*Official* Marantz 2015 NR-1506/1606, SR-5010/6010/7010 & AV7702mkII owner's thread - Page 146 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4351 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
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Here's the rub, with Denon and Marantz processors that can handle DTS: X as well, you want to have your overheads set to the Front/Rear Height designations or the overhead rendering gets messed up. Then place your speakers in the ideal Dolby Atmos Top Front and Top Rear positions on the ceiling, if possible, for the best effect. It seems as if Dolby Atmos doesn't have a rendering issue setting things up this way. DTS: X recommended angles for Heights can overlap Dolby Atmos Tops.

Onkyo, Pioneer, Yamaha owners can speak from more experience.
I just wanted to confirm I'm understanding this right. I'll be getting the SR7010, and will have 4 Dolby Surround/Rear, and 4 Atmos TF/TR, mounted fairly close to recommended positions and angles.

You're saying that I should configure the SR7010 as Front and Rear Height, rather than Top Front and Top Rear?

Seems counter-intuitive, but again, I think you're saying that for Dolby Atmos signals, it will be handled just fine, while the DTS:X signals will be handled better this way?

And while I've got your attention, do you think the power output of the SR7010 will be sufficient to drive the 4 Dolby (86dB sensitivity) and 4 Atmos (90db Sensitivity) adequately? (L/C/R will be pre-out to other amps). Fairly large room, details in this thread.

I originally planned to get the 7702MkII, and get separate amp(s) for the 8 Dolby/Atmos speakers, but then thought I could save some money, get the 7010, and use the savings for better subs.

Thanks!
If you have a pretty large room, I would go with the 7702 mkii (check out AV Science) and use better amps. These modern receivers are under powered for what you seem to be wanting to accomplish... especially of you plan on playing at close to reference levels.

I'm not the only one who noticed DTS X works better on D+M products using the Heights designation. This was reported by Filmmixer (Marc) when he was doing listening tests on his own gear.

This may be an error that will have to be addressed in a firmware update.
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post #4352 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 10:46 AM
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If you select the current source on the app, doing so should bring up a list of all the available sources to include "Favorites."


Do you mean if I am currently listening to Internet radio, and then tap Internet radio source, there should be a source called favourites? I'd post an image, but I've only been lurking here for tips, so I don't have a high enough post count...

I have a few internet stations favorited, but they don't appear there (nor does favourites)

Thanks...
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post #4353 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 11:08 AM
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So, physically place the speakers in the "Top" locations as recommended by Dolby but DTS can use them as "Presence" speakers for best of both worlds? Just confirming.

Also, my room has vaulted slopes on all 4 sides that come down at a 45 degree angle from the ceiling to the walls. Can I place the 4 speakers on the front and rear slopes or is it better on the flat part of the ceiling?

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Here's the rub, with Denon and Marantz processors that can handle DTS: X as well, you want to have your overheads set to the Front/Rear Height designations or the overhead rendering gets messed up. Then place your speakers in the ideal Dolby Atmos Top Front and Top Rear positions on the ceiling, if possible, for the best effect. It seems as if Dolby Atmos doesn't have a rendering issue setting things up this way. DTS: X recommended angles for Heights can overlap Dolby Atmos Tops.

Onkyo, Pioneer, Yamaha owners can speak from more experience.
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post #4354 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 11:38 AM
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So, physically place the speakers in the "Top" locations as recommended by Dolby but DTS can use them as "Presence" speakers for best of both worlds? Just confirming.

Also, my room has vaulted slopes on all 4 sides that come down at a 45 degree angle from the ceiling to the walls. Can I place the 4 speakers on the front and rear slopes or is it better on the flat part of the ceiling?
If your room can handle them, Top locations it is, just set the unit to Heights. Depending on where the slopes hit in terms of angles to the MLP, you may want to go with bracketed on-ceiling speakers and use the adjustable brackets to better aim the speakers, so they fire towards the MLP.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #4355 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
I just wanted to confirm I'm understanding this right. I'll be getting the SR7010, and will have 4 Dolby Surround/Rear, and 4 Atmos TF/TR, mounted fairly close to recommended positions and angles.

You're saying that I should configure the SR7010 as Front and Rear Height, rather than Top Front and Top Rear?

Seems counter-intuitive, but again, I think you're saying that for Dolby Atmos signals, it will be handled just fine, while the DTS:X signals will be handled better this way?

And while I've got your attention, do you think the power output of the SR7010 will be sufficient to drive the 4 Dolby (86dB sensitivity) and 4 Atmos (90db Sensitivity) adequately? (L/C/R will be pre-out to other amps). Fairly large room, details in this thread.

