable to the new input, to no avail. No sound. I tried to plug back to Optical 1, assigning it again, nothing. Using an older Denon 1912, I was just plugging to the Optical input and sound was nice. So it is not a TV or cable problem, or wrong setting on TV. I believe I can say it is really something in the 4200. I also compared both AVRs Input Assign tables (as much as their similarities and differences permit), and they are the same where it seems to matter (and again, this is a setup I've used for years previously before putting the 4200 to rest). Is there something I might have overlooked? Is it possible that the AVR has some internal problem that i causing this various problems (I had another one trying to put a bluetooh transmitter to work without analog inputs via zone 2 pre outs, but will no bother others describing)?

I'm sorry for the long explanation, but it is such a nice AVR to throw out that way... Thanks for any help.

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LG OLED 65C8PSA / Marantz SR6013 / B&W CM1 S2 + CM Center S2 Front + Jamo J10 sub + NHT SuperZeros 2.1 Back
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post #17365 of 17516 Old 04-07-2019, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a X4200W. I believe i tried everything, but can not make TV Audio - via optical - work.

My AVR was at rest for a few months after an AVR upgrade. Last month I decided to assemble a new 5.1 at my room, so I plugged in the 4200 again. I updated the firmware, and connected everything. All worked well for a few minutes until the AVR turned off and red power light started to blink. The same would then happen every few seconds after I turned the AVR on. I then Factory (microprocessor) Reset it. The same. I then unplugged everything. Still the same. I then sent to Technical Assistance. It stayed there for a week, but they said it was working OK there. I insisted, more two weeks, they said the same. I received it back yesterday. Plugged in, turned on and... voilá: it was working. I then Factory reset to start anew, did all the setup, Audissey, all speakers working nicely. Cable TV via the AVR was sounding great.

I then went on to watch Netflix and Amazon via the Smart TV, thus the Optical Input (TV Out to AVR TV Audio in), but the sound was intermittent. It would stop every now and then, i.e., it will take longer than normal to start (a few second and only the comes sound and DD on the AVR visor), it will play some (could be a few seconds, 1 or 2 minutes) then the AVR would seem to lose the signal from the optical, then start again... I tried to change TV Audio to Optical 2 through Input Assign, change the cable to the new input, to no avail. No sound. I tried to plug back to Optical 1, assigning it again, nothing. Using an older Denon 1912, I was just plugging to the Optical input and sound was nice. So it is not a TV or cable problem, or wrong setting on TV. I believe I can say it is really something in the 4200. I also compared both AVRs Input Assign tables (as much as their similarities and differences permit), and they are the same where it seems to matter (and again, this is a setup I've used for years previously before putting the 4200 to rest). Is there something I might have overlooked? Is it possible that the AVR has some internal problem that i causing this various problems (I had another one trying to put a bluetooh transmitter to work without analog inputs via zone 2 pre outs, but will no bother others describing)?

I'm sorry for the long explanation, but it is such a nice AVR to throw out that way... Thanks for any help.
Apparently so.
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post #17366 of 17516 Old 04-07-2019, 06:20 PM
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Apparently so.
Thank you as always, but that's sad... I guess I'll try to circumvent its problems to keep it a little longer, it's a really good mid range. Maybe an optical to caoxial convert will do it for the time being. Let's see.

Samsung UN78HU9000GXZD / Marantz SR8012 / B&W 705 S2 + HTM71 S2 Front + B&W DB4S sub + Polk Audio Monitor 30 Back
LG OLED 65C8PSA / Marantz SR6013 / B&W CM1 S2 + CM Center S2 Front + Jamo J10 sub + NHT SuperZeros 2.1 Back
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post #17367 of 17516 Old 04-07-2019, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mbernstein View Post
Thank you as always, but that's sad... I guess I'll try to circumvent its problems to keep it a little longer, it's a really good mid range. Maybe an optical to caoxial convert will do it for the time being. Let's see.
No ARC over HDMI?

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post #17368 of 17516 Old 04-07-2019, 06:41 PM
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No ARC over HDMI?
I've never had a good experience with ARC. I've been trying it along the years, but always end using optical which ends up being more simple with an Universal remote and less prone to issues. In this case, I tried again, but messed everything even more. Probably my fault, but I'm the only irreplaceable item in this chain... But thank you for your suggestion.

Samsung UN78HU9000GXZD / Marantz SR8012 / B&W 705 S2 + HTM71 S2 Front + B&W DB4S sub + Polk Audio Monitor 30 Back
LG OLED 65C8PSA / Marantz SR6013 / B&W CM1 S2 + CM Center S2 Front + Jamo J10 sub + NHT SuperZeros 2.1 Back
LG OLED 55EA9850 / Yamaha Soundbar YSP 2700
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post #17369 of 17516 Old 04-13-2019, 10:28 AM
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Has anyone had an issue where you get the wrong audio codec? Play Aquaman UHD via 203 and S910W and can only get DTS-MA/ DTS-X Neural without an option for Atmos.

Edit: Disc defaults to DTS-Master Audio instead of Atmos. Annoying!

Last edited by tommyknocker2121; 04-13-2019 at 01:59 PM.
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post #17370 of 17516 Old 04-13-2019, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tommyknocker2121 View Post
Has anyone had an issue where you get the wrong audio codec? Play Aquaman UHD via 203 and S910W and can only get DTS-MA/ DTS-X Neural without an option for Atmos.

Edit: Disc defaults to DTS-Master Audio instead of Atmos. Annoying!
Are you playing a rental or purchased disc? If the latter, did you perhaps select the BD instead of the UHD disc? If you selected the UHD disc, did you select the Atmos audio track as it is not always the default? Also the disc would feature Dolby TrueHD not DTS-MA.
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