The "Official" Immersive Audio Discussion thread - Atmos/DTS:X/Auro - Page 101 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3001 of 3176 Old 03-30-2016, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by showmak View Post
Yamaha is pleased to offer the following firmware update to ensure the best possible performance and latest features for your AV receiver.

So, can you apply DSU to DTS tracks and vice versa?
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post #3002 of 3176 Old 03-30-2016, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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So, can you apply DSU to DTS tracks and vice versa?
It appears so, yes.

Confirmed on both the 3050 and 5100 pre/pro. I assume it's the same for the 1050 and 2050 models.
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post #3003 of 3176 Old 03-30-2016, 04:18 PM
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So, can you apply DSU to DTS tracks and vice versa?
Yes, cross-codec upmixing has been confirmed on the Yamaha models after the DTS:X update.

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post #3004 of 3176 Old 03-30-2016, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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So I decided to go for it and download the DTS:X update.

My main drive was to find out if with the DTS:X 11ch call out clip how the overhead speakers would work. It has been documented that DTS:X will use some form of re-mapping to phantom image the front and rear heights. DTS thinks that the "heights" are at 45 degree and that "overhead" is at 60 degrees. When you have your system set at OVERHEAD the height call outs will emit from both the front left and right and the actual overhead speakers at the same time. It's trying to phantom image this sound at 45 degrees as it thinks your height speakers are really at 60 degrees. When set to HEIGHT only those height speakers will emit the height content in the call out.

Hope that makes sense.

When I play Atmos test tones for the heights, I get a reverse effect. When set to HEIGHT I get sound want to bleed front and back to better phantom image above you because the decoder thinks that the speakers have a super wide angle gap than if one were to use OVERHEAD setting.

So if you want 'discrete' height effects properly with DTS:X content, you must use the HEIGHT layout selection.

In my experience with my Yamaha 3050 and 5100 is that for Atmos you want to use OVERHEAD layout selection for the more 'discrete' sound.

Hopefully that makes sense.


Another thing that came up and brought to our attention by @multit was that some DTS:X clips were showing up in the information panel show a signal of 7.1.4 + 1 object. This appears on clips front the 2015 DTS demo disk: Divergent and Rio 2 and also on 2016 DTS demo disk: DTS:X All Around Us and Holly Miranda "All I Want Is to Be Your Girl".

My first though was "could these 1 object signals be a DIALOG stem that can be adjusted?". So I played back each clip and used the OPTION submenu on the Yamaha 5100 and found the DTS DIALOG CONTROL. I found that with pretty much all the DTS:X clips I have that this feature was locked out and could not be adjusted. Until I played the DTS All Around Us clip. There is a female 'presenter' commentating the clip. The DTS DIALOG setting was now unlocked and set to 0 with an arrow pointing right. I could adjust from 0-6 on the scale. With each notch up her voice and only her voice level was raised. This is DTS:X object-based audio dialog control at work, for real. The Holly Miranda clip had the same results. It is an immersive audio audio only track and with it a separate vocal stem that can be adjusted with the DTS DIALOG control. It worked. Just her vocals were raised. Now it doesn't like you have a full swing of level. It's just 0-6. You can't lower it, only bump it up in level. From what I could hear, it sounded like each notch was 1dB.

There you go folks. Object-based audio promised us we could take control of dialog/vocals independent of the rest of the audio mix and raise the level. If you have a Yamaha, did the update and have the 2016 DTS demo disk... I implore you try this feature for yourself.

Also, any of you that own a D&M product with DTS:X and has the 2016 DTS demo, I'd be interested if you could take advantage of this dialog control feature.



DTS:X decoding seems to be working. Tested DTS-HD MA 7.1 and could apply DSU. Also tried TrueHD 5.1 and applied Neural:X. Both worked like a charm.

Things just got interesting again.
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post #3005 of 3176 Old 03-31-2016, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
It appears so, yes.

Confirmed on both the 3050 and 5100 pre/pro. I assume it's the same for the 1050 and 2050 models.
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Yes, cross-codec upmixing has been confirmed on the Yamaha models after the DTS:X update.


That's good that it works. Not so good for D&M customers though. D&M really need to get a firmware update out that resolves that issue ASAP.
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post #3006 of 3176 Old 03-31-2016, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
There you go folks. Object-based audio promised us we could take control of dialog/vocals independent of the rest of the audio mix and raise the level. If you have a Yamaha, did the update and have the 2016 DTS demo disk... I implore you try this feature for yourself.