I originally planned to get the 7702MkII, and get separate amp(s) for the 8 Dolby/Atmos speakers, but then thought I could save some money, get the 7010, and use the savings for better subs.

Thanks!
If you use bass management the 7010 should be plenty
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post #4356 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by delray01 View Post
Do you mean if I am currently listening to Internet radio, and then tap Internet radio source, there should be a source called favourites? I'd post an image, but I've only been lurking here for tips, so I don't have a high enough post count...

I have a few internet stations favorited, but they don't appear there (nor does favourites)

Thanks...
I mean that when the AVR is first powered on with the app, the SOURCE button will change to whatever the last source was playing prior to the AVR being set to Standby. Press that source (eg. CBL/SAT) and a list of the available sources should display to include "FAVORITES."
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post #4357 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
This is an interesting statement.

Right now I am running the SR6010 in the 7.2.2 config with an external amp for the L,C,R.

The rear surrounds are actually "corner" speakers (literally at the place where the rear and side walls, and ceiling, come together). I designated those rear surround but perhaps should consider them top rear... giving me a 5.2.4 setup, in stead. (My top middle speakers are about 18 inches forward of my seating area, so I would probably still call those top middle.)
Try configuring the current Top Middle --> Top Front and the current Surround Back speakers ---> Rear Height speakers and see if you enjoy that better.
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post #4358 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 02:18 PM
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If you use bass management the 7010 should be plenty
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If you have a pretty large room, I would go with the 7702 mkii (check out AV Science) and use better amps. These modern receivers are under powered for what you seem to be wanting to accomplish... especially of you plan on playing at close to reference levels.
Ok, that's one vote for the 7010 being fine for my purposes; one vote for maybe not.

Should I let you two fight it out, and come to an agreement??

Anybody else care to weigh in?

In other threads where I've brought this up, the most common opinion (which obviously could be wrong, which is why I'm seeking wider thoughts) is that the 7010, using its 8 of its 9 internal amps only for my 4 Dolby (86db Sens.) and 4 Atmos (90dB Sens.) speakers, with L/C/R and sub(s) being powered externally, would be more than adequate.

This is a pretty big issue, because it was the switch to the 7010 that freed up $1200 for use elsewhere in the project, with the sub(s) being the most likely beneficiary.

(Here's a link to specs on the room, but briefly it's a 20' x 32' room, with 8' walls, and a 12' cathedral ceiling running down the middle of the length of the room; approximately 6400 cubic feet. I am a novice at all of this, so don't know what it would mean for me to run at 'reference' levels. I want it loud enough to be immersive and compelling, but don't need my ears to bleed!)

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post #4359 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 02:35 PM
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Ok, that's one vote for the 7010 being fine for my purposes; one vote for maybe not.

Should I let you two fight it out, and come to an agreement??

Anybody else care to weigh in?

In other threads where I've brought this up, the most common opinion (which obviously could be wrong, which is why I'm seeking wider thoughts) is that the 7010, using its 8 of its 9 internal amps only for my 4 Dolby (86db Sens.) and 4 Atmos (90dB Sens.) speakers, with L/C/R and sub(s) being powered externally, would be more than adequate.

This is a pretty big issue, because it was the switch to the 7010 that freed up $1200 for use elsewhere in the project, with the sub(s) being the most likely beneficiary.

(Here's a link to specs on the room, but briefly it's a 20' x 32' room, with 8' walls, and a 12' cathedral ceiling running down the middle of the length of the room; approximately 6400 cubic feet. I am a novice at all of this, so don't know what it would mean for me to run at 'reference' levels. I want it loud enough to be immersive and compelling, but don't need my ears to bleed!)
If it helps , I'm trying to sell my Mkii to go to a 7010. If it were the 8802 then I'd probably hang on to the pre pro just for the fact , either way you should get at least a nice two channel amp to drive the mains off the 7010 , I would use the 7010 strictly for surround channels with bass management , it would be more than enough
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post #4360 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 02:45 PM
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If it helps , I'm trying to sell my Mkii to go to a 7010. If it were the 8802 then I'd probably hang on to the pre pro just for the fact , either way you should get at least a nice two channel amp to drive the mains off the 7010 , I would use the 7010 strictly for surround channels with bass management , it would be more than enough
Thanks.

I have a pair of Adcom GFA-555, which power the L/R (Duntech Sovereigns), providing 600 Watts to each. So I'm covered there. Center is JBL LSR308, also powered. So all I need is power for the 8 surround/Atmos speakers.

And I guess, even if there is a 'slight' advantage to going with the 7702MkII and Outlaw Audio 5000's, there would likely be greater overall impact which dwarfs this, by putting the $1200 into sub(s). But if the difference is substantial, rather than slight, that is a different state of affairs. Hence posing the question here.

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post #4361 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
Thanks.

I have a pair of Adcom GFA-555, which power the L/R (Duntech Sovereigns), providing 600 Watts to each. So I'm covered there. Center is JBL LSR308, also powered. So all I need is power for the 8 surround/Atmos speakers.

And I guess, even if there is a 'slight' advantage to going with the 7702MkII and Outlaw Audio 5000's, there would likely be greater overall impact which dwarfs this, by putting the $1200 into sub(s). But if the difference is substantial, rather than slight, that is a different state of affairs. Hence posing the question here.
Well the outlaws don't have xlr hookups so imo it would be the same as using the 7010 . I'm still up in the air myself about which one is better , but they share the same Dac and probably the same preamp section , nobody has confirmed the preamp section part .
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post #4362 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 03:45 PM
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Thanks.

I have a pair of Adcom GFA-555, which power the L/R (Duntech Sovereigns), providing 600 Watts to each. So I'm covered there. Center is JBL LSR308, also powered. So all I need is power for the 8 surround/Atmos speakers.

And I guess, even if there is a 'slight' advantage to going with the 7702MkII and Outlaw Audio 5000's, there would likely be greater overall impact which dwarfs this, by putting the $1200 into sub(s). But if the difference is substantial, rather than slight, that is a different state of affairs. Hence posing the question here.
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Well the outlaws don't have xlr hookups so imo it would be the same as using the 7010 . I'm still up in the air myself about which one is better , but they share the same Dac and probably the same preamp section , nobody has confirmed the preamp section part .
People can claim one is better than the other. And maybe they can genuinely hear a difference. I debated both before settling on the 7702mk2. I personally think it's more a question of what your goal is. The 7010 is great for a "budget" solution, being that it will cost less than a 7702mk2 plus 11-12 channels of amps. Plus having the majority of the amps onboard really simplifies setup, power, space, etc.

However, I'm thrilled I chose the prepro version for a number of reason. 1) I can use amps of my choosing and control exactly how much power is available per channel. 2) I don't have to worry about running the AVR amp section and power supply too hard. And my external amps can handle speakers of essentially any sensitivity and impedance. 3) I can use outboard REQ (Dirac Live) instead of Audyssey or YPAO or AccuEQ if I want. 4) I can choose between both AVR or Prepro models from now on since I have all my own amplification. 5) With your own REQ and amps, you are agnostic to any make/model. Prepro or AVR is basically just a source selector, decoder, and master volume. Purchasing decisions are much more open. 6) System is more flexible, configurable, and customizable with things being off-board. 7) Whether it's true or audible or not, many say the prepro models have better sound quality than AVR versions. 8) Big debates of do XLR vs RCA sound better and do outboard amps sound better than internal? Who really cares, but maybe it's a benefit. 9) And lastly, it just looks a lot cooler!!
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post #4363 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 04:08 PM
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People can claim one is better than the other. And maybe they can genuinely hear a difference. I debated both before settling on the 7702mk2. I personally think it's more a question of what your goal is. The 7010 is great for a "budget" solution, being that it will cost less than a 7702mk2 plus 11-12 channels of amps. Plus having the majority of the amps onboard really simplifies setup, power, space, etc.

However, I'm thrilled I chose the prepro version for a number of reason. 1) I can use amps of my choosing and control exactly how much power is available per channel. 2) I don't have to worry about running the AVR amp section and power supply too hard. And my external amps can handle speakers of essentially any sensitivity and impedance. 3) I can use outboard REQ (Dirac Live) instead of Audyssey or YPAO or AccuEQ if I want. 4) I can choose between both AVR or Prepro models from now on since I have all my own amplification. 5) With your own REQ and amps, you are agnostic to any make/model. Prepro or AVR is basically just a source selector, decoder, and master volume. Purchasing decisions are much more open. 6) System is more flexible, configurable, and customizable with things being off-board. 7) Whether it's true or audible or not, many say the prepro models have better sound quality than AVR versions. 8) Big debates of do XLR vs RCA sound better and do outboard amps sound better than internal? Who really cares, but maybe it's a benefit. 9) And lastly, it just looks a lot cooler!!
Yes, I can see how those benefits can be worthwhile in many situations. In fact, that was why I was going with the 7702MkII to begin with.

But for my particular situation, once I learned that for all practical purposes, the 7010 will provide the same basic features as the 7702, but have some available amps to boot, I started reconsidering that strategy. Since I already have external amps for the L/C/R plus subs, to do the heavy lifting, I'm hoping that the SR7010 will be up to the task of powering my surrounds and Atmos. So I guess I'm in a kind of 'in-between' position, where I won't be relying on the SR7010 to power the whole system.