I don't think there was ever a question of could it be done or would it work, that's a given. The question was, would the source material include that object to allow you to adjust it. As you saw, it was limited to specific material. We will see if the mainstream movies actually utilize it. I'm with FilmMixer on this and highly doubt it. It's irrelevant for me, as I have never had a situation where I could not here the dialog clearly. However, I see lots of members complaining about it, so the option for them would be nice.

Also, someone with a D&M model needs to try the same test to see if it functions for them.
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post #3007 of 3176 Old 03-31-2016, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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No, it wasn't a question of if it could work. I'm not discussing the merits of the feature or if it will be supported. I'm just mentioning the use of it.

It's interesting because nobody has utilized this feature AFAIK. This is the first.

Yes. Someone with a D&M and DTS:X needs to try it too.
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post #3008 of 3176 Old 04-01-2016, 08:15 AM
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Which dts disc has the track with the adjustable center object? I have the 2015 demo disc and have been unable to find the 2016 to download yet. I have an avr-x6200w and would be willing to test it out if I can get my hands on that track

Edit: never mind just realized both tracks you mentioned were from the 2016 demo disc I do not have unfortunately
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post #3009 of 3176 Old 04-01-2016, 11:22 AM
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Leslie Speakers?

I'm planning on setting up an Atmos/DTS:X immersive HT. I'm planning on attaching four Leslie speakers to my ceiling to have the ultimate in immersiveness/dispersion. Any thoughts?
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post #3010 of 3176 Old 04-01-2016, 05:55 PM
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I'm planning on setting up an Atmos/DTS:X immersive HT. I'm planning on attaching four Leslie speakers to my ceiling to have the ultimate in immersiveness/dispersion. Any thoughts?


Will you be having the Leslie settings as Tremolo or Chorale? Or perhaps a mixture of speeds? The front on slow speed, the rear on fast? Lol.
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post #3011 of 3176 Old 04-02-2016, 12:09 AM
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I'm planning on setting up an Atmos/DTS:X immersive HT. I'm planning on attaching four Leslie speakers to my ceiling to have the ultimate in immersiveness/dispersion. Any thoughts?
You will need to read the object position meta data and sync the speaker spin to the object pans. This way you will have the smoothest sound of that helicopter going around you.
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post #3012 of 3176 Old 04-02-2016, 03:40 AM
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Will you be having the Leslie settings as Tremolo or Chorale? Or perhaps a mixture of speeds? The front on slow speed, the rear on fast? Lol.
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You will need to read the object position meta data and sync the speaker spin to the object pans. This way you will have the smoothest sound of that helicopter going around you.

LOL. Thanks Guys.

It was intended as an April Fools prank but you were to smart to take the bait.

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post #3013 of 3176 Old 04-09-2016, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I was just thinking of something about these new immersive formats that I really appreciate that I don't think anyone has talked about before....

For the first time (ever?) the superior new audio format is the default audio track.

With DVD, I remember many movies that had a 5.1 Dolby Digital track but that was not the default audio track. Instead, a 2ch DD track was.

With Blu-ray, there was a time when the default audio track was 5.1 Dolby Digital @ 640kbps and you had to select the 5.1 LPCM track.

Now with Dolby Atmos and DTS:X, it is the main audio track. I love that.

Was just now thinking about this and thought it was cool.
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
I was just thinking of something about these new immersive formats that I really appreciate that I don't think anyone has talked about before....

For the first time (ever?) the superior new audio format is the default audio track.

With DVD, I remember many movies that had a 5.1 Dolby Digital track but that was not the default audio track. Instead, a 2ch DD track was.

With Blu-ray, there was a time when the default audio track was 5.1 Dolby Digital @ 640kbps and you had to select the 5.1 LPCM track.

Now with Dolby Atmos and DTS:X, it is the main audio track. I love that.

Was just now thinking about this and thought it was cool.
Too bad I now still have the habit of going to setup before starting the movie. Cause there is nothing worse than watching the whole movie then realizing it could have sounded better hahah

I e the good dinosaur
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post #3015 of 3176 Old 04-10-2016, 10:44 AM
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Too bad I now still have the habit of going to setup before starting the movie. Cause there is nothing worse than watching the whole movie then realizing it could have sounded better hahah

I e the good dinosaur
I do exactly the same thing. I've had people ask me why I do it, now I can say "because dinosaur"

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post #3016 of 3176 Old 04-10-2016, 11:02 AM
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So I decided to go for it and download the DTS:X update.

My main drive was to find out if with the DTS:X 11ch call out clip how the overhead speakers would work. It has been documented that DTS:X will use some form of re-mapping to phantom image the front and rear heights. DTS thinks that the "heights" are at 45 degree and that "overhead" is at 60 degrees. When you have your system set at OVERHEAD the height call outs will emit from both the front left and right and the actual overhead speakers at the same time. It's trying to phantom image this sound at 45 degrees as it thinks your height speakers are really at 60 degrees. When set to HEIGHT only those height speakers will emit the height content in the call out.