If there is a baseline audio improvement with the 7702, I'm doubtful that I have the 'ear' to detect it, so I'm not too concerned about that. And since the budget is never unlimited, I'm thinking that the trade-off of putting that $1200 savings into subs, rather than externals amps for the surround/Atmos speakers, will work out better for my particular situation, and have greater overall impact on the home theater experience.

If funds and space were less limited, though, I might go the other way.

Thanks for the post.

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post #4364 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 04:11 PM
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Well the outlaws don't have xlr hookups so imo it would be the same as using the 7010 . I'm still up in the air myself about which one is better , but they share the same Dac and probably the same preamp section , nobody has confirmed the preamp section part .
Yeah, no XLR on the Outlaws - I've taken note of that before. But for the most part, it seems that the main known advantage of XLR would be if fairly long cable runs are needed (not the case for me). Other advantages appear possible, but how real, or common in practice, they are, is unclear. So for me anyway, having or not having XLR is not going to be a primary consideration in my choices.

YMMV!

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post #4365 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 04:22 PM
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Yeah, no XLR on the Outlaws - I've taken note of that before. But for the most part, it seems that the main known advantage of XLR would be if fairly long cable runs are needed (not the case for me). Other advantages appear possible, but how real, or common in practice, they are, is unclear. So for me anyway, having or not having XLR is not going to be a primary consideration in my choices.

YMMV!
The preamp section in the Mkii is better and xlr does make a difference , at least it has in my system .
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post #4366 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by nesto719 View Post
Well the outlaws don't have xlr hookups so imo it would be the same as using the 7010 . I'm still up in the air myself about which one is better , but they share the same Dac and probably the same preamp section , nobody has confirmed the preamp section part .
Yeah, no XLR on the Outlaws - I've taken note of that before. But for the most part, it seems that the main known advantage of XLR would be if fairly long cable runs are needed (not the case for me). Other advantages appear possible, but how real, or common in practice, they are, is unclear. So for me anyway, having or not having XLR is not going to be a primary consideration in my choices.

YMMV!
The description of your room dimensions screams a pre-amp with separate, robust power amps as well as decently high quality overhead speakers to fill the room with clean, effortless, distortion free sound. A pre-amp will run cooler too.

This is no average living room situation where a basic receiver would be adaquate.

My two cents.
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post #4367 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 06:17 PM
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The description of your room dimensions screams a pre-amp with separate, robust power amps as well as decently high quality overhead speakers to fill the room with clean, effortless, distortion free sound. A pre-amp will run cooler too.

This is no average living room situation where a basic receiver would be adaquate.

My two cents.
I appreciate the input, and definitely understand where you're coming from. And you may well be right!

It's just hard to know where to stop - there's always something that would be better, and things can easily get out of control! I started out thinking about a Vivitek 1186 Projector, but once I learned a bit more about a wide variety of things, decided to increase the budget substantially and go with the JVC DLA-RS400. I'm reasonably comfortable that the overall benefits, in terms of picture quality, relative future-proofing, motorized lens zoom/shift/memory, etc. will make that money well spent.

In general I'm more of a visual person, and don't know that I've got a particularly good ear. So while I do understand where you're coming from, the unanswerable question is whether or not I'd be just as happy with the audio experience with the SR7010 to power the Dolby Surrounds (older Wharfedale Diamond II's I already own) and Atmos (Polk OWM5's) speakers, vs the 7702MkII and Outlaw Audios, with better speakers for Surround and Atmos.

I'm less 'obsessive' and demanding about this kind of stuff than I used to be, and just look forward to a good home theater environment, with pretty good, even if not the 'best' sound and video. And if I put that extra money into good subs, it would be hard to imagine that I'd be dissatisfied.

Things can always be upgraded down the road, if need be, so there's always that pathway...

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post #4368 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 06:59 PM
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I appreciate the input, and definitely understand where you're coming from. And you may well be right!

It's just hard to know where to stop - there's always something that would be better, and things can easily get out of control! I started out thinking about a Vivitek 1186 Projector, but once I learned a bit more about a wide variety of things, decided to increase the budget substantially and go with the JVC DLA-RS400. I'm reasonably comfortable that the overall benefits, in terms of picture quality, relative future-proofing, motorized lens zoom/shift/memory, etc. will make that money well spent.

In general I'm more of a visual person, and don't know that I've got a particularly good ear. So while I do understand where you're coming from, the unanswerable question is whether or not I'd be just as happy with the audio experience with the SR7010 to power the Dolby Surrounds (older Wharfedale Diamond II's I already own) and Atmos (Polk OWM5's) speakers, vs the 7702MkII and Outlaw Audios, with better speakers for Surround and Atmos.

I'm less 'obsessive' and demanding about this kind of stuff than I used to be, and just look forward to a good home theater environment, with pretty good, even if not the 'best' sound and video. And if I put that extra money into good subs, it would be hard to imagine that I'd be dissatisfied.

Things can always be upgraded down the road, if need be, so there's always that pathway...
Those Polks are definitely a weak link in the chain. That's a huge room to use those in.

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post #4369 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 07:22 PM
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Those Polks are definitely a weak link in the chain. That's a huge room to use those in.
Well, let's at least follow this road to the end. Any suggestions on what you would consider more appropriate for the job, without obliterating my budget?

Your thoughts on the Wharfedale Diamond II's?

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post #4370 of 12395 Old 04-18-2016, 08:49 PM
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Well, let's at least follow this road to the end. Any suggestions on what you would consider more appropriate for the job, without obliterating my budget?

Your thoughts on the Wharfedale Diamond II's?
What's your overall budget, if you don't mind me asking?

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post #4371 of 12395 Old 04-19-2016, 04:50 AM
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What's your overall budget, if you don't mind me asking?
The whole project includes Projector and Mount, Screen, Wires and running them through walls, Pre/Pro or Receiver, the 4 Atmos Speakers, Speaker Mounts for all 8 surround/Atmos speakers (I'm moving the location of current Wharfedale's where are in the upper corners), possible Amps if I go with Pre/Pro.

It started out at $5,000 or so and is now pushing $9,000 with the move from the Vivitek to the JVC projector, which in turn will require the 7702MkII or 7010 instead of the original 7702MkI, accounting for the bulk of that. Replacing a large cabinet with a couple of smaller/lower ones, to allow a larger 2.35:1 screen added a chunk too.

I would like to keep it under $10,000, realizing that this is already double where I started out. Current costs are at $8800 if I went with the 7010, $1200 for subs, and going with the Wharfedale's which I own, and the Polk OWM5's. If I move back to the 7702MkII and Outlaw Amps, that's $1200 for sub(s) that would have to be added back in, before considering Atmos or surround speaker options.

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Center: Revel C208 powered by Cambridge Audio Azur 851W
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post #4372 of 12395 Old 04-19-2016, 08:46 AM
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The whole project includes Projector and Mount, Screen, Wires and running them through walls, Pre/Pro or Receiver, the 4 Atmos Speakers, Speaker Mounts for all 8 surround/Atmos speakers (I'm moving the location of current Wharfedale's where are in the upper corners), possible Amps if I go with Pre/Pro.

It started out at $5,000 or so and is now pushing $9,000 with the move from the Vivitek to the JVC projector, which in turn will require the 7702MkII or 7010 instead of the original 7702MkI, accounting for the bulk of that. Replacing a large cabinet with a couple of smaller/lower ones, to allow a larger 2.35:1 screen added a chunk too.

I would like to keep it under $10,000, realizing that this is already double where I started out. Current costs are at $8800 if I went with the 7010, $1200 for subs, and going with the Wharfedale's which I own, and the Polk OWM5's. If I move back to the 7702MkII and Outlaw Amps, that's $1200 for sub(s) that would have to be added back in, before considering Atmos or surround speaker options.
Just so I'm up to speed, what do you currently have equipment wise and plan to use in this new build?

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post #4373 of 12395 Old 04-19-2016, 08:57 AM
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Just so I'm up to speed, what do you currently have equipment wise and plan to use in this new build?
This link shows most of the details.

But the quick answer is:

Front L/R:
Duntech Sovereigns

Amps for Front L/R:
(2) Adcom GFA-555 amps, each bridged for 600 Watts to each of the Duntech's.

(These were purchased 25 years ago, when we built this room as an add-on to our home.)

Center:
JBL LSR308, self-powered, studio monitor, recently purchased.

New project builds on and adds to this, as outlined in my prior post.

Thanks.

JVC NX7, DCR Lens, Marantz SR7010, Screen Innovations 160" 2.35:1 Screen
Front L/R: Duntech Sovereigns, powered by 2 bridged Adcom GFA-555
Center: Revel C208 powered by Cambridge Audio Azur 851W
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post #4374 of 12395 Old 04-19-2016, 09:39 AM
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Amps for Front L/R:
(2) Adcom GFA-555 amps, each bridged for 600 Watts to each of the Duntech's.

(These were purchased 25 years ago, when we built this room as an add-on to our home.)
Adcom 555s bridged to mono? Well, you ought to have no shortage of power for the primary front channels.