Hope that makes sense.

When I play Atmos test tones for the heights, I get a reverse effect. When set to HEIGHT I get sound want to bleed front and back to better phantom image above you because the decoder thinks that the speakers have a super wide angle gap than if one were to use OVERHEAD setting.

So if you want 'discrete' height effects properly with DTS:X content, you must use the HEIGHT layout selection.

In my experience with my Yamaha 3050 and 5100 is that for Atmos you want to use OVERHEAD layout selection for the more 'discrete' sound.

Hopefully that makes sense.

So I'm a little bit confused by now. I own the 7702mkII and wonder if it's possible to get a discrete atmos and dts:x with having TF/TR installed following the dolby specs on the ceiling but configured as FH/RH?! As far as I understood and tested if configrued as FH/RH I get discrete dts:x but no discrete atmos (unfortunately I own no track totest). And on the other side configured as TF/TR I get discrete atmos without phantoming?

Did I get that right?

Thanks in advance.

Olli
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post #3017 of 3176 Old 04-11-2016, 09:24 AM
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I do exactly the same thing. I've had people ask me why I do it, now I can say "because dinosaur"
Haha - yeah, me too. What's even funnier is I have all my kids trained to do it as well - drives my wife crazy when my 9-year-old hits, Setup -> Audio before playing the movie. Also need to make sure the TV is is Movie mode of course.

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post #3018 of 3176 Old 04-11-2016, 11:19 AM
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So I'm a little bit confused by now. I own the 7702mkII and wonder if it's possible to get a discrete atmos and dts:x with having TF/TR installed following the dolby specs on the ceiling but configured as FH/RH?! As far as I understood and tested if configrued as FH/RH I get discrete dts:x but no discrete atmos (unfortunately I own no track totest). And on the other side configured as TF/TR I get discrete atmos without phantoming?

Did I get that right?

Thanks in advance.

Olli
No, it's not right. It really doesn't matter for Atmos because the height effects are 100% object based. It's DTS:X that is more of potential issue, although they say it's "speaker layout agnostic" the initial mixes have used channels (not objects) for height effects but they are coded discretely for the FH+RH positions, which is why you get some "bleed" as it tries to phantom image them for other layouts (e.g. TF+TR). So if you want to be "safe" just configure it for FH+RH and both will work properly.

Also be aware that these test discs are NOT 100% indicative of how real program content will sound. A lot of people freak out when the test disc doesn't behave exactly how they are expecting.

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post #3019 of 3176 Old 04-11-2016, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
I was just thinking of something about these new immersive formats that I really appreciate that I don't think anyone has talked about before....

For the first time (ever?) the superior new audio format is the default audio track.[...]

Now with Dolby Atmos and DTS:X, it is the main audio track. I love that.

Was just now thinking about this and thought it was cool.
If you watch Game of Thrones, you have to go to setup and choose Atmos...DINOSAURS RULE!!!
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post #3020 of 3176 Old 04-11-2016, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Hahah!

*ahem*

I mean, that's unfortunate.
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post #3021 of 3176 Old 04-11-2016, 08:37 PM
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The OPPO has an audio track button for just such an emergency


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post #3022 of 3176 Old 04-12-2016, 04:29 AM
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The OPPO has an audio track button for just such an emergency


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Sony players do, too.

But some discs have umpteen soundtracks dubbed in different languages, making it a pain to find the one you really want.

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post #3023 of 3176 Old 04-12-2016, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
No, it's not right. It really doesn't matter for Atmos because the height effects are 100% object based. It's DTS:X that is more of potential issue, although they say it's "speaker layout agnostic" the initial mixes have used channels (not objects) for height effects but they are coded discretely for the FH+RH positions, which is why you get some "bleed" as it tries to phantom image them for other layouts (e.g. TF+TR). So if you want to be "safe" just configure it for FH+RH and both will work properly.

Also be aware that these test discs are NOT 100% indicative of how real program content will sound. A lot of people freak out when the test disc doesn't behave exactly how they are expecting.

Okay thank you for your Feedback. So nothing wrong with using TF+TR layout configured as FH+RH for both atmos and x.


Olli
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post #3024 of 3176 Old 04-12-2016, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
No, it's not right. It really doesn't matter for Atmos because the height effects are 100% object based. It's DTS:X that is more of potential issue, although they say it's "speaker layout agnostic" the initial mixes have used channels (not objects) for height effects but they are coded discretely for the FH+RH positions, which is why you get some "bleed" as it tries to phantom image them for other layouts (e.g. TF+TR). So if you want to be "safe" just configure it for FH+RH and both will work properly.