If you could connect these via XLR and get external amps for the rest of the channels, then the 7702 would potentially offer a greater advantage, but if your main channels are going to be using RCA connections anyway, the sound quality differences between the 7010 and the 7702 would be less significant. In such a case, I'd likely try the 7010 plus a second or better subwoofer rather than a 7702 plus external amps for the surround channels.

I have a ~25 year old GFA-555Mk2, which is the longest-lasting, still-working-perfectly piece of electronic gear that I've ever owned. If I ever get the chance, I'll happily buy Nelson Pass a drink-- or the full bottle, if he's willing to keep going.
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post #4375 of 12395 Old 04-19-2016, 09:48 AM
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This link shows most of the details.

But the quick answer is:

Front L/R:
Duntech Sovereigns

Amps for Front L/R:
(2) Adcom GFA-555 amps, each bridged for 600 Watts to each of the Duntech's.

(These were purchased 25 years ago, when we built this room as an add-on to our home.)

Center:
JBL LSR308, self-powered, studio monitor, recently purchased.

New project builds on and adds to this, as outlined in my prior post.

Thanks.
I'm going to be very blunt in my reply, so don't take it the wrong way.

What I see you needing to re-invest in is your front sound stage before you do anything else... you have a totally sonically and dynamically mismatched Left/Center/Right array. It's not even close and I'm not sure why you were recommended that powered monitor in the first place. How long ago did you purchase said JBL LSR308 and is it still in the return window or can you sell it? You need a center channel and power amp that can keep up with those huge Duntech's as that's probably the most important speaker in a home theater since the center still carries the weight of the majority of the dialog, music, and sound effects.

I would take a look at the Triad Gold In-Room center speaker if you are not going to do an acoustically transparent screen, or the LCR version if you are. AV Science is a dealer. Absolutely worth checking out the current price as it is a sonically beautiful speaker that can take a pounding. Triads are phenomenal U.S. speakers and their prices are relatively reasonable for what you get. The Golds are rated to handle 100-400 watts of power.



Don't jump on a suped-up projector right now as there are alternatives coming this year and early next that will probably have the locked down 4k HDR specifications being created by the UHD Alliance, BDA, and HDMI Org.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!

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post #4376 of 12395 Old 04-19-2016, 10:08 AM
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I'm going to be very blunt in my reply, so don't take it the wrong way.

What I see you needing to re-invest in is your front sound stage before you do anything else... you have have a totally sonically and dynamically mismatched Left/Center/Right array. It's not even close and I'm not sure why you were recommended that powered monitor in the first place. How long ago did you purchase said JBL LSR308 and is it still in the return window or can you sell it? You need a center channel and power amp that can keep up with those huge Duntech's as that's probably the most important speaker in a home theater since the center still carries the weight of the majority of the dialog, music, and sound effects.

I would take a look at the Triad Gold In-Room center speaker if you are not going to do an acoustically transparent screen, or the LCR version if you are. AV Science is a dealer. Absolutely worth checking out the current price as it is a sonically beautiful speaker that can take a pounding. Triads are phenomenal U.S. speakers.

Don't jump on a suped-up projector right now as there are alternatives coming this year and early next that will probably have the locked down 4k HDR specifications being created by the UHD Alliance, BDA, and HDMI Org.
I appreciate the response, and don't mind blunt!

I bought the JBL a few months ago - out of the return window - as part of a failed experiment. I had bought a 65" Vizio TV for this room, and tried to adapt what I had to Dolby Surround. I bought a Dolby Decoder, so I could direct the correct output to the correct places. What was missing was a center channel. With no available amp, I needed one that was powered.

So in pretty much complete ignorance and naivite, I went with the JBL, as it seemed to be a respected speaker in its own right, and had the requisite power. I had no idea about timbre matching, or anything. But the experiment overall failed - I had cumbersome control of relative volume, speakers were in the wrong places, and I ended up returning the decoder.

I then started think about using a Projector, and long story short, here I am! The JBL is essentially new, and virtually unused, so I could sell it. This issue has been brought up before, but nobody has had any suggestions on a suitable match for the Duntech's for a center.

I hesitate to ask, but what is the price of the Triad center you refer to? I assume it would need separate amplification.

As for waiting for next year's projectors, I understand what you're saying, but not sure how I feel about it. If I go with a lesser projector now, then I'm almost guaranteed to be selling it, and having some loss right there. So I've got mixed feelings about this strategy, although I do understand where you're coming from.

JVC NX7, DCR Lens, Marantz SR7010, Screen Innovations 160" 2.35:1 Screen
Front L/R: Duntech Sovereigns, powered by 2 bridged Adcom GFA-555
Center: Revel C208 powered by Cambridge Audio Azur 851W
Dolby Bed (4): Sony Core SS-CS5, Atmos (4): Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE
Subwoofer: DIY 8' sub with 4 18" SI Drivers, powered by iNuke 6000
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post #4377 of 12395 Old 04-19-2016, 10:28 AM
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I appreciate the response, and don't mind blunt!

I bought the JBL a few months ago - out of the return window - as part of a failed experiment. I had bought a 65" Vizio TV for this room, and tried to adapt what I had to Dolby Surround. I bought a Dolby Decoder, so I could direct the correct output to the correct places. What was missing was a center channel. With no available amp, I needed one that was powered.

So in pretty much complete ignorance and naivite, I went with the JBL, as it seemed to be a respected speaker in its own right, and had the requisite power. I had no idea about timbre matching, or anything. But the experiment overall failed - I had cumbersome control of relative volume, speakers were in the wrong places, and I ended up returning the decoder.

I then started think about using a Projector, and long story short, here I am! The JBL is essentially new, and virtually unused, so I could sell it. This issue has been brought up before, but nobody has had any suggestions on a suitable match for the Duntech's for a center.

I hesitate to ask, but what is the price of the Triad center you refer to? I assume it would need separate amplification.

As for waiting for next year's projectors, I understand what you're saying, but not sure how I feel about it. If I go with a lesser projector now, then I'm almost guaranteed to be selling it, and having some loss right there. So I've got mixed feelings about this strategy, although I do understand where you're coming from.
Take a look at my edited post above for the pretty pictures. I believe the Triad Gold In-Room is retailing for between $2,300 and $2,500 currently in a variety of veneers and colors (they can even do custom jobs as these are made to order speakers), but AV Science usually has very competitive pricing (that's where I got my 7702 mkII). Yes, they are passive, but absolutely worth it. Dolby and DTS even have used Triads for immersive surround demos, which I've heard at trade shows. Jaw dropping. Triad's Atmos demo at the last CEDIA easily bested IMHO RBH's $40,000 a pair monstrosities. I'd check out their Silver and Gold line for your surrounds as well. Their in-wall's/in-ceiling's are sonically identical to their in-room models and use built-in backer boxes, but you can use in-room's for surrounds as well. Just remember that monopoles are recommended for immersive surround.

Frankly, I wouldn't get more than a $1,500 1080p projector for the time being while the 4k specs are finalized by projector manufacturers, and you might even find a few half-way decent tide me overs in the sub $1,000 range. Like from BenQ and Optoma. It'll save you some heartache. I've heard a number of incompatibility stories with JVC 4k projectors, which aren't really full UHD panels in the first place (they're wobulated). These 4k units are not ready for prime time. There just isn't enough competition in the field yet.

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post #4378 of 12395 Old 04-19-2016, 11:57 AM
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Take a look at my edited post above for the pretty pictures. I believe the Triad Gold In-Room is retailing for between $2,300 and $2,500 currently in a variety of veneers and colors (they can even do custom jobs as these are made to order speakers), but AV Science usually has very competitive pricing (that's where I got my 7702 mkII). Yes, they are passive, but absolutely worth it. Dolby and DTS even have used Triads for immersive surround demos, which I've heard at trade shows. Jaw dropping. Triad's Atmos demo at the last CEDIA easily bested IMHO RBH's $40,000 a pair monstrosities. I'd check out their Silver and Gold line for your surrounds as well. Their in-wall's/in-ceiling's are sonically identical to their in-room models and use built-in backer boxes, but you can use in-room's for surrounds as well. Just remember that monopoles are recommended for immersive surround.

Frankly, I wouldn't get more than a $1,500 1080p projector for the time being while the 4k specs are finalized by projector manufacturers, and you might even find a few half-way decent tide me overs in the sub $1,000 range. Like from BenQ and Optoma. It'll save you some heartache. I've heard a number of incompatibility stories with JVC 4k projectors, which aren't really full UHD panels in the first place (they're wobulated). These 4k units are not ready for prime time. There just isn't enough competition in the field yet.
I appreciate the input and info, Dan.

Frustrating; it seems like I go 1 step forward, then 2 steps backward, in planning this out. Will look further into the Triads, but not sure I want to bust the budget completely at this point by going in that direction. Always an upgrade option should the JBL prove unsatisfactory.

Regarding projectors, I've been closely monitoring the 4k compatibility issues and problems. The main issue has been with the Samsung UHD Player, which has been through 2 recent firmware updates. And there is the HDMI cable situation, where getting long runs (25 to 50 feet and up) is challenging, inconsistent, and sometimes expensive. I understand the JVC is "faux" 4K, but as I said in another thread, "Faux 4K is better than No 4K."