Also be aware that these test discs are NOT 100% indicative of how real program content will sound. A lot of people freak out when the test disc doesn't behave exactly how they are expecting.


In addition to distribution on BD, DTS:X is designed also to accommodate the requirements for broadcast|streaming. Consequently, the use of channels and objects in the structure of a specific DTS:X soundtrack probably has more in common with how the Dolby AC-4 encode of that program might appear, rather than with its equivalent Dolby Atmos instance.

It seems likely that "next year" the Dolby decoder in AVRs will decode both Atmos and AC-4 bitsream content. Note that the AC-4 codec spec makes mention of "top channel" content|positions, but there seems to be only minimal support for explicit discrete height speaker content, and content delivery to height speakers otherwise may be left up to the repositioning capabilities of the AC-4 rendering engine in the AVR . . . a function which also appears critical to the rendering capability of the DTS:X decoder.



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post #3025 of 3176 Old 04-13-2016, 09:10 AM
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Here, I made a quick diagram to try and illustrate the difference between being on the circumference of a 10ft diameter (5ft radius) circle (DTS:X) versus the corners of a 10ft deep rectangle.



I think the important thing though is to use this as a GENERAL guideline, and not go crazy trying to get things down to the exact degree. Just get in the ballpark -- a pair of overhead speakers in front, and another pair in the rear -- and you will have front to back and side to side panning of stuff overhead. You're not going to notice if things are off by 5-10 degrees here or there. It's not like the soundtrack will suddenly sound like garbage because your high ceilings make it difficult to achieve a 45 degree azimuth for the overheads.
I'm a bit confused by your diagram, as the box & circle would appear to be in the primary speaker bed as they relate to the location of the couch/MLP (round red dot). Shouldn't your diagram require the couch to be seen "end on" in order to account for ceiling height, rather than seeing the couch from "overhead" which places the 10' ranges at ear level????
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post #3026 of 3176 Old 04-17-2016, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by HT-Eman View Post
Here are some of my dolby atmos and dts:x movies that I use with Kodi.

https://youtu.be/wG4XVJadUJc
Hi,

Your kodi custom skin looks cool. How did you install the kodi with custom program? Is it HTPC or Niv Sheild??

Could you please post link how to get kodi like yours.
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post #3027 of 3176 Old 04-17-2016, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Sony players do, too.

But some discs have umpteen soundtracks dubbed in different languages, making it a pain to find the one you really want.
Yep, my Sony player has the audio button which I also use but yes sometimes there are multiple tracks and the button is one of many little ones (even though Sony has always been very good with using tactile bumps on the important buttons) so its not always easy to find in the dark. Old habits......

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post #3028 of 3176 Old 04-17-2016, 11:35 PM
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Can anyone confirm what front panel and info panel should state on a Yamaha X050 (eg. 3050) when playing DTS:X content? I'm using the DTS 2015 Demo Disc which was supposedly the first one with DTS:X encodings, and I'm seeing basically "DTS HD Master" everywhere. In no location anywhere related to the receiver do I see anything that identifies the source as DTS:X. The demo tracks have only one track, so I don't think it is related to picking the wrong audio track. Does the 3050 normally identify DTS:X as DTS HD Master?

Or is this whole audio format basically just a way to get me to buy and watch Ex Machina again as that seems to be effectively the only thing that uses it right now? What is the simplest way to prove it's working?
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post #3029 of 3176 Old 04-18-2016, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cyphers72 View Post
Can anyone confirm what front panel and info panel should state on a Yamaha X050 (eg. 3050) when playing DTS:X content? I'm using the DTS 2015 Demo Disc which was supposedly the first one with DTS:X encodings, and I'm seeing basically "DTS HD Master" everywhere. In no location anywhere related to the receiver do I see anything that identifies the source as DTS:X. The demo tracks have only one track, so I don't think it is related to picking the wrong audio track. Does the 3050 normally identify DTS:X as DTS HD Master?



Or is this whole audio format basically just a way to get me to buy and watch Ex Machina again as that seems to be effectively the only thing that uses it right now? What is the simplest way to prove it's working?

You should have at least two height speakers in order to trigger the DTS:X.

Here some screenshots while playing demos on 2015 DTS Demo Disc.






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post #3030 of 3176 Old 04-18-2016, 06:26 AM
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Having 6 speakers installed today to complete my Atmos/DTS:X (7.2.4) setup. I have the Marantz sr7010 and for speaker assignments I want top front/back L/R correct? I know this will work for Atmos but want to make sure this will also work for DTS:X?
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