So it may take another 6-12 months to work out some of these issues, but it seems from what I've been reading that a good result with any of the current JVC eShift projectors should be achievable. And the speculation is that it may be until 2017 or later before JVC has true 4K out.

So while there may be some early adopter frustration, I'm not yet convinced that it is premature to go with the current JVC projectors. It will still provide superior results with 1080p input, and be able to provide close to true 4K quality when there is more availability and stability in the 4K sources and cabling.

Still not sure which way I want to go with all of this, but I appreciate your input. The more I know the more informed a decision I can make. But I also have to keep in mind the "paralysis by analysis" possibility!

JVC NX7, DCR Lens, Marantz SR7010, Screen Innovations 160" 2.35:1 Screen
Front L/R: Duntech Sovereigns, powered by 2 bridged Adcom GFA-555
Center: Revel C208 powered by Cambridge Audio Azur 851W
Dolby Bed (4): Sony Core SS-CS5, Atmos (4): Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE
Subwoofer: DIY 8' sub with 4 18" SI Drivers, powered by iNuke 6000
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post #4379 of 12395 Old 04-19-2016, 12:17 PM
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^^^^

We're way off topic at this point!

I have the JVC RS400. There have been reports that the eshift 4k is something like 90% as good as true 4K. Obviously just a fraction of the cost though! Many say the difference is just barely visible. I also have the K8500. The two have worked together since day 1 with little to no issue. Yes it was dark with black crush until Marantz 7702mk2, Samsung K8500, and JVC RS400 were all FW updated. Yes the Sammy splash menu didn't work at 4K/60 until I swapped cables. And yes the apps had this horrible lip sync issue where everything varied and moved around. All of these are gone and I've been enjoying 4K HDR since early Feb as one of the first two people in the world with player and with discs. I don't regret it and honestly can't complain. There was a one month period where I stopped using it until FW updates as it seemed pointless to watch when everything was so dark and dim.

Everyone will agree you can't go wrong with 7010 or 7702mk2. And you can't go wrong with RS400. And you can't go wrong with better LCR and with better subs! It's a slippery slope!

I'll leave it with this as someone who started building my HT 12 months ago. I finished it and then tore it apart again and upgraded everything after just a few weeks of use. Then tore it apart again down to the studs and did construction for 3 months to incorporate much of what you are trying to do now. One year after starting the project I'm happy and "done". My biggest regret is that I didn't do it right the first time. I bought a 5.1.4 Yamaha and sold it. I bought all my speakers and sold them. I bought more subs and sold them. I bought more speakers and sold them. I bought a new HDR 65" TV and sold it. I bought a new LCR and sold it. And finally said, I'm losing more money trying to save money as opposed to just buying the one thing I truly want.

So buy what you plan to keep for a long time. Even if it means other areas of your HT suffer. Don't buy intermediary steps. If that means you have to spread it out over a few years, then fine. You'll lose a lot more money doing half steps than doing 1 of the 5 things right the first time and holding off on the other items for later.

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post #4380 of 12395 Old 04-19-2016, 12:22 PM
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I appreciate the input and info, Dan.

Frustrating; it seems like I go 1 step forward, then 2 steps backward, in planning this out. Will look further into the Triads, but not sure I want to bust the budget completely at this point by going in that direction. Always an upgrade option should the JBL prove unsatisfactory.

Regarding projectors, I've been closely monitoring the 4k compatibility issues and problems. The main issue has been with the Samsung UHD Player, which has been through 2 recent firmware updates. And there is the HDMI cable situation, where getting long runs (25 to 50 feet and up) is challenging, inconsistent, and sometimes expensive. I understand the JVC is "faux" 4K, but as I said in another thread, "Faux 4K is better than No 4K."

So it may take another 6-12 months to work out some of these issues, but it seems from what I've been reading that a good result with any of the current JVC eShift projectors should be achievable. And the speculation is that it may be until 2017 or later before JVC has true 4K out.

So while there may be some early adopter frustration, I'm not yet convinced that it is premature to go with the current JVC projectors. It will still provide superior results with 1080p input, and be able to provide close to true 4K quality when there is more availability and stability in the 4K sources and cabling.

Still not sure which way I want to go with all of this, but I appreciate your input. The more I know the more informed a decision I can make. But I also have to keep in mind the "paralysis by analysis" possibility!
I always say in for an ounce, in for a pound. In the grand scheme of things, the Triad Gold center or LCR and a decent amp isn't going to kill you... and may be the stronger investment since electronics change constantly, but great speakers and amps can last you many years with countless hours of enjoyment.

Whatever route you choose to go in... I wish you all the luck.
